In 2014, war has become so routine that it is at the core of the global economy. A rapidly aging Solid Snake picks up his gun and embarks upon his final mission in this epic tale of tactical espionage action -- the conclusion to the Solid Snake saga.
@demoskinos: I go back and forth on which one the worst of the main series is. It's definitely 4 or 2 though.
I can understand people say that it was 4 because that game didn't make a significant gameplay leap in terms of evolving the genre. But man.. when you went from MGS to MGS2, that was jawdropping. You could shoot the cloth to blind Olga, you could shoot out the radios.. I remember being completely blown away by how much they evolved the core gameplay of that fairly simple top down original. There were parts of that game that I didn't enjoy like everyone else I'm sure, but the impact and sheer scope of it are undeniable.
Yeah, there's a verticality and environmental experimentation with 2 which maybe doesn't come across in the follow-ups. Peace Walker is the worst of the canonical ones that I've played. I'd recommend they do a bonus stream where they watch the cutscenes in that just to witness the worst story Kojima has ever written.
@humanity: Yeah the Tanker part of MGS2 is great. The rest... not so much. And that's not me hating on Raiden either. I only really started to dislike Raiden in MGS4.
MGS2 was my first Metal Gear and it is totally my least favorite. I mean it is hilarious and all, but the game itself is pretty mundane most of the time. Though I'll always love Solidus telling me how he is going to let me go out in style. MGS4's ending is pretty awful but the gameplay itself was so fun. I really enjoyed octocamo, customizing guns, and weird shit like solar gun and tanegashima.
I'm almost finished with MGS4 now and it's taken me longer to get through than any of the other mainline MGS games. Part of that's because I played the others during my vacation and didn't get to 4 until vacation was up, another part because I started working with Android development in my spare/usually video game time and the last part because I'm not enjoying it quite as much as I did the others. Especially compared to 3 which is easily the strongest of them.
MGS4 started out really strong, but then had a really weak middle bit that took me forever to get through because I just didn't feel like playing it, but then it got strong again in chapter 4 and now I'm almost done the final chapter (I think so anyway. I beat the last of the weirdo boss ladies. This is MGS; however, I'm sure there is at least one more boss.) and it's completely gone off the deep end and is 90% cut scene and 10% game play that both range from "Why isn't there more of this?!??" to "Why won't this end?!??" in terms of enjoyment. It's probably going to take me another month to finish off the last few hours because I've heard of this infamous, 2 hours of cut scene ending and I have to find the time to sit down and "play" through it all at once.
MGS4 stands out to me as by far the weirdest of the series. Close to the end, the plot is really going places, and seems to have dropped any pretense at being coherent. The uniformly young and beautiful woman bosses who all became child soldiers after horrible experiences as youth and like to do creepy, silent walks at you after you beat their power armor forms so you can just walk backwards and pump them full of lead or tranq until they drop or whatever... I just don't even know what the hell is going on anymore. I fully expect the big reveal to be that everything's just a dream, or that Snake really died on Shadow Moses and nothing since MGS1 has actually happened. Kojima has clearly lost his mind by this point in his career. I can't imagine where later games are going to go.
I can't imagine where later games are going to go.
They'll be going in pachinko machines, from the looks of things.
Sadly, probably yes. At least Kojima is free to pursue something else now. Him and Swery should get together and make the most uniquely-Japanese-view-of-the-rest-of-the-world game ever.
I can't imagine where later games are going to go.
They'll be going in pachinko machines, from the looks of things.
Sadly, probably yes. At least Kojima is free to pursue something else now. Him and Swery should get together and make the most uniquely-Japanese-view-of-the-rest-of-the-world game ever.
Ya'll crazy. MGS 2 is best MGS. It's close between 2 and 3 for me, but I had more fun with 2. The music, the story, the and the gameplay were all great (though the gameplay was better in 3). 2 took everything I loved about 1, turned it up to 11 and made it play/look better.
I mean... any day now, right? E3 is out of the way.
I think it's safe to say we'll get it sometime in July, when everything's back in order and Drew and Jason are finished reorganizing things. I have no doubt that Dan is bugging Drew about it on a near-daily basis.
You know its just struck me that this is all part of Dans elaborate scheme to play all of the main Metal Gear games before 5 comes out and he merely devised a way to do it whilst at work rather than his own time at home.
1. "It's as if someone at Kojima Productions went "Well people sure disliked this character, what can we do to make him seem badass? Oh I know, let's ask an 11-year-old boy!""
I mean, welcome to Metal Gear.
2. "He's like an actor going off-script and chewing the scenery as much as he can before being escorted off the stage by security."
Hi, Hassun! It's your old friend, Metal Gear!
3. "And the biggest mistake of all? They did it at the cost of making everyone else (and especially the player/Snake) look bad by comparison."
Snake does a lot of awesome shit in cutscenes that the "player (you)" don't actually do as well. It's hard for me to wrap my head around this point; are you saying that no one should be more heroic than the protagonist of a story? If so, I simply disagree.
I disliked the portrayal of Raiden in MGS4 as well, but because I feel like his motivations were conveyed in a convoluted way that made him hard to make sense of. It very much felt like the Kojima cobbled Raiden's story together along the way of making the game as opposed to knowing the destination from the beginning... it's not an uncommon feeling I get with MG games, but it seems most apparent with Raiden in MGS4.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I disagree with the particular reasons you were put off by Raiden's character in MGS4, but there is some poor storytelling going on there. All that aside, Raiden is pretty fucking badass.
I can't imagine where later games are going to go.
They'll be going in pachinko machines, from the looks of things.
Sadly, probably yes. At least Kojima is free to pursue something else now. Him and Swery should get together and make the most uniquely-Japanese-view-of-the-rest-of-the-world game ever.
Gigantic budget plus meager sales. SUREFIREHIT!
You have NO IDEA how much I and about a dozen other people would like to play that game.
MGS4 is a weird game. I love it, but only because I love and have played the rest of the games (I did not love MGS4 the first time I played it, having only seen someone else play MGS1 prior). It's my favourite overall, gameplay and story-wise, but when I say "MGS4 is my favourite" I feel more like I'm just saying "I love all of MGS".
Also, I get that everything in the prologue was just added later, and it sure isn't the most interesting thing to watch but goddamn if it isn't the most Metal Gear-y way to put a cap on the franchise: a long-ass info dump. Also, I felt like that "new" ending linked back to MGS1's ending thematically with the whole Snake denying death and getting a shot at a peaceful life in both game's endings, only MGS4 gave him that for real. Plus he probably died like a week later anyway.
Plus, watching Big Boss go out chomping on a cigar over his mentor's grave seems like exactly how Dan would want that game to end.
Explaining things away with "it's Metal Gear!" is completely meaningless.
Snake does a lot of awesome shit in cutscenes that the "player (you)" don't actually do as well. It's hard for me to wrap my head around this point; are you saying that no one should be more heroic than the protagonist of a story? If so, I simply disagree.
Whether he does it in a cutscene or not, it's still Snake. And the player controls Snake. As for saying nobody should be more heroic than the protagonist: That is not what I am saying at all.
All that aside, Raiden is pretty fucking badass.
I think there is absolutely nothing badass about Raiden. And that's perfectly OK.
@humanity: word. MGS2 doesn't hold up very well, but it was mindblowing at the time. Graphics aside, MGS4 was never good. Never.
The FF7 of that generation, if you think about it -- lots of wowee zowee cutscenes and nothing else worthwhile. Even the "improvements" in control just nullified any stealth elements because the AI did not receive an equivalent upgrade.
MGSV/GZ at least has less brain dead enemies to even the playing field a bit. My concerns with that game are more with the way the story seems to be going.
That said, I really really really want to see Drew experience the goddamn nightmare of 4.
I think it is genuinely awesome that people can defend and make cases for any of the 4 Metal Gear Solid games being the best and have it accepted. At least that is the impression I get.
They haven't said anything yet. The assumption that it's coming soon is basically based on the fact that Dan wanted to get it done before the release of MGSV - and they'd have to start soon to achieve that. But it's also at Drew's discretion, and he may opt not to keep to that deadline.
@humanity: word. MGS2 doesn't hold up very well, but it was mindblowing at the time. Graphics aside, MGS4 was never good. Never.
The FF7 of that generation, if you think about it -- lots of wowee zowee cutscenes and nothing else worthwhile. Even the "improvements" in control just nullified any stealth elements because the AI did not receive an equivalent upgrade.
MGSV/GZ at least has less brain dead enemies to even the playing field a bit. My concerns with that game are more with the way the story seems to be going.
That said, I really really really want to see Drew experience the goddamn nightmare of 4.
I'd say MGS4 was really cool on the first playthrough, maybe until Act 5 when things needed to wrap together so rapidly that it becomes a shit show of cutscenes and constant bosses. Though on subsequent playthroughs it shows its flaws throughout (especially the bosses, among others things... are really uneven) - though the gameplay variety is pretty fantastic - but will easily be surpasses by 5 anyway. But I suppose MGS4 will always have octocamo all to itself, which is too bad because goddamn it was cool.
I'll bet it starts next week or so because the release schedule for the rest of the summer is a bit.....eh.
Thinking about it, I want @danryckert to finish the Witcher 3 first. Cos' he'll be playing MGS4 alongside with drew and I really want someone on this site to finish it.
You know its just struck me that this is all part of Dans elaborate scheme to play all of the main Metal Gear games before 5 comes out and he merely devised a way to do it whilst at work rather than his own time at home.
Pretty sure he's been playing them all alongside Drew at home anyway.
@larrydavis: I don't think FFVII is a good comparison for MGS4 because FFVII was/is a truly great game. MGS4 is the Metal Gear Solid for people who don't actually like to play MGS at all and just want to see how crazy Kojima's storytelling can get (e.g. Jeff Gerstmann).
Hate to bang on that drum again, and I apoligise if this has been answered a bajillion times earlier in this thread (I'm sorry but I'm too scared to read it because of spoilers) but does anyone remember an estimated time before MGS4 ?
I thought I might of remembered them saying they would do it before September (MGS5), I wonder if it would be fair to expect it possibly by August ?
Hate to bang on that drum again, and I apoligise if this has been answered a bajillion times earlier in this thread (I'm sorry but I'm too scared to read it because of spoilers) but does anyone remember an estimated time before MGS4 ?
I thought I might of remembered them saying they would do it before September (MGS5), I wonder if it would be fair to expect it possibly by August ?
All I remember is Dan saying they wanted to get MGS4 done by the end of the year and Drew making noncommittal noises.
I hope they start before 5 is out, I for some reason always had the impression it was gonna start after E3 but maybe Drew is going to some exotic country/land again?
"Explaining things away with "it's Metal Gear!" is completely meaningless."
-I don't feel like it's meaningless in the context of this discussion, it IS Metal Gear we're talking about after all, and Metal Gear is full of nonsense.
"Whether he does it in a cutscene or not, it's still Snake. And the player controls Snake. As for saying nobody should be more heroic than the protagonist: That is not what I am saying at all."
-Then what are you saying? With this statement you're just being a random internet commenter saying "nuh uh!" without backing up or elaborating on your point.
"I think there is absolutely nothing badass about Raiden. And that's perfectly OK."
-I guess Raiden fighting through his childhood issues, trying to make a normal relationship work in the most extreme of circumstances, fighting a horde of geckos, killing Solidus, halting a warship single-handedly, and defeating Vamp twice isn't badass then.
You tend to say a lot of things as if they are fact without explaining why and leave no room for discussion. I happen to want to talk about some of the things you say because some merit. If you want to back up the things you say then post them. If not, then what's the point?
@kasaioni: That is a very good point. There are many nuances to how the nanos affected different people in 4, just as the context of the metal gear story as a whole affected different characters in different ways. I'm not claiming it's a good thing, just saying that it is a thing and the craziness is not likely to subside.
Might be a bit, apparently Drew's going somewhere. Wish someone would say if we can expect it before or after The Phantom Pain comes out, at least. I'm sure there are some people waiting to play that game until they can watch MGS4 on here.
@bwheeeler: im not a master outdoorsman, but that looks like he is just going backpacking for a weekend ie hiking. Hopefully he doesnt get eaten by wild cougars (damn you RDR! im still mentally scarred).
With Drew's long hair and growing out the beard, he needs to pack on like 25 pounds of muscle and just start carrying an axe and eating pancakes all the time. Lumberjack drew! lumberdrew?
I finished MGS4 minutes ago. Finished watching the ending that is. I finished playing the game hours ago. There is not enough hyperbole in the world to describe the depths of Kojima's madness. I can only imagine Phantom Pain will be 24 hours of the most melodramatic cut scene ever put the medium with about an hour of horrifically drawn out fist fight between Big Boss and Zero. There's really not much else he could do at this point. I imagine Snake will have an existential angst meter in this one.
@bwheeeler:He's going into the woods this weekend. Camping trip.
@phoenixlol: I feel like I have explained all my points quite clearly already in that blog post. There isn't really much to add.
I don't feel like it's meaningless in the context of this discussion, it IS Metal Gear we're talking about after all, and Metal Gear is full of nonsense.
Statements like that are nearly always meaningless. It's basically saying "here are a lot of silly things in MGS so any sort of criticism or remark can just be waved away with saying "It's MGS!" or "It's Kojima!". That shit doesn't fly.
Then what are you saying? With this statement you're just being a random internet commenter saying "nuh uh!" without backing up or elaborating on your point.
You asked me if I meant that nobody should be more heroic than the protagonist and I replied "no". That's a complete answer. What is there to elaborate on? Being heroic has absolutely nothing to do with it.
If the blog post was not clear enough for you I will try to explain it like this: Imagine watching a film or playing a game. It has a rich story, people struggle, there is a big objective at the end. It's a real nail biter, everything depends on something being accomplished at the end.
... and then someone comes in, fixes everything immediately and boom it's over. This is profoundly unsatisfying. It is bad storytelling.
An example of that in film is one of the Lord of the Rings films (I say films because I'm not sure how it happens in the books). There is this big battle at the end, it's really tense, a lot is on the line and then this super powerful army of ghosts or whatever comes in and just wipes out the entire enemy force. That's unbelievably dumb and unsatisfying and it retroactively makes earlier achievements and sacrifices by others pretty much meaningless.
Raiden in MGS4 is basically that ghost army. He can do everything better than you to the point where Snake (and the player) would ask "Why the hell isn't he doing all this shit while my weak old dying ass relaxes on the plane?". This very fact even gets addressed near the end:
Snake is ambushed by some troops right before the microwave tunnel of doom. Raiden shows up out of the blue, casts lightning for some reason, takes everyone out and basically tells Snake that he could go through the microwave tunnel quite easily and there is no real reason for you to suffer through it at all. He literally points out that you are completely useless and that he could do your mission better than you ever could.
This happens in other stuff too. Take superhero teams in comic books for example. Usually there is one or even more than one being on the team who makes multiple if not all other members of the team completely superfluous.
And finally, no, none of those things are even remotely awesome. You need to understand that doing big things does not equal being awesome. Imagine playing MGS and Superman suddenly bursting into the Shadow Moses hangar, grabbing Metal Gear Rex by the leg and throwing it into the sun. Or Doctor Manhattan snapping his fingers and just annihilating all the nanomachines in the world instantly. The power difference is so massive that, relative to the abilities of Superman or Doctor Manhatan, what they just did there is pretty minor.
What Gray Fox does at the end of MGS is awesome (and heroic to boot!). When Raiden comes in and breakdances gekkos or single-handedly stops the biggest submarine in existence there is nothing awesome about it. After all, Raiden can do anything. He is that ghost army, he is Superman, he is Doctor Manhattan, he is Q from Star Trek, he is that 11-year-old boy's power fantasy.
So to summarise. Things are not awesome by themselves in a vacuum. Something being awesome is always relative to something else. There is nothing awesome about Raiden in MGS4. In fact, everything he does in MGS4 pales in comparison with anything he did in MGS2. This is also why I think MGRR does not fit into the Metal Gear series at all.
And if that is still too unclear I guess I can try to use an image to explain it:
Might be a bit, apparently Drew's going somewhere. Wish someone would say if we can expect it before or after The Phantom Pain comes out, at least. I'm sure there are some people waiting to play that game until they can watch MGS4 on here.I
I have to imagine that it will be before TPP comes out - that way Drew can go straight into that (maybe have him and Dan do the QL, I can't picture TPP playthrough being part of the feature) and then they can weigh in on GOTY discussions
Just finished watching Metal Gear Scanlon 3 and am playing through the series again myself and I thought, "Screw it, why don't YOU make the waiting room this time?" (also lock in the title you want now!)
I used to hate the "watitng" misspelling. Not anymore. You fucked up.
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