acharlie1377

It might have been less bad, but you're still left with the fact that some people would have sent genuine rape and death threats just for a developer changing storefronts. Saying the developer should have seen this coming, and you feel no sympathy for them, is a strange tack, and one weirdly distanced from the humanity of the people involved. Just because you disagree with how they handled things doesn't mean they're suddenly deserving of what they received; if you had made the points you're making now on Twitter, and you received comments threatening you and your family, I don't think anyone here would feel like you "got what was coming to you."

You're still responding to a statement of "this thing is bad" with "but something else is also bad!", and it doesn't make sense in the current context. This thread is not a debate about who is in the right, it's about one party that was definitely in the wrong, which is the people who sent death and rape threats. The developer's behavior doesn't make those people any better for doing so, and even partially absolving these people because you think the developers are dickheads is a weirdly disconnected way to treat other human beings. This isn't some faceless corporation that can just bear or hide from the brunt of consumer anger, it's two people trying to make a game, and these death threats are very real and very terrifying to them.

I wouldn't agree with that point either, though. First, I'm not sure what you mean by "overly" cute; sure, Super Mario Odyssey is a cute game, but I don't think there's anything in there that feels gratuitous or unnecessary. The different areas all feel very consistent, and the character designs are simple and aesthetically pleasing in a way that can appeal to multiple demographics. Same with something like Breath of the Wild; the graphics are definitely simpler than a Call of Duty, but that doesn't make them any less impressive or gorgeous, and I wouldn't call anything about the game overly cute.

Second, saying 'cute aesthetics plus simple mechanics/narrative equals for kids" discounts a huge number of games that I doubt anyone would say is "for kids." Minecraft has a very simple and cute aesthetic, and the mechanics are simpler than just about every AAA game, but I wouldn't say it's a childish or child-targeted game. Same with Stardew Valley, Celeste, For the King, Armello, Threes, Holedown, Crash Bandicoot, Hollow Knight, or any of the Steamworld games. All the games I mentioned have a cute to extremely cute aesthetic, and all of them have simple mechanics, simple stories, or both, but I don't think any of them would be mentioned as games that are "only for kids". Nintendo makes games that can be enjoyed by kids, but that doesn't mean they make games that are meant to be played exclusively by kids.

@omgfather@cikame@casepb I don't think anyone would make the case that the developers handled things perfectly. Even if their messaging was done with the best of intentions, it's easy to look at the environment surrounding the Epic Game Store and know that they should have maybe been a little more sympathetic. Others have already mentioned that none of that excuses the level of vitriol directed at these people, so I won't go into that. However, I will argue that how the developers presented this information, and the hatred directed at them because of the announcement, are almost entirely unrelated.

If the devs had been nicer about the move to the Epic Game Store, do you think people would have avoided sending death threats? If those gamers hadn't been told to "not get mad," do you think they would have abstained from saying the dev's loved ones should be raped or killed? I don't think these people reached this level of hate because of some mild dickishness by a team of two developers; they would have reached this level of hate regardless of the messaging, because some people (especially on the internet) are staggeringly terrible and entitled people. These people would have the same response regardless of how the move was presented.

Obviously, if you want to criticize how the team dealt with this move, that's fair; these kinds of things have been mishandled ever since the Epic store launched, and it's not something that should just be ignored. That said, it's not relevant to this conversation. The OP is saying that something is bad and indefensible, and you're responding by saying that something else is also bad. You're not necessarily saying anything wrong, and you're not necessarily defending these people, but this is definitely the wrong context for what you're saying. It's like hearing news that a man beat his wife, and then mentioning that the wife never took out the trash.

@volemaulder: I will not try to defend BotW's story, because the best word I could use to describe it is "unobtrusive." It's not even a bad story, it's just the bare minimum amount of story to consider having a plot. In the sense of narrative, I will admit that Horizon: Zero Dawn is the far more mature and developed game. I don't think that makes BotW "HZD for kids," though, I just think it makes it a game you don't go to for story. I would make it a comparison between something like Minecraft and Dragon Quest Builders; I won't say either is a better game than the other, but no one's going to say that Minecraft has a better story, because it has no story.

I'm in a weird situation now because my point with BotW and HZD was that BotW can absolutely be enjoyed by adults even with its simplicity, because its systems interact in complex, interesting, and organic ways; that said, my point was to counter the OP's post that Nintendo games are "childish" and not enjoyable by "mature discerning gamers," which I think is a wildly dismissive way to describe games that can appeal to everyone. However, the OP didn't compare these two games, you did, and your point was simply that Nintendo games are more simplistic and childish from a narrative standpoint, which is a point I wouldn't argue against (except maybe in the case of something like Majora's Mask). So I'm disagreeing with you about a point you never made, using an argument that won't work against the person who actually said it, while the whole time I actually agree with the point you were making. That's what I get for not examining these posts more closely, I guess. =P

@heidegger: Well, I'm dumb! I read a post you were quoting and mistakenly thought it was you. The idea still holds, though; something being simple doesn't make it childish.

Not to heap more criticism on the OP, but I'm blown away that this is a serious take being leveled at Nintendo, for a variety of reasons. Simple, animated graphics don't make something childish, and dismissing an entire company because their games are "easy" and "cute" is something a cartoon villain would do. It doesn't seem like I'm going to be the one to change your mind, but you're very clearly equating your distaste for these games with an actual lack of quality in them, all because their stories aren't nuanced and complex. Obviously, most Nintendo games are built so that children can enjoy them, but one of the core tenets of these games is to provide an experience that can appeal to all ages. A Mario game's quality isn't predicated on fast-twitch headshots or intense strategy prowess, it's based on the game's ability to instill joy in the player. If something like Mario Odyssey didn't put a single smile on your face, then that's fine; it doesn't mean you're a joyless heathen without a soul. That said, it also doesn't mean the game is only for children, and that any "discerning adult" should pass it by. Different people have different tastes, and just because you don't like Nintendo games doesn't mean they're too childish for intelligent adults.

You compared BotW and Horizon: Zero Dawn in an earlier post, and described your experience with BotW as "it's like Horizon, but for kids." And I can see where your point comes from; BotW's story is incredibly simplistic, the activities you can do across the map are just glorified puzzle rooms, and the combat boils down to button-mashing and dodging. That said, if you're defining BotW by those parts of the game, you're missing the point. The game is all about the world; it's about the feeling of climbing a mountain, not to get to the side quest at the top, but to see what the view is like up there, and to feel the satisfaction of looking back and thinking "I was just there, and now I'm here." It's about trudging through a seemingly endless desert, and suddenly happening upon a ruined statue that you never would have known is there. It's about playing with the very simple systems of weather and electricity and fire and weather, and finding complex interactions that the developers didn't consider. I love Horizon: Zero Dawn, but the systems in that game aren't meant to be experimented with and broken, they're meant to be used in ways the developers designed them to be used in; the world in that game isn't meant to be explored, it's meant to be completed; that tall mountain you're climbing isn't an achievement, it's a path to the next quest objective. Breath of the Wild is organic and alive in a way that other AAA games don't even try to be, and treating it as "childish" because the art is very simplified is a strangely narrow-minded argument.

So DC Universe Online launches today for the Switch, and I was wondering if anyone here has played the game recently on other platforms, and if they think it's worth getting into. I remember the game coming out, but I never heard about it ever again until I saw it was coming to the Switch, at which point I was immediately intrigued. The fact that it's been around for a while is generally a good sign, but it could also mean the game is too impenetrable for new players, and the 24(!) GB size on Switch is pretty chunky. What are your guys' thoughts on the game?

What kinds of errors are you talking about? I last played that game like 7 years ago when it first came out, so I'm a little fuzzy on the details. How bad did they mess up the history?

I don't think there's ever been a game like King of Dragon Pass, and I doubt there ever will be again. You play as a leader of a tribe in the fictional world of Glorantha, but whatever you're picturing in your head is not how the game is played. It's a weird mix of economy management and multiple-choice questions, where every decision you make echoes through the entire game, and you never feel like you're pushed down any one "right" path. Add to that this weird system where you have to actually read through the in-game myths and legends in order to correctly perform miracles, and it results in one of the most engrossing experiences I've ever played, despite being essentially a series of images and dialog boxes.

It's not a game for everyone, but if I could force a game into someone's hands and tell them "this is what video games can be," King of Dragon's Pass would be it.