Giant Bombcast 551: Digital Didgeridudes

I wonder if this is like a psychological thing with the map in Hollow Knight. Dark Souls gives 0 map information, so people can prepare themselves from the getgo to play a game not be able to check a map.

Starting with Hollow Knight the game gives you the expectation of there being a map , but once you get it, players learn that it doesn't give you all the information it could, except if you're willing to spend money on it and willing to trade in some power (a charm) to see your exact location.

When it doesn't serve up all the information you can expect from a map, some people see it as a bad map mechanic and get unhappy, when they might've been fine if it was clear that there was never going to be a map in the game. The art of the game being somewhat dark & murky might amplify the feeling of uneasiness & being lost. In Dark Souls you at least get to check the surroundings of the world with a 360 camera. In a 2d game, you only see what's immediatly to your left & right.

It's probably sacrilege to say but I really wish Destiny raids were not as complicated and puzzle focused as they are. I want more raids like Vault of Glass, Crota, and Wrath of the Machine where they're just harder strikes with some puzzles.

@fawkes: came here to say the same. Thanks!

Yep, exploration and discovery is a major reason why I loved the game so much. It's very rare that a modern game like this actually doesn't hold your hand 100% of the time. Although still probably 80% of the time as I found most of the area maps quite quickly. But that 20% - so good. It confounds me that some people just can't handle that.

And you are totally correct that losing currency doesn't really matter since you can always get more. Plus there is a way to recover your ghost and geo by summoning it to safe place near the town above. Useful if you died in a difficult or far away spot and were carrying a lot of currency and wish to easily get it back. All you need is a rancid egg. I think I used just one in my 30+ hours of playtime, but they're there if someone is struggling with that aspect like Ben.

Thanks for filing this under the various game titles. Very helpful.

I think some people fundamentally dislike game mechanics that could be perceived as an "inconvenience".

I could be wrong, but I suspect the people that get stressed out by not having a map in Hollow Knight for about the first 15 minutes of each new area (*gasp*) might have a lot of crossover with the people that get stressed out by Majora's Mask having a "time limit" that only inconveniences you if you act like a real genius and start a dungeon/questline on the 3rd and final day. I think some people see mechanics like that and immediately envision "oh boy, I bet this is going to waste a bunch of my time because I'm going to get lost without a map/lose a bunch of progress if I don't finish something by the end of a 3-day cycle", when in reality if you just don't worry about the mechanic and play the game, the mechanic doesn't actually ruin the experience the way your gut reaction anticipates that it will.

But you're right, I think genre expectations of Metroidvanias make everybody lose their minds over the Hollow Knight map mechanic. Maybe people just really hate paying for maps, because everybody also roasts Wind Waker for having all of those sea charts you have to pay money to decode near the end. Paying to decode sea charts is not a thrilling task to close out the game with, but also it's not the affront to the player's time that game critics make it out to be.

@bradMs. Splosion Man is still available on Steam.

Here's my Nintendo voice chat theory;

The shit bags that ruin online chat go to platforms with voice chat in order to intentionally be shitty. They get off on it, even if it's being done in some kind of unconscious Freudian way.

They couldn't be jerks on Nintendo so they didn't get Switches. Probably while making some pithy inflammatory comments, about Nintendo not having voice chat, on reddit/twitter/YouTube about it.

So now if Nintendo indeed allows open voice chat across the board, I say give it a couple years. They'll come. It'll be as bad as anywhere else soon enough.

If Brad thinks Timespinner is a slavish Symphony of the Night clone, he should really check out Chasm since it went all in on replicating that game with a little less of the BS, though I think the combat and platforming are not good until you get a weapon you like and you get the double jump upgrade near the end.

New York: where giant dreams die a tiny death.

@dachopper: I think everyone who loves the game knows it has some glaring faults. I got 100 hours of fun out of a $15 indie game so I'm okay with a few faults.

Almost everything that was said about Valkyria Chronicles 4 was wrong, which is sad because I assume they don't want to give false impressions of games but that's whats happening.

In order of appearance:

Jan said he thinks there's 5 units, the new one being grenadier. He's sorta right, there are 7 (at least 8 if you wanna split up the vehicles into their own type) unit types with the new one being grenadier.

Jan says the CP are used for moving units and also taking shots at enemy units, but both of those things are accomplished while moving a unit around which only takes 1 point.

The guys decide that VC3 was on the vita and that only one VC game was handheld but both 2 and 3 were PSP exclusive.

Jan says that you have to take into account distance (kind of true, but it's just the farther away you are the less accurate you are) and elevation (not true at all) while shooting. He also states that there is bullet drop when there isn't. When aiming a gun there's the crosshair, and a circle around it that shows where your bullets could go. There are dice rolls behind the scenes and accuracy stats that can go up or down depending on different factors and those will determine how many of your bullets end up in random spots in the circle and how many are dead on the crosshair. Each weapon type has a different sized circle.

Ben asks if there's permadeath and Jan says no, but there is. If a character goes down and you don't send another unit over there to rescue them within a few turns they die and are gone for good.

Also, as an aside, they made VC4 a lot like the first because 2, 3, and revolution were all bad and people just wanted a new VC game like the first one instead of stripped down for PSP and not whatever revolution was. They probably went too far in making it just like the first, but at least it's not like the psp games.

edit: I fixed an error with the circle description

@sixtycakes good for you, sincerely, i have nothing to say about the game itself good or bad, and i have no stake in if you enjoyed it or not.

i was just commenting that every time the game is mentioned on the podcast there are always people writing 500 word essays defending every little detail, and it gets boring wading through all the clutter.

To me the fascinating thing is why people feel the need to justify it with so much vitriol, the guy played it and tried to like it, and gave his feedback on his criticisms, people clambering to tell him he's wrong just because they like something is just so pointless, and condescending.

@ripelivejam i agree 100%

Waiting until reviews are out before releasing microtransaction lootbox spins is only a tiny bit more slimy and shameful than waiting for reviews to drop before releasing the multiplayer component of your game, which includes microtransactions.

Not sure how Rockstar does it without getting much scorn. MGS 5 did it too, and I suspect we're not far away from every big single player game doing it. It's where all the continued revenue comes from and they don't have to risk having it including in the critique of the full product. The late-addition multiplayer is either not reviewed at all or gets significantly less scrutiny. And unlike expansions, the continued review comes from selling consumables, so it's infinite like lootboxes with none of the hot baggage that comes with lootboxes.

@ilserpente: You summed up most of my feelings on Hollow Knight and GB most eloquently. Loved Joseph Anderson's breakdown and watched the whole thing while nodding along. It's one of those rare games I can't stop thinking about even though I haven't played it in months.

@dachopper: Yup. The biggest reason why I have never delved into the fan communities surrounding Fromsoft's games, despite them being some of my all time favourites, is because of all the "you just need to git gud" and "he just can't handle a game which doesn't hold your hand 100% of the way". Hollow Knight fans come across as just as off-putting, in exactly the same way. Not always, but often enough that I just don't want to engage and find myself getting irritated whenever the game comes up.

There's no actual evidence that Microsoft are planning on adding MTX lootbox spins to the game after release, and I'm a little confused as to what Jeff was referring to with Forza putting microtransactions in after reviews. The previous Horizon game didn't have them either.

Forza Motorsport 7 looked like it was going to have a form of paid lootbox, but they never ended up actually charging real money for them, and now they are taking them out completely. Beyond that, it's been pretty predictable for a while now with the Forza games - you've got the VIP Pass that comes with an assortment of stuff, the Car Pass that includes all of the car packs (which can be purchased piecemeal if you want), the two future expansion DLCs for Horizon, and the "Treasure Map" for Horizon that reveals all of the hidden stuff on the map if you're lazy.

The game's "Ultimate Edition" lays out all of the DLC for the game, and Playground actually put out a video thing yesterday explaining their post-release content roadmap for the game.

i don't understand how people have room in their freezers for jeans

Damn I had no idea that wasn't Nathan Fillion, Nolan North Terminatored me again.

Not all the way through, but Jan said grenadine is cherry, it's not, it's pomegranate. Grenadine comes from the "the apple of Grenada" which is a pomegranate, and is where we get the word "grenade"

Bens dismissal of TT was weird to hear. Love the guy, but he really tried undermining some awesome art made by those teams

Wolf among us, and Borderlands have fans just as passionate as WD. Just didnt reach as many

Hes completely right on voice chat. Jeff always exaggerates voice chat problems.

I keep saying "okay, I'll give Hollow Knight one more shot" and then regret it almost instantly. Apparently I'm close to the point in the game where it 'really opens up' but my patience is wearing thin. It's not a bad game per se. But there's so many games coming out these days, that I don't feel like slogging through something for hours on end just to see if it pays off at some point down the road.

The map system drove me nuts and I really didn't have a good time running back and forth from screen to screen trying to remember where the hell to go next and what I had to avoid. More importantly though, the entire game's somber down just bummed me out to no end. Which stinks, because the art style is freaking rad.

Lot of inaccuracies in the VC4 conversation

Tales from the Borderlands is great, it is as good, or better than the first season of TWD. You should all play it (if possible). It isn't just 'slightly' better than the normal borderlands games' story, it is giant leaps better than the normal borderland story.

@big_denim: is there any way you can return it or get a refund? It sounds like you borderline hate it. I would never play a game I dislike or call playing it "slogging through". It sounds like work.

I've noticed people, maybe Alex said it, that once you get through a certain point it starts becoming fun.

I see no difference between early game or late game. You are more or less doing the same things but with more abilities and health.

Request for a Slime Nut t-shirt.

Have to say Ben does the best anguished screams.