Giant Bombcast Giant Bomb's Game of the Year 2015: Day Five

I actually agree with Jeff about Mario Maker being the best game this year, but good lord his defenses for the criticism against it were flimsy at best. Brad was spot on about some of the disappointing aspects of the game, and the best Jeff could come up with was essentially what boils down to "it's not an issue anymore" and/or "that doesn't matter." Flat out wrong. Autoplay and "don't stop running" levels are still all over that thing both on the highly rated levels chart and in the 100 Mario Challenge, and the supposed self-correcting curation is near nonexistent.

It's the best game of the year, but there are flaws that can not and should not be overlooked or excused away.

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Witcher 3 deserved better (although not THAT much better).

There's timestamps further down in the comments with a list of everything they discussed.

Austin has been a great a addition to the GB crew. These deliberations have proved it. He is good at sticking to his guns, but has also been great sticking with the feelings of the whole group. Makes for great discussion where he brings really great logic to his choices, although he does overall tend to like the more indie bend. That is a good thing since Klepeck was also that voice of the "little" games, and the GB crew needs to have that gap filled. He is less idealistic than Klepek was and can let go, which is also a good thing.

I'm sad Dirt Rally didn't even get a mention, but it's timing was not good for this recording. Plus, Drew is the only racing guy on the panel.

This part I noticed as well. I love the guys and the work they do, but things like this makes me like them (individually) less. In this instance, I think it's really lame that Jeff didn't tally the votes like they were doing up to that point just to secretly push SMM. Also him laughing and simply dismissing people liking Rocket League more than SMM made me shake my head.

I know these discussions are nonsensical in the grand scheme of thing, but these are your colleagues/friends. Don't be a dick about it.

Man, that was a ride. There were a lot of cool bits in these deliberational podcasts, but who wants to talk about nice things? On with the criticism!

1. Jeff kind of loses his mind for a minute when he finds out Brad and some others would place Rocket League above Mario Maker. It made me slightly uncomfortable! But it was a good moment. I'm glad I got to share it with you all.

2. I could understand the appeal of every game on this list except for Grow Home. And I love 3D platformers, always have and still do. Mario 64, Banjo, Jak, Ratchet. Grow Home felt way too stripped-down and repetitive to even stack up to any of these games. Slowly climbing around on the tree, finding a seed pod thing, riding a new branch out, finding another seed pod, wash rinse repeat. I don't see the appeal and would rather have seen the rest of the list bumped up one place so Life is Strange could have made it on.

3. Brad. Brad, man. I love Brad. But he gets real salty in these Game of the Year things. The intensity of his attack on Mario Maker was surprising even though I knew he wasn't a fan of it. This is the same stubbornness that got Destiny onto the list last year. I am both impressed and worried by him.

This applies mainly to the earlier categories but can we as a group agree that the "but that game is getting its due in another category" reasoning for dropping something end? Its been a "reason" for years and its maddening to listen to. An item should be considered in that category without regard if its getting its "proppers" further down the line. Also their Witcher 3 reasoning was all bullshit.

I am well aware - I enjoy that they tear the shit out of the "generic" blockbuster titles.

I still am trying to beat Fallout 4 though. 55 hours. Fucking.. fucking I just want to finish it. I may be on their side here. I know I'm at endgame story quests, but it's STILL "fetch obscure object in area you already found that now magically has a full brigade of equally leveled baddies, then come back and we can continue the real story."

This was super fun to listen to. I loved Jeffs little freak out when they were figuring out where to put Rocket League.

He "dropped a bomb on it!" all at the end. "The best game since the beginning of Giant Bomb!" Incredible! Congrats to all :)

Writing off Life is Strange with Jeff's bit of "knowledge" was a fucking headturning criminal act for this year. A game that garnered positive, personal, and emotional affection from parts of the crew getting booted by The Witcher 3 -- a game I love, as well, and is my personal #2 -- which EVERYONE unloaded bullets of negative feedback with bits of small positives and still MAKES it in the top 10 despite this is >>INSANE<<. Been listening since 2008 and this is a robbery that is flabbergasting.

Such an arrogant, sophist condescending snob in four out of the five days. Ugh.

Here's to the end of a fucking awesome year!

@incognitohermit: To propose a counter-argument. I've finished Walking Dead and tried Wolf Among US and 1 more TT games that i can't remember now (they made so many...). To me its the opposite. Writing in their games i find bad, or maybe not the dialogs themselves but the story. I could predict almost every detail of the story of the Walking Dead cause it is already done to death. Yes, we get it, humans are real monsters, of course that kid got bitten, of course you have to shoot it, and so on...
But story is extremely subjective, what i think actually makes the LiS far more interesting (and better) are the gameplay and design choices. That time-travel mechanic in dialogues is fantastic. It showed you can have an impactful dialogue even without that TREMENDOUSLY STUPID time-restricted dialogue that TT is doing in their games (this doubles for me as a non-native speaker), and then there are QTEs of course. And then theres the way they incorporate environmental storytelling into their main story.

Except it wasn't just because of that. It was his personal No.1. You would want your best GOTY to be there too. And also, he was ready to talk about about counterpoints, it was just that people couldn't really cause they either havent played it or didnt really have any.

Great podcasts. The GOTY debates are just a type of game. Some people come to play hard, like Jeff and Austin, and others just kinda flow on through, like Drew and Jason. The mentality that one takes coming into these is a big part of "winning" or "losing". I am not surprised at the results after hearing the overall themes and tone of discussion.

Regardless of all of that, this is just a weird group OPINION that has little bearing for anything ever. For example, o what if Witcher 3 "ranked low"? No one finished it, no one cared enough to truly argue for it, and everyone clearly had a better time with other games.

Everyone be cool. Past GOTY results have been said time and time again to hold little value to the guys.

Yes, but that is why each GB member has their own personal list. This list is supposed to be representative of the GB Team as a whole, and Invisible Inc. shouldn't be on this list judging from each of the previous comments in the podcasts.

This deserves to be read many times. Spot on and well done.

Even after Duders saying it OUT LOUD multiple times to not take these lists seriously, people are stil throwing up arms about it so much :D i can't fathom it.

And also Vinny, if you looked at the comments section and you see how much people don't like duders pointing out flaws in their favourite games, you must be banging your head. Obviously, you have to repeat your "We think all these games are great" more.

Also i wonder, when will we reach a point, when even a smaller game can win these awards, like Rocker League for example. I'm not saying it should have, but it still feels like, there's a some kind of unwritten rule that GOTY has to go to AAA 60 dollar game even when it has many flaws compared to some of the tightly designed and executed smaller games.

And lastly, mad props to Austin. I already liked him (especially from the columns) but i still wasn't sold 100% on him. But now i love him. Working the table so well. But what should be REALLY POINTED OUT, is the way he talked about the games. When comparing 2 games (see Grow Home/Undertale), rather than hang on the flaws of 1 game (like "some other people") he emphasized the strenghts and compared those. Which is exactly what the spirit of these awards is supposed to be. That's not to say its not valid to point out issues in those games, but making your whole argument based of of it is not a good idea.

@jodokus_k: I feel like Jeff's best game of all time happens to be whatever he's playing a lot of at any given time. He even says with Rocket League (and in the past Warframe, Dying Light, etc) that he played it a whole bunch and enjoyed it but now he dislikes or hates it. Sooner or later, SMM will probably go the same way.

Just finished all of the podcasts. I have to say, I don't agree with Brad's tone through most of this discussion - and his defense of Grow Home seems weak. That game was derivative, short, mediocre, and passable at best. Nothing grasped me at all in its gameplay or presentation, not to mention simplistic loop and gimmicky controls. It would be a great game to be recognized briefly, then discarded from the list. Not to mention Brad's attack on mario maker, which seemed like a 3rd grader having a fit at lunch.

I think overall I appreciated Austin's voice in this discussion; he brought up excellent points and was a great mediator of disputes even though I don't agree with most of his choices.

My biggest disappointment has been the lack of love for The Witcher 3. I think I disagree with every objection the crew had on it to the point where I was wondering if they played the same game as me. Not only is the story engaging and incredibly fresh (I love the personal scope of the main quest, and it has the greatest side quests of quite possibly any western RPG to date), but the physical world they built is second to none. Every argument that could be made for the love of Red Dead Redemption can be trumped with TW3.

I fell in love with the "core loop"; playing on a harder difficulty and having to utilize every potion/spell/preparation before every battle was incredibly addicting. I even thought the upgrading was fresh, nuanced, and focused more on pure combat and reflexes, a la a Souls game. Did anyone in the crew actually upgrade their Signs? Because they completely change purpose, functionality, and usefulness to create different builds as the game progresses.

I think Geralt is one of the most nuanced, well thought out protagonists of an RPG as well, really making the character play as Geralt rather than some empty imagined shell of a character. Your sublte dialoge choice might not change the plot every time you speak, but it shapes the character in subtle ways to make him feel alive.

It's portrayal of war, battle, strife, and struggle of a barren country was the greatest depiction of wartime in a game to date. You felt for every human, every side of the conflict, and realized everyone was both terrible and pitiful at the same time. War isn't black and white, "hero saves the good guys", and from the very first scenes, TW3 tears down that trope with a fervor that is revolutionary for a AAA mainstream RPG.

I realized I could be biased, since I read the books and was completely blown away with how incredibly accurate they've realized the feel of that world... but my point stands. :)

I'm glad the game is getting recognized elsewhere (Gamespot, etc) for the achievement it is. Overall loved the conversation, and great to hear arguments for games like Invisible Inc., and Kerbal!

Wow, this got real intense.

Also, Austin revealing that he played Alex's Wii U while he was on vacation was pretty great.

@sethmode: words right out of my mouth. Really not big on SMM so I am biased, I just have very little interest to play more Mario at this point in my life, I don't give a fuck if its professionals designing the levels or the general population, Mario interests me none. But if I try to look objectively... I don't understand how a game that undeniably gives everyone a different experience based on the random levels that get thrown at you can win best game of the year... I would have been more accepting of it anywhere else on the list other than the first spot. As you said.. any other game I feel like Jeff would have laughed his own arguments right out of the room.

@rainy_david: This really rubbed me the wrong way that they don't really even acknowledge that the reason they like the game so much is 100 percent because they have an engaged community feeding them levels and playing the levels that they make. It is so dishonest because 98 percent of people who pick up this game are not going to experience what jeff and dan did with it on that basis alone. I have never (I don't think) ever disagreed with them enough to bother to comment. I've never ever felt such discomfort while listening or watching them give their opinions on anything.

Also, I don't really get what people's issue with brad was here. He was the only one trying to get jeff and dan to make actual arguments for SMM rather than just shitting on other games in order to get it to the top. So thanks Brad.. but fuck you also for giving in so easily. ( :

I hope Brad apologized to everyone after this. His demeanor ran the gamut from insufferable to outright rude. (When he snapped "WHAT?!" at Alex my whole body tensed up.) I don't blame anyone for needing a drink to get through it all.

Thankfully, Austin's adeptness at recognizing, analyzing, and addressing arguments served as a great counterweight to Brad's petulance and disrespect. I also enjoyed the genuine curiosity and professionalism Jeff demonstrated toward Austin. It's clear to me that Jeff highly values his insights and opinions, and that's pretty rad.

@sluggdiddy: I thought so too. On the other hand, this is GB's top 10, not an objective list for all people. There are pros and cons to GB's (and current industry standard) subjective approach to games criticism rather than old school attempts to be objective. I said this last year as well but hearing their extremely subjective opinions and weak arguments based on the (usually little to none) experience they have with these games on these GOTY podcasts kind of makes me appreciate them less. But hey,

GOTY lists are real dumb.

@nasar7: I do agree that its just their list in the end and people are not being shot because smm is number one on it. I love the SMM content here with dan and jeff, I just didn't think any convincing argument were posed for it, and instead everything else was just shit on to get it up there. And kind of was more heated in the moment than I was before or after it.

Eh... here's a different perspective. Only he and Brad (and Vinny, to a lesser degree) were able to articulate their thoughts well enough without just saying "no, you're wrong." I guess that's to be expected after several days of this though, but I could do with a bit more impassioned cases and less indignant "No, you're wrong."

I'm pretty bummed Grow Home and Fallout 4 were even in the discussion for top 10. Honestly both of those games are just messes that do too much to hurt themselves than help.

@zeushbien: Jeff calls Geralt shitty for his naming of horses (and other reasons) but there's something endearing about it. And his preference for mares.

@golguin: Ah I just don't associate the two names at all because they're spelled different like. Also I didn't get a notification for your reply. Odd.

Jeff just rubbed me the wrong way during this episode, the way he dismissed Life is Strange from just reading about the last two episodes, the way he just assumed SMM would win and laughed at the people who didn't like it. My tastes and opinions usually align with Brads and he didn't disappoint, thanks from defending Ori and at least trying to keep SMM from the top spot.

As someone who played through Life is strange, I think that reasoning of cutting it made sense. That game was pure story, sure they're were puzzles but that's not why you were there. I was thought the game was at least top 10...until I played episode 5. A long drawn out weird flashback/stealth sequence, and the ending, basically moved it off my personal top 10. If you left it off at 4, it would of been stronger.

Brad's and Jason's argument against Super Mario Maker was ridiculous.

Brad's attitude was horrendous and straight out rude during all of this episode, dismissing arguments all over the place. I'm not one to comment on the guys but goddamn it was bad.

I enjoyed Mario Maker and Rocket League... but the Bomb team have people to play and match up against and can do multiplayer much easier than many of us. im a solo gamer. And I made 3 levels in Mario, played a bunch of "made ones" - they SUCKED, and I don't really want to play it any more.... Same thing on Rocket League - without a team of my friends, it just doesn't hold appeal, its neat, but i lost interest quick. i think they are a game group and get a different take on games like that -- BUT Splatoon - I am a solo gamer, i hate online, and it got me in online match after online match. Splatoon over Mario Maker and Rocket League any day!

Best set of podcasts every year!

Although, I think you have too many cooks in the kitchen these days.

Every one sticks their heels in to ensure their personal favorite make the top 10. Understandable I guess but less dramatic.

2011's GOTY deliberation five man show is still the gold standard for mine!