Armageddan - Anyone beat it? has video?

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#1 Posted by mesklinite (899 posts) -

Dan just finished his latest creation, Armageddan. I don't have a wii-u... I'd love to see someone play it to know what awaits patrick!

If anyone has a stream, I would love to see it!

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#2 Edited by DizzyLemons (128 posts) -

I can see 2 clears out of 3509 deaths so far... so probably a bit early for something like that today.

Edit: I've put some time into playing the level and though I thought I made some progress it's really hard to know where the critical path is or even what's relevant. It's a beautiful mess asking unknown questions of the human psyche. The machinations of this level seem to be of Lovecraftian origin woven into jumps of eldritch horror and tasks dredged from the bottomless well of sadness and sorrow that is Dan's fantastically lovable brain.

Good luck Patrick, good fucking luck.

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#3 Posted by RazielCuts (3289 posts) -

Dan has a knack for these pun based levels, keep them coming.

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#4 Posted by SSully (5627 posts) -

Dan has a knack for these pun based levels, keep them coming.

I just noticed that it's Armageddan instead of Armageddon, so I am an idiot basically.

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#5 Posted by monetarydread (2887 posts) -

I am now looking forward to tomorrow Mario Maker Mornings. These things make me wish I could afford a Wii-U.

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#6 Posted by hassun (9874 posts) -

Just remember that posting theories on how to beat a level in the chat (whether they are true or not) is the same thing as posting a confirmed solution.

Don't do it.

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#7 Posted by JohnyMyko (1833 posts) -
Loading Video...

Let's listen to this while we wait, seems appropriate.

(because of the name, obviously)

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#8 Posted by wootootee (20 posts) -

2 clears, 5272 deaths reporting in.

The entire GB/Patrick Mario Maker saga finally made me break down and buy a Wii U and Mario Maker, and this is the first Dan level I've played without watching him make it. I love Mario Maker Mornings, but holy shit, I have a whole new level of appreciation for Patrick's Mario skills now. Armageddan, like Dan's other output, is like getting blindfolded and thrown into a MC Esher painting of horseshit.

I messed around with it for a hour and made virtually no progress (That's the thing about Dan levels. You'll think you've outsmarted him and eagerly go to test your theory, only to die repeatedly on stupid little mistakes that validate Dan's placement of a chain chomp here, a dry bones there, etc. Oh, and that little theory isn't even close.)

So after my mandated masochism, I opened it up in the editor, and I still don't really have a through line for the level. I think it revolves around obtaining Yoshi, but I don't have any idea about the order one should carry what item, and so forth. It also seems like using a bomb to remove blocks is a huge part of the level, but there's only one fucking bomb in the level, from what it looks like!

So... yeah. Really lookin' forward to a week(s) of MMM for this. Now I'm going to play 100 Mario Challenge on easy to get this Dan stench off my Wii U.

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#9 Edited by freakin9 (1226 posts) -

I might pop up a stream on twitch sometime, I'll let you guys know if I do, it will include a lot of level editor confusion. I've looked at this thing in the editor, tried some backtracking to figure it out, but am encountering some circular logic where the things I think I need I know where they are, but several steps and items needed to get to those things I can't get to... seemingly blocked off by something I can only get to by using the thing I'm trying to get to. It's headache inducing. I don't get the feeling there's any weird jumps like the stuff that plagues Jeff's levels. Though hearing the way Dan and Jeff were cackling at what was being created on UPF makes me think there's something sinister I'm not noticing.

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#10 Posted by WalterCrunkFite (618 posts) -

Armageddan, like Dan's other output, is like getting blindfolded and thrown into a MC Esher painting of horseshit.


This REALLY made me laugh :)

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#11 Posted by hippie_genocide (2417 posts) -

@wootootee: I had a similar experience with Armageddan. I played it for about an hour or so and just said nope I am not doing this to myself. I'd rather watch Patrick suffer. It's disheartening to see Jeff go down this dark path.

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#12 Posted by Bobby_The_Great (1139 posts) -

I like Dan doing this, but I really don't like his levels. I like a good challenge and great level design, but making levels hard just for the sake of being hard to near impossible is just punishment.

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#13 Posted by TheMasterDS (2974 posts) -

Klepek is going to lose and go to Wrestlemania. Dan's clearly been going easy on him making focused doable levels. No more. This is a nightmare.

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#14 Edited by freakin9 (1226 posts) -

I think I figured out how to do this, but my brain is pretty sure it isn't physically capable of going through every step without collapsing in onto itself. I put up a stream at http://www.twitch.tv/stubborngaming. I'm not Patrick, if you guys want to offer suggestions, or a cheese, go nuts.

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#15 Posted by Coolarman (1398 posts) -

I looked at it in the editor and I have no fucking clue how to beat this thing. #Pray4Patrick

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#16 Posted by freakin9 (1226 posts) -

Went through this whole level for like 2 hours, and while I figured out most of this on my own Maniac helped me with a couple cheeses and a bit of damage cape boosting I hadn't thought of. I may post a youtube about the solution for those confused about it, and I'll actually try to beat it at some point. It's... hell. I'm not sure how you figure out the solution without the editor. But the cheeses do skip some especially annoying bits. I'm not sure Patrick can beat this within a month, it will surely take him a long ass time just to figure out the solution.

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#17 Edited by joshth (720 posts) -

I would say that I worked out somewhere between 1/4 to 1/3 of the level's progression myself simply by playing and then it took both myself and my roommate collectively looking at the editor to figure all of the rest of it out. We know how it works now, but god it is a nightmare. The worst thing honestly seems to be getting it done in the 500 seconds. So much of this level is wasting time grabbing all sorts of different garbage (usually p switches).

It honestly seems like this is Dan's most devious level yet. It combines the puzzle aspects of the Ryckoning with the (mostly) straight difficult platforming of Klepockalypse. I will always be #TeamPatrick though.

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#18 Posted by Penderton (133 posts) -

Is there even a making of video? It's a lot more fun when you know he's doing the wrong thing.

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#19 Edited by Humanity (18576 posts) -

Not trying to rain on everyones parade here, but isn't this exactly the type of stuff that the guys complain about on the Bombcast? Like Auto scroll levels and such? It seems so weird that they mention how the quality of levels has decidedly gotten so much better since launch yet Dan continues to primarily contribute exactly the sort of stuff that most people will generally skip over and not enjoy.

Don't get me wrong, it's fun to watch the struggle especially since we get a unique window into the creators head (and what a horrible place it is) but on the other hand aren't these sort of levels a bummer for a majority of players? Isn't this just championing the problem?

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#20 Edited by Man5iac (9 posts) -

I would disagree because there is nothing forcing anyone to play this level. Skips exist for a reason in expert.

That said, the level is never unfair; it is just a very hard, obtuse puzzle. It took me three hours to get the first clear on the level by dissecting it in the level editor, trying stuff out, being wrong a bunch, and each time eliminating what can not be the answer. Each time I finally figured out another part (almost by virtue of it having to be done this way to advance), all that was left was getting the mechanics down to not die on each part of the level. The mechanics are certainly hard, and the level is very long, but the level can be worked through if you have a solid understanding of every mechanic in the game. There's only two red herrings in the level if you don't cheese it, too, so almost everything is important.

That said, I definitely recommend practicing each of the hard sections in the level editor to ensure you can do them consistently before you actually attempt any real runs. There are a lot of points of failure, and getting everything consistent is more important than anything else if you want to successfully clear the level.

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#21 Posted by inevpatoria (7422 posts) -

@humanity said:

Not trying to rain on everyones parade here, but isn't this exactly the type of stuff that the guys complain about on the Bombcast? Like Auto scroll levels and such? It seems so weird that they mention how the quality of levels has decidedly gotten so much better since launch yet Dan continues to primarily contribute exactly the sort of stuff that most people will generally skip over and not enjoy.

Don't get me wrong, it's fun to watch the struggle especially since we get a unique window into the creators head (and what a horrible place it is) but on the other hand aren't these sort of levels a bummer for a majority of players? Isn't this just championing the problem?

Yeah. This is kind of my sentiment as well. It's a little disappointing to hear them lament the lack of "good" levels and then go on to purposefully create experiences whose singular purpose is to be unpleasant.

To be completely fair, Mario Maker deserves a ton of credit for giving creators the tools necessary to push the platforming and puzzle mechanics to their veritable limits.

Honestly, what Dan (and Jeff, now) continue to do with these levels is underline something of a fundamental issue with Mario Maker's sorting options. Players like me, who want to enjoy creative "Nintendo-style" levels that balance challenge with accessibility, don't have a good way to search for those in-game. We're dependent on word of mouth and simple dumb luck, since the star rating system skews toward flashy auto-levels, silly themed stages, or these nightmare boxes.

This following statement is subjective, obviously, but I'm much more impressed with the craftsmanship required to make a level I might confuse for something that could actually be in a Mario game. It takes serious thought to construct a deathtrap on the level of Dan's monstrosities--and, again, I'm glad Mario Maker gives those levels a place to exist--but they aren't for everyone. While the super-tough levels are easy enough to avoid, I just wish the game made it simpler to find what I want.

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#22 Edited by BasketSnake (1819 posts) -

Mario Maker is hell but Jeff and Dan has grabbed hell by its tail, shaken it and turned it upside down to reveal the TRUE FORM OF GAME DESIGN. NIGHTMARISH. THE END OF ALL THINGS! I gave up on their levels ages ago. It's torture. These people don't want you to sleep at night. Truly evil.

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#23 Posted by freakin9 (1226 posts) -

Depends what you think a level should be, if you think a level should never force you to use the editor(and believe me I can see why you would think that) then this level is dogshite. Having said that, figuring out the solution in the editor is kinda fun, and the fact that there's a cheese that lets you skip half the level makes actually completing it doable. I'd say the hardest part is getting the feather, after that there's nothing too hard. You'll definitely mess up, but it's doable. The question is will Dan at some point close up the cheese. I think the level is fun with it, and way too hard if it was taken out.

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#24 Posted by geirr (3737 posts) -
@freakin9 said:

I think I figured out how to do this, but my brain is pretty sure it isn't physically capable of going through every step without collapsing in onto itself. I put up a stream at http://www.twitch.tv/stubborngaming. I'm not Patrick, if you guys want to offer suggestions, or a cheese, go nuts.

Thanks for posting the video, duder. It gives me some insight into what nightmarish stuff lie in wait for Patrick.

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#25 Posted by stinger061 (464 posts) -

I find Dan's crazy puzzle levels that rely on extreme logic and specific item use to be almost completely unwatchable on Patrick's streams. The idea of carrying items back and forth in a specific order doesn't make for great viewing.

Jeff's levels on the other hand are great. They are really challenging but rely almost entirely on executing on the basic mechanics of Mario, very rarely does he include anything that relies on backtracking or finding an obscure hidden item.

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#26 Posted by ottoman673 (1265 posts) -
Loading Video...

One of the duders (i don't know your username, unfortunately!) threw a video on Youtube. It looks like hell.

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#27 Posted by superslidetail (431 posts) -

Armageddan.....it on. Eh?

Can't wait to watch Patrick play this level. Madness will begin shortly.

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#28 Edited by geirr (3737 posts) -

@stinger061 said:

I find Dan's crazy puzzle levels that rely on extreme logic and specific item use to be almost completely unwatchable on Patrick's streams. The idea of carrying items back and forth in a specific order doesn't make for great viewing.

Jeff's levels on the other hand are great. They are really challenging but rely almost entirely on executing on the basic mechanics of Mario, very rarely does he include anything that relies on backtracking or finding an obscure hidden item.

I've been thinking similar, though I find both amusing. There's something extra fun about Jeff's more devious courses however since they have a degree of childish glee to them.

Armageddan is a whole new breed of P-switch & POW block hell though and I for one am looking forward to seeing Patrick's brain melt on stream.

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#29 Edited by freakin9 (1226 posts) -

Dan deleted the cheese version and reuploaded a new one without it(hmph)... so I went ahead and beat it all legit like, here's the video of that:

Loading Video...

And here's some failed attempts before the above clear for those that like watching a man tortured:

Loading Video...

And here's the vid/original post of the chez version:

Beat the level, twice, here's videa of me beating it the second time:

Loading Video...

Surely the clears will now skyrocket, since actually beating this thing is easy, it's the figuring out part that's the hard part. Alternate way through the cheese pipe is to run fly on the conveyor belt going against the grain(left). Really only getting the feather is hard, imo. Enjoy?

Edit: Here's also a blooper reel/nonsense/failed attempts/whathaveyou if anyone is curious:

https://youtu.be/0XZvDj70_B0

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#30 Posted by csl316 (14946 posts) -

@stinger061: Yeah, I was very impressed with Jeff's levels on the last UPF. He's gotten way better since Day One Fun and comes up with some really clever stuff.

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#31 Posted by Shoey920 (182 posts) -

Oh holy crap.

Patrick has no chance here. This is too much.

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#32 Posted by mesklinite (899 posts) -
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#33 Posted by Man5iac (9 posts) -

Great clear, @freakin9. The only thing I do differently is fly to grab the PSwitch through the wall with Yoshi for the last PSwitch. Very well done.

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#34 Posted by freakin9 (1226 posts) -

@man5iac said:

Great clear, @freakin9. The only thing I do differently is fly to grab the PSwitch through the wall with Yoshi for the last PSwitch. Very well done.

Thanks Maniac, I'm still not exactly sure how you do it correctly... especially within the time limit, I think my first clear was with 10 seconds left, that one was about 50. Also I'd say it's more likely Patrick does it this way than the intended method, if he does it at all.

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#35 Posted by hassun (9874 posts) -

@freakin9: That must indeed be a very tightly timed stage without skips.

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#36 Posted by Cav829 (827 posts) -

So I guess the way people were clearing it wasn't the way Dan intended, as he just uploaded a new version.

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#37 Edited by freakin9 (1226 posts) -

Heh, I kinda expected that with all the panicky talk on his twitter account. Aside from taking out the cheese he took out the coins at the end. Nearest I can figure is you need the spring, not the p block, at the end there, and you can just use the cape to get through those blocks.

I think I know how to do this, and it explains a lot of the level design. Before there was no reason to need the spring at the end. I'd chalk that up to Dan not thinking things through enough.

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#38 Posted by Retris (410 posts) -

@stinger061: I hope Patrick does what I've seen someone suggest and every day says he'll play the level tomorrow.

Or does it somewhere else. I really like his streams except for the times he plays Dan's levels.

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#39 Posted by WalterCrunkFite (618 posts) -

Without entering the editor, I really can't see Patrick completing this level... maybe ever!

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#40 Posted by Man5iac (9 posts) -

Just cleared it after choking on easy stuff like 100 times. I really do love Dan's puzzle levels, and I really want to see how Dan clears the level out of sheer curiosity. Only one very minor thing I would change about the level at this point that I will not mention, but overall, I had a ton of fun and can't wait to see Patrick get destroyed by this level. Just sad I lost the first clear spot, especially now that they're going to be displayed as part of levels with the next patch. Guess I'll have to make sure I'm the fastest. >:)

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#41 Edited by ALavaPenguin (948 posts) -

Wow that seems brutal after watching the clear. Not sure he will manage this one, but maybe. I could see him figuring it out... except for a few of the insane mechanic parts that one has that I didn't even know about.

I was thinking of for a future level if this somehow doesn't break Patrick...... something so evil you could do with checkpoints...

I know Dan is anti checkpoint, but this is a way that could be absolutely soul crushing to include a checkpoint. I mean look at Patrick doing jeff's level, he was so happy with that checkpoint, and he actually left his Wii U on multiple days to avoid losing it.

What if, you after a very tough section, gave Patrick a checkpoint. He would be VERY happy. However, what if after that checkpoint [would have to be after a VERY difficult section to make the checkpoint feel meaningful, like the difficulty of the levels he has been playing] you make a TON of hard to avoid traps [hard to avoid even if you know they are there] that get you stuck, but you CANNOT DIE in. Perhaps with clever invisible block traps + one way door traps.

Much like earlier Giant Bomb levels. However, with the checkpoint there, you have to SIT THERE AND WAIT FOR THE TIMER TO COUNT DOWN, OR YOU HIT RESET AND GIVE UP THE CHECK POINT ENTIRELY. Think about it. How truly evil that could be. You just have to sit there, and wait, or do the entire section up to the checkpoint again. If well designed in execution [probably not a puzzle type thing] this could be just soul crushing for Patrick.

Plus, I noticed when Patrick played Jeff's last level, when he died a super long sound effect played once when he died in the right spot. Because Patrick would not reset the level [losing the checkpoint] he had to sit there and listen, to the ENTIRE sound effect before it would respawn him, and it was shockingly long. I haven't tested this or anything, but I think if you placed those super long sound effects on almost every possible death after a checkpoint, and he had to just sit there, and wait, and wait, plus those no death timer traps... Patrick would give up for certain.

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#42 Posted by Shaneman (103 posts) -
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#43 Posted by mesklinite (899 posts) -

@alavapenguin:

I was thinking of a checkpoint that isn't a checkpoint.

When you reach the flag you get a mushroom. The real path forward is with this mushroom.
A path for small mario, when you respawn at the checkpoint, would waste some time and then, bring you back to the beginning of the level. This makes the checkpoint useless.

So, combine both our ideas. 2 checkpoints in the level. It would be EVILLLLLL

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#44 Posted by Hunkulese (4225 posts) -
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#45 Posted by mesklinite (899 posts) -

@hunkulese: If you can finish the level you can. It just requires you to do the extra bit as small mario from the check point, take the pipe that brings you to the beginning of the level and now do the level with less time than before.

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#46 Posted by Hunkulese (4225 posts) -

@mesklinite: If you need the mushroom from the checkpoint, you can't finish the level.

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#47 Posted by Hunkulese (4225 posts) -

@freakin9: I assume you used the editor to beat it?

After watching your video, I don't think Patrick's stream is going to be all that interesting to watch.

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#48 Posted by Dragon_Puncher (619 posts) -

@alavapenguin:

That's the best/worst idea I have ever heard. I hope Dan doesn't something like that, because I literally don't think I would be able to watch Patrick having to go through the soul crushing hell that would be.

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#49 Posted by ALavaPenguin (948 posts) -

@alavapenguin:

That's the best/worst idea I have ever heard. I hope Dan doesn't something like that, because I literally don't think I would be able to watch Patrick having to go through the soul crushing hell that would be.

Oh no you are right, it would be the most miserable for Patrick to play as well as for us to watch Patrick play. It would be one of the greatest evil things dan could possibly do. I mean, it could be so miserable for Patrick it may even reach a whole new level of entertainment where he just sits there screaming for 300 seconds or whatever every single death..... Or just gives up the check point entirely and plays as if it isn't there at a point, which is soul crushing in its own way.

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#50 Edited by freakin9 (1226 posts) -

@hunkulese said:

@freakin9: I assume you used the editor to beat it?

After watching your video, I don't think Patrick's stream is going to be all that interesting to watch.

Yep, no way to figure this out in a reasonable amount of time without looking at the editor. Keep in mind Dan has since deleted that version of the level though and uploaded a new one.

He still has a pointless part, the pow blocks, it seems like something he wanted you to get as small mario, but for what purpose I do not know. Needs something blocked off by a muncher.

I feel for the people that sit there watching Patrick do every possible thing slowly. Tried it for one hour, never again, I only watch his archives and fast forward now. Jesus, if only he said things that were entertaining, its usually just the word esports over and over again.

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