Bethesda's Parent Company Tells Notch 'Scrolls' is Off-Limits

Yeah, this is kind of excessive. I'm surprised they didn't go after Activision for Skylanders as I think that leads to more market confusion then 'scrolls' would. Imagine a mom or a dad that is trying to get the right game for their kid (why they would get an M-rated game for their kid is another topic all together), and they ask the guy working at, say, a Gamestop "My kid wants that sky game. He says you go around fighting people and collecting things for your guy. Do you know what game that is?". What game should the Gamestop employee give the parent; Skylanders or Skyrim?

They wont win. The trademark is "The Elder Scrolls" not "Scrolls".

Whats next, they will sue someone for using the word "The" because its a part word in their trademark...

How is it possible to copyright one word? That makes no sense. My highlighter says Major Accent on it, should the MLB sue the makers?

How is it possible to copyright one word? That makes no sense. My highlighter says Major Accent on it, should the MLB sue the makers?

If Scrolls is off limits, then what about Bethesda's very own RAGE? 
 
How many games have Rage in their names, huh?

As is said in the actual letter, what little of it I could read, it's sort opf like how you can't suddenly name a game "mario hockey" or something, because people would assume it was related to Super Mario Brothers. This is the example the lawyers used, but.. well, in reality, it's TES, The Elder Scrolls, or straight up Morrowind, Skyrim etc. As other, clever people, have said, it's probably just to make sure no one is trying to infringe on the whole "Elder Scrolls" thing, and "Scrolls: Banana Hammock" could potentially be sort of confusing to the less initiated I guess.
 
I mean, Warhammer and Warmachine? Clealrty not the same at all, right, and yet, to the uninitiated or very young, they could be confused because one is a game with miniatures and the other is Warhammer. Or Warmachine.. whatever.
 
Also, since it's Zenimax doing this, does this mean everyone using the words Doom or Quake or Rage in their titles can now expect to be sued? God forbid Sega should try and do a new Streets of Rage, we'd never heard the end of it.

Its a stupid thing, but I hate Notch and anything to make his life harder is welcomed.

@mrpandaman said:

@Aronman789:    Why do you hate him?

Long story short he completely fucked over one of my friends.

failure to actively use the mark in the lawful course of trade, or to enforce the registration in the event of infringement, may also expose the registration itself to become liable for an application for the removal from the register after a certain period of time on the grounds of "non-use".

Just call it Trenched. Shouldn't be any problems with that name, especially in Europe.

Somehow, I get the feeling it's all a question of Mojang weighing whether or not its worth bothering to fight. How much have they invested into the name Scrolls, compared to the legal fees required to fight it, and so on.
 
Bethesda also has a lot to lose - if it went to court, they're the big corporation trying to crush the small indie dev. And in the games industry, public opinion can mean much more to your bottom line.  Bethesda is seen as a "good" publisher, where Ubisoft is known for restrictive DRM among PC gamers.  Activision is known for being greedy, and releasing the same game year after year.  EA continually assimilates smaller companies into their whole.  These are generalizations, to be sure, and are not entirely true - but they exist.  In the games industry, as with any other industry that exists to sell products to home users, reputation is everything.
 
I kinda feel Mojang could win the case, but they'd still be out the legal fees. They'd win, or Bethesda would quietly withdraw the complaint. Is it really worth all this bad press, to protect a trademark from an obscure link that wasn't even thought of, before this letter was sent?

It's like that one time when I got so fucking confused when Super Meat Boy was for sale, I really thought it was the next Super Mario Bros but wow it so wasn't and now I'm so bummed out, or something?

Fuck off, ZeniMax. We know the difference between words.

@notha said:

i almost wanna see him rename it "not elder scrolls"

YES!

 " To be clear: Bethesda the developer is not pursuing this, it's the company who owns Bethesda." 

Bethesda == ZeniMax for all intents and purpose.  
  
From the GiantBomb wiki: In 1999, Bethesda Softworks was acquired by ZeniMax Media Inc., a company founded by Bethesda Softworks founder, Christopher Weaver and current ZeniMax Media Inc. CEO, Robert A. Altman.

@MonkeyKing1969 said:

You know what I see ZeniMax's point. This guy makes sprawling open worlds. He is making something similar to an RPG evidently. In addition, he wants to call it Scrolls.

I would say to Markus "Notch" Persson, "Really dude, you are so married to the word Scrolls that you simply have to use it?" If I got that letter from Zeni might have proposed what he said he proposed, but I also might have said, "Yup, what I'm thinking about might hit too close for the corporate world to feel comfortable. Just call the game Scripture or Scriptorium. Both of which are BETTER NAMES! Thank me later Notch, you can have those names for free.

Yeah, except Scrolls is absolutely nothing like an open world RPG.

It would be easy for Notch to 'fix', but the principle of the matter dictates that Zenimax's bullshit needs to be called out.

can we all agree that bethsheda (or the company that owns bethsheda) is being a little ignorant and crude, and should probably bring in real facts to a law suit before saying that they own a word

A plausible theory I saw on Reddit is that Zenimax need to send this letter out to Notch to say "We care a lot about our copyright and franchises". It's apparently to make sure that if someone ever does come out with a fantasy game called "Scrolls of the Elders" that Zenimax can sue them and can prove that they previously defended their copyright. It would seem to fit with Notchs suspicion that it is simply automated lawyer work and that its not serious. Not my theory but it would make some sense since this seems to have come out of the blue.

• he can fight it out in court (although personally I think that is a waste of time and money) or 
• he can just change the name (the game hasn't been released yet nor all that heavily marketed under the "Scrolls" name, so he ain't losing all that much; and he could save himself a costly legal battle).

I hope this is just a case of lawyers being silly, if not, Bethesda and Zenimax have tarnished a bit of their reputation with me.

Does anyone even say "The Elder Scrolls" when referring to Bethesda's games? I always just call them Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. Hell, for a time, I forgot that "The Elder Scrolls" was even part of the titles.

Does anyone even say "The Elder Scrolls" when referring to Bethesda's games? I always just call them Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. Hell, for a time, I forgot that "The Elder Scrolls" was even part of the titles.

Presenting: Markus Persson's Scrolls

Lol, he tries to trademark a completely ubiquitous word and the people that have a problem with that are the assholes?

Name police and patent trolls - the ugly side of the game industry.

Dick move by Bathesda they cannot hope to win.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@MonkeyKing1969 said:

You know what I see ZeniMax's point. This guy makes sprawling open worlds. He is making something similar to an RPG evidently. In addition, he wants to call it Scrolls.

I would say to Markus "Notch" Persson, "Really dude, you are so married to the word Scrolls that you simply have to use it?" If I got that letter from Zeni might have proposed what he said he proposed, but I also might have said, "Yup, what I'm thinking about might hit too close for the corporate world to feel comfortable. Just call the game Scripture or Scriptorium. Both of which are BETTER NAMES! Thank me later Notch, you can have those names for free.

Most sensible post so far.

Scrolls is a card/board game.

So yeah, sensible, but wrong.

wow. that is just stupid, thats all i have to say

@zeus_gb said:

This is stupid! How is anyone going to confuse two different games. I know the difference and that's good enough for me!

Trust me, there are some really dumb people out there. Plus that would easily be confusing to younger kids.

Here is the thing...  most people don't know what "The Elder Scrolls" is they recognize  "Morrowind" or "Oblivion"  but not the actual name of the series itself.   I doubt if there is any market confusion AT ALL.   But hey....its lawyers doing what lawyers do.

Patrick, where you say "... i.e. Scrolls: The Banana Expansion", I think you meant to use 'e.g.', instead. Also, I demand a quick look of Scrolls: The Banana Expansion. Make it happen!

Scrolls is just part of the name. Does that mean you cannot have 'Elder' or 'The' in your game's name too?

@ShaneDev said:

A plausible theory I saw on Reddit is that Zenimax need to send this letter out to Notch to say "We care a lot about our copyright and franchises". It's apparently to make sure that if someone ever does come out with a fantasy game called "Scrolls of the Elders" that Zenimax can sue them and can prove that they previously defended their copyright. It would seem to fit with Notchs suspicion that it is simply automated lawyer work and that its not serious. Not my theory but it would make some sense since this seems to have come out of the blue.

You're right, except it's trademark, not copyright. It seems pedantic but there is a big difference. Notably, you don't need to defend or set a precedent for defending your copyright because that stuff is guaranteed. But you do need to do all of that for trademark. This whole thing is just Zenimax/Bethesda/whoever going through the motions. Like I said, this kind of shit probably happens all of the time. The only reason we know about this case is because Notch mentioned it on Twitter and people decided to blow it out of proportion.

 I agree that this is kind of a crappy thing to do, but I take issue more with how this is going down than the lawsuit itself.  
 
What Zenimax is likely trying to do by bringing the lawsuit now is to prevent Persson from raising the defense called "laches" later.  The defense of laches basically says that if a plaintiff wants to bring a lawsuit, they need to do it as soon as they can. 

Since the defense of laches relates to how much delay there was prior to bringing the lawsuit, it is logical to bring the claim as soon as possible after you find out about the behavior you want to stop. In this case, when Zenimax found out that Persson was trying to trademark "Scrolls." If Zenimax does not  bring the suit now  they run the risk of the following situation: 
 
1. Persson applies for a trademark of the "Scrolls" name. 
2. Zenimax discovers the trademark application, but doesn't do anything. 
3. In a year, two years, whenever Persson actually finishes development of the game and it gets close to release, he decides to change the name to something like "The Older Scrolls." (Or some other name that has the potential to create more consumer confusion than just "Scrolls.")
4. At this point Zenimax sues. 
5. The case gets dismissed on the basis of laches because Zenimax knew about the potential problem several years before but didn't do anything. 
  
Given this, I can understand why Zenimax is sending out a bunch of legal junk to Persson now. However, that does not excuse the overall tone of the letter. At this point, there is no reason to make threats and demand money. Doing so is only likely to make Persson pursue litigation (a bad idea since the case Zenimax appears to have right now is, as we say in the business, "crap"). What Zenimax should be doing at this point is just putting Persson on notice that they are worried about the potential for confusion with their own series and would like to discuss the possibility of changing the name of Persson's product to something more satisfactory to Zenimax. If Persson refuses and the name doesn't change as the game gets closer to release, then they can get sue happy, but seeing as how Persson appears pretty amenable to discussion it seems unlikely to get this far..

i almost wanna see him rename it "not elder scrolls"

@laugurinn said:

worst PR stunt ever

Sad to say it but you are right "Notch" just made us talk about his next game...which he likley never had the intention of calling "Scrolls" anyway.

@MonkeyKing1969 said:

You know what I see ZeniMax's point. This guy makes sprawling open worlds. He is making something similar to an RPG evidently. In addition, he wants to call it Scrolls.

I would say to Markus "Notch" Persson, "Really dude, you are so married to the word Scrolls that you simply have to use it?" If I got that letter from Zeni might have proposed what he said he proposed, but I also might have said, "Yup, what I'm thinking about might hit too close for the corporate world to feel comfortable. Just call the game Scripture or Scriptorium. Both of which are BETTER NAMES! Thank me later Notch, you can have those names for free.

Most sensible post so far.

worst PR stunt ever

I can kinda understand why they are doing this. I mean Elder scrolls is their money maker and skyrim is coming out. Any threats must be eliminated! lmao

I can kinda understand why they are doing this. I mean Elder scrolls is their money maker and skyrim is coming out. Any threats must be eliminated! lmao

This is stupid!  How is anyone going to confuse two different games.  I know the difference and that's good enough for me!

I would encourage Notch to fight for the name "Scrolls" if it wasn't for the fact that it's a pretty lousy title. And on top of that, changing it wouldn't cause any brand recognition setbacks since people bareley knows what the game is about or how it looks. Go with something more unique and recognizable.

You know what I see ZeniMax's point. This guy makes sprawling open worlds. He is making something similar to an RPG evidently. In addition, he wants to call it Scrolls.

I would say to Markus "Notch" Persson, "Really dude, you are so married to the word Scrolls that you simply have to use it?" If I got that letter from Zeni might have proposed what he said he proposed, but I also might have said, "Yup, what I'm thinking about might hit too close for the corporate world to feel comfortable. Just call the game Scripture or Scriptorium. Both of which are BETTER NAMES! Thank me later Notch, you can have those names for free.

Scrolls sounds too similar to Skrulls. Someone get Marvel on this!

Lorne Lanning: "Hello, who is this?"

Unknown voice: "Hi there, you asshole! We represent the Penguin Classics series, and we'd like to talk to you about your game, Oddworld, Abe's Oddysee".

Lorne Lanning: "Wut?"

Penguin Classics: "We've found that 'Oddysee' is just a little too similar to our book, Homer's "Odyssey", and we would like to request that you fuck right off with that name. Maybe you should try 'Abe's Journey' or 'Abe's significant misadventures'. Bye!

*PHONE HANGING UP NOISE*

Meanwhile, at Penguin...

*RING RING*

Penguin Classics: "Hello?"

Unknown Voice: "Hey jack-off, we've from 20th Century Fox and we want to remind you that Homer is a registered trademark of Gracie Films, and if you don't change your book's name to Dave's 'The Odyssey', we're gonna send a guy over to beat your ass to death with a shovel!"

*PHONE HANGING UP NOISE*

I also immediately thought of Langdell. However, he was a single asshole; it's hard to imagine such an assholeish decision passed through the entire company and no one stopped it in its tracks and called it on its bullshit.

This is why we need a serial killer to exclusively focus on lawyers...

There will be no confusion when people go to buy The Elder Scrolls over some crappy game that might be called Scrolls!

There will be no confusion when people go to buy The Elder Scrolls over some crappy game that might be called Scrolls!

@dagas said:

Scrolls is just part of the name. Does that mean you cannot have 'Elder' or 'The' in your game's name too?

I wonder what Lovecraft and the whole Mesopotamian people would've had to say about this. Elder Scrolls is clearly an infringement on Elder Gods

"Scrolls." 
 
There.      I just cost Bethesda Billions in dollars by typing that.

Zenimax and Bethesda are the same business is all but name - they were funded and are owned by the same key people and this is about a Bethesda brand name franchise. Notch might be trying to avoid drama by separating the Bethesda name away but this is definitely an issue which rests at Bethesda Games feet. If we were talking about an id property this discussion would be a different matter entirely.

Lorne Lanning: "Hello, who is this?"

Unknown voice: "Hi there, you asshole! We represent the Penguin Classics series, and we'd like to talk to you about your game, Oddworld, Abe's Oddysee".

Lorne Lanning: "Wut?"

Penguin Classics: "We've found that 'Oddysee' is just a little too similar to our book, Homer's "Odyssey", and we would like to request that you fuck right off with that name. Maybe you should try 'Abe's Journey' or 'Abe's significant misadventures'. Bye!

*PHONE HANGING UP NOISE*

Meanwhile, at Penguin...

*RING RING*

Penguin Classics: "Hello?"

Unknown Voice: "Hey jack-off, we've from 20th Century Fox and we want to remind you that Homer is a registered trademark of Gracie Films, and if you don't change your book's name to Dave's 'The Odyssey', we're gonna send a guy over to beat your ass to death with a shovel!"

*PHONE HANGING UP NOISE*