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E3 Needs to Grow Up

Despite a growing call for change, the organizers of E3 have no plans to address the booth babe issue at the industry's biggest show.

I'm sure these women are well versed in the talking points for Namco Bandai's upcoming fighting game.
I'm sure these women are well versed in the talking points for Namco Bandai's upcoming fighting game.

There’s been no shortage of discussion about women and video games this past week.

The conversation’s been driven by the gross response to Anita Sarkeesian’s nearly finished Kickstarter about the unfortunate and exclusionary tropes of female video game characters, and the quickly scrutinized comments from a producer on Tomb Raider about a potential rape scene (a description the studio has walked back) in the new game.

These are all good, uncomfortable conversations to have, but if we're talking about the depiction of women in games at such a serious level, how do we still have E3 booth babes? Other than for easy hits in web galleries, anyway.

The commonly referred to booth babe (also known as a "woman") is hired solely to wear skimpy clothing with a game or company’s logo and take photographs with attendees (who does that, by the way?). Typically, they are not well versed in the product they are hired to represent.

It seemed like a good time to check in with the Entertainment Software Association, who manages E3.

Despite some of the recent heated conversation, there are no plans to shift E3 policies.

"Exhibitors determine for themselves what is the best representation for their companies. Models are welcome if companies would like to have them, but that's an individual exhibitor decision,” said ESA VP of media relations and event management Dan Hewitt in an emailed statement to me yesterday.

Ghost Recon Commander designer Brenda Brathwaite sparked a vocal debate on Twitter over booth babes before she headed to the E3 show floor last Thursday.

“I dread heading off to work at E3 today,” she said. “The show is a constant assault on the female self esteem no matter which direction I look. I am in good shape, yet it is impossible not to compare. I feel uncomfortable. It is as if I walked into a strip club w/o intending to. These are the policies of @e3expo and @RichatESA. I feel uncomfortable in an industry I helped found.”

Her comments found plenty of support, such as Inside Network managing editor AJ Glasser.

@br The worst is when I get so good at seeing right through it that I forget they're actually women underneath the barely-there clothes.

— AJ Glasser (@Joygirl007) June 7, 2012

It’s not a new critique, but it was louder this year, and there seems to be a growing desire for change.

There was also the usual “what’s the big deal?” responses, including 3D Realms co-founder George Broussard.

@br I think you/others take it too seriously. It's not some academic event. It's a glitz show full of spectacle. #serious_business

— George Broussard (@georgeb3dr) June 7, 2012

It’s been a few years, but the ESA policy on booth babes has changed from E3's inception. The last major shift came in 2006, as new penalties, fines and policies were introduced regarding women featured in E3 exhibits.

"What's new in 2006 is an update and clarification of the enforcement policies; as we do from time to time, we have taken steps to ensure that exhibitors are familiar with the policy and how it will be enforced," said E3 show director Mary Dolaher to Reuters at the time.

A violation of the clothing policy would result in, at first, a warning, and then a $5,000 fine. Here’s what the handbook from 2006 said to exhibitors considering booth babes--er, sorry, live models:

"Material, including live models, conduct that is sexually explicit and/or sexually provocative, including but not limited to nudity, partial nudity and bathing suit bottoms, are prohibited on the show floor, all common areas, and at any access points to the show."

Hewitt told me there have been no changes to ESA policy since 2006.

Maybe there should be. Consider this anecdote that didn’t even take place on the show floor itself.

This was one of the first results the search term
This was one of the first results the search term "Devil May Cry strippers" gave me, sorry.

We arrived to our Capcom appointment, I plunked down with Lost Planet 3, and Alex Navarro was ushered over to play Devil May Cry. In a room of kiosks, there were pole dancers. It’s unclear what that has to do with Devil May Cry. The girl hired to skimpily waltz around was sitting on the floor, looking bored. Everyone in the room is focused on playing the game, and Alex wasn't playing Devil May Cry in a see-through bubble. No one on the show floor could see this room. Can someone explain how this helps anyone do their job?

Elsewhere, I refused to play any 3DS games at Nintendo’s booth because the company didn’t have a table with machines, and instead tethered its lineup to attractive women. I let that gimmick slide when Nintendo pulled the same trick at the original 3DS unveiling, but I’ll just wait until those games are out now, thanks.

Nintendo probably thought it was a cute idea. I doubt (and this is my sincere hope) Nintendo meant to undermine the credibility of women at gaming’s biggest show. It's still ignorance. Many of the issues regarding women and E3 aren’t overtly offensive, and can be easily rationalized by those who don’t see a problem.

That’s okay--we should have a debate about it.

And this is all hardly an issue that’s exclusive to games. The same week as E3, the Computex Summit was happening in Taipei, and computer manufacturer ASUS sent out the following tweet:

No Caption Provided

That tweet has since been deleted and ASUS released an apology, obviously.

I can gripe all I want, but the most effective solution has to come from the ESA itself. Only the ESA can enforce regulations on exhibitors, and let them know this archaic marketing tool needs to go away. If games are growing up, so does the way we go about advertising them in front of, ostensibly, a bunch of professional. This isn’t 1994.

PAX figured this out years ago, even if there have been incidents along the way (i.e. Lollipop Chainsaw at PAX East).

“Our definition of a ‘booth babe’ has been a model (male or female) that has been hired to stand/sit in skimpy clothing to market the product,” said Penny Arcade president of business development in 2010. “If that person knows the product inside and out then it’s less of an issue. A company representative that can interact with attendees in a way that provides value as opposed to ‘hey stare at my body’ is something that we encourage whether or not that representative is physically attractive or not.”

If E3 is supposed to represent the industry’s best, why can’t it figure out how to respect its own attendees?

Patrick Klepek on Google+

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TentPole

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@TeenageJesusSuperstar said:

The worst shit
The worst shit

Alright. That is kinda embarrassing.

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azteris

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@slowbird said:

All of the problems regarding sexism would be solved if we would just punch dudes in the face when they act like pigs. Unfortunately, there's no way we can punch almost every dude on earth in the face. At least, not until we invent face-punching robots.

Should I point out the irony to you? Or just let it just kind of hang there?

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@YukoAsho said:

@TooWalrus said:

@jakob187 said:

I can see the part of this where Patrick is saying "yo, we should stop treating women like objects as a society", but the question is this: when women either allow themselves to be treated like objects or dress themselves up to be objects, how can you start saying "women shouldn't be treated as objects"?

I mentioned this earlier, but I had few 'feminist' professors my first year of community college, and they think this whole chivalry act is bullshit, and even more demeaning and objectifying. Like, even if Nintendo is using women as a sex object to advertise their games, people with Patricks new-found beliefs are treating women like children or fucking puppies that need protection and can't make decis... Why am I still reading this thread, this whole think is pretty fucked.

I'm asking the same, but at the same point, I'm glad you're bringing this up. We really aren't that fragile and helpless, and I really wish men like would get that through their thick fucking skulls.

I don't really think his point is that women are fragile and helpless. I think it's got some multi-faceted portions to the article itself. He points out the situation with ASUS, and yeah, that was fucked. I mean, don't get me wrong - she had a great ass. Nonetheless, it still not something that a professional company should be tweeting out. At the same time, if that chick didn't want someone checking out her ass, she wouldn't be wearing what she's wearing.

But then that gets down to the whole idea of "well, if a woman dresses like a whore, treat her like a whore", which is not correct either. Women are allowed to doll themselves up, look pretty...hot...gorgeous...spectacular...bootilicious...whatever fucking word people want to throw out.

There's that thing rapists always say "well, she was begging for it". No, she fucking wasn't. You are just fucked in the head and decided to take out some primal male dominance issues that you have on someone who happened to have a female body and work up said instincts.

The entire idea of feminism is fucked beyond all recognition, and if anything, it's far more oppressive to men than women will ever believe that it is. Why? Because it paints every male as being some fucking pig and scoundrel that is no good. It's goddamn stupid.

Whatever happened to just labeling things as "good" and "bad" rather than everything else? When did sex and sex appeal become a bad thing?

If sex and sex appeal is such a bad thing, then I want someone to resurrect Herb Ritts and tell him to unfilm the video for Chris Isaak's "Wicked Game", because that fucker gave me a wicked boner EVERY GODDAMN TIME it was on MTV!

Oh...wait. The video for "Wicked Game" was art? Really? Seemed like a dood trying to get fucked on the beach to me!

I really don't think I can keep going in this thread. If journalists don't want booth babes at their trade show, then tell the companies you won't cover them if they have booth babes. I guarantee...GUARAN-FUCKING-TEE...that there will not be a single fucking booth babe in sight at the next E3. If you can't muster up the balls to do that, then fuck off with the white knight shit, gaming journalists.

DROPPED
DROPPED
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EthanML

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I don't feel strongly about this one way or the other, but:

Correct me if I'm wrong - nobody's forcing these girls to do anything. They chose to do this, most of them probably enjoy getting to flaunt their hot-ness at events like these.

So, you can certainly criticise the companies' choice of using the girls to market their product, if that's what you object to - but the argument that it demeans women in some way seems invalid given that the women themselves choose it. They don't have to represent the opinions of their gender at large, they can do whatever they want.

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@Anwar said:

@Pop said:

How can you ban Jessica Nigri(she's the Lollipop Chainsaw girl) from wearing skimpy cosplay? she makes her own costumes, so she wants to look that way.

PAX knew that Capcom would bring her along(she won a contest to represent Juliet for the game) but the outrage of attendees was the reason for her to wear a sweater(change clothes) and/or leave(I forgot the specifics).

1) Lollipop Chainsaw is a WB game. Not Capcom

2) She wasn't even dressed as Juliet. She was wearing some pink leather catsuit with v-neck that went nearly to her crotch. She eventually changed INTO the Juliet costume.

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@TentPole said:

@TeenageJesusSuperstar said:

The worst shit
The worst shit

Alright. That is kinda embarrassing.

The embarrassment is more the fault of Game Trailers for their choice of words than the ladies at the show.

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Claude

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@slowbird said:

All of the problems regarding sexism would be solved if we would just punch dudes in the face when they act like pigs. Unfortunately, there's no way we can punch almost every dude on earth in the face. At least, not until we invent face-punching robots.

If I'm being sexist, I would rather be slapped on the butt and told that I'm being a bad boy. A punch to the face hurts like hell.
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MTSaSquatch

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Am I the only one who sees this as an effect of a larger problem? Every article like this is just a veiled attempt to address the issue of sexism in the games industry. The Girl Gamer, pay disparity, gender neutral games, "Girl Games" and the disappearing woman (not to be confused with Invisible Girl, but that may still be an apt description). Reading articles like this and Bens at the PA report, makes me sick. They're lengthy diatribes that only address the red hearing of marketing strategies and not real issues like the 30year drop in women graduating out of Computer Science (and recent success stories at reversing that and how they did it), the lower percentage of women working on the development side of the industry, and teaching techniques for university courses. Without a significant look at this pipeline of education, female enrollment will continue to decline overall and the situation will only get worse. You can talk about the rising demographic of female gamers all you want, but if your workforce is made up of only 10-20% woman, you can't exactly claim you're working in a deserve field.

Now don't get me wrong, I think these are lazy and inefficient methods for marketing and are usually (there are also just idiots and/or fools sometimes making these decisions) only used on shitty products when there's nothing better to use to sell us on a game (and yet there're always boothbabe photo theads on blogs... so I guess it does still grab attention). However, I would much rather speak my mind against such a product with my wallet by not purchasing their product then enacting a holier than thou attitude about it.

"If E3 is supposed to represent the industry’s best, why can’t it figure out how to respect its own attendees?"-Patrick Klepek

I wouldn't even consider this true at all. It's a trade show where products are pushed, it's not the Oscars ... The Oscars aren't even the Oscars . It's been said on GiantBomb many times, that E3 is changing to adapt to the Live TV coverage. If anything, we'll see more "sex sells" applied as companies get desperate with how to get low grade products a glimpse on that camera and "make it stick."

Companies using sex to sell products? What shocking turn of events is this?

Get better developers in the industry and we'll see better games.

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@Shaanyboi said:

@Anwar said:

@Pop said:

How can you ban Jessica Nigri(she's the Lollipop Chainsaw girl) from wearing skimpy cosplay? she makes her own costumes, so she wants to look that way.

PAX knew that Capcom would bring her along(she won a contest to represent Juliet for the game) but the outrage of attendees was the reason for her to wear a sweater(change clothes) and/or leave(I forgot the specifics).

1) Lollipop Chainsaw is a WB game. Not Capcom

2) She wasn't even dressed as Juliet. She was wearing some pink leather catsuit with v-neck that went nearly to her crotch. She eventually changed INTO the Juliet costume.

The pink suit is an alternate costume in Lollipop Chainsaw. L2research.

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Patrick, I get what you're trying to say here. Really, I do. And I agree, it's fucking gross, sad, unprofessional, pathetic, pandering, or whatever else you want to call it. But you're aiming your gun at the wrong place.

If the media didn't cover it as much as they did, there's a possibility this shit would die down. Hell, some of them fucking use it. Look at fucking GameTrailers' montage of booth babes. Look at IGN pretty much hiring Jessica Chobot or Naomi Kyle as their "spokespersons". The former for licking a PSP, the latter because they needed a replacement for the former.

Why did they get hired in the first place? They aren't veteraned writers and critics in the industry or anything (though I'm not going to say either aren't gamers or anything. I'm sure they're both fine people). They are just honestly there because "HOLY SHIT! HOT GIRL TALKIN' 'BOUT VIDEOGAMES?? *click*" It's almost as tragic as looking at the fucking meat-headed comments sections.

I love that GiantBomb has some actual fucking respect for itself and its userbase as to avoid that crap, but I can't say the same for every other media outlet. It's pretty fucking dumb for Capcom to pull a stunt like having that stripper, or EA for all the garbage around Dante's Inferno... and Dragon Age... and a lot of games they put out. But it's just as fucking dumb that "gaming journalists", the trendsetters for a lot of people who look for news on events like E3, respond to and cover that garbage.

@TeenageJesusSuperstar said:

The worst shit
The worst shit

fucking christ....

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TentPole

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@Hailinel: I agree with you 100%.

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@Shaanyboi said:

@Anwar said:

@Pop said:

How can you ban Jessica Nigri(she's the Lollipop Chainsaw girl) from wearing skimpy cosplay? she makes her own costumes, so she wants to look that way.

PAX knew that Capcom would bring her along(she won a contest to represent Juliet for the game) but the outrage of attendees was the reason for her to wear a sweater(change clothes) and/or leave(I forgot the specifics).

1) Lollipop Chainsaw is a WB game. Not Capcom

2) She wasn't even dressed as Juliet. She was wearing some pink leather catsuit with v-neck that went nearly to her crotch. She eventually changed INTO the Juliet costume.

That pink leather catsuit is one of Juliet's costumes from the game. People really blew that thing up anyway, both her and the Penny Arcade guys had no problem with each other and got along. People weren't even outraged, they just asked her to change into something more appropriate if she was going to leave the Lollipop Chainsaw demo bus and she had no problem with doing so.

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That lady in the Asus photo does have a nice booty, though.

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@TeenageJesusSuperstar said:

The worst shit
The worst shit

I love this.

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@braveortega said:

@TeenageJesusSuperstar said:

The worst shit
The worst shit

I love this.

I wonder if this was Geoff Keighley approved. I was actually watching Spike during E3 and they had this girl in basically strings playing a video game on set. Needless to say, she was hot.
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Agreed with Tricky here.

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I disagree. This "archaic marketing tool" works, sex sells, men or women, it is human nature. From the Booth Babes to Harlequin novel covers - humans are drawn to their basic instincts, to deny that is just stupid and pious. Unless humanity can over come that nature first then you can't ask for the Booth Babes to go away completely. Yes E3 needs to to grow up but it needs games that are more "grown up".

The problem I see is that more and more game journalists expressing that they want more "Art" and more mature games in the medium, and yet want to reduce the "immature" games and their marketing. There is room for both, and to act morally prudish about content does nothing.to help the medium.

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@patrickklepek said:

@Turambar said:

@bonbolapti said:

@Turambar: They are women dancing around in clothes they've had all day goofing around in a video intended to be parody.

I'm sure you understand what you're talking about, and what I'm talking about. otherwise this just looks like a random internet person attacking an article with no point or real reason.

It's pretty obvious isn't it?

Meant to be goofy? Sure. Meant to be parody? Not convinced. The purpose of the video was praise of Rock Band (or was it guitar hero? I can't tell the difference) where the inclusion of the dancers was either a deliberate choice or a no-brainer choice, and not something meant to invoke any image outside of "look at those hot chicks dancing it up with the rock god." Both choices lead to the conclusion that such an image was considered indispensable/natural by whoever came up with the video, and runs very much counter to the sentiment "booth babes are the worst thing ever" when it comes to depiction of women for both.

I was in college and it was a goofy parody video for a Guitar Hero contest for 1UP. Yeesh!

The images were chosen for a reason and the image that probably naturally came to your mind for the video happened for a very clear reason: the culture that your video (parody or not) was a video of praise for revels in it while the video displays is an acceptance of that.  And that depiction of women that the video accepts to be natural runs fully contrary to the sentiments placed in this article.
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@Gerhabio said:

silly variations on "sexism doesn't exist anymore/ it's just a video game/ it happens to men too"

Are you somehow implying that it doesn't happen to men too?

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What are you, a homo Patrick?? Ohhhh!

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@Claude said:

@braveortega said:

@TeenageJesusSuperstar said:

The worst shit
The worst shit

I love this.

I wonder if this was Geoff Keighley approved. I was actually watching Spike during E3 and they had this girl in basically strings playing a video game on set. Needless to say, she was hot.

I approve of anything Jessica Nigri.

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@Anwar said:

@Shaanyboi said:

@Anwar said:

@Pop said:

How can you ban Jessica Nigri(she's the Lollipop Chainsaw girl) from wearing skimpy cosplay? she makes her own costumes, so she wants to look that way.

PAX knew that Capcom would bring her along(she won a contest to represent Juliet for the game) but the outrage of attendees was the reason for her to wear a sweater(change clothes) and/or leave(I forgot the specifics).

1) Lollipop Chainsaw is a WB game. Not Capcom

2) She wasn't even dressed as Juliet. She was wearing some pink leather catsuit with v-neck that went nearly to her crotch. She eventually changed INTO the Juliet costume.

No Caption Provided

1) Somebody corrected me on that already and I don't see how that's important at all.

2) And that is a costume of Juliet.

Missing the zipper, bro. All in all, a decent work of fashionable art and stuff. She made it, so artistic expre-aw fuck it

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Indeed, we need more class in our conventions about games in which you shoot people in the face.

...alright, to be fair, in some of the games you stab people instead.

If all the films shown at Cannes were at the same level of sophistication I doubt it would be a very "mature" event either.

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I hope that as I grow into old age, I'll have more to offer the world than being an obstacle that others can take solace in the fact will die soon. Yeah, George Broussard would say that. He also made Duke Nukem Forever.

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@TadThuggish said:

I hope that as I grow into old age, I'll have more to offer the world than being an obstacle that others can take solace in the fact will die soon. Yeah, George Broussard would say that. He also made Duke Nukem Forever.

good man

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Should the ESA really need to step in, though? It's like taking away the responsibility of parents to control what games they deem appropriate for them. I suppose, in this case, the ESA is the parent and the exhibitors are the children that can't be trusted to make their own decisions.

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@Turambar said:
@patrickklepek said:

@Turambar said:

@bonbolapti said:

@Turambar: They are women dancing around in clothes they've had all day goofing around in a video intended to be parody.

I'm sure you understand what you're talking about, and what I'm talking about. otherwise this just looks like a random internet person attacking an article with no point or real reason.

It's pretty obvious isn't it?

Meant to be goofy? Sure. Meant to be parody? Not convinced. The purpose of the video was praise of Rock Band (or was it guitar hero? I can't tell the difference) where the inclusion of the dancers was either a deliberate choice or a no-brainer choice, and not something meant to invoke any image outside of "look at those hot chicks dancing it up with the rock god." Both choices lead to the conclusion that such an image was considered indispensable/natural by whoever came up with the video, and runs very much counter to the sentiment "booth babes are the worst thing ever" when it comes to depiction of women for both.

I was in college and it was a goofy parody video for a Guitar Hero contest for 1UP. Yeesh!

The images were chosen for a reason and the image that probably naturally came to your mind for the video happened for a very clear reason: the culture that your video (parody or not) was a video of praise for revels in it while the video displays is an acceptance of that.  And that depiction of women that the video accepts to be natural runs fully contrary to the sentiments placed in this article.
Are you serious? There's a huge difference between a YouTube video and million dollar corporation parading women around a press show. You're being ridiculous.
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tjspeirs

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I think everything related to gaming needs to grow up, industry, media, and audience alike.

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Also, while I am still here, I will take another opportunity to drop the mic.

E3 and the gaming industry need to grow up? IT HAS GROWN UP!

It has grown up exponentially over this past console generation. Look at the amount of improved writing, increased drama, increased emotion, and use of mechanics that we have garnered within ONE GENERATION OF CONSOLES! Games like Portal, Braid, Limbo, From Dust, Dark Souls, Assassin's Creed, Bioshock, The Misadventures of P.B. Winterbottom, El Shaddai, Dear Esther, Amnesia, Bastion...I mean, I cannot even THINK of how many games have helped the games industry grow up. Hell, himself points out a plethora of games on a pretty regular basis that prove the growth of maturity in the gaming industry. Therefore, to say that the gaming industry isn't growing up is a bit of a misnomer.

Has the ADVERTISING grown up? No, not particularly...but then again, football teams still have scantily-clad women on the sidelines to boost team morale and dance around to cheer up the crowd. It's not exactly the same scenario with booth babes at E3, but it's not like they are hurting anything either. "Well, they hurt the image of the games industry". Personally, I think the state of perpetual warfare that is showcased in the games industry, mixed with the nature of violence that we present in those games and the relatively inaccurate way that the ESRB can rate games (Bad Company 1 cussed non-stop and has modern warfare violence and got rated T, but Bad Company 2 has F-bombs and blood now so it's rated M?), seems to be far more offensive to the gaming industry than some women walking around at a booth.

Ya know, there's really nothing else that can be said about this. There is NO right answer to it. There is merely the opinions that we all have, and in the end, those opinions are not going to be changed. I don't believe in objectifying women or men for the sake of selling something, but I also can't say that I'm against looking at someone like Jessica Nigri and saying "godDAMN she is hot".

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Shaanyboi

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Hey guys, while we're talking about totally pointless shallow bullshit, this one still stands out in my mind...

....yeah

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Evilsbane

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@Vorbis said:

Planetside 2 did it right, although I'm sure someone will still find it offensive.

No Caption Provided

Nah there is a difference between Whoring out and just being Bad Fucking Ass those costumes are amazing.

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Milkman

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@Anwar said:

@Shaanyboi said:

@Anwar said:

@Pop said:

How can you ban Jessica Nigri(she's the Lollipop Chainsaw girl) from wearing skimpy cosplay? she makes her own costumes, so she wants to look that way.

PAX knew that Capcom would bring her along(she won a contest to represent Juliet for the game) but the outrage of attendees was the reason for her to wear a sweater(change clothes) and/or leave(I forgot the specifics).

1) Lollipop Chainsaw is a WB game. Not Capcom

2) She wasn't even dressed as Juliet. She was wearing some pink leather catsuit with v-neck that went nearly to her crotch. She eventually changed INTO the Juliet costume.

No Caption Provided

1) Somebody corrected me on that already and I don't see how that's important at all.

2) And that is a costume of Juliet.

I'm not going to pretend that I don't like boobs but if I saw this while on was on the show floor trying to do work, I would probably be tad uncomfortable. 
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HerbieBug

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This is not a decision E3 event organizers should be a part of. It is up to the individual companies. As it should be. I don't understand why Patrick is so adamant that E3 brass should make some overarching policy. How would you even word something like that? Where is the line drawn? No "pretty" booth attendants? "Pretty" okay, but no "skimpy clothing"? Define, "skimpy clothing". The PAX policy itself is way too broad, with many holes. It seems to allow booth models if, and only if, they are knowledgeable about the product.

You want to shame somebody, Patrick, shame Capcom, Namco, and all the rest. Leave E3 organizers out of it.

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Turambar

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@Milkman said:
@Turambar said:
@patrickklepek said:

@Turambar said:

@bonbolapti said:

@Turambar: They are women dancing around in clothes they've had all day goofing around in a video intended to be parody.

I'm sure you understand what you're talking about, and what I'm talking about. otherwise this just looks like a random internet person attacking an article with no point or real reason.

It's pretty obvious isn't it?

Meant to be goofy? Sure. Meant to be parody? Not convinced. The purpose of the video was praise of Rock Band (or was it guitar hero? I can't tell the difference) where the inclusion of the dancers was either a deliberate choice or a no-brainer choice, and not something meant to invoke any image outside of "look at those hot chicks dancing it up with the rock god." Both choices lead to the conclusion that such an image was considered indispensable/natural by whoever came up with the video, and runs very much counter to the sentiment "booth babes are the worst thing ever" when it comes to depiction of women for both.

I was in college and it was a goofy parody video for a Guitar Hero contest for 1UP. Yeesh!

The images were chosen for a reason and the image that probably naturally came to your mind for the video happened for a very clear reason: the culture that your video (parody or not) was a video of praise for revels in it while the video displays is an acceptance of that.  And that depiction of women that the video accepts to be natural runs fully contrary to the sentiments placed in this article.
Are you serious? There's a huge difference between a YouTube video and million dollar corporation parading women around a press show. You're being ridiculous.
In terms of production?  Yes.  In terms of sentiments?  No.  And that sentiment is being both accepted and rejected by the same author in two different works.
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Forderz

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That link to the rampant sexism that lady is suffering through got me to chip in to her kickstarter.

Mission accomplished, misogynists.

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Hailinel

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@Forderz said:

That link to the rampant sexism that lady is suffering through got me to chip in to her kickstarter.

Mission accomplished, misogynists.

Spite is an incredibly powerful (unintentional) fund-raising tool.

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obinice

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On the one hand, I get how all these things create/breed inequality. In the other hand, it can't be denied that men and women are not the same. Our overarching goals and beliefs, wants and fears are the same yes, but we are different. We are not equal.

That's not to say either is less or more, just to say we are not the same. Don't misunderstand.

Anyway my point is, sex is a powerful tool for some, and always will be, even if you try to remove it from the equation. That's the human species for you.

It's not always pretty, and when put up against our current global societies moral beliefs not always "right", but we are who we are, even if we sometimes forget.

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What about the objectification of men in video games? This article completely glossed over how much (and often) male game characters are objectified in homosexual pornography aimed at females. It`s just as "bad" or "good" for both sexes.

In short my point is that there is nearly as much exploitation of men in games as women, it`s just not out in the open in the mainstream games media and video games themselves.

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napalm

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Fuck you. I'll take my tits and blood just as it's been, thank you.

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Snipzor

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@ProperKROE said:

What about the objectification of men in video games? This article completely glossed over how much (and often) male game characters are objectified in homosexual pornography aimed at females. It`s just as "bad" or "good" for both sexes.

In short my point is that there is nearly as much exploitation of men in games as women, it`s just not out in the open in the mainstream games media and video games themselves.

Did someone say slashfics of Alistair and Zevran? No? Too bad. And I wouldn't say there's as much, but it's so blatantly obvious with the women that it's hard to ignore. But that's another topic.

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yukoasho

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@jakob187 said:

I don't really think his point is that women are fragile and helpless. I think it's got some multi-faceted portions to the article itself. He points out the situation with ASUS, and yeah, that was fucked. I mean, don't get me wrong - she had a great ass. Nonetheless, it still not something that a professional company should be tweeting out. At the same time, if that chick didn't want someone checking out her ass, she wouldn't be wearing what she's wearing.

But then that gets down to the whole idea of "well, if a woman dresses like a whore, treat her like a whore", which is not correct either. Women are allowed to doll themselves up, look pretty...hot...gorgeous...spectacular...bootilicious...whatever fucking word people want to throw out.

There's that thing rapists always say "well, she was begging for it". No, she fucking wasn't. You are just fucked in the head and decided to take out some primal male dominance issues that you have on someone who happened to have a female body and work up said instincts.

Oh I agree, that tweet has no place in professional discussion... Never mind that it takes away from the product. I don't think anyone's disagreeing about that.

It's interesting that you bring up the "dresses like a whore" thing that more socially-awkward men use to justify abusing women who dress a certain way. It's one of the things that makes me want to pull my fucking hair, really, and points to the hilarious double-standard regarding sexuality. Men can show off their bodies and be praised, but if I do it, I'm a whore. Wha?

The real problem with the neanderthals who look at rape victims and say "they deserved it," is that they can't understand that women dressing scantily are doing the same thing as men: showing off just how good they look because they've worked their asses off for that body. I never understood why the same god damned thing is looked at so differently when the gender of the individual is changed.

The entire idea of feminism is fucked beyond all recognition, and if anything, it's far more oppressive to men than women will ever believe that it is. Why? Because it paints every male as being some fucking pig and scoundrel that is no good. It's goddamn stupid.

Whatever happened to just labeling things as "good" and "bad" rather than everything else? When did sex and sex appeal become a bad thing?

Let's get this out of the way first. People who want to end all sex appeal aren't the majority of feminists, not even close. Most of us are more concerned with things like pay discrepancy, difficulty being promoted, being asked if the game we're buying is for our boyfriend, etc, as well as that whole hot guy/slut dichotomy I brought up earlier.

The problem is that stereotypical man-haters generate more page hits than level-headed women concerned with equality. It's all about the page hits. Of course, making a mountain out of this here molehill also helps to make people feel good, even while ignoring those larger issues.

If sex and sex appeal is such a bad thing, then I want someone to resurrect Herb Ritts and tell him to unfilm the video for Chris Isaak's "Wicked Game", because that fucker gave me a wicked boner EVERY GODDAMN TIME it was on MTV!

Oh...wait. The video for "Wicked Game" was art? Really? Seemed like a dood trying to get fucked on the beach to me!

Haha, so true. Then again, the "art" label is such a stupid thing to begin with. You ask me, the only thing that word means is that some stuffy old white guy put his stamp of approval on something in an attempt to separate it from the "inferior" works of the lower classes.

I really don't think I can keep going in this thread. If journalists don't want booth babes at their trade show, then tell the companies you won't cover them if they have booth babes. I guarantee...GUARAN-FUCKING-TEE...that there will not be a single fucking booth babe in sight at the next E3. If you can't muster up the balls to do that, then fuck off with the white knight shit, gaming journalists.

That's the problem right here. As I mentioned earlier, the ESA took the booth babes and all the bullshit away for E3 07-09 and the gaming journalists cried like spoiled children about it. The fact is that they want this shit, because not only do they get pandered to for three solid days, but they get to generate advertising revenue by looking down at those awful, awful whore booth babes.

DROPPED
DROPPED
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vinsanityv22

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You can't have this conversation without mentioning how some people are simply nerds and afraid of girls though, I'm afraid. Don't pretend like all game journalists are high and mighty. Some are just little babies with no social skills. Like those who use "Missed Connections" on Craigslist instead of actually, y'know, talking to people? Speaking of which...

The booth babes should stay, if only so we can get more hilarious (and sad) "Missed Connections" from E3 on Craigslist. Like Kotaku did: http://kotaku.com/5916952/these-guys-took-their-missed-e3-booth-babe-connections-to-craigslist

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JuggaloAcidman

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Booth babes are at every trade show ever! There are booth babes at home shows! To be fair I do live in Reno... But it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

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@Turambar: That's absurd and you know it. Patrick didn't hire those girls to dance in the video. It was a bunch of friends recording a video. Equating that to E3 is completely and utterly ridiculous. I get that you're trying to prove a point or whatever but it's not working. 
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jakob187

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@YukoAsho: /followed

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salarn

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@Nasix said:

@Salarn said:

@Anund said:

What can I tell you? I don't care about the names of game developers.

And even if I did, I wouldn't support her in this particular issue. If she feels uncomfortable because there are attractive women at E3, that is her problem, not theirs.

I <3 You.

You know nothing about her, yet decide her view on E3 should be discarded and she shouldn't attend E3 if she doesn't like the state of the industry that she works in to provide games that you enjoy.

But it is her problem, though. People shouldn't be up in arms because one person felt uncomfortable. She just felt inadequate because she has competition anxiety. It's clear that her self esteem was shot because other people looked better than she did.

Booth babes add nothing to the development of games, developers like her do. Why would someone choose to side against developers who make quality games that are enjoyed by millions over a quick bit of eye candy that has no lasting value?

It's not just her problem, she is just one of the many people who has spoken up against the use of "booth babes", she just put the issue into a personal frame. I walk around the booth babes at E3 and other conventions because they are there to distract from the games, not to sell them.

E3 should not be a 1980s Frat party, it's industry event, it should be about the showcasing of games.

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spartanman1222

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I think people need to grow up. When we get all mad at conventions and expos for allowing things that seem outrageous and horrible and blah blah blah all we are doing is shifting responsibility from ourselves, who created the problem in the first place by being perverts, to someone else. I just think it's inconsistent. Someone says we should stop this because it's right and we agree, because it is the right thing to do, but then we just go on with our lives and our actions speak differently.

Also, booth babes are people too. It's not like they have been sold into slavery, ever to sit like princess Leia in Jabba's palace.

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SupberUber

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While I choose to close the tab whenever somebody brings up "rape culture" or rape victims' "triggers", which are serious matters to be sure - it's just that I believe in choice to view and make content as the free human being that you are - I do cringe whenever I see obvious content from E3 or withing games themselves that plays heavily on sex.

Gamers that say "If I'm to spend 10 to 20 hours on a game, why not look at something nice (polygon ass) in the process?" And to bring their point home, they'll end with a ;) aka if you know what I mean

Yeah, dude, I get it. You're aroused by polygonal ass. Sex sells, etc. You're excused and free of blame, because I'd feel bad for judging such short sighted boneheads. Here, I have a game for you, you can make it in no-time: get a piece of paper, note-it size. Write "flip paper" on one side, repeat on the opposite side. Prepare an alarm as a fail-safe to not miss work or other daily duties. Follow instructions on said piece of paper.

Seriously though, trying to sell me on a piece of entertainment by means of sex - be it TV, games or magazines - more often than not offends my intelligence, as in the "what kind of brain-dead shell do they take me for?" kind of way.