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Eight Women, Eight Responses, and One Dead Island Riptide Statue

A collection of reactions to last week's questionable marketing tactic from a variety of women in the video game industry.

No Caption Provided

Deep Silver likely did not anticipate the intense reaction to its UK-specific Zombie Bait bundle for Dead Island Riptide when it was announced last week. The news came alongside other bundles for the sequel, but the Zombie Bait bundle received attention for a statue of a torn apart woman that featured nothing more than her bikini-wearing torso.

Deep Silver’s issued a questionable apology in response to the furor. The company did not discuss how this bundle even came into existence, and still hasn’t said whether it will be sold or not. One would hope not? I’ve asked the company for further clarification on that point, but as of publication, nothing has come back.

Here's the company's previous statement in full:

“We deeply apologize for any offense caused by the Dead Island Riptide “Zombie Bait Edition”, the collector’s edition announced for Europe and Australia. Like many gaming companies, Deep Silver has many offices in different countries, which is why sometimes different versions of Collector’s Editions come into being for North America, Europe, Australia, and Asia.

For the limited run of the Zombie Bait Edition for Europe and Australia, a decision was made to include a gruesome statue of a zombie torso, which was cut up like many of our fans had done to the undead enemies in the original Dead Island.

We sincerely regret this choice. We are collecting feedback continuously from the Dead Island community, as well as the international gaming community at large, for ongoing internal meetings with Deep Silver's entire international team today. For now, we want to reiterate to the community, fans and industry how deeply sorry we are, and that we are committed to making sure this will never happen again.”
No Caption Provided

The story featured my own opinion on the subject, as do most pieces of content on Giant Bomb. You might have suspected part of my response, based on previous articles I’ve filed at the site, and the reaction was along the lines of the last conversation about #1reasonwhy. When I was mulling a follow-up, I didn’t want to have the same back-and-forth, and hoped to introduce some new voices.

So, I reached out to a number of women members of the video game community, and asked them to provide their individual reactions. There are voices from everywhere in games, from development to fellow writers. I didn't specifically seek out people who had expressed an opinion about Dead Island, I just figured they had one. Some chose to speak directly to what happened, some didn't. There weren't any rules.

I’m also going to start something new here. I won't guarantee it’ll happen every time, but for big features, I want to make sure there’s a dedicated time slot for spending time responding to comments. It won’t happen until the story has been up for a little while, and people have had a chance to digest it. In this case, it’s going to be for 30 minutes at 11:30 a.m. PST. As always, anything I don’t get to can be addressed in PM, on Twitter, or through my Tumblr site.

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Rhianna Pratchett, writer (Tomb Raider, Mirror’s Edge)

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I’m both a horror fan, and a Dead Island fan. But my initial reaction to Riptide’s mutilated torso was one of shock, bewilderment and confusion. I wasn’t morally outraged. It was more a deep sigh and eye roll of “Oh come on… really? REALLY?” Yes, horror and sex have been intertwined forever, but there was something about the visual depiction of this one that was unexpectedly disgusting for a number of reasons. A mutilated corpse (of either sex) is pretty disturbing, sure. A sexed-up (and there no other way to describe the perfectly round, barely covered up and non-zombified knockers) female corpse, offered up as a reward, has particularly nasty connotations. Especially when combined with the fact that it’s described as 'bait'--a confusing title for what was apparently meant to be (according to the developers) a zombie’s torso, rather than the mutilated and cut up human torso that it actually looked like. Zombies are not normally known for the penchant to chew down on the flesh of other zombies.

I’m accustomed to game companies marketing towards men. But rarely is it quite so blatantly i.e. "Here are some tits!" It’s a mistake to ignore the legions of female gamers out there, who enjoy their zombie killing just as much as the guys. It’s an even bigger mistake to outright annoy them. Believe me, I know this. I’ve got first-hand experience of being caught-up with a video games "controversy" on Tomb Raider, and so I know that marketing and the way we speak about and depict our characters and games is important. Industry and player debate about how we go about this is also valuable.

I was glad to see Deep Silver apologising for this rather large misstep, although I was a little perplexed by the fact that they seemed to use the fact that players apparently do this in the game (or at least have the option to) as some kind of get-out-of-jail card. I’ve done some horrendous things in games. I don’t particularly want to see them immortalised in statue form.

There’s been a lot of talk about whether it would have been okay if it was a male statue. But the fact that it isn’t (and we can only really talk about what we’ve been presented with, not what we haven’t) combined with the way the torso’s been depicted, strongly suggests that the marketeers would never have done that. A sexed-up male torso (and even with a six-pack it’s not quite the same) wouldn’t have appealed to the intended audience (straight men) in the same way. If they’d wanted to keep up this mutilated torso theme then a male torso and female torso, leaning against each other in zombie-baiting harmony, would’ve been a better way to go about it. And, given that the first game had a 50/50 male to female ratio of player characters and a similar ratio in the AI, rather more in keeping with the general tone of the game.

Better still, something like AMC’s Walking Dead collector’s edition head would have been more appropriate and arguably less offensive.

Follow more of Rhianna's work at www.rhiannapratchett.com and on Twitter.

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Clarice Meadows, writer and former sales operation manager at Take-Two Interactive

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When marketing departments come up with various tchotchkes to get people to buy a video game, there are a lot of factors that come into it. Theme, desirability, originality, and more. It's a matter of making something unusual and interesting enough, and yet appropriately themed for the game, that fans will absolutely HAVE to buy it. I like to think that there are focus groups involved in the choice of object, or at the very least more than just a bunch of marketing types being locked in a room for days fueled by caffeine and junk food until they come up with an idea and are let out. Sadly, I am pretty sure the latter is usually the case. The zombie torso created specifically for Dead Island Riptide was, in my opinion, a marketing catastrophe. I've heard many responses to this particular item. From "well women don't play games anyway" to "by getting mad about it and yelling, you guys are giving this company free advertising" to "it's like a classical sculpture of antiquity, but a zombie!" So let's break this down a bit.

1) I am a woman, and I play video games. I am not particularly unusual in my gender group in choosing to play video games. I grew up in the 80s, video games were around, and I liked them. I also happen to know quite a few other women who play games, including games like Dead Island. By ignoring women as a market demographic for a video game, companies are losing out hugely. By assuming women will only buy pink, glittery items or games that are about clothing and boyfriends, these companies are losing money. By putting out a completely sexist and crass marketing ploy, they are losing money. Seriously, isn't the point of triple-A games to make scads of cash? I really don't get making choices that lead to losing it instead, can you tell?

2) By yelling about something offensive, we're making a case that offensive marketing is unacceptable. By not yelling, we're giving silent consent to continuing crappy and cheap marketing choices. And trust me, this is crappy, cheap AND lazy marketing. Oh look, a pair of boobs! How innovative! Apparently these marketers think the only people playing video games are under-sexed pubescent mole men. I mean… seriously? Lazy.

3) The last time I checked, classical sculptures did not have boob jobs. Also, the last time I checked, real boobs did not do that while in a string bikini. There's this thing called gravity… And if we're going to have an argument that this torso is not overly sexed up and has turned a live woman (or live lady zombie) into a bunch of sex organs, then… well… someone is lying to themselves. Is it appropriate? Is necrophilia really acceptable now? Because that's what this feels like it's promoting to me.

Lazy and cheap marketing ploys don't make money, they cost money in PR nightmares and hours of dancing around apologizing. It doesn't take much to be smarter, and who knows? Maybe a new market full of lots of money will open up and be willing to spend that money on video games! I mean, didn't you hear that women have jobs and make money and LOVE to spend it? Think big video game companies. Think about all that cash you're letting slide right through your fingers, and play it smarter.

Follow more of Clarice's work at Plays Like a Girl and on Twitter.

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Kate Lorimer, composer and writer

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For my part, yes, I found it offensive, it was “the straw that broke the camel’s back” (though I am sure it won't be the last such incident) after a year of dodgy marketing (Hitman, Booth Babes, Tomb Raider, Girlfriend Mode, Anita Sarkeesian). And from a personal viewpoint, even a close friend expressing his being fed up with online “outrage” and “Feminist point-scoring pandering” from game websites like Rock Paper Shotgun--his words--and his complete (and somewhat deliberate) misunderstanding of the concept of Feminism (being supposedly more about pursuing Women’s interests above male's, as opposed to actually being about equality for both genders).

Unfortunately, amongst teens and younger players in general (but as Jenny Haniver has shown, far from exclusively) there’s likely to be a kneejerk reaction backlash at the outrage and offence caused by it, as kids love a bit of blood'n'gore, and certainly amongst the heterosexual hormone fueled boys that whole “cor... boobies” thing has an attraction. See: http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/153593/yes-ah-tah

The reasons for it being offensive are obvious to the clear of thought--it's objectification at its worst. Remove the person from the body, inexplicably leaving a pubescent boy’s idea of the perfect female figure, with balloon boobs (mysteriously untouched by hungry zombie snacking) and a peek at a panty enclosed crotch--of course, hiding the vagina within--which would likely be too offensive/edgy to the same boys!

Would the situation have been mitigated had there been an alternative option of a male torso? It might have slightly balanced the equality issue, though of course there is a special obsession with boobies--especially globe-tastic ones on an itty bitty waist! But the fact that it's just a female torso they decided to go with speaks volumes about their marketing, and the usual narrow-minded targeted demographic. It might have been just as grisly but slightly more in line with the zombie ethos to have had a scary looking zombie head?

Follow more of Kate's work at K8-bit and on Twitter.

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Elizabeth DeLoria, staff writer at Gameranx and cosplay photographer

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In September last year, Jill Meagher, a 29-year-old ABC employee, went missing while walking the short walk home from a popular Melbourne street. Thanks to a somewhat viral social media campaign, the entire country began to follow the case, people everywhere wanting Jill to be found alive and well and brought home.

When she was found murdered, buried in a shallow roadside grave after being kidnapped and sexually assaulted by a complete stranger, the entire country went from hopefully to angry. Angry that someone would do this, angry that she wasn't alive and well as we'd hoped, angry that she was minding her own business in her own suburb when she was attacked. People were so angry that when the alleged killer's name leaked, social media erupted with people from every walk of life wanting his head. An entire nation was in mourning, and thousands in Melbourne marched in her honor.

I mention this because we know it's not okay to kill people. We're angered and heartbroken when women are violently murdered (and that's just the cases we hear about.) The news of Jill Meagher, as an example, was devastating to thousands that didn't even know her. Yet at the same time, we're sent these messages that sexualize, glamorize and exploit a woman's decapitated torso. That use violent murder for the purpose of sex appeal and thus profit.

When I see the same people who I saw march for Jill, whose heart sank when they heard the news of her death ask me why this torso statue is "such a big deal," I don't even know how to begin to explain to them how they've come so close to the right thing, yet they sit so far from it.

I'm not really offended, I'm just mortified at how easily we seem to forget.

Follow more of Elizabeth's work at Gameranx and on Twitter.

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Vanessa Hunter, artist and game design graduate

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We need to start at the beginning if we are to stop the pervasiveness of sexism in gaming culture, and by sticking this statue in a set that will be received by kids and young adults, Deep Silver is reinforcing an already warped attitude toward women held by the gaming community.

If this statue had been reminiscent of Venus de Milo or the statue of David, and posed in a beautiful, creative way, perhaps I could have even admired it. But as a hunk of flesh plopped into a lifeless pose and trussed up in a string bikini, I seriously have to question the thought behind it.

My main reaction to this statue, however, is that it presents a woman as a literal piece of dead meat. It beheads all personality and life and strips away individuality to present the viewer with what is simply a hunk of flesh in a gaudy bikini. This figure gets up and screams "all I am worth is to fulfill your pleasures"

To a woman like me, it's sickening because it represents how some men see real-life women every day.

From someone who has seen firsthand how a monster who holds this attitude can choke the life out of someone beautiful and radiant, this bust is a nightmare come true. And what's worse is that the attitudes behind such an object reinforce this behaviour as okay.

As for Deep Silver's "apology" placing the blame on its fan base, many of whom view them as a role model, teaching them that sexism is okay if someone else has done it before is unacceptable. They need to grow up.

Follow more of Vanesssa's work through Instagram and on Twitter.

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Anonymous

I didn't feel offended by the Dead Island bikini statue. I did, however, find it quite tiresome. I don't think that it can be denied that the statue is an obvious example of sexual objectification--a mutilated torso with perfectly untouched breasts.

Sexual objectification of women is everywhere, and it's impact is a massive discussion that goes way beyond video games. What I found most tiresome about the statue wasn't the objectification but that making a statue such as this suggests a number of things that Deep Silver assumes about their audience. They assume that the audience are young shallow men whose main interests are tits and violence. It's insulting to men and its a common assumption in video game marketing. Women are not even considered as part of the possible audience. It's outdated thinking.

I've been playing video games since I was a kid, and it's probably the main thing I do for entertainment. I have as many female friends as male who play video games. It is tiresome to be constantly excluded--and if I am included then I am considered a novelty. Women who play games are a sizable chunk of the audience and have been around for as long as video games. Objects like this statue show that we are not really considered to exist.

This individual chose not to share their personal information for fear of potential backlash.

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Melissa Cooke, writer for FemmeGamer

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Personally, I think that it's rather disgusting that Deep Silver decided to sell this. The usage of a female chest and abdomen I assume was originally used as a shock tactic to grab the eyes of the media, obviously this has worked, but what made it sexist in my eyes was the way it was dressed up and the proportions on the body.

The breasts are very unrealistic in the way they're being held up by a string bikini, not to mention that there are no wounds on the breasts, making them all the more obvious.The stomach is also very flat, and the bust looks almost anorexic, which is a very damaging image to promote.

The bust lacks also a face or any other feature that makes this bust look human, which could be interpreted as Deep Silver saying "Look this isn't a human, it's a woman, look how her breasts are positioned for your enjoyment, isn't that cool?"

Overall, this is a rather shameless grab for attention on Deep Silver's part, and all this sort of stunt does is give the non-gaming public the idea that games and the people who are playing them are immature, and push any progress the industry has made back a few more years.

Follow Melissa's work at Femme Gamer and on Twitter.

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Anna Kipnis, senior gameplay programmer at Double Fine Productions

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It's really hard to approach this topic in any kind of novel way. At this point, it's hard to bring round people who have made their minds up that feminism threatens to ruin their entertainment; to convince them that it's troubling to have games openly revel in dismembering decomposing women in bikinis. Yet I don't believe in censorship, either. Personally, I push this sort of thing into the same category in my brain as boob mugs (which I respect more for at least cutting to the chase and showing actual nudity). I'm not sure why someone would want a headless, bloody, dismembered corpse of a woman's upper torso, with grotesquely fake boobs obscured by a sadly implicated union jack proudly displayed on their mantle, but they're not a person I can imagine seeing eye-to-eye with on many things.

I honestly believe you can have sexiness and violence in games, even at the same time, if that's what you want. I can't think of a great example of a game that has done this particularly well (no doubt there is one), but there are many examples in film. For instance, Quentin Tarantino has made plenty of movies over the years that feature sexy women in violent situations. Even women getting dismembered (Kill Bill Volume 1, Death Proof), and yet it's never felt sexist or misogynist to me. I walk away from the theater generally thinking of those women as role models, not victims.

I think it's on us, game developers, to prevent controversies like this one. I'm a game programmer and I would be pretty bummed if I was working on what was essentially a game equivalent of a boob mug. You're appealing to the lowest, most vulgar aspects of your audience at a time when games are widely criticized for being juvenile, senseless, and immature, only to then complain that the medium is not being taken seriously as an art form. We should strive to treat our medium with the respect it deserves.

Follow Anna's work at Double Fine Productions and on Twitter.

Patrick Klepek on Google+

2527 Comments

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Garrador

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Edited By Garrador

So the only person who gets it is the girl who decided to stay anonymous. I want to say Anna Kipnis gets it as well, except for the part where she forgets Dead Island allows you to chop up perfectly buffed up macho guys, aka the stereotype for what is supposed to be the perfect look for men. Everything else she said was dead on. Its stupid, tacky, and dumb.

I wish everyone would stop giving this statue more value then it is actually worth. Its tacky, ugly and completely dumb. Stop giving them free PR on every video game website on the internet.

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SleepyDoughnut

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Edited By SleepyDoughnut

Why the fuck is everyone so up in arms about this? Specifically I'm referring to this comment thread. I did not expect 2000 comments. I think Claire Meadows had the best response. Regardless whether you're offended or not, it's simply poor form, but come on it's not the end of the world.

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kartanaold

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Edited By kartanaold

@Zornack said:

Huh, thought I clicked a giantbomb link. How'd I end up on Kotaku?

Not a single opinion that it's simply a stupid statue no one gives a fuck about, just eight paragraphs about how hateful, sexist and misogynistic the video game industry is.

Quality journalism.

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Harknett

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Edited By Harknett

I would imagine that an article full of hyperbole and a main page picture of the statue was exactly how Deep Silver was hoping this would play out. The response to the statue says more about how far we have to go until any sort of true gender equality in the video games world than the statue itself ever could.

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ThaKakarot

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Edited By ThaKakarot

ahaha patrick you're the reason i'm going to take giantbomb out of my adblock filter.

"I think the statue was gross simply because it was a human torso. This article was simply extended posts from women who had tweeted their disapproval. There are no contrary opinions from either men or other women. It offers nothing new and is just patting oneself on the back."
"This just screams "I needed justification for my outrage so I gathered up a handful of women's responses and regurgitated it on my LiveJour- I mean Giantbomb's front page.""

"Well if I wanna learn more about the topic, I'd much prefer having articles that tackle both sides of the coin, and aren't sensationalist.

Why isn't there at least one argument that's from the other side of the statue debacle in this article? I'm sure myself and others would like to hear from the other side as well."

etc. etc.

Faux-journalism at its best.

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AndyAce83

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Edited By AndyAce83

I aint morally outraged by this article on GiantBomb. It´s more a deep sigh and eye roll of “Oh come on… really? REALLY?”

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jimmyfenix

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Edited By jimmyfenix

@Kartana said:

@Zornack said:

Huh, thought I clicked a giantbomb link. How'd I end up on Kotaku?

Not a single opinion that it's simply a stupid statue no one gives a fuck about, just eight paragraphs about how hateful, sexist and misogynistic the video game industry is.

Quality journalism.

yup

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Ravenlight

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Edited By Ravenlight

@AlexW00d said:

I mean, there's not a single person, male or female, out there who saw this statue and thought "Oooh sexy lady torso zombie thing"

...

I actually kinda thought that. The rest of the thought was "That's so dumb and tacky. I want to own it because it is in hilariously poor taste."

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EnduranceFun

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Edited By EnduranceFun

What I take from the response here is that most thought this was a non-issue or gross exaggeration, while a minority thought it was a good article or reactively focused on the criticism. Not sure what PK can take from this disaster, but I am sensing a growing tide of anti-Giant Bomb sentiment progressively growing out of every misfired political article.

I agree with Gaben on reputation. You build it up and every bad thing you do wears it down, and these repeated articles are slowly making the site as a whole look like more of a joke, whether it's deserved or not. This is bad when the site's main 'selling point' is its quality content.

Not that PK will listen. Which is a huge part of the problem.

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EastboundSpider

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Edited By EastboundSpider

i am a young white male and i don't feel offended, i don't hate females but

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SomeJerk

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Edited By SomeJerk

Yo if you think nobody on the planet will find that torso sexy you are blessed, the world is a scary place filled with fucked up people.

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Dunchad

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Edited By Dunchad

The ironic thing is, it's probably thanks to the multitudes of people commenting on this "story" how they hate it, that we will get similar articles in the future.

These articles seems to be the most popular, or at least most commented, of any that have appeared on GB. All these clicks or traffic or whatever bringing in all them monies. The advertising department probably has a framed picture of Klepek on their wall. :)

As for the issue at hand. Meh. The statue is stupid and the response could be seen from miles away. But I think Kipnis has a good way of looking at it.

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EnduranceFun

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Edited By EnduranceFun

@Dunchad said:

The advertising department probably has a framed picture of Klepek on their wall. :)

Yeah, the Deep Silver advertising department loves PK. Ultimately getting more clicks only gets you so far, though, and that was never the stated purpose of these articles. This is not really the type of the site that benefits from clickbait anyway, its value comes mainly from the subscriptions and unique user base.

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shiggity_shwa

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Edited By shiggity_shwa

@alibson: Women want equality, and don't like being portrayed as headless, limbless, fake tittied sluts being offered up as zombie bait, for the sole purpose of marketing.

Pretty "extreme propaganda"...

And PS: Go fuck yourself, because no woman will, as long as you have mutilated female torsos on your mantle. Enjoy beating off to a disgusting plastic statue, you stain on humanity.

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BeautifulSpaceCowboy

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Nice presentation of several different opinions from women in the industry. Thanks for the write up. Also, I like the idea of you setting aside time for Q&A; I hope you keep it up.

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myslead

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Edited By myslead

I didn't even have to look at the author of the post

I knew just by reading the title that it was going to be a cheesy knight in shining armour patrick post.

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embryonic

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Edited By embryonic

@asantosbr: They gave Marcus his own show? Huh. I guess I have a reason to visit GT now.

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mordukai

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Edited By mordukai

I can't help but see Patrick sitting at his desk watching at the view and the comments number keeps growing and growing and smirking and thinking to himself "Yup! Job well done."

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selbie

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Edited By selbie

Well you know Deep Silver is run by Koch Media....

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EastboundSpider

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Edited By EastboundSpider

You see here a clear case of regression with a hint of the oedipus complex in the subjects, often projecting their own insecurity into a obsessive hobby called "Video Games" trying to create a safe (womb-like) enviroment. Quite interesting.

In the next cell...

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Ravenlight

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Edited By Ravenlight

@Missacre said:

Supah_Ted said:

First, if you self entitled assholes do not like Patricks articles, then do not read them. Go to another site if you think GB is such a shithole. Do not comment with what you want. Go elsewhere, or hell, go make your own website and then you can control what articles are posted.

Now on topic: At first i did not think it was sexist as i thought the outrage was soley about the fact it was a woman who had violence done to her(as you can do in the game, but i never heard anyone complain about that), I completely looked past the fact it is what many would consider to be a perfect torso and boobs in a string bikini, as a bonus to try and sell mo0re copys to dumb ass man childs, who lets face it, will never be able to touch boobs irl and deep silver had far more to gain from increased sales to said man childs than they had to lose by creeping out potential female customers.

Its gross and blatant and im glad these 8 women gave their opinion and in turn chagned mine.

Patrick Klepek, thank you for your constant quility articles. Just ignore the haters and keep up the good work.

Oh boo-fucking-hoo. You didn't like the statue? Don't fucking look at it. Simple as that. Also, what's with calling people "man childs?" You actually think you're above people just because you're bitching about a fucking toy and they're not? Dude, I'm female, and I'm not as much of a pussy as you are. You don't like the statue, don't look at it. I, for one, am buying it if it does become available. You just gave me another reason to buy it.

Probably my favorite response in this whole thread.

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rabbithearted

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Edited By rabbithearted

I love how people are annoyed that Patrick did an article about female responses to something in video games that is obviously alienating or concerning to women. /sarcasm

Seriously, this isn't a piece of hard-hitting journalism examining the issue from both sides, and I don't think Patrick was trying to have it be that. It's a piece meant to localize and bring some sort of understanding to why women (and others) are upset about such a tackless display. These things happen in journalism. Just because it's a soft news story doesn't mean it's not worthy. Would it be interesting to see a neutral, well-researched story on the subject? Sure, but since when has Giant Bomb been that sort of website?

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megatronicles

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Edited By megatronicles

Keep on reducing the quality of this website to a sensationalist tabloid Patrick, great work!

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@EnduranceFun: Wow because what I took from it was that gaming's "core" audience (the type who care enough to post on video game websites) are still by and large complete self centered pieces of shit who whine about thinking at all critically about their hobby/community/the media they consume and don't give a shit about anyone else while completely lacking even the basics of empathy for understanding why someone might not be okay with endemic sexism because gaming is totally my escapist fun time so don't say bad things about it or else. It's totally weird how you with your consistently awful opinions on any social issues didn't notice that at all. Huh, weird.

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shiggity_shwa

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I created a GB account just to comment on this article. Or, more specifically, to comment on the comments. Scrolling through the comment section of this article filled me with such outrage, sadness, and hopelessness. This is simply an article for interested people to read (In other words, if you're not interested, don't read the damned article! No one is forcing "feminist propaganda" down your throat). The fact that the mere mention of sexism in gaming releases such hatred and patriarcal nonsense is proof positive that it's still a pervasive, important issue that really needs to be discussed.

As a man, it's easy for me to ignore sexism, and play off articles such as this as useless, because I'm not a victim of sexism (outside of companies like Deep Silver forming the lowest possible opinion of my intelligence). But as a human being, I simply cannot accept this kind of medieval mentality in a modern, supposedly 'enlightened' society.

If the idea of women being treated equally, and not being constantly represented as lifeless, sexed up husks, is so irritating to you that you have to release your vitriolic hatred on articles such as this, then you really should try saying some of these awful opinions to women's faces. See how far you get in life, being a half retarded, back woods, inbred, loser of a caveman, grunting at boobs and filling your home with plastic, mutilated torsos.

I'm ashamed of the gaming community. I'm ashamed of my gender. I'm ashamed that women are STILL entangled in a battle of inches, when it comes to equality. Keep your hatred in your parents' basement, and out of the civilized world. We'd all like to move on, and assholes like the ones commenting on this article, are the reason intelligent, enlightened people are stuck in the mud. Women are equal. Women have opinions. Women play games. Women are not treated equally in any part of the gaming industry, from creator, to consumer. You can try to refuse these realities, but it'll more than likely lead to a lonely, sad, pathetic existence. Have fun with that!

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Voysa_Reezun

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@ginsuscorpion said:

@Nettacki: @Nettacki said:

@biggest_loser said:

@Kraznor: "I am perplexed by the outrage around this post?" I've been wondering for a long time why gamers are so terrified by the word Feminism. The way its thrown around is so senseless. Its this school boy attitude that Feminism is this horrible thing when they don't know anything about it. Its also a result of gamers being overly defensive about any commentary on the medium (on gender, violence or whatever). Suddenly if a woman voices something 'Omg! She's a hairy feminist!' Unfortunately, this whole story has captured both attitudes and why we have over thousand posts here. Expect over the next years a large division between those who want gaming to move forward and those who want to uphold this 'fuck the world' attitude. I know which one I prefer. It can't come soon enough.

As others have said before, people aren't afraid of regular feminism, but rather the really extreme form of feminism that demands that women have more rights than men and should dominate the world.

Some folks seem to have a negative attitude towards feminism in a manner that is similar to how black power is often negatively viewed. It seems that for many its a simple misunderstanding and in many cases a lack of knowledge of the past albeit an understandable lack of knowledge of the past. Once people understand the feminism movement and to the same extent black power movement many people will understand how positive and very important these movements have been and continue to be in the world.

Eh, movements change. The feminist movement certainly has changed, and first- and second-wave feminism had different goals in some cases from third-wave feminism.

I'll deal with your idea of "black power" movements since I am black. I think that there is still institutionalized racism, but I don't think that the NAACP, for example, is particularly relevant anymore. Whatever movement there is has to change with the times. There is this book called "Disintegration: The Splintering of Black America" that indicates how black America as a "community" doesn't exist anymore, and movements must change to deal with that reality.

I think that the best way to talk about rights at this point is in the scope of overall human rights, and that includes for privileged white males. You see that if they are excluded from the conversation, they get offended, close-minded, and a little silly sometimes: "Why can't *I* say the n-word, but black people *can*?" It's an understandable reaction to being excluded.

Inclusiveness would solve a lot of our problems.

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EnduranceFun

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@Zetetic_Elench: That long of a post and you have no point. Impressive.

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Paindamnation

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@SleepyDoughnut said:

Why the fuck is everyone so up in arms about this? Specifically I'm referring to this comment thread. I did not expect 2000 comments. I think Claire Meadows had the best response. Regardless whether you're offended or not, it's simply poor form, but come on it's not the end of the world.

People will bitch about anything. Especially tits.@Ravenlight said:


said:

Supah_Ted said:

First, if you self entitled assholes do not like Patricks articles, then do not read them. Go to another site if you think GB is such a shithole. Do not comment with what you want. Go elsewhere, or hell, go make your own website and then you can control what articles are posted.

Now on topic: At first i did not think it was sexist as i thought the outrage was soley about the fact it was a woman who had violence done to her(as you can do in the game, but i never heard anyone complain about that), I completely looked past the fact it is what many would consider to be a perfect torso and boobs in a string bikini, as a bonus to try and sell mo0re copys to dumb ass man childs, who lets face it, will never be able to touch boobs irl and deep silver had far more to gain from increased sales to said man childs than they had to lose by creeping out potential female customers.

Its gross and blatant and im glad these 8 women gave their opinion and in turn chagned mine.

Patrick Klepek, thank you for your constant quility articles. Just ignore the haters and keep up the good work.

Oh boo-fucking-hoo. You didn't like the statue? Don't fucking look at it. Simple as that. Also, what's with calling people "man childs?" You actually think you're above people just because you're bitching about a fucking toy and they're not? Dude, I'm female, and I'm not as much of a pussy as you are. You don't like the statue, don't look at it. I, for one, am buying it if it does become available. You just gave me another reason to buy it.

Probably my favorite response in this whole thread.

See. Chicks can be bad ass too. I just keep riding the RipTide so to speak

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LikeaSsur

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@finnith: Allow me to catch you up to speed, and say that my post was completely blown out of proportion, which is surprising, because that sort of thing never happens in threads like these.

Regardless of what was said in the article, it was boring to read, because every woman said the same thing. Patrick didn't add anything to the discussion, and I'm afraid to call it even that, because there's no acknowledgment of the other side (when there clearly is one). That was my point.

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asantosbr

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@Embryonic
Yes, they gave Marcus his own sh@Embryonic said:

@asantosbr: They gave Marcus his own show? Huh. I guess I have a reason to visit GT now.

Yaeh, not only that, but with Shane now gone, Marcus is probably going be the main host on Invisible Walls.
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asantosbr

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@Ravenlight said:

@Missacre said:

Supah_Ted said:

First, if you self entitled assholes do not like Patricks articles, then do not read them. Go to another site if you think GB is such a shithole. Do not comment with what you want. Go elsewhere, or hell, go make your own website and then you can control what articles are posted.

Now on topic: At first i did not think it was sexist as i thought the outrage was soley about the fact it was a woman who had violence done to her(as you can do in the game, but i never heard anyone complain about that), I completely looked past the fact it is what many would consider to be a perfect torso and boobs in a string bikini, as a bonus to try and sell mo0re copys to dumb ass man childs, who lets face it, will never be able to touch boobs irl and deep silver had far more to gain from increased sales to said man childs than they had to lose by creeping out potential female customers.

Its gross and blatant and im glad these 8 women gave their opinion and in turn chagned mine.

Patrick Klepek, thank you for your constant quility articles. Just ignore the haters and keep up the good work.

Oh boo-fucking-hoo. You didn't like the statue? Don't fucking look at it. Simple as that. Also, what's with calling people "man childs?" You actually think you're above people just because you're bitching about a fucking toy and they're not? Dude, I'm female, and I'm not as much of a pussy as you are. You don't like the statue, don't look at it. I, for one, am buying it if it does become available. You just gave me another reason to buy it.

Probably my favorite response in this whole thread.

I think after Missacre comment we can pretty much close this discussion thread and move on.....
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firecracker22

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@Anund said:

@Hobosunday said:

Doesn't Patrick know this is a website about VIDEO GAMES?!

But seriously, anyone who thinks this is a good idea should wonder if it's okay if they decided to sell a man's bloody torso with a humongous bulge in a union jack speedo and sculpted to god-like perfection.

You probably wouldn't think it's a good idea.

You probably would think it was dumb and pointless.

You probably would never put it in your room and feel proud about it.

You might even get angry, saying that this was a real dumb move on the developer's part.

But you think this bloody woman torso was not?

I think the torso was all those things. But I didn't think it was sexist.

I agree.

I could be sold on the violence argument. I'm just not getting the sexism one.

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Darji

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@shiggity_shwa said:

I created a GB account just to comment on this article. Or, more specifically, to comment on the comments. Scrolling through the comment section of this article filled me with such outrage, sadness, and hopelessness. This is simply an article for interested people to read (In other words, if you're not interested, don't read the damned article! No one is forcing "feminist propaganda" down your throat). The fact that the mere mention of sexism in gaming releases such hatred and patriarcal nonsense is proof positive that it's still a pervasive, important issue that really needs to be discussed.

As a man, it's easy for me to ignore sexism, and play off articles such as this as useless, because I'm not a victim of sexism (outside of companies like Deep Silver forming the lowest possible opinion of my intelligence). But as a human being, I simply cannot accept this kind of medieval mentality in a modern, supposedly 'enlightened' society.

If the idea of women being treated equally, and not being constantly represented as lifeless, sexed up husks, is so irritating to you that you have to release your vitriolic hatred on articles such as this, then you really should try saying some of these awful opinions to women's faces. See how far you get in life, being a half retarded, back woods, inbred, loser of a caveman, grunting at boobs and filling your home with plastic, mutilated torsos.

I'm ashamed of the gaming community. I'm ashamed of my gender. I'm ashamed that women are STILL entangled in a battle of inches, when it comes to equality. Keep your hatred in your parents' basement, and out of the civilized world. We'd all like to move on, and assholes like the ones commenting on this article, are the reason intelligent, enlightened people are stuck in the mud. Women are equal. Women have opinions. Women play games. Women are not treated equally in any part of the gaming industry, from creator, to consumer. You can try to refuse these realities, but it'll more than likely lead to a lonely, sad, pathetic existence. Have fun with that!

The problem is they are not... Woman today have far far more benefits than a man ever could have. For example child custody It does not even matter if the woman is an "asshole" to her child and does not care about it. If she wants the rights she will get it and with it she will get a lot of money. Same case with Jobs and employment rates. People now need to hire woman to fill a quote and it does not even matter if they are worse than the actual man that is also applying for this job. Why don't we have these quotes in female dominated jobs? Like in an hospital for example?And these are just a 2 examples of many many benefits woman have compared to man.

As long as people have benefits we will never archive any form of equality because someone will always be special treated. Same goes for racial benefits. As long these exist people will have have a set mind how woman are different from man or how black people are different from white people.

Back at the start of these groups it was the right thing to do but now we are not on this level anymore but as long as we always get in our face that woman and man or black and white people are different or need special care and attention we will archive NOTHING.

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I love me some titties and porn and strippers. But that statue is a bit fucking offensive. I'm not speaking specifically about the big ass tits, its the fact that its a woman's torso with the head and arms chopped off. It's fucking cruel, barbaric imagery of women yo. It oozes, "women are fucking meat and nothing more", and that's insulting and demeaning. We gotta get outta that state of mind mutha fuckas.

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TheFreepie

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This article got de-railed to bad, bad places. Lets get back to talking about how stupid Dead Silver is, nobody will argue against that right?

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@Darji:

because apparently it's only possible to objectify women.

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@FancySoapsMan said:

@Darji:

because apparently it's only possible to objectify women.

Yeah...

That is the biggest problem why I do not like feminists. If you want equality i will fully support and respect that but if you want that you need to do that for both gender not one. Sexism is not a female problem it is a society problem and the society does not consist of only women but also men.

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@Darji: Are you saying that the only way to achieve equality is to ignore the fact that inequality exists?

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I'm quite surprised by the amount of hatred this article is getting. Great article, Patrick, and keep up the good work.

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shiggity_shwa

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@Darji said:

@shiggity_shwa said:

I created a GB account just to comment on this article. Or, more specifically, to comment on the comments. Scrolling through the comment section of this article filled me with such outrage, sadness, and hopelessness. This is simply an article for interested people to read (In other words, if you're not interested, don't read the damned article! No one is forcing "feminist propaganda" down your throat). The fact that the mere mention of sexism in gaming releases such hatred and patriarcal nonsense is proof positive that it's still a pervasive, important issue that really needs to be discussed.

As a man, it's easy for me to ignore sexism, and play off articles such as this as useless, because I'm not a victim of sexism (outside of companies like Deep Silver forming the lowest possible opinion of my intelligence). But as a human being, I simply cannot accept this kind of medieval mentality in a modern, supposedly 'enlightened' society.

If the idea of women being treated equally, and not being constantly represented as lifeless, sexed up husks, is so irritating to you that you have to release your vitriolic hatred on articles such as this, then you really should try saying some of these awful opinions to women's faces. See how far you get in life, being a half retarded, back woods, inbred, loser of a caveman, grunting at boobs and filling your home with plastic, mutilated torsos.

I'm ashamed of the gaming community. I'm ashamed of my gender. I'm ashamed that women are STILL entangled in a battle of inches, when it comes to equality. Keep your hatred in your parents' basement, and out of the civilized world. We'd all like to move on, and assholes like the ones commenting on this article, are the reason intelligent, enlightened people are stuck in the mud. Women are equal. Women have opinions. Women play games. Women are not treated equally in any part of the gaming industry, from creator, to consumer. You can try to refuse these realities, but it'll more than likely lead to a lonely, sad, pathetic existence. Have fun with that!

The problem is they are not... Woman today have far far more benefits than a man ever could have. For example child custody It does not even matter if the woman is an "asshole" to her child and does not care about it. If she wants the rights she will get it and with it she will get a lot of money. Same case with Jobs and employment rates. People now need to hire woman to fill a quote and it does not even matter if they are worse than the actual man that is also applying for this job. Why don't we have these quotes in female dominated jobs? Like in an hospital for example?And these are just a 2 examples of many many benefits woman have compared to man.

As long as people have benefits we will never archive any form of equality because someone will always be special treated. Same goes for racial benefits. As long these exist people will have have a set mind how woman are different from man or how black people are different from white people.

Back at the start of these groups it was the right thing to do but now we are not on this level anymore but as long as we always get in our face that woman and man or black and white people are different or need special care and attention we will archive NOTHING.

Thank you for reinforcing my arguments.

Women are given child custody because of patriarcal beliefs that they are natural caregivers, and more accustomed to child rearing, by their very nature. This isn't because of anti-male beliefs, so much as the assumption that women are here only to raise children. It's also worth nothing the vast majority of judges are male, which helps add to these verdicts.

There are no numbers, ANYWHERE, that suggest women are getting more jobs than men. There are, however, lots and lots of numbers that show women are still woefully underpaid for the work they do (as well as shamefully common sexual harassment in the workplace). There is not one single piece of legislature that forces employers to hire a certain number of women/minorities. Go ahead and look. There's nothing, Anywhere. On the planet. At all. There ARE equal employment companies, who can make the decision ON THEIR OWN to help employ women and minorities, because white men do not have the same issues getting jobs that others do.

Hospitals have primarily female employees because women are, again, presumed to be natural caregivers, so they get nursing jobs. However, the VAST majority of doctors, surgeons, board members, directors, and other higher up/higher paid positions are male. So there goes that part of your argument...

You are displaying typical patriarcal arguments, based solely on ignorance and a place of entitlement. You are saying things are better, even FINE, based on nothing. You display zero facts, zero numbers, zero studies, absolutely NOTHING to back up your arguments. You are just sick of hearing about this stuff, because, really, things SHOULD be better/fine/perfect by now. It's INSANE that things are still so bad. So you should check your facts, take a deep breath, and try putting yourself in someone else's shoes.

This all goes without mentioning the fact that between 20 and 25 percent of North American women suffer sexual abuse at the hands of a man. This all goes without saying that the Republican party is actively trying to take reproductive rights back to the 19th century. This all goes without saying that the most common cause of death in American women is spousal abuse, leading to death.

Open your eyes. The world ain't what you think it is...

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thornie

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How about the guys put things to a vote. Make a poll -- Do you like these kinds of articles on the site? Yes or No? Whatever the results are, people need to accept or shut the fuck up and go elsewhere. End of story.

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jediautobot

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Great article Patrick. I thought the responses were well thought out and got their point across. It's sad to see so many people treating this like it's not an issue tho'.

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@shiggity_shwa said:

@Darji said:

@shiggity_shwa said:

I created a GB account just to comment on this article. Or, more specifically, to comment on the comments. Scrolling through the comment section of this article filled me with such outrage, sadness, and hopelessness. This is simply an article for interested people to read (In other words, if you're not interested, don't read the damned article! No one is forcing "feminist propaganda" down your throat). The fact that the mere mention of sexism in gaming releases such hatred and patriarcal nonsense is proof positive that it's still a pervasive, important issue that really needs to be discussed.

As a man, it's easy for me to ignore sexism, and play off articles such as this as useless, because I'm not a victim of sexism (outside of companies like Deep Silver forming the lowest possible opinion of my intelligence). But as a human being, I simply cannot accept this kind of medieval mentality in a modern, supposedly 'enlightened' society.

If the idea of women being treated equally, and not being constantly represented as lifeless, sexed up husks, is so irritating to you that you have to release your vitriolic hatred on articles such as this, then you really should try saying some of these awful opinions to women's faces. See how far you get in life, being a half retarded, back woods, inbred, loser of a caveman, grunting at boobs and filling your home with plastic, mutilated torsos.

I'm ashamed of the gaming community. I'm ashamed of my gender. I'm ashamed that women are STILL entangled in a battle of inches, when it comes to equality. Keep your hatred in your parents' basement, and out of the civilized world. We'd all like to move on, and assholes like the ones commenting on this article, are the reason intelligent, enlightened people are stuck in the mud. Women are equal. Women have opinions. Women play games. Women are not treated equally in any part of the gaming industry, from creator, to consumer. You can try to refuse these realities, but it'll more than likely lead to a lonely, sad, pathetic existence. Have fun with that!

The problem is they are not... Woman today have far far more benefits than a man ever could have. For example child custody It does not even matter if the woman is an "asshole" to her child and does not care about it. If she wants the rights she will get it and with it she will get a lot of money. Same case with Jobs and employment rates. People now need to hire woman to fill a quote and it does not even matter if they are worse than the actual man that is also applying for this job. Why don't we have these quotes in female dominated jobs? Like in an hospital for example?And these are just a 2 examples of many many benefits woman have compared to man.

As long as people have benefits we will never archive any form of equality because someone will always be special treated. Same goes for racial benefits. As long these exist people will have have a set mind how woman are different from man or how black people are different from white people.

Back at the start of these groups it was the right thing to do but now we are not on this level anymore but as long as we always get in our face that woman and man or black and white people are different or need special care and attention we will archive NOTHING.

Thank you for reinforcing my arguments.

Women are given child custody because of patriarcal beliefs that they are natural caregivers, and more accustomed to child rearing, by their very nature. This isn't because of anti-male beliefs, so much as the assumption that women are here only to raise children. It's also worth nothing the vast majority of judges are male, which helps add to these verdicts.

There are no numbers, ANYWHERE, that suggest women are getting more jobs than men. There are, however, lots and lots of numbers that show women are still woefully underpaid for the work they do (as well as shamefully common sexual harassment in the workplace). There is not one single piece of legislature that forces employers to hire a certain number of women/minorities. Go ahead and look. There's nothing, Anywhere. On the planet. At all. There ARE equal employment companies, who can make the decision ON THEIR OWN to help employ women and minorities, because white men do not have the same issues getting jobs that others do.

Hospitals have primarily female employees because women are, again, presumed to be natural caregivers, so they get nursing jobs. However, the VAST majority of doctors, surgeons, board members, directors, and other higher up/higher paid positions are male. So there goes that part of your argument...

You are displaying typical patriarcal arguments, based solely on ignorance and a place of entitlement. You are saying things are better, even FINE, based on nothing. You display zero facts, zero numbers, zero studies, absolutely NOTHING to back up your arguments. You are just sick of hearing about this stuff, because, really, things SHOULD be better/fine/perfect by now. It's INSANE that things are still so bad. So you should check your facts, take a deep breath, and try putting yourself in someone else's shoes.

This all goes without mentioning the fact that between 20 and 25 percent of North American women suffer sexual abuse at the hands of a man. This all goes without saying that the Republican party is actively trying to take reproductive rights back to the 19th century. This all goes without saying that the most common cause of death in American women is spousal abuse, leading to death.

Open your eyes. The world ain't what you think it is...

Woman even get the custody of a child even if they dont care about the child and even if the child has a much stronger bond to the father. Even if they just want the money. All this patriarcal bullshit is stupid as hell. It should all benefit the child and if the woman is just I am sorry for this description: Lousy golddigger that just wants the kid because she is getting money through that than the whole system is a total failure: And these cases are not rare.

Job: So why get woman the benefit of a natural caregiver and men not the benefit of being the better businessmen? Again because of this patriarcal bullshit. Men can be as good as woman in this regard. If they are fitted for the job they should get tthe same chances.

Also you want numbers? Go to a university and there visit a library and read thesis after thesis about this topic. You dont really expect me here in a gaming forum to show you evidence how this patriarcal bullshit is just part of the problem?

Stop treating people different. Stop giving people benefits: Stop teaching your child that woman are special and that they need special treatment. because they do not. Stop saying never hit a woman. Start saying NEVER HIT ANYONE.

Also I am not saying to stop caring about domestic violence but stop only care about domestic Violence against woman. Go against any form of domestic Violence and it DOES NOT matter if the there is a higher percentage of woman that suffer from it. EVERY PERCENT is Wrong. EVERY SEXUAL ABUSE is wrong.

As long you try to make woman a special case nothing will ever change.

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mozzle

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Edited By mozzle

Hey Patrick, thanks for posting this. It was an interesting read. Even though I don't agree with what some of the Ladys said, I do appreciate knowing where other people stand on big issues like this one.

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Comments sections are basically the debate club for assholes.

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syzygyeolith

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Edited By syzygyeolith

I have to admit, I never saw this collectors edition thing as anything other than just tacky garbage - just like the other dust collecting junk you get with any other game. The fact it was a womans torso didn't even register to me till apparently getting upset about it became a thing people do.

Did the marketing team make a mistake on this one? I don't know.. it didn't really change my opinion on collectors editions. Is it inappropriate? I don't really know either.. I mean.. it's a game where half the people you dismember are women.. so maybe it's half-inappropriate? Did I see the statue as a pair of tits? No.. not really either. I just saw some zombie related schlock.

So I suppose after all that, all I can say is I think while women have legitimate things to complain about with this particular form of entertainment, this example is at best taken out of context (and not worth complaining about), and at worst, naff garbage that is all going to eventually be thrown out and into landfill one day (and is worth complaining about for environmental reasons).

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@Skeezard said:

Patrick is the Britta of the GiantBomb crew

That's follow worthy.

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toowalrus

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@TheSouthernDandy said:

@TooWalrus said:

@patrickklepek: Well, it's east coast midnight, I've only just got home from work, and it's 2,000 comments later, but I'd still like to throw in my two cents. This was a welcome change from your past few articles on this topic. It's cool to hear what women in the business have to say about sexism in the gaming industry- and hopefully even the biggest assholes in this thread wouldn't deny that the problem does, at least, exist. In this case, I can definitely understand the sexist undertones in this 'marketing tool.' There are really only two points I'd like you to consider, and this is just my opinion, and I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job or anything, these are just personal suggestions:

  • First, I do feel like this particular incident has been blown out of proportion. What I mean is, this problem is industry wide, right? I think it would have been more compelling if you'd composite several instances of sexism in the industry, and presented it as a whole. I don't feel like it's right to dog-pile on Deep Silver if this issue runs so deep- especially since this statue could be potentially offensive for a few other reasons as well.
  • Second, I'd just appreciate if you'd expand a little more about why you believe what you do. The issue that comes to mind is the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer, which you've called 'disgusting,' without really explaining why. I watched the trailer again, and the only real sexism issue I could imagine someone having is the manner in which they cyborg is dressed. Most girls I know personally wear swimsuits that show more skin that the cyborg lady, so when you imply that merely showing skin is sexist, I start to wonder where you draw the line between acceptable and sexist. I think that's what's leading some people to compare you with fundamental Muslims demanding every women be covered with a burqa, or digging up past actions to try to point out hypocrisy of some sort.

Nice post duder. Not saying I agree or disagree, just sayin nice post.

@mrfluke said:

quoting this up, cause i agree

Oh, thanks guys. I was pretty pleased when reading through the comments this morning to find that very few of the users I respect the most had fallen onto the mindless hate train.

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Evilsbane

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@Nettacki said:

@Evilsbane said:

Honestly the tone and harshness and content of many of these comments tells me there is an issue if just discussing it makes this many people deny its a problem when there is a very large group saying there is...wtf...

It's an issue worth discussing. Just not here in this site.

You..mean on the site about...video games? This is a bundle with..a video game...I agree the conversation isn't going anywhere and this thing is just dumb, but there are enough people with a problem where I think just getting pissy about an article from the guy on the site who writes articles about something that is COMPLETELY related to video games on a Site About Video Games is a little hilarious honestly