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When It's Over, It's Over

Mass Effect 3's ending has sparked an enormous debate, one that highlights the problem with endings, the role of creators, and what it means to be a fan.

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(Note: This article does not contain spoilers for the endings of Mass Effect 3, Lost or The Sopranos).

Suddenly, a bright light appears, and it’s all over. After years of investment and hours of discussion with friends, just a few minutes of credits later, it’s like it never happened.

Whether it’s putting the the Island to rest during the series finale of Lost or witnessing the final moments of Commander Shepard’s fight against the Reapers in Mass Effect 3, endings have seemingly impossible tasks.

Mass Effect 3 has only been out for two weeks. Most players haven’t seen how the trilogy ends, but players who've already made it back to Earth have awfully strong opinions about how BioWare chose to take a bow.

BioWare chose to break its silence yesterday in a blog post by BioWare co-founder Ray Muzyka. The Mass Effect 3 team is listening to player feedback, Muzyka explained, and more details would be available in April. At no point did Muzyka announce the ending to Mass Effect 3 would see alterations, and Muzyka contends BioWare will maintain the “integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback.”

Lost, just like Mass Effect, relied on dramatic tension to be fulfilled in each's final moments.
Lost, just like Mass Effect, relied on dramatic tension to be fulfilled in each's final moments.

“Endings often just can’t win,” said Entertainment Weekly senior writer, game player and once regular Lost columnist Jeff Jensen to me recently. “Most screenwriters will tell you the hardest part of any movie, any story to tell, is just the end. It’s the thing that changes the most, it’s the endings that are the most fought over among collaborators. They’re the things that are just the hardest to land.”

Retake Mass Effect is a petition by fans asking BioWare to provide alternate endings to Mass Effect 3 that, in their eyes, better represents the choices made by players across all three games, explains the final, twisty, head-scratching moments, includes a “heroic” finish in line with the series’ themes of success against incredible odds, and much more. To make their point, Retake Mass Effect has raised $77,514 for the Child’s Play charity.

“We would like to dispel the perception that we are angry or entitled,” reads a statement on Retake Mass Effect. “We simply wish to express our hope that there could be a different direction for a series we have all grown to love.”

Other fans, like Spike Murphy in California, went a step further. Murphy filed a false advertising complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Better Business Bureau (BBB). You can read Murphy’s BBB filing here, in which he contends BioWare and Electronic Arts mislead the public about what would be in Mass Effect 3’s ending.

In his complaint, Murphy pointed to comments from BioWare designers, writers and producers about how player choices would directly impact the ending in very nuanced ways, creatures like the Rachni would play a huge role, the endings would not be as simple as A, B, C, and big mysteries would finally be answered.

Many of Murphy's arguments fall into semantic buckets, however, which makes his case difficult to make.

The response to Murphy’s decision by other fans was not completely supportive. Members of Retake Mass Effect pushed back on Murphy, painting his move as childish and over the line, but Murphy defended his decision.

“I figured this would be a big way to keep some pressure on BioWare and EA to actually respond to the fan base and give them a real response or explanation for what happened,” he told me.

Murphy, who works in advertising and political outreach, admitted to not expecting much to actually happen because of the filings--it’s a PR move on his part to push BioWare towards addressing his feelings about the ending.

“My hope is that we see some kind of change or addition to the ending that explains it,” he said. “The first step would certainly be an acknowledgement that this ending was not the ending that they said they were going to give us. That legitimizes the complaints.”

It’s unclear if BioWare’s statement yesterday accomplishes that, but Murphy said it felt “pretty good.”

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Jensen, who’s finished the first two games and is currently working through Mass Effect 3, has seen audience reactions like this many times before while covering TV and film. Jensen had a weekly column at Entertainment Weekly analyzing each new episode of Lost, including its polarizing finale. The ending to Lost prompted an intense dialogue, which left one batch of fans satisfied, another batch of fans still yelling at the showrunners through Twitter.

Lost co-creator Damon Lindelof, who helped write Ridley Scott's upcoming Prometheus, even commented about Mass Effect 3 on Twitter, a humorous tip of the hat to fans, the reaction and the developers at BioWare.

“In entertainment, and especially in the mediums of television and video games, they are ultimately service industries,” said Jensen. “Which is to say the customer is always right, and that’s going to be frustrating for storytellers to hear because ultimately you exist, your product exists, at the whims and desire of your consumer base. If they’re happy, if they’re unhappy, they’re right. Even if they’re wrong, they’re right. You have to deal with it.”

Whether it’s happening passively on TV or actively through a video game, endings to massive epics become about catharsis, a deeply personal release from everything that’s built up over the time you’ve spent inside this narrative.

With Lost, I spent every week watching that show with friends. We laughed, cried, and yelled at the show for years. I watched the series finale with the same friends, and we mostly cried. That moment with Jack? With his...? Man.

“Here, we really do see analogs to things like Lost or The Sopranos,” said Jensen, “where a fanbase that’s large and rabid and loyal and passionate and really, really invested--they’re not only getting the final game or final episode, the end of a story, they’re getting the door slammed on a huge part of their lives, a significant thing in their lives. To that end, an ending, then, must give you something more.”

The
The "numbers" were important to Lost, and mythology was key to some people's enjoyment.

I’ve been unable to fill Lost’s void after it went off the air, and maybe I never will. While I sympathize with those who didn’t find it to have the necessary amount of catharsis, I don’t agree with them. Though I cannot muster the same passion about Mass Effect 3, I get it.

“There seems to be a similarity here with Mass Effect 3,” said Jensen, “with a fanbase that has gone through these games and come to the end, and they want the full meal catharsis--they want everything. They want a heroic end, or the possibility of a heroic end. They want an emotional sendoff, they want resolution of certain mysteries, and they all want it to be coherent and skillfully done. It sounds like Mass Effect just didn’t nail that landing.”

The Sopranos and Lost's endings both caused waves. It’s an important moment for a game to cause the same level of ire, resentment and discussion, even if much of it seems negative at the moment. As Jensen pointed out, most people came around to appreciating what The Sopranos creator David Chase tried, and maybe the same thing will happen to Mass Effect 3 one day.

“I think Mass Effect, as a franchise, these three games taken together, I just can’t see how it’s not regarded as anything less than a landmark,” said Jensen. “There’s so many things to enjoy about these games and this world and the creative accomplishment of this series than just those final moments.”

For many, though, those final moments were everything.

Patrick Klepek on Google+

440 Comments

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otzlowe

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Edited By otzlowe

The people saying that video games aren't art because they're consumer-driven have a fundamentally flawed concept of what art is.

People make fun of art degrees all the time, but I take it that practically none of you understand the work involved in the creation of art or video games.

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agikamike

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Edited By agikamike

For those that see the entire game as an ending, I see where you are coming from.

But if that was the case for me, then it'd be a fucking denouement instead of an ever-building climax. An ending has falling action, and the main game didn't really have much falling action. And depending on who you ask, ME3's ending either had no falling action (IND theory) or it was rushed and poorly plotted. I dunno, man.

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foodmonster

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Edited By foodmonster

@Sergotron said:

@Carac: @Carac said:

If the indoctrination theory is true, they planned all of this. It would also explain why they want to wait until more people have finished it to say, "You all got tricked/indocrinated...and here's the battle that happened after the battle of shepard's will vs reaper Indocrtination that was happening in his head" (the ending we've seen).

The only ending where Shepard breathes in the rubble where he was hit by the Harbringer blast on earth was the one the reapers didn't want you to pick and the one that symbolizes not giving into indoctrincation. The left choice being that of the illusive man, and the central choice being that of Saren. We've all been played/tricked by indoctrination...I hope. I mean, why else would the trees and bushes from your dreams show up on the field around you after being hit by Harbinger's beam. Why would the narrow path to the console in the citadel be an amalgam of ship designs throughout Shepard's story (including the Shadow Broker's), all of that "Reaper vignetting" in the next to last scene. The last scene where Anderson represents Shepard's will fighting Indoctrination and the Illusive man representing Indoctrination. And the "choice of three" being the Reaper's test to see if indoctrination worked.

Wow, seeing this made me really like that ending now.

This is actually really compelling and I think is more consistent to the caliber of storytelling then to simply say, that Bioware just put a bad ending on the game. I must admit, I was not that disappointed with the ending as many were since i viewed the entire 3rd game as the ending and not simply the last few minutes. All the checks made for my decisions from previous games and how that determined the story was super impressive. In truth I only responded to make sure this video did not get buried under all the hate.

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Gordo789

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Edited By Gordo789

@WiqidBritt: starwars is a movie, we participate passively and become a little attached. Mass Effect is a video game, we participate actively and become more attached. I think that's the difference.

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veektarius

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Edited By veektarius

@Rasmoss said:

It was nice to have that civil discussion, but I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, because I don't see how there is anything inherently inconsistent about the choices you are faced with. You're in a bad situation, you get bad choices to resolve it. I'm sure you're right that if there had been a choice that was, "I want life to continue as it did before, just with no reapers" most people would make that choice and be happier with the ending. It's fine with me that there wasn't, though.

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WiqidBritt

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Edited By WiqidBritt

@Undeadpool: Exactly, everyone clamoring for a "heroic" ending seem to be missing the point. And even in ME2, there were a lot of ME1 fans who complained that 2 was too much action flick and not enough sci-fi space epic. Now that they got their sci-fi space epic ending, it turns out they wanted an action flick anyway.

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CatsAkimbo

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Edited By CatsAkimbo

Honestly I was fine with the basic idea of the ending plot-wise, it just felt shoddy and rushed. The plot hole with the Normandy is a big bummer, and leaving the player hanging on everything else going on sucks too. If they would fix the plot holes and add more denouement than the after-credits sequence, I'd probably be happy.

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r3dt1d3

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Edited By r3dt1d3

Did people really expect Bioware to turn out and finish this epic series in such a short time? Almost everything about ME3 was rushed which is why we should be blaming the publishers not the writers or game devs.

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tourgen

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Edited By tourgen
SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
"I made robots to kill you all every 50k years because if I didn't you would make robots that would eventually kill you all and take over."
What the fuck.

The ending was not logically consistent with the rest of the story and universe. It's not that I had an artistic problem with it. It's that it is objectively poorly designed, crafted, and delivered in the most ham-fisted way I could even imagine.

Fade to black at the white platform. Credits. That would have been a more expertly crafted ending. DOING NOTHING would have been better than what they did.

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WiqidBritt

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Edited By WiqidBritt

how is it that people are more upset about this, and taking more steps to get it changed, than they are for all of the changes George Lucas has made to Star Wars over the years?

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crithon

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Edited By crithon

interesting article. I'm sorry if I don't fallow Lost, but isn't Matrix revolutions a better comparison with polarizing the audience and the contents of ME3's ending.

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Snowsprite

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Edited By Snowsprite

Personally, I was never very invested in the Mass Effect fiction - it's essentially an alien invasion story with a few neat twists. Sure, I was expecting some sort of payoff to the three games' worth of decisions. Everyone was. Did it suck that it wasn't there? Sure. But I didn't really care that much. What was truly offensive to me as an artist and a consumer was how evident it was that the (ostensibly) professional writers involved were too thick or too indifferent to put together an ending sequence featuring, at bare minimum, a basic level of coherence.

Writers who don't think about what they are doing for literally five seconds before committing it to paper can't be too concerned with artistic integrity. The final scenes of Mass Effect 3 are a complete mess, to where it's difficult to believe they weren't written by a fifth grader. Bioware has the right to whatever creative direction pleases them, and if it were just a matter of deliberate creative choices not going over well with the fans, there would be no issue as far as I'm concerned.

The problem is when paid professional writers produce work so sloppy that it's evident they don't give a shit at all or just aren't fit for the job. As a society and consumer base we should not put up with that. It's an insult to all the other creatives who worked on the project - it's disgusting and it needs to stop. We should demand some basic level of competence from the individuals we pay to create entertainment for us.

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PiltdownMan

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Edited By PiltdownMan

I don't get why people are getting so up in arms over this and not the end of ME2.

Oh the reapers are building a giant space skeleton. People tell me they just build ships that look like previous races they destroyed (because that is how they explain it in the game) but then every other species ever wiped out must have looked like a cuttlefish because that is what every other reaper looks like, a giant space cuttlefish. It was more than a little disappointing to have the final battle of ME2 take place in what a friend calls a death metal cover. To me that is a much worse ending than somehow that kid shows up (its reading your mind?) and then space magic that fuses machines to organics? What? Biology doesn't work that way, aren't there supposed to be MDs running this company?

Oh, and I think they should keep the ending. Or continually release different "cuts" a la Bladerunner as someone else suggested.

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Jay444111

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Edited By Jay444111

@Nasar7 said:

I agree with Damon Lindelof. Video games are part of a service industry. They are a product, nothing more, that would not survive without the consumers. The consumers therefore have a right to bitch about whatever it is they don't like and demand change. Video games are not art, at least not yet.

Video games are still art, it is just that the ending is so half assed and bad that is literally destroys the lore of an entire franchise within 15 minutes. This is like releasing a extended version basically.

Video games are art, it is just that ME3 failed so much and so hard at the end that if they don't retcon it or if they don't go indoc theory. This all may actually DESTROY Bioware in the long run. If the DLC is free, than all will be forgiven in terms of storytelling and art if it is good. If it costs something... shit is going to fly in this debate from people who have no idea what art is or what story/storytelling.

I am going to paragraph just some of the problems with the ending just to show people WHY it is bad.

1. Plotholes galore.

2. Lore is destroyed due to stupidity.

3. Reapers motivation is one of the dumbest things a human being could ever hear about.

4. You have no control over anything. going against the entire premise of Mass Effect itself and the entirety of the franchise for years to come.

Those are just some of the problems with the ending. There are hundreds more that I can list off the back of my hand. This debate isn't about video games as art or anything, it is about a single franchise that was promised a conclusion and great story to end the trilogy on. When all we got was something so stupid that even a fourth grader could write it better. This is about calling out the devs for being lazy assholes and them doing bad at their job, and demanding that they fix very obvious problems they have caused.

The games are still art, wonderful art until... the ending. Then it just throws all that out the window and decides to become the dumbest thing possible. Which could easily be revised with current theories about the indoc theory and a added epilouge that actually matters in terms of choice and the central themes of the series without plotholing the fuck out of the franchise.

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strings19

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Edited By strings19

I think wanting to make ME 4, 5 and 6 someday makes it very hard to wrap up this trilogy without a giant reset button. How could they continue when the choices made in this game would have such a huge impact on the Milky Way?

My Shepard chose to save the rachni, cured the genophage and she liked the geth. Imagine how awesome my ME 4 would have been! Of course, it seems to have gotten too hard to keep the appearance that your choices matter. So, instead of a 10 minute Fallout-style of the impact of all your choices we got a bright light so everything is reset.

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jorbear

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Edited By jorbear

I think that the ending of ME3 is completely shitty, but changing a work of art like that to appease people is wrong.

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Rasmoss

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Edited By Rasmoss
@Veektarius
  
Well, a story doesn't need a "message" per se, but there should at least be some coherence about the themes it addresses. 
 
The problem with the ending choices is that no matter what, you're forced to go against decisions you've made previously. 
 
Want to destroy the Reapers? Well then you have to commit genocide against the artificial lifeforms you've treated as real beings all the way through. 
 
Want to control the Reapers? Well I can't even explain what happens if you choose this, because you still blow up the relays. 
 
I think most people would accept a lot of the other stuff, if the choices at least were coherent with the choices you'd made throughout.
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studnoth1n

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Edited By studnoth1n

@Rasmoss: that goes without saying. my point is how one responds to that disappointment. i haven't played the game, so i don't know in what way people were "lied" to, however, despite the public outcry, most people are still willing to stick by the product. maybe the disappointment wasn't so great that they'd be willing to abandon the series, i don't know. either way, there's little evidence to support that people truly disapprove.

also, it sounds a little fatalistic to imply that people can't learn from these experiences. there's no escaping disappointment in life, especially when you buy a game based purely on expectations, but you can better prepare yourself in the future. a more practical example might involve not paying for a product until you have it in hand. rather than giving up your "vote" so prematurely, this might put a little more pressure on publishers to do right by their audience. besides, i'm sure they're more than happy to vouchsafe an ending after the fact. it's far cheaper than losing support altogether.

again, if artistic integrity means little to the consumer, we shouldn't expect any different from those seeking to "push cans."

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LegalBagel

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Edited By LegalBagel

@walter_sobchak said:

@Rasmoss said:

When you've bought the game, you've already supported it, but you couldn't know it was a "shoddy product based on unkept promises" before you finished it.

So don't buy the next one. Welcome to capitalism, everyone.

I think "don't buy the next one" and Bioware's deteriorating standing are part of the reason they're scrambling to respond. Ruining one franchise with a terrible sequel, fighting the difficult battle of running a profitable MMO which you sunk a ton of money into, and leaving everyone with an extremely bad reaction to your Pre-DLC and ending of your major franchise/universe. Not good stuff for Bioware.

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Dan_CiTi

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Edited By Dan_CiTi

@Sergotron said:

@Carac: @Carac said:

If the indoctrination theory is true, they planned all of this. It would also explain why they want to wait until more people have finished it to say, "You all got tricked/indocrinated...and here's the battle that happened after the battle of shepard's will vs reaper Indocrtination that was happening in his head" (the ending we've seen).

The only ending where Shepard breathes in the rubble where he was hit by the Harbringer blast on earth was the one the reapers didn't want you to pick and the one that symbolizes not giving into indoctrincation. The left choice being that of the illusive man, and the central choice being that of Saren. We've all been played/tricked by indoctrination...I hope. I mean, why else would the trees and bushes from your dreams show up on the field around you after being hit by Harbinger's beam. Why would the narrow path to the console in the citadel be an amalgam of ship designs throughout Shepard's story (including the Shadow Broker's), all of that "Reaper vignetting" in the next to last scene. The last scene where Anderson represents Shepard's will fighting Indoctrination and the Illusive man representing Indoctrination. And the "choice of three" being the Reaper's test to see if indoctrination worked.

Wow, seeing this made me really like that ending now.

Makes sense, seeing as how the Illusive Man is just human Saren in ME3. Nice work to the creator of that video.

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veektarius

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Edited By veektarius

@Rasmoss said:

@Veektarius: I simply expect there to be a thematic consistency. Earlier in the same game you had to ponder whether you should keep the Krogan sterilized or if they should have a chance to prove their ability to co-exist, in spite of "mathematical projections" that they wouldn't able to. I, like I expect most others, made the choice from an ethical perspective to give the Krogan that chance. Then by the end you discover that you're at the bad end of a similar decision, with no possibility to undo it. There's just a lack of narrative logic there. I don't mean "realist logic" of whether scenarios are possible or impossible. It's a question of story and resolving story strands and conflicts in a coherent manner. What is the story saying? What is the message there? I haven't got a clue, and I would challenge anyone to try and tell me that there is one.

I don't see why the story requires a message. It's a story, not a social commentary. In order to have a message, it would need to 'rate' your choices, make value judgments about whether you were right or wrong, and no one should want that.

In terms of coherence, I agree with you, the ending was incoherent. But it was coherent enough for you to understand you were asked to make a choice between control of the synthetics, fear of the synthetics, and the choice to choose neither synthetics nor organics, but to change the fundamental nature of the galaxy and eliminate the distinction (fine sentiment, incoherent implementation). These choices are very thematically consistent with both the Krogan and Geth choices throughout the rest of the series What was mostly incoherent about it was just the chain of events. Why do the Mass Effect relays explode? Where is the Normandy going? Why is your crew on board? What, exactly, was the result of my choice? That's the incoherence they're probably going to fix.

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walter_sobchak

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Edited By walter_sobchak

@Rasmoss said:

When you've bought the game, you've already supported it, but you couldn't know it was a "shoddy product based on unkept promises" before you finished it.

So don't buy the next one. Welcome to capitalism, everyone.

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Xeridae

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Edited By Xeridae

The problem with Mass Effect 3 is that the ending is nothing but polarizing for the sake of being polarizing. It also resolves absolutely nothing. It despicably leaves the player hanging so they will buy the next game in the series when ME3 was supposed to be the final chapter in this particular story. It's anything but final. There is no resolution. In addition to being assholes just for the sake of being assholes Bioware also insults our intelligence when the explanation is given for why the reapers exist and why life get's wiped out every 50k years. I am not going to give it away but let me just say that if I was the writer on this and I had to think of the most illogical and completely nonsensical reason to kill almost all life in the galaxy this would have been right at the top of the list.

For me, it's not about getting some happy fucking ending where every thing is rainbows and sunshine, it's about getting some real answers for what the hell I've been fighting to save the galaxy from these past 3 games because by the end of ME3 I still didn't have the answer, reapers or no reapers. They may as well have replaced the final score with Rick Astley's ""Never Gonna Give You Up". At least then I could have laughed along with Bioware.

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Gordo789

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Edited By Gordo789

@Natesaint: Careful, that's dangerous thinking! The last thing we need is Mass Effect 8: The Mass Effect. All good things must come to an end, even if it's a shitty one.

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Natesaint

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Edited By Natesaint

I was disappointed in the endings at first but they have grown on me. The game does seem to have been rushed and this ending was no doubt part of that. What baffles me is it seems like Bioware and EA don't want to make money off this franchise anymore, otherwise why destroy the mass relays? It does not make financial sense to kill off this franchise. This is the biggest thing Bioware has going for them right now, so why end it? Seesh, and here I thought the bottom line is what always mattered.

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Sarnecki

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Edited By Sarnecki

@walter_sobchak: Example of what?! The fact that I feel entitled to a good, not shitty ending? Guess what? I AM entitled to a good ending, I'm NOT entitled to retcon edits. There's a big difference.

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studnoth1n

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Edited By studnoth1n

@vancealmighty: @vancealmighty said:

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

They flat out lied. Period. YOU LITERALLY GET AN A, B or C ENDING. People can think the fans are just bitching over nothing, and they should get over it, but the reality is that they, and I, were lied to.

and those grievances are certainly worth exploring and discussing, but to imply we should strong-arm the "authors" to do it again until they get it right is simply ridiculous. besides, this is hardly anything new. there exists a rich, storied history of expectations of franchises in television, film and literature where people have been met with justifiable disappointment. why should people's disappointments in this medium be treated so differently? and if it pisses you off so much, and i'm not saying that it shouldn't, why not simply say, "to hell with them," and turn your back? that singular act of protest has got to be far more effective than hanging around, yelling, "i'm mad as hell... but i'll take it some more as long as you make it my way."

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Rasmoss

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@studnoth1n
 
You wrote this  
"if someone made a shoddy product based on unkept promises, the consequences should be clear and direct. don't support it, let alone wait around for things to be "righted."  
 
When you've bought the game, you've already supported it, but you couldn't know it was a "shoddy product based on unkept promises" before you finished it.
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jasondesante

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basically valve wins because the ending of every one of their games are awesome

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@Veektarius
 
I simply expect there to be a thematic consistency. Earlier in the same game you had to ponder whether you should keep the Krogan sterilized or if they should have a chance to prove their ability to co-exist, in spite of "mathematical projections" that they wouldn't  able to. I, like I expect most others, made the choice from an ethical perspective to give the Krogan that chance. 
 
Then by the end you discover that you're at the bad end of a similar decision, with no possibility to undo it. There's just a lack of narrative logic there.  I don't mean "realist logic" of whether scenarios are possible or impossible. It's a question of story and resolving story strands and conflicts in a coherent manner. What is the story saying? What is the message there? I haven't got a clue, and I would challenge anyone to try and tell me that there is one.
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studnoth1n

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@Rasmoss: how did you come to that conclusion? my comment stands in complete solidarity with the title of the article. however, i don't think many people understand the importance of finality, especially in storytelling. hence, whether good or bad, "when it's over, it's over." instead, you see this compulsive tendency to rationalize and justify aspects of a plot, which should be completely irrelevant to the overall value of the story, but sadly for most it is not.

finality in storytelling is as essential as it is in death. it relieves the unbearable weight of eternal existence, both as an audience and as a human being. storytelling and life 101

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Undeadpool

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@Tumbler: Not sure why I got a response to this, but to accuse Bioware of "not caring" about their 7 year-old game franchise is ludicrous. Now I don't know whether to place the blame on EA or them, but frankly that ending was pure high science fiction. The kind the fans CLAIMED to be clamoring for (instead of "some CoD bullshit). It was exactly in the same vein as Isaac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke and Harlan Ellison (ESPECIALLY that last one).

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@Rasmoss: Shepard looks like he's going to die in about a minute at that point. I think that a philosophical debate as one is struggling to stand is a lot less realistic than a stubborn robot - though in fairness you did just have one with the Illusive Man.

And there is nothing inherently inconsistent about an AI programmed to prevent the rise of other AIs. I imagine you're bothered by the fact that the Reapers themselves did not advance to the point where they wiped out all organics, but it's clear the Reapers were not programmed in order to further their own goals. They are not like the geth or EDI, who strive to understand things like curiosity and hope. They are essentially intelligent beings without free will to do anything but what they were programmed for.

Or perhaps you're wondering who created the Reapers in the first place, hundreds of cycles ago. Is it really impossible to think up a scenario where some race of organics, at the end of a devastating war against the synthetics, implement a doomsday device that destroys their own people but prevents their mistake from ever happening again? Or maybe they create the reapers to defend 'organic life' from 'synthetic life' and the reapers came to the 'cleansing' solution on their own. This isn't a question that needs answering, because it happened so long ago, but the point is that hey, use your imagination.

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Spectreman

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Battlestar Galactica had a decent finale. And was a sad finale in many ways. The main problem with ME3 ending is that was not good like the all the rest of game.

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I can see why people are pissed. I guess some how, in my mind i knew this was going to happen, perhaps because this always happens. So i didnt buy Mass Effect 3, and killed my emotion for it over several months.

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Mass Effect fans got to the end of the third game and realized the emperor has no clothes and they are pissed.

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kyrieee

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@Napalm said:

@C_Cage said:

Artistic integrity is a completely romanticized view of how the business of selling art actually works and it's pissing me off. The only way to have full artistic control of your work is if you give it away for free. Since this is not a viable option for most people; artists must look at the trends in the market and hope to god that other people buy in to their artistic vision. If people do not you either stick to your guns in the hopes that they do before you die or you go back to the drawing board and bring something to market people appreciate.

I actually find it highly hilarious that everybody is willing to step in and defend videogames only as a consumer-based retail product, but when developers are challenged on other levels, everybody wants to double back on the consumer product point of view, step in and just go, "no, bro. It's art. You just don't get how art works."

This is exactly one of those times where literally, the entire game enthusiast press has double-backed and defended, "games are nothing but art, bro." Fuck off and pick a side. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. That isn't how this fucking thing works, that you can just flip flop on a whim when it's fucking convenient for you. I've lost more respect for people in the enthusiast press over this debacle than I think I ever have, exactly for this reason. Stick to your fucking guns or fuck off.

amen

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Rasmoss

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@Veektarius said:

@Rasmoss said:

@Zithe said:

@Rasmoss said:

@Veektarius: But there is plenty of wrong with the general idea. The ending contradicts stuff in the very same game (the characterisation of the Geth and EDI). It's like whoever wrote the ending didn't read his own story.

The Catalyst acknowledges that. He says his solution won't work anymore. He probably would have said a lot more if BioWare hadn't cut out most of his dialogue.

He said his solution won't work because Shepard reached him. He doesn't acknowledge that the whole thing was needless in the first place.

I don't believe that your point is relevant. The Catalyst/Reapers are built on an assumption that organic life will ultimately create synthetic life that will destroy it. It doesn't matter if it is wrong. Or rather, it is the belief that it is wrong that motivates your decision to stop the Reapers, which is what you do on any of the three endings. The fact the Catalyst believes it (erroneously or not) is not a plot hole. It was programmed to believe it.

 
It IS relevant, because you're not allowed to challenge his belief. Also the fact that The Catalyst/Reapers are a synthetic entity ultimately preoccupied with preserving organic life means he should short-circuit the minute he starts pondering the lack of logic in his own existance.
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AddyMac

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“In entertainment, and especially in the mediums of television and video games, they are ultimately service industries,” said Jensen.

Tell that to David Lynch.
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TadThuggish

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@Curufinwe said:

@Grognard66 said:

So much rage and drama to little purpose.

Like the the rest of your awful, whiny post.

CUT MY LIFE INTO PIECES

THIS IS MY LAST RESORT

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Rasmoss

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@studnoth1n
 
So you're saying people should have known how the game ended before they bought it?
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@jbreality:

But if the child does represent Reaper interests (or even Harbinger), nothing he says can be trusted. The red choice likely only destroys the reapers and leaves all other synthetic life, it's made to sound like the worst choice because it would mean their attempt to Indoctrinate Shepard failed. And you know co-existence is possible because you just "fixed" the Geth/Quarian divide. The entire sequence is in Shepard's head, this is an internal battle of wills, so the true purpose of the Catalyst and destruction of the relays is likely also a fabrication. After being hit by Harbinger's beam, nothing can be taken at face value. Look behind Shepard after the beam hits and he gets up, the trees from his dreams are where you just ran through. Look at the "wavy red vignetting" of the camera view during the Illusive Man's speech. The wound Shepard inflicts on Anderson suddenly showing up on him (gunshot to the lower left abdomen) that the camera focuses and lingers on.

On the flip side, if the ending was originally meant to taken at face value, Bioware would be crazy not to pickup the Indoctrination angle and run with it, saying "yeah...that's it....it was all part of the plan" *nervously looking at each other*. It makes too much sense. The codex description of indoctrination describes Shepard's last 10-15 minutes to the letter.

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veektarius

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@Rasmoss said:

@Zithe said:

@Rasmoss said:

@Veektarius: But there is plenty of wrong with the general idea. The ending contradicts stuff in the very same game (the characterisation of the Geth and EDI). It's like whoever wrote the ending didn't read his own story.

The Catalyst acknowledges that. He says his solution won't work anymore. He probably would have said a lot more if BioWare hadn't cut out most of his dialogue.

He said his solution won't work because Shepard reached him. He doesn't acknowledge that the whole thing was needless in the first place.

I don't believe that your point is relevant. The Catalyst/Reapers are built on an assumption that organic life will ultimately create synthetic life that will destroy it. It doesn't matter if it is wrong. Or rather, it is the belief that it is wrong that motivates your decision to stop the Reapers, which is what you do on any of the three endings. The fact the Catalyst believes it (erroneously or not) is not a plot hole. It was programmed to believe it.

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studnoth1n

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for those who regard this as some kind of victory in the democratic process, you're deluding yourselves. all this reveals is your inability to recognize when you're being blatantly pandered to, and ultimately, how immobile you are to protest. if someone made a shoddy product based on unkept promises, the consequences should be clear and direct. don't support it, let alone wait around for things to be "righted." however, it seems most have developed an unusually strong tolerance to being insulted.

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anubite

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Valve spent months iterating its ending for Portal 2. They never gave up. They even playtested the ending, watching for player reaction and feedback. They created an ending that appealed to their testers, making it open enough to facilitate a sequel yet satisfying enough to make the player's feel good about what they'd done.

BioWare gave up. Or at least, that's my feeling. Nobody wanted to create a quality ending so they shoved it out the door. This is unacceptable. BioWare should have more rigorous practices like Valve. But they don't and their profits should suffer for it. Nevermind that they did lie to us - they SAID that the ending would NOT be you simplying chosing the ending - it would culiminate from your choices. They said this multiple times. And the exact opposite happened.

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@C_Cage said:

Artistic integrity is a completely romanticized view of how the business of selling art actually works and it's pissing me off. The only way to have full artistic control of your work is if you give it away for free. Since this is not a viable option for most people; artists must look at the trends in the market and hope to god that other people buy in to their artistic vision. If people do not you either stick to your guns in the hopes that they do before you die or you go back to the drawing board and bring something to market people appreciate.

I actually find it highly hilarious that everybody is willing to step in and defend videogames only as a consumer-based retail product, but when developers are challenged on other levels, everybody wants to double back on the consumer product point of view, step in and just go, "no, bro. It's art. You just don't get how art works."

This is exactly one of those times where literally, the entire game enthusiast press has double-backed and defended, "games are nothing but art, bro." Fuck off and pick a side. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. That isn't how this fucking thing works, that you can just flip flop on a whim when it's fucking convenient for you. I've lost more respect for people in the enthusiast press over this debacle than I think I ever have, exactly for this reason. Stick to your fucking guns or fuck off.

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@Carac: @Carac said:

If the indoctrination theory is true, they planned all of this. It would also explain why they want to wait until more people have finished it to say, "You all got tricked/indocrinated...and here's the battle that happened after the battle of shepard's will vs reaper Indocrtination that was happening in his head" (the ending we've seen).

The only ending where Shepard breathes in the rubble where he was hit by the Harbringer blast on earth was the one the reapers didn't want you to pick and the one that symbolizes not giving into indoctrincation. The left choice being that of the illusive man, and the central choice being that of Saren. We've all been played/tricked by indoctrination...I hope. I mean, why else would the trees and bushes from your dreams show up on the field around you after being hit by Harbinger's beam. Why would the narrow path to the console in the citadel be an amalgam of ship designs throughout Shepard's story (including the Shadow Broker's), all of that "Reaper vignetting" in the next to last scene. The last scene where Anderson represents Shepard's will fighting Indoctrination and the Illusive man representing Indoctrination. And the "choice of three" being the Reaper's test to see if indoctrination worked.

Wow, seeing this made me really like that ending now.

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I never played ME (I'm trying too, but I'm just not liking the stuff between story beats... you know the game) so I didn't understand why everyone is so mad

then a friend sent me this image....

No Caption Provided

I understand why everyone is so angry now :\

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Rasmoss

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@Zithe said:

@Rasmoss: I don't think the endings are great, but I also don't think I would say that the struggle against the Reapers and their cycle is a minor theme. It's been present from the start and in all 3 games' conclusions.

Also, I know you weren't completely serious about how many magical points the Geth were worth, but you have to keep in mind that not only would you not get those points, you would have to subtract them from your current strength if they were actively working against you.

Yeah but it was never really clear what the Reapers were and what their motivation was. In fact it was said that their existance was "beyond human understanding" or somesuch. Mostly they acted as a backdrop against which you made your decisions.