@brodehouse said:
It's half baked because all of those various options aren't solid or reliable, there's no guarantees that when you try to use some of the more esoteric combinations whether or not they won't be immediately rendered useless by guys getting their pathfinding locked up or have some unforseeable nonsense completely derail your entire idea. The entire combat setup in BioShock is a chaotic mess, as the mechanics all struggle to co-exist and eventually you just resort to the few things that are boring and reliable. As I said, it sounds more like Ken Levine just throws his combat ideas into a pot and then pours it out completely heterogeneous rather than refine them until there is a slick, clean fundamental level to lay embellishments on. It sounds like he thinks of the embellishments first and then just chucks them out there. In fact, it sounds like he spends more time trying to refine the story and the exploration than he does the core gameplay, and it shows.
And no, I don't like the majority of first person shooters on mechanical levels (and I HATED shooters in the past). I feel like third person shooters do much better simply because they allow you to have an idea of your body and allow for defensive play that the majority of FPS absolutely do not.
If you don't like shooters, then I don't think you're a particularly appropriate person to judge any given one as half-baked. You wouldn't consult someone who hates MMOs on their opinion of TERA or whatever. As far as resorting to things that are boring and reliable - that's more a player problem. Bioshock isn't difficult enough that you need to rely on only a few effective weapons. I mean you can play all of Skyrim by just whacking at things with an axe, and if you deem it boring as a result that's really your fault. I didn't find Bioshock's combat mechanics to be a "chaotic mess," at least not in a bad way, and I'm still not sure what your basis for that claim is, other than restating it using different words. ;)
You're moving the goalposts. I didn't say I didn't like shooters, I said I don't like the majority of first person shooters on mechanical levels. That my issue with most first person shooters largely comes on the core mechanical issues probably says that I understand enough to be 'a particularly appropriate person'. Or perhaps you'd like to return to claiming that all I like is Call of Duty. You seem to care much more about arguing the speaker rather than arguing the argument.
The penalties for sloppy play are inconsequential when talking about mechanics, just because the game "isn't difficult enough" does not somehow make the combat mechanics stable and reliable, it doesn't somehow tighten up the scripting or the gameplay loop. As I already said, the plethora of options doesn't really matter when every encounter has so many disparate elements crashing together with completely unpredictable results because the a stray bullet hit a Big Daddy but you dug into the menu and got your ball thing and you hit him but oh no pathfinding on your Big Daddy Control Ball fucked up and now he's running back and forth between two sploycers while you're getting the shit beat out of you while bringing up menu after menu to switch to whatever plasmid or weapon you think is tactically appropriate for the next 6 seconds, turns out a sploycer knocked you into a turret's eyeline, now you got those flying twats to deal with as well except wait they can't pathfind around the stairwell they're just knocking around on the rails like idiots. Some people really enjoy a completely random element in their mechanics, but ultimately any sane approach to conflict finds the most direct, expedient, and most importantly, reproducible solution. Electrobolt and shotguns.
Your Skyrim reference is pretty hysterical, since I think you'll have to look pretty far and wide to find anyone whose going to call the combat mechanics in that game anything more than mediocre. Furthermore, if swinging an axe randomly at the nearest opponent is the most expedient and reproducible solution to any problem you face, then yeah, I'd say that reveals some pretty shallow mechanics.
It's rather disingenuous to ask for 'basis' when you are summarily ignoring anything you don't want to hear, should I prepare another thesis for you to handwave and say "well I think it's good so nuh uh"? You like BioShock, I get it. I liked exploring Rapture, it was quite beautiful, and I think Levine's story was pretty interesting... but a game with tight, responsive, intelligent mechanics? Hell no. It's a barely functioning shooter with a ton of bells and whistles bolted on.
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