BioShock Thing

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#101 Edited by ripelivejam (3816 posts) -

watched the beast of america trailer again in anticipation, came.

good example of using other people's music to bolster your own product in an awesome way.

(i know some hated it, screw them :) )

#102 Posted by unique (13 posts) -

Fantastic article, thanks so much Alex!

#103 Posted by Dan_CiTi (3262 posts) -

@pudge: Nah not really, I just cannot imagine him being better than Sheen, though I have probably seen about 5 or so minutes worth of the Ashton stuff and it was extremely painful, and from what I saw of the Sheen stuff was okay. That being said I have not had TV in years now, and just catch a few shows off the Internet once in a while, so yeah I'm not exactly Mr. TV Guide.

#104 Edited by Brodehouse (9887 posts) -

@sweetz said:

@brodehouse said:

It's half baked because all of those various options aren't solid or reliable, there's no guarantees that when you try to use some of the more esoteric combinations whether or not they won't be immediately rendered useless by guys getting their pathfinding locked up or have some unforseeable nonsense completely derail your entire idea. The entire combat setup in BioShock is a chaotic mess, as the mechanics all struggle to co-exist and eventually you just resort to the few things that are boring and reliable. As I said, it sounds more like Ken Levine just throws his combat ideas into a pot and then pours it out completely heterogeneous rather than refine them until there is a slick, clean fundamental level to lay embellishments on. It sounds like he thinks of the embellishments first and then just chucks them out there. In fact, it sounds like he spends more time trying to refine the story and the exploration than he does the core gameplay, and it shows.

And no, I don't like the majority of first person shooters on mechanical levels (and I HATED shooters in the past). I feel like third person shooters do much better simply because they allow you to have an idea of your body and allow for defensive play that the majority of FPS absolutely do not.

If you don't like shooters, then I don't think you're a particularly appropriate person to judge any given one as half-baked. You wouldn't consult someone who hates MMOs on their opinion of TERA or whatever. As far as resorting to things that are boring and reliable - that's more a player problem. Bioshock isn't difficult enough that you need to rely on only a few effective weapons. I mean you can play all of Skyrim by just whacking at things with an axe, and if you deem it boring as a result that's really your fault. I didn't find Bioshock's combat mechanics to be a "chaotic mess," at least not in a bad way, and I'm still not sure what your basis for that claim is, other than restating it using different words. ;)

You're moving the goalposts. I didn't say I didn't like shooters, I said I don't like the majority of first person shooters on mechanical levels. That my issue with most first person shooters largely comes on the core mechanical issues probably says that I understand enough to be 'a particularly appropriate person'. Or perhaps you'd like to return to claiming that all I like is Call of Duty. You seem to care much more about arguing the speaker rather than arguing the argument.

The penalties for sloppy play are inconsequential when talking about mechanics, just because the game "isn't difficult enough" does not somehow make the combat mechanics stable and reliable, it doesn't somehow tighten up the scripting or the gameplay loop. As I already said, the plethora of options doesn't really matter when every encounter has so many disparate elements crashing together with completely unpredictable results because the a stray bullet hit a Big Daddy but you dug into the menu and got your ball thing and you hit him but oh no pathfinding on your Big Daddy Control Ball fucked up and now he's running back and forth between two sploycers while you're getting the shit beat out of you while bringing up menu after menu to switch to whatever plasmid or weapon you think is tactically appropriate for the next 6 seconds, turns out a sploycer knocked you into a turret's eyeline, now you got those flying twats to deal with as well except wait they can't pathfind around the stairwell they're just knocking around on the rails like idiots. Some people really enjoy a completely random element in their mechanics, but ultimately any sane approach to conflict finds the most direct, expedient, and most importantly, reproducible solution. Electrobolt and shotguns.

Your Skyrim reference is pretty hysterical, since I think you'll have to look pretty far and wide to find anyone whose going to call the combat mechanics in that game anything more than mediocre. Furthermore, if swinging an axe randomly at the nearest opponent is the most expedient and reproducible solution to any problem you face, then yeah, I'd say that reveals some pretty shallow mechanics.

It's rather disingenuous to ask for 'basis' when you are summarily ignoring anything you don't want to hear, should I prepare another thesis for you to handwave and say "well I think it's good so nuh uh"? You like BioShock, I get it. I liked exploring Rapture, it was quite beautiful, and I think Levine's story was pretty interesting... but a game with tight, responsive, intelligent mechanics? Hell no. It's a barely functioning shooter with a ton of bells and whistles bolted on.

#105 Posted by Deusx (1903 posts) -

Great article Alex, first Patrick releasing that Skullgirls piece and now this? Giant Bomb is on a roll this week. Keep up the good work guys, and also thanks for making me even more interested in this game. Can't wait to play it.

#106 Posted by ripelivejam (3816 posts) -

@symmetrical said:

I wish Alex Navarro replaced Patrick Klepek. Like, completely. Like Prophet replacing Alcatraz. Like Ashton Kutcher replacing Charlie Sheen. Like that taxidermy people replacing a bird with a automated robot bird thing. Like... you get the point.

i love how people are so enraged by him that they keep bringing him up even in things that have nothing to do with him.

i hope i can engender that kind of wasteful and pointless hate from someone like that someday.

already posted a few times but great article alex, and damn you for making me try to play through bioshock before this comes out. :/

#107 Edited by Sweetz (509 posts) -

As I already said, the plethora of options doesn't really matter when every encounter has so many disparate elements crashing together with completely unpredictable results because the a stray bullet hit a Big Daddy but you dug into the menu and got your ball thing and you hit him but oh no pathfinding on your Big Daddy Control Ball fucked up and now he's running back and forth between two sploycers while you're getting the shit beat out of you while bringing up menu after menu to switch to whatever plasmid or weapon you think is tactically appropriate for the next 6 seconds, turns out a sploycer knocked you into a turret's eyeline, now you got those flying twats to deal with as well except wait they can't pathfind around the stairwell they're just knocking around on the rails like idiots. Some people really enjoy a completely random element in their mechanics, but ultimately any sane approach to conflict finds the most direct, expedient, and most importantly, reproducible solution. Electrobolt and shotguns.

See now what you've just described there sounds quite fun to me; and why use the most "direct, expedient and reproducible" solution as opposed to the most entertaining one? If you approach a shooter like it's a spreadsheet, that would seem to be a contributing reason to not enjoying them.

Anywho, being "right" about an opinion on the internet not so important to me to bother writing a "thesis", but I doubt most people in the industry would call Bioshock a "barely functioning shooter."

#108 Posted by TangoUp (307 posts) -

This was a really good article. The game is intriguing (I havent played the earlier 2 and I havent followed Infinite) and looks very atmospheric. If it has a good single player story and campaign, I'm in.

Damn, MGR, Tomb Raider and Bioshock. I don't know if I will be able to wait for all of them to drop in price ...

#109 Posted by JCGamer (663 posts) -

I think that it's interesting that the main focus of the pre-release coverage has been on Ken Levine and sort of about the game. I'm hoping that this game delivers something, because the more stories I see about the creator of the game rather than the game itself make me worried that there isn't much to the game.

#110 Posted by jakob187 (21665 posts) -

That was a fantastic goddamn article, Alex.

#111 Posted by AlecOfTheWest (279 posts) -

Hey, an article on the front page that actually pertains to what this website is about! Anyway, enjoyed the write-up. Looking even more forward to this game.

#112 Posted by n0nametaz (273 posts) -

lol It better not get held back again.

#113 Edited by Nomin (972 posts) -

@brodehouse: I played Bioshock, and I'd agree with you from what I remember. I recall not using any of the weapons presented progressively in different situations as simply freezing enemy and bashing them with wrenches would all I use primarily. New weapon acquisitions always precede certain set moments where that particular instrument is, well, instrumental, and nothing more. And the aspects of gameplay where anything deeper than just rudimentary run and gun type FPS convention would be too few and far between, if not wholly contrived in staged vacuums, such as electrocution coming into play when you almost always invariably find splicers trudging around in water puddles. The vita chambers where one always comes back to life eliminate any semblance of any logic based on realism and betray any thoughtful investment in game balance and tension or lack thereof. Moreover, water ironically having almost no effect of importance in any situation or circumstance for a game taking place in its entirely in a dilapidated city under, well, water, are examples of mea culpas to a rather pedestrian game design. I would expect Infinite to be no different.

#114 Posted by Morrow (1829 posts) -

@sooty said:

BioShock wasn't that great aside from the intro.

Still optimistic for this one though, but 2 was better than 1.

I just got into the franchise recently with BioShock 1 (I usually never play FPS, but heard good things about it and gave the Ultimate Rapture Edition a try), and I must say I really like the game. Hearing the second one is even better makes me excited about Infinite even though I never paid any attention to it during it's presentation and marketing... :D

#115 Posted by DeadMonkeys (825 posts) -

Great article Alex.

#116 Posted by beepmachine (618 posts) -

That was a great read. Thanks Alex. You guys have been killing it lately.

#117 Posted by HerbieBug (4212 posts) -

Now that is how a good preview is done! Tremendous job, Alex! You have put the entire rest of the games journo industry to shame! :D

#118 Posted by fishadder (6 posts) -

I only pLAYED A BIT Owoops sorry caps! I'm pissd on fine wines!!! I only played a wee bit of Bioshock 1, liked it then my xbox started eating disks so I never got to the end, never played 2 but recently loved the fuck out of Dishonoured! honestly if Bioshock 3 is anyway as supergood as Dishonoured I'll be a happy fucker

;)

#119 Edited by Cold_Wolven (2217 posts) -

This preview has me really hyped up about this game, I'm hoping it's everything it set itself out to be.

#120 Posted by gokaired (525 posts) -

The more I hear/read about this game the more I'm interested :)

#121 Posted by Wrighteous86 (3782 posts) -

@morrow said:

@sooty said:

BioShock wasn't that great aside from the intro.

Still optimistic for this one though, but 2 was better than 1.

I just got into the franchise recently with BioShock 1 (I usually never play FPS, but heard good things about it and gave the Ultimate Rapture Edition a try), and I must say I really like the game. Hearing the second one is even better makes me excited about Infinite even though I never paid any attention to it during it's presentation and marketing... :D

That's.... not the common opinion. Bioshock 2 isn't bad though. Definitely pick up the Minerva's Den DLC if you wind up playing it, though.

#122 Posted by Fatcat222 (31 posts) -

Really get structure to the article. Thanks for the read.

#123 Posted by PridedWalnut (10 posts) -

That looks so much like dishonoured it's unreal

#124 Posted by KlUMZeE (318 posts) -

Incredible article Alex, thank you. Sooo excited for this!

#125 Posted by eatatwhiteys (65 posts) -

Opinions!

Pull quotes are a lazy and stupid way to pad an article. They don't add anything meaningful and distract the reader.

Otherwise, I really enjoyed this piece. Alex has done a pretty good job of touching on things that have been absent in other articles about the same part of the game.

Really don't think the pull quotes were used to ''pad'' the article as you say given the length of the article, but more as a way of drawing into focus mr levine 's artistic and creative integrity. As a former journalist myself, we also used them to give the reader a way of quickly discovering the type of content which could be expected in the body of the work.

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