" The original meaning of that symbol was not of Nazi-ism. You'll see it everywhere in parts of the world, before WWII happened. I'm sure the Pokemon Company wasn't referencing 1930's Germany. "

" @Diamond said:

" @RsistncE:  Your complaints are idiotic and ignorant.  They're censoring the game for violence so the game can be sold prominently in stores.  Lots of games get this treatment in Japan, including Japanese developed games.  Japanese ratings have gotten harsher in recent years so games with lots of violence that would only have a M in the US have the Japanese equivalent of an AO rating.  You should do some research before you go on another bigoted rant again. "

Incredible. Some people here say it has nothing to do with the violence, you say it has everything to do with the violence. Yet I have a hard time figuring out how a Swastika is violent. Either way you've just called many people in this thread (along with myself) idiots. Good job on not discussing the topic in the civil manner as everyone else here is doing. Well done. Personal insults are awesome. "

Censorship pretty much sucks when the government thinks its better for the people, when its not. 
 
Educating your population that something horrible happened in the past is the way to make sure it never happens again; not pretend that it never existed.

For a country that's banning Happy Meals you sure are whiney about other countries standards.

" @Diamond: Yeah, because saying that a government may be censoring media to some extent because it doesn't want anyone to talk about the material they censored is racist and bigoted. I'm totally the real piece of work here. "

" @BrickRoad: Exactly. At the end of the day people need to be held accountable for their actions and I think the fact that Germany and Japan want to essentially wipe their massive mistakes from peoples minds just means they didn't fucking learn their lesson. Hell Japanese people still have a superiority complex, you'd think after being fucking nuked, TWICE, that they'd realize they really aren't much better than any other meatbag on this planet. "

This thread has got pretty crazy. So my parting statement will be me reiterating my opinion that: Japan does acknowledge it's history, and it is not attempting to cover it up. And that I wish my username didn't keep popping up next to a paragraph I disagree with.

" @RsistncE said:

" @Diamond: Yeah, because saying that a government may be censoring media to some extent because it doesn't want anyone to talk about the material they censored is racist and bigoted. I'm totally the real piece of work here. "

It's not government censorship, it's censorship by Square Enix so the game can be sold in stores where people will actually see the games instead of in back rooms.  Period. "

" @RsistncE said:

" @BrickRoad: Exactly. At the end of the day people need to be held accountable for their actions and I think the fact that Germany and Japan want to essentially wipe their massive mistakes from peoples minds just means they didn't fucking learn their lesson. Hell Japanese people still have a superiority complex, you'd think after being fucking nuked, TWICE, that they'd realize they really aren't much better than any other meatbag on this planet. "

Most of the German military didn't have any idea concerning the concentration camps and the holocaust, they were simply trying to reclaim their nations standing after the absurd restrictions put on it after WW1 sent the nation into extreme poverty. I can't imagine the vast majority of Japanese soldiers had any idea about the holocaust. They are not trying to forget it, but they also don't need to be associated with something they didn't do (e.g. the holocaust). "

In Modern Warfare 2 they let you shoot up hundreds of Russian civilians and watch as they pile up on the floor.
 
Yet as soon as you get to America for some reason, even though a huge war is going on, you don't see any dead American civilians.
 
Kojima Productions gutted the end of MGS2 (so much that it makes no sense) because they were really worried that showing a destroyed New York would offend American's after 9/11.
 
Let's not make generalisations here. Stuff gets cut for a lot of complex reasons.
 

 Hell Japanese people still have a superiority complex, you'd think after being fucking nuked, TWICE, that they'd realize they really aren't much better than any other meatbag on this planet.   

 
I don't even know where to start with a statement like that.

I fail to see why it's such a big deal that Japan don't want to be portrayed in a negative light when they've spent the last 50+ years trying to fix those mistakes.

World War 2 kind of plays a role in Black Ops' plot..
not gonna say anymore, but I hope SE doesn't change the actual story by censoring
 
Also the interrogation scene I could have done without, it was very cringe worthy to me bleh

Are you a US citizen? If not, don't bother reading this. If so, you'll be delighted to know that censorship is much more rampant in your country than Germany (possibly Japan as well, don't really know). I'm not talking about something as trivial as video games here, but things like banning books from schools that mention evolution for example. You also had the audacity to alter the lyrics of John Lennon's greatest song, Imagine, from "no religion too" to "one religion too". So while Germany and Japan might not like to expose its citizens to swastikas, your country is filling the minds of its youth with lies and misconceptions. Sorry, but you don't have the right to point fingers. 
 
I don't hate the US or anything, but sometimes I feel like we need to hold a giant mirror up to the faces of the American people and give them a good reality check. 

" Are you a US citizen? If not, don't bother reading this. If so, you'll be delighted to know that censorship is much more rampant in your country than Germany (possibly Japan as well, don't really know). I'm not talking about something as trivial as video games here, but things like banning books from schools that mention evolution for example. You also had the audacity to alter the lyrics of John Lennon's greatest song, Imagine, from "no religion too" to "one religion too". So while Germany and Japan might not like to expose its citizens to swastikas, your country is filling the minds of its youth with lies and misconceptions. Sorry, but you don't have the right to point fingers.  I don't hate the US or anything, but sometimes I feel like we need to hold a giant mirror up to the faces of the American people and give them a good reality check.  "

 Activisions hand is kinda forced when Germany or Japan would outright ban the game if it wasn't heavily cut and censored.  

Yo, are you serious? Germany has been owning up to everything they did in both WW1 (They recently just finished paying all their debts from WW1 too) and WW2. It's fucking Japan who is going: "What? What the fuck is WW2?". Germany deserves credit for trying to make up for all the shit it has done. 

Edit: You know what? I'm wrong. Japan doesn't really say that. But, they don't put as much effort as the Germans do when it comes to dealing with their past. My fault for reacting like that. Sorry.

Is censorship of any kind dumb? Yes. Do I trust Activision to handle controversial topics with poise and grace? No.  
 
But, whether it's narrative is poignant or pedantic, every country and every (adult) citizen should be able to see it as intended and judge for themselves. No government needs to limit that power for its citizens and, if you as a developer have any moral core, you should either release your product as is and accept the ban, or petition the government to change their standards. The Japanese sales do not justify bowing to censors. 

Yeah, how hypocritical from their own history in terms of invading other countries and killing ppl. Well japan has an adversion to violence, just as germany does too after what they were viewed as from the world. Americans has an adversion to sex though and not to violence.

While I agree that people should know their history, nothing good comes from passing guilt down generation to generation.

" While I agree that people should know their history, nothing good comes from passing guilt down generation to generation. "

its funny how they think people in japan play call of duty.

" @BrickRoad: Exactly. At the end of the day people need to be held accountable for their actions and I think the fact that Germany and Japan want to essentially wipe their massive mistakes from peoples minds just means they didn't fucking learn their lesson. Hell Japanese people still have a superiority complex, you'd think after being fucking nuked, TWICE, that they'd realize they really aren't much better than any other meatbag on this planet. "

" @Brendan:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies  This is a good general summary of the textbook situation. "

Sometimes I wish people would stop yelling AMERICA FUCK YEAH so loud and just open their eyes, if only for a second.

" @RsistncE said:

" @Brendan:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies  This is a good general summary of the textbook situation. "

Because Wikipedia is always right and never biased.  Japan has enough reminders of their atrocities.  Removing symbols or references from a single game is not akin to media-wide censorship.  Americans were adamant about removing any and all images of the World Trade Center from certain media after 9/11.  Skip to a few years later, and it became widely acceptable to not only depict them, but to depict their destruction.  Or what about the depictions of the wild west and the colonial era?  How many movies have there been that completely glossed over the fact that the settlers invaded an indigenous people's land, decimated their populations with disease, waged war with them and ultimately shuttled them off to reservations that still exist today?  Many, many movies and other forms of media depicted the Native American population as savages fighting the noble white man.  Such caricatures still exist today, even if they aren't as prevalent. "

" @BrickRoad: Exactly. At the end of the day people need to be held accountable for their actions and I think the fact that Germany and Japan want to essentially wipe their massive mistakes from peoples minds just means they didn't fucking learn their lesson. Hell Japanese people still have a superiority complex, you'd think after being fucking nuked, TWICE, that they'd realize they really aren't much better than any other meatbag on this planet. "

" @RsistncE said:

" @Brendan:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies  This is a good general summary of the textbook situation. "

Because Wikipedia is always right and never biased.  Japan has enough reminders of their atrocities.  Removing symbols or references from a single game is not akin to media-wide censorship.  Americans were adamant about removing any and all images of the World Trade Center from certain media after 9/11.  Skip to a few years later, and it became widely acceptable to not only depict them, but to depict their destruction.  Or what about the depictions of the wild west and the colonial era?  How many movies have there been that completely glossed over the fact that the settlers invaded an indigenous people's land, decimated their populations with disease, waged war with them and ultimately shuttled them off to reservations that still exist today?  Many, many movies and other forms of media depicted the Native American population as savages fighting the noble white man.  Such caricatures still exist today, even if they aren't as prevalent. "

After reading the back and forth in the previous pages I have one conclusion, I don't really like RsistncE. I think HandsomeDead sums it up perfectly 
@HandsomeDead said:

" While I agree that people should know their history, nothing good comes from passing guilt down generation to generation. "

"God damn Japanese and Germans are so fuckin evil, they did things a while back that were bad. My country has never done such awful things, wasn't founded by war and certainly never approved of slavery or any other bad things in the past. Patriotism! Fuck yeah! We're number 1! We're number 1!" 
 
Who gives a fuck, countries do things because a minority who have power want more and then proceed to use force. I certainly hold no ill will towards any British person for stuff some corpses decided would be an awesome couple of hundred years. 
 
Edit: I've revised this post a few times too :D 

@HandsomeDead

" While I agree that people should know their history, nothing good comes from passing guilt down generation to generation. "

Hm... just read the short article and it specifically says "all swastikas in zombie mode will be replaced with the Iron Cross in the Windows and dubbed home console versions of the game. Only in the subtitled console editions will the Nazi symbol remain intact." It seems like Amazon.co.jp is also specifically listing subtitled and dubbed versions of the game separately. Also worth noting is that the MSRP for the subtitled version is slightly lower than that of the dubbed. So, the version with Swastikas are still going to be abundantly available... at least on consoles.
 
To me it sounds like the censoring of the swastikas wasn't politically motivated on Square Enix or Activision's part at all. Activision doesn't have a very impressive history with localization in the Asian territory, and this just sounds like a stupid localization problem.

It's okay, so long as Americans remember that the former Axis powers were all fascists and imperialists. They can forget all they want, but we'll keep them accountable. Like how native americans keep the white man accountable for the fact that we committed a horrible, horrible genocide against them over the course of three centuries, and thus acquire tax-free casinos.

wow ... as a german some of the stuff I read here really angers me. Trust me, we are VERY well aware of our past. To be honest: Im pretty sure we are MORE aware of our past and what we as a nation did wrong than most other countrys in the world, especially the USA. That nazi-symbolism is not allowed in some forms of media has nothing to do with us trying to make the world forget about the 3rd reich (what kind of bullshit argument is that anyways?). 
 
Is the censorship stupid? Yeah, sometimes. But the same argument can be made about the "fear" of even remotely sexual content in the US.
 
And back to the whole guilt-thing ... how guilty do the US citizens among us feel about invating one country after another without any real reason, killing vast numbers of civilians in the process? Did you find those weapons of mass destruction yet? ... How is the situation in Vietnam going? Sure is peacefull down there now. And I'm pretty sure all the native americans are really happy about the way they were treated by the white settlers. So are probably all the africans that had the luck to work in the US . And being pretty much the only nation that used a nuclear weapon in a war must be amazing too ...
 
Stupid comments? Yeah, probably, but not worse than most comments in this thread about germany.
 

Wait a minute... your fighting douche bags in Zombie mode?

Whatev's. If they want their swastika's bad enough, they'll import a copy. The majority of them probably don't care.

" @RsistncE

@BrickRoad: Exactly. At the end of the day people need to be held accountable for their actions and I think the fact that Germany and Japan want to essentially wipe their massive mistakes from peoples minds just means they didn't fucking learn their lesson. Hell Japanese people still have a superiority complex, you'd think after being fucking nuked, TWICE, that they'd realize they really aren't much better than any other meatbag on this planet.

You sir, piss me the fuck off. I'm glad how one company censoring a game allows you to generalize a whole fucking country. Somehow some of the most humble people on earth have a superiority complex??? "