The Last Straw

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#1 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

Two days ago, I forced myself to slog through Act II on Inferno. I've beaten Magda a day or so before - so it's the Kull storyline up to the Belial fight. I made it all the way to the last dungeon, where I logged out. Long session. Good progress. Yesterday night, I squeezed in an hour of Act I farming between movies.

Guess what. When I wanted to complete Act II today? Guess where the game let me continue... AFTER the fucking Magda fight. I lost like 5 hours of hard won progress (and that's a low estimate). Fucking assholes with their shit checkpoints and their shit chapters and their shit balancing. That entire fucking thing is like the worst fucking hellhole in the game, and I've got to do it twice now.

So once you've decided to progress, you aren't allowed to farm Act I anymore, lest you lose all progress? You got to be kidding me. Your brains on my angry fist! GRRRR.

#2 Posted by gamefreak9 (2358 posts) -

Dude I cant even get to the spider queen on inferno :P.

#3 Edited by Ares42 (2625 posts) -

Always make sure you actually complete a quest before you switch quests. There is a warning letting you know you will lose progress when you start a new quest (as when you switch back you're basically starting the quest all over). Lost some progress like that myself too =/

#4 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@gamefreak9 said:

Dude I cant even get to the spider queen on inferno :P.

And what's that got to do with anything? I've made my progress, and apparently 2 gigantic outdoor areas and 3 dungeons don't deserve a single permanent entrypoint in chapter select. Their countless haphazardly dished out slights at my competence as a gamer I shall suffer no longer. God damn amateur assholes pride themselves in delivering broken gamedesign. I spit on them and their exploitative disrespectful design. Blech.

Value my time! Fucking cunts.

#5 Posted by gamefreak9 (2358 posts) -

@Seppli said:

@gamefreak9 said:

Dude I cant even get to the spider queen on inferno :P.

And what's that got to do with anything? I've made my progress, and apparently 2 gigantic outdoor areas and 3 dungeons don't deserve a single permanent entrypoint in chapter select. Their countless hapazardly dished out slights at my competence as a gamer I shall suffer no longer. God damn amateur assholes pride themselves in delivering broken gamedesign. I spit on them and their exploitative disrespectful design. Blech.

Value my time! Fucking cunts.

what the other guy said, you have to make sure your at an ACTUAL checkpoint, you should have known where those are if you finished them game 3 times by now, basically whenever you get gold from the quest. Also its not a big deal i'm sure you would have had to go through these areas like 100 times times anyway cause you have to farm act 2 as well.

#6 Posted by Binman88 (3686 posts) -

You done goofed. Hasn't it been that way forever in games? If you don't complete a quest/mission and decide to replay a previous one, you'll lose all your checkpoint progress in your current one.

#7 Posted by Hailinel (24421 posts) -

@Binman88 said:

You done goofed. Hasn't it been that way forever in games? If you don't complete a quest/mission and decide to replay a previous one, you'll lose all your checkpoint progress in your current one.

No, because there are modern games that allow you to maintain your current progress in a quest while pursuing a different quest.

#8 Posted by WMWA (1160 posts) -

You sure love torturing yourself for a game you seem to hate, haha. I do feel your pain. I'm having trouble making any progression in inferno

#9 Edited by TentPole (1858 posts) -

That is what I like to call - Pulling a Brad.

@Seppli said:

@gamefreak9 said:

Dude I cant even get to the spider queen on inferno :P.

And what's that got to do with anything? I've made my progress, and apparently 2 gigantic outdoor areas and 3 dungeons don't deserve a single permanent entrypoint in chapter select. Their countless haphazardly dished out slights at my competence as a gamer I shall suffer no longer. God damn amateur assholes pride themselves in delivering broken gamedesign. I spit on them and their exploitative disrespectful design. Blech.

Value my time! Fucking cunts.

  1. The game gives you a big fat disclaimer that you will lose all quest progress when you decided to go back to act 1.
  2. The guy was just mentioning how hard inferno was.
  3. You are an asshole.
#10 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@TentPole said:

That is what I like to call - Pulling a Brad.

Odd - I always thought it was the game designers' job to ensure a certain standard of progression. To me it seems, just like they didn't balance Inferno difficulty with proper intent, they didn't set their chapter checkpoints with Inferno in mind. It's sloppy and haphazard design, and a slight to anyone who ventures into Inferno mode expecting the same level of polish as the rest of the game.

Going for 5+ hours of progress without a hard checkpoint is a grievous oversight, and it's certainly not us users to blame, if we lose that kind of time investment in progress to doing what comes natural. Taking a well deserved break, and farming a previous act. Fuck them for that.

#11 Posted by supamon (1333 posts) -

If you made it through before I don't see the issue in doing it again. You already went through the game at least 3 times to get to inferno after all, just take it as additional farming.

#12 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@supamon said:

If you made it through before I don't see the issue in doing it again. You already went through the game at least 3 times to get to inferno after all, just take it as additional farming.

Well - you ain't playing Inferno for fun right now. You play Inferno to beat it. Out of compulsion. It's revolting really.

#13 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7077 posts) -
@TentPole

That is what I like to call - Pulling a Brad.

@Seppli said:

@gamefreak9 said:

Dude I cant even get to the spider queen on inferno :P.

And what's that got to do with anything? I've made my progress, and apparently 2 gigantic outdoor areas and 3 dungeons don't deserve a single permanent entrypoint in chapter select. Their countless haphazardly dished out slights at my competence as a gamer I shall suffer no longer. God damn amateur assholes pride themselves in delivering broken gamedesign. I spit on them and their exploitative disrespectful design. Blech.

Value my time! Fucking cunts.

  1. The game gives you a big fat disclaimer that you will lose all quest progress when you decided to go back to act 1.
  2. The guy was just mentioning how hard inferno was.
  3. You are an asshole.
Yeah when you reply like that no one is going to do anything but laugh at your unfortunately lost progress.
#14 Posted by supamon (1333 posts) -

@Seppli said:

@supamon said:

If you made it through before I don't see the issue in doing it again. You already went through the game at least 3 times to get to inferno after all, just take it as additional farming.

Well - you ain't playing Inferno for fun right now. You play Inferno to beat it. Out of compulsion. It's revolting really.

I understand dude, I managed to clear act 1 today and act 2 is really giving me the business. I'm playing as a monk so it's even tougher. If the game is giving you that much frustration then maybe you wanna take a break or play another class?

#15 Posted by Tordah (2478 posts) -

Why didn't you just finish the last dungeon in the first place?

#16 Posted by ichthy (498 posts) -

Yup, I've had this happen as well, luckily not in Inferno. Feel your pain.

#17 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

I found this out after the first day playing it, rookie mistake on your behalf. Atleast you still got XP so go and do it again.

#18 Posted by MikkaQ (10284 posts) -

Help I quit without saving and now I'm blaming anyone but myself for it!

#19 Posted by pornstorestiffi (4911 posts) -

@TentPole said:

That is what I like to call - Pulling a Brad.

@Seppli said:

@gamefreak9 said:

Dude I cant even get to the spider queen on inferno :P.

And what's that got to do with anything? I've made my progress, and apparently 2 gigantic outdoor areas and 3 dungeons don't deserve a single permanent entrypoint in chapter select. Their countless haphazardly dished out slights at my competence as a gamer I shall suffer no longer. God damn amateur assholes pride themselves in delivering broken gamedesign. I spit on them and their exploitative disrespectful design. Blech.

Value my time! Fucking cunts.

  1. The game gives you a big fat disclaimer that you will lose all quest progress when you decided to go back to act 1.
  2. The guy was just mentioning how hard inferno was.
  3. You are an asshole.

That sums it up.

gamefreak9 just let you know he find it balls hard, and is probably having a hard time wiping over and over just to advance to where you are at. He wasn't being disrespectful or anything. But your comment for him was pretty fucking lame.

#20 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

To be fair, there's no little message that tells you not to turn off your system or yank the memory card out while it's saving.

#21 Posted by TooWalrus (13173 posts) -

@MariachiMacabre said:

@TentPole

That is what I like to call - Pulling a Brad.

@Seppli said:

@gamefreak9 said:

Dude I cant even get to the spider queen on inferno :P.

And what's that got to do with anything? I've made my progress, and apparently 2 gigantic outdoor areas and 3 dungeons don't deserve a single permanent entrypoint in chapter select. Their countless haphazardly dished out slights at my competence as a gamer I shall suffer no longer. God damn amateur assholes pride themselves in delivering broken gamedesign. I spit on them and their exploitative disrespectful design. Blech.

Value my time! Fucking cunts.

  1. The game gives you a big fat disclaimer that you will lose all quest progress when you decided to go back to act 1.
  2. The guy was just mentioning how hard inferno was.
  3. You are an asshole.
Yeah when you reply like that no one is going to do anything but laugh at your unfortunately lost progress.

*ahem*

lul

#22 Posted by Fin (85 posts) -

You certainly seem like a gigantic dickhead, I'm glad you lost progress.

#23 Edited by Do_The_Manta_Ray (645 posts) -

@Seppli said:

@gamefreak9 said:

Dude I cant even get to the spider queen on inferno :P.

And what's that got to do with anything? I've made my progress, and apparently 2 gigantic outdoor areas and 3 dungeons don't deserve a single permanent entrypoint in chapter select. Their countless haphazardly dished out slights at my competence as a gamer I shall suffer no longer. God damn amateur assholes pride themselves in delivering broken gamedesign. I spit on them and their exploitative disrespectful design. Blech.

Value my time! Fucking cunts.

I'd just like to say that I'm currently in the EXACT same spot as you were in inferno.. That's it. Nananana.

This is me, revelling in your misery, mate. Just like the majority of the share-holders in this thread, are you beginning to see a pattern emerge through the misty haze of your RAAAAAAAGEE?

Okay, all tongue-wagging aside, what were you thinking? I could understand why you'd be pissed at losing a certain amount of progress, but what I can't understand is why you'd be so petty as to lash out against another user without any regard for him, a scapegoat is what you treated him as. You actually drew me a mental picture of someone aiming a kick at a puppy. Why would you kick the puppy, Seppli, WHY?! What's the puppy ever done to you? Imagine the little puppy fighting the spider queen and failing time and again. That's a poor, little puppy, and you kicked it.

So, not only have you alienated people to what is genuinely a "sucky" occurance, but you've actually managed to make us rather pleased about it. Poetic justice, etcetera. I'd suggest you PM a mod to shut this thread down, PM gamefreak9 and apologize for your childish behaviour and go about your day. Maybe that way we can actually find it in ourselves to respect you again, mate. And to think I'd gotten a rather good impression of you up until this thread.

@gamefreak9 said:

Dude I cant even get to the spider queen on inferno :P.

By the way, duder, you on European Servers? If so, PM me your battletag and I'll help you Bilbo that furry, multi-lensed bastard. Also, what class are you? I could imagine a melee class having a harder time in that fight.

#24 Posted by Subjugation (4720 posts) -

Following your love/hate relationship with this game is fascinating.

#25 Posted by Turambar (6742 posts) -

What's incredibly annoying is that your check point differs between deaths and quest switching.  If the game is already going to log where to spawn you in from a death, or from logging out and logging back in, why use a different set for when you change quest lines?

#26 Edited by jakob187 (21665 posts) -

@Seppli said:

@TentPole said:

That is what I like to call - Pulling a Brad.

Odd - I always thought it was the game designers' job to ensure a certain standard of progression.

I'm taking it you never played Dark Souls...

Moreover, you've played through the game completely at least three times. You should know the roundabout areas where a checkpoint and progression happen. This isn't the designer's fault. It's your own at this point.

#27 Posted by planetary (348 posts) -

@Seppli said:

@TentPole said:

That is what I like to call - Pulling a Brad.

Odd - I always thought it was the game designers' job to ensure a certain standard of progression. To me it seems, just like they didn't balance Inferno difficulty with proper intent, they didn't set their chapter checkpoints with Inferno in mind. It's sloppy and haphazard design, and a slight to anyone who ventures into Inferno mode expecting the same level of polish as the rest of the game.

Going for 5+ hours of progress without a hard checkpoint is a grievous oversight, and it's certainly not us users to blame, if we lose that kind of time investment in progress to doing what comes natural. Taking a well deserved break, and farming a previous act. Fuck them for that.

Or it's intended to be a challenge.

#28 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@jakob187 said:

@Seppli said:

@TentPole said:

That is what I like to call - Pulling a Brad.

Odd - I always thought it was the game designers' job to ensure a certain standard of progression.

I'm taking it you never played Dark Souls...

Moreover, you've played through the game completely at least three times. You should know the roundabout areas where a checkpoint and progression happen. This isn't the designer's fault. It's your own at this point.

Played and beat both, lost maybe 15 minutes worth of Souls at the most while doing so. There is no randomness in the Soul's series design. Careful and well executed action leads to success, untarnished by random unavoidable cheap deaths.

Diablo III's Inferno difficulty lacks any intentful design, other than 'making it 3x more difficult than what our internal testers could handle', and hence beating Inferno often feels like 'failing successfully past broken shit'. I can beat pretty much everything the game throws at me in Inferno Act II - too bad almost all of it feels like failing.

In stark contrast to the Soul's series difficulty, everything about Diablo III's design in regards of Inferno difficulty feels haphazardly thrown together - just make it so hard, that all the cheap exploits will rear their ugly head, so that Blizzard can tare at the Inferno difficulty and general mechanics 'til it's fun for the broad masses. Not okay with this kinda bullshit.

I should know where progression happens? I completed multiple outdoor areas and dungeons, as well as plenty quest objectives. I've progressed through more than half of Act II. The lack of chapter entry points is a gross oversight. Even on lesser difficulties, you'd lose a ridicilous amount of progress, if you'd go an do something else, before killing Kul.

Diablo III ain't pure mana from heaven. Stop acting like it is. It's a brilliant game, but Inferno difficulty got major issues. Most of which come from a blantant lack of careful design. Blizzard never intended for Inferno to be any 'good' at launch. It's quite indefensible really - at least if you think of Diablo III as a 'finished' product.

#29 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@planetary said:

@Seppli said:

@TentPole said:

That is what I like to call - Pulling a Brad.

Odd - I always thought it was the game designers' job to ensure a certain standard of progression. To me it seems, just like they didn't balance Inferno difficulty with proper intent, they didn't set their chapter checkpoints with Inferno in mind. It's sloppy and haphazard design, and a slight to anyone who ventures into Inferno mode expecting the same level of polish as the rest of the game.

Going for 5+ hours of progress without a hard checkpoint is a grievous oversight, and it's certainly not us users to blame, if we lose that kind of time investment in progress to doing what comes natural. Taking a well deserved break, and farming a previous act. Fuck them for that.

Or it's intended to be a challenge.

Or saying it's meant to be challenging is just a convenient excuse for lack of intentful design and balancing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Blizzard will re-balance and reduce Inferno difficulty with future patches, doesn't that mean that Inferno isn't meant to be as it currently is?

Because that's happening. For certain. The wall built of careless design and utter dumbassery, that is Inferno Act II and beyond, will crumble - and make way for something more elaborate, designed with more care and intent.

#30 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8698 posts) -

I was waiting for this topic to happen, you're way into this game.
 
Still, sucks nonetheless, some parts of quests are freaking long, especially the ones you mentioned.

#31 Posted by jakob187 (21665 posts) -

@Seppli: I don't have a problem at all with the checkpoints so far on Inferno. Sooo...I don't know. I think it's just you in this situation, man.

Also, you definitely seem to have a lot of rage and hatred for a game that you continue to play.

#32 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@jakob187 said:

@Seppli: I don't have a problem at all with the checkpoints so far on Inferno. Sooo...I don't know. I think it's just you in this situation, man.

Also, you definitely seem to have a lot of rage and hatred for a game that you continue to play.

Rage and Hatred are my sustenance.

#33 Posted by Ketchupp (672 posts) -

Maybe this is just me but you should probably try chilling the fuck out.

#34 Posted by jakob187 (21665 posts) -

I want to see Seppli and Vinny do a quick look together of Inferno mode. Between Vinny's rage at Dark Souls and Seppli's rage at Diablo 3, I'm pretty sure we can contain all of the rage in the word and finally achieve world peace.

#35 Posted by yoshisaur (2708 posts) -

Your bordering on trolling now with all of this. Your theatrics are pretty much transparent at this point. Do yourself, and everyone in this forum a favor, and stop playing. That way your blood pressure settles and we are spared another pointless thread.

#36 Posted by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@jakob187: That is until Guild Wars 2 comes out. Then Seppli has something new to scream at!

#37 Posted by jakob187 (21665 posts) -

@Cloudenvy said:

@jakob187: That is until Guild Wars 2 comes out. Then Seppli has something new to scream at!

I'll be on Guild Wars 2 as well. I just know that I'll be playing Diablo 3 for many years to come...whereas I'll play Guild Wars 2 for, like, a year until they fail to deliver content fast enough.

#38 Posted by PixelPrinny (1030 posts) -

The checkpointing in the game is pretty bad. I remember at first wondering why the hell the game would never load me back up in the city when I logged out there and rolled back to areas I had visited up to an hour ago. I thought it was some rollback bug but nope, it's their amazing, state-of-the-art checkpoint system. Apparently setting up manual checkpoints whenever you visit a city was too hard or made too much sense?

#39 Posted by StarvingGamer (8156 posts) -
@Seppli I just wanted to say that with the meager 4 upgrades to gear I've gotten since reaching Inferno and doing 5 Butcher runs, I just made a solo run on Belial for the first time and on the third try almost made it to stage 3. Unfortunately I am now out to lunch with my family but as long as I play smart I see no reason why that asshole shouldn't be going down today.

I am at a meager 13k DPS with 38k hp but only like 50 in my highest resistance. I am running around in mostly level 50 gear and my pants are actually level 22 lol. I have received a total of 0 upgrades from Act II.

Basically my point is maybe the game isn't as imbalanced as you think.
#40 Posted by JP_Russell (1171 posts) -

For what it's worth, I agree with your assessment of inferno difficulty being as far from any kind of intelligent design as Blizzard could have gotten. Like you pointed out, they said as much themselves. It's basically a lump of clay they splatted on the end of the game so they could let it play out in the community and figure out how to make it not just a lump of clay later. Obviously they can only iron things out so much without observing the metagame in the community, but I agree that that crosses the line into just bad, senseless game design, regardless of the actual results.

I also agree that it's dumb that you can only jump around to the beginnings of individual quests. I see no good reason to disallow you from starting at any single checkpoint within each quest.

#41 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@StarvingGamer said:

@Seppli I just wanted to say that with the meager 4 upgrades to gear I've gotten since reaching Inferno and doing 5 Butcher runs, I just made a solo run on Belial for the first time and on the third try almost made it to stage 3. Unfortunately I am now out to lunch with my family but as long as I play smart I see no reason why that asshole shouldn't be going down today. I am at a meager 13k DPS with 38k hp but only like 50 in my highest resistance. I am running around in mostly level 50 gear and my pants are actually level 22 lol. I have received a total of 0 upgrades from Act II. Basically my point is maybe the game isn't as imbalanced as you think.

What's that got to do with the topic at hand? And I can slog through Act II just fine, it's just not much fun to me - that's all. What constitutes a fun 'hard' experience isn't up for debate in this thread, there's plenty others of those. I'm just venting about the ludicrous lack of chapter entrypoints for the second half of Act II - which is an appaling oversight in my eyes. Especially on Inferno.

But let's talk difficulty for a second, if we are at it. We both play Demon Hunters. A class particularly suited for solo endeavors, due to dealing bounds of ranged DPS and having multiple viable utilities/playstyles at our disposal enabling us to deliver our payload to our targets and eventually succeed. Regardless - we will die. A lot. Most of which are unavoidable and cheap deaths. When winning doesn't feel like winning, but more like losing - it's simply not well done high difficulty.

That's Demon Hunters, whom don't really have to give a fuck about anything but sporting a decent skill loadout and killer DPS. Most other classes have to worry about stacking ludicrous amounts of silly stats, translating into countless hours of grinding for gold. Can't fathom the amount of shit Barbs and such have to take, before they get past the statistical hump.

Achieving fun by reducing frustrations by ceaseless and soulless work. I heard grinding Act III on Hell is particularly effective for earning gold - go figure that's your most viable endgame activity. The reduction in frustration you've worked so hard for, is falsely being perceived as genuine fun, when in fact it's just the absence of frustration.

It's the kind of gamedesign that's rewarding like taking that really big shit - the one you had to hold in for way too long. That ultimate sense of relief is a great feeling, but did you ever want to hold in a shit for so long out of your own volition in the first place? It's usually a matter of circumstance. You were forced to keep that shit in. I'm kinda growing out of having an appreciation for that type of relief in videogames. It's no fun starting out, and there's really no good reason to keep that shit in my system to begin with. Why give a damn then?

Obsession and compulsion? What borders a on personality disorder is what justifies Inferno's current state and existence. Fuck that!

#42 Posted by Ares42 (2625 posts) -

@Turambar said:

What's incredibly annoying is that your check point differs between deaths and quest switching. If the game is already going to log where to spawn you in from a death, or from logging out and logging back in, why use a different set for when you change quest lines?

Because it's a checkpoint system ? When you replace the checkpoint with another one (by starting another quest) your last checkpoint is removed. Not only would it be really confusing if it saved every single checkpoint for every single quest you ever started and didn't completely finish, but it would completely change the farming dynamics of the game as you wouldn't be able to reset progression as easily.

I get that it can get annoying when you're at the point where you're trying to progress through the game but also need to farm a bit, but it actually does make sense.

#43 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@Ares42 said:

@Turambar said:

What's incredibly annoying is that your check point differs between deaths and quest switching. If the game is already going to log where to spawn you in from a death, or from logging out and logging back in, why use a different set for when you change quest lines?

Because it's a checkpoint system ? When you replace the checkpoint with another one (by starting another quest) your last checkpoint is removed. Not only would it be really confusing if it saved every single checkpoint for every single quest you ever started and didn't completely finish, but it would completely change the farming dynamics of the game as you wouldn't be able to reset progression as easily.

I get that it can get annoying when you're at the point where you're trying to progress through the game but also need to farm a bit, but it actually does make sense.

Yeah - because half an Act without what equates to a hard save makes a lot of sense. NOT.

It's an oversight that chapter entrypoints in Act II aren't set in a much more granular fashion. Even within Diablo III, there's no other precedent for it.

The checkpoint system as a whole feels unpolished, but it's functional mostly - though clearly that entire stretch from killing Magda to killing Kul, it's simply sloppy for it to be handled the way it is, being essentially half the Act without a single chapter entrypoint.

#44 Posted by Ares42 (2625 posts) -

@Seppli: I never said it made sense for the game to have long drawn out quests. I said it makes sense for the game to not store a seperate checkpoint for every single quest you ever started and didn't finish.

#45 Posted by GunslingerPanda (4711 posts) -

Sounds like you fucked up.

#46 Posted by cid798 (240 posts) -

I mean come on, I killed the high council and went into the durance of hate area but I was too dumb to get the waypoint. Now any game I make causes me to fight the high council again ? omgsrsly you guys ? Game is broke.

#47 Edited by benspyda (2033 posts) -

Why even play inferno if its so painful? Sure once I finish Hell I'll give it a go, but I'll probably just roll a new character cause I doubt its worth the pain. I don't understand people hating on the game design of the hardest difficulty in the game, its there for crazy people.

#48 Posted by valrog (3671 posts) -

So I take it you'll stop making threads now?

#49 Edited by Ouren (136 posts) -

Torchlight 2!

#50 Posted by Zomgfruitbunnies (771 posts) -

Hi, Seppli, you seem really upset. May I recommend some Minecraft? It is a very calming experience.

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