This is aimed at anyone who's sick or bored of Final Fantasy. I used to be a fan of the series, but much like the Giantbomb guys, I am totally done with anime princesses talking about paradigm paradoxes, and skipping around on semi-transparent panels in space.
There's a good chunk of stuff I like about the games, but I think the aesthetic and visuals and characters are all painfully boring.

I think they should have a grungey, smokey, slum-town underground Tokyo vibe, set it in alternate modern-day, throw out all the pretend-philosophical crap (maybe just be a little more subtle with it), but keep all the mages and summons and mythical demons n shit.

Like the first few hours of FF7. Or like Deus Ex but with more likable characters, and magic.
HERE'S A CLIP! from FullMetal Alchemist. It's set in a real brick-and-mortar universe where people drive regular cars and ride regular trains, but they're still casting spells all over the place (basically). I think genre-blending stuff like this, and Persona and some older Final Fantasy games are WAY easier to like.
I'd show some of Advent Children, but I can't find any of it on Youtube that isn't an anime music video :|

THAT'S MY PITCH!

Scrap it, it's time has long passed.

Lost Odyssey was kinda cool.

Just let it die.

They should give all their money to Atlus so they can make another SMT: Nocturne sooner rather than later.

You know there's still a shit ton of people that still like Final Fantasy, like me. There's nothing wrong with the game. It's just not appealing to half of the US apparently. Trust me, that game will still sale and everyone is just going to have to deal with it. Just like Call of Duty and World of Warcraft.

So...

The World Ends With You?

No thanks.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's something in need of fixing. Plenty of people still enjoy the games. If you don't, then play something else.

All I want is Kingdom Hearts combat, an overworld and airships.
 
Versus then, but as if thats ever coming out.

I agree some modern day stuff would be cool and a change of pace. Or they could go back to a throwback steam punk style ala FF6.

You just want to make Final Fantasy into Shadowrun. Not a bad idea, but here's a better one: make a new Shadowrun game!

@ShadowConqueror said:

Lost Odyssey was kinda cool.

No it wasn't.

They need to stop trying to make FF7 again. They also need a new art direction and a new character designer.

Actually, scrap that, they can do whatever the fuck they want to do, I'll just keep playing the Persona franchise. I kind of love watching everyone complaining about the FF franchise, so, that at least makes up for it all.

I think the direction of the Final Fantasy series is just fine. The only thing that has changed about the FF games is that the market has changed. JRPG's aren't what they used to be in the market and thats not from lack of good JRPG games thats the general markets change in taste. JRPG's still have a number of the same tropes that made them popular in the first place.

If you think FFVII was any better in the dialog your sadly mistaken. Horrible translation aside that game had the most self loathing whining character ever. Guess who? Did you answer Cloud Strife? Because thats the correct answer. Thats all cloud does is mope and have spiky hair and occasionally dress up like a woman (Oh god what I wouldn't pay to see THAT scene in HD). JRPG's have always had a overly melodramatic way of storytelling that is what makes them JRPG's. That being said... i still like FFVII but i seriously have to roll my eyes anytime anyone mentions that game as the "pinnacle" of JRPG game design.

So thats my take. JRPG quality has not gone down. Most people have just "moved on" in terms of what they expect out of games. Its a niche sub-genre for a niche audience at this point and the people who are boo-hoo'ing over the decline of the Final Fantasy series have some serious nostalgia fog going on.

oddly enough Square has the rights to fullmetal alchemist

They should let a western developer take a stab at it. What's Grin up to these days?

They should let a western developer take a stab at it. What's Grin up to these days?

The latest inclusion of monsters/pets as party members makes me think that they're trying to go the Pokémon/Persona route. Those are two of the more liked RPG series coming out of Japan, so that makes sense.

I'm with you on the rest of it. The aesthetics need to change. The fans that like the current direction are like the Sonic fans. They may be pleased by the results, but it's scaring away anyone else who was once interested in the series or might want to check it out.

I can't say where they should go. Maybe let the series lay low for a while. Maybe finally release Final Fantasy XIII - Versus. Maybe lose the pretentious story-telling and titles. If I had my way, I'd go with the first option. Let the franchise rest & heal. Especially after the Final Fantasy XIV debacle. Release some other games like the Seiken Densetsu series, or what have you. Or make some other, newer series. Stop trying to drive this one series & title into the ground.

There are more games that have Final Fantasy in the name than any other gaming franchise (even excluding ports).

If Square want to drastically change Final Fantasy, they really shouldn't try to rip-off VI or VII. They should rip-off Vagrant-mutha-fuckin'-Story.

I think they should keep doing what they're doing and everyone who doesn't like it should stop buying Final Fantasy games, kupo!

A few of the recommendations in this thread are actually in FFvsXIII. I just wonder where that went =/

Speaking as a longtime FF fan, I don't think the series needs to drastically reinvent itself; it has bits and pieces of a killer title in the last two main games alone. If they could structure a game like FFXII but with the combat mechanics of FFXIII and then add a plot, they could be onto a winner. As for the pseudo-anime aesthetic of the characters, I don't think that's the real problem. After all, many people here like the Persona games (myself included) and those have a stronger anime vibe. I think his characters suffer from overcomplicated designs; they have so many little added touches that just don't need to be there. If he stopped playing dress up and went back to a simpler design style, then I think the games may have more appeal.

Finally I have to address the music - WTF is up with the DMC styled boss battle theme? I honestly don't know what to say to that other than go back to the orchestral stuff. And bring back the world map.

This sounds like Versus XIII.

@Demoskinos said:

I think the direction of the Final Fantasy series is just fine. The only thing that has changed about the FF games is that the market has changed. JRPG's aren't what they used to be in the market and thats not from lack of good JRPG games thats the general markets change in taste. JRPG's still have a number of the same tropes that made them popular in the first place.

If you think FFVII was any better in the dialog your sadly mistaken. Horrible translation aside that game had the most self loathing whining character ever. Guess who? Did you answer Cloud Strife? Because thats the correct answer. Thats all cloud does is mope and have spiky hair and occasionally dress up like a woman (Oh god what I wouldn't pay to see THAT scene in HD). JRPG's have always had a overly melodramatic way of storytelling that is what makes them JRPG's. That being said... i still like FFVII but i seriously have to roll my eyes anytime anyone mentions that game as the "pinnacle" of JRPG game design.

So thats my take. JRPG quality has not gone down. Most people have just "moved on" in terms of what they expect out of games. Its a niche sub-genre for a niche audience at this point and the people who are boo-hoo'ing over the decline of the Final Fantasy series have some serious nostalgia fog going on.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You seem to get all your knowledge of Cloud from what they did to him after the game. considering that in game his personality is RADICALLY DIFFERENT. Lastly, people have not changed, make a fast turn-based RPG with a good plot and characters like FF VII and I will buy the shit out of it. I don't need ACTIVE TURN-BASED TIME BATTLE SYSTEM, or RANDOMLY GENERATED ELABORATE LEVELING SYSTEM, just let me fucking level up. The problem with the JRPG market is that they're too busy thinking they need to innovate the genre when that's not even close to what people want nor do I recall anyone ever asking.

@Hailinel said:

@demonknightinuyasha

They should let a western developer take a stab at it. What's Grin up to these days?

This is incredibly subtle humor or a display of ignorance. Not sure which.

Definitely the 'incredibly subtle humor' half, though I assumed it wouldn't be all that subtle or all that humorous >_>;;;

Wonder what is going on with Versus? It feels like it's been forever since I've heard anything about it...

@demonknightinuyasha said:

They should let a western developer take a stab at it. What's Grin up to these days?

Wasn't FFIX developed in Hawaii or something? I have no idea. And even if it was, it may have still been by eastern developers and not a subsidiary of Square in the U.S.

I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with the character designs themselves (though keep in mind, unlike ALOT of users on this sites, I LOVE Anime, but hey, thats just me) but I do have issues with the clothing designs the charaters have. Back on the PS1 era, I thought the characters clothing looked fine, but with 10 (which I love btw) they started doing stupid shit like having different parts of each clothing have some weird, flashy, neon color and having different sleeves much longer than the others (I'm looking at you, Titus). Then, with like KH, they got way more into the whole huge shoes, buckles, and overuse of open zippers that I don't care much for. Honestly, for me, if they kept the look of the characters the same, but got rid of the dumb, futuristic take on 80's clothing, I'd be just fine.

What I honestly think has been killing the series is the design structure. Now, I enjoyed XII alot, yet ALOT of people hated it just because it wasn't a traditional turn-based system (plus, given that it was a completely different system, it sorta fueled fire on the whole "there's no management on how they number games anymore" topic. As for XIII, they got the combat right, but a lot of other design issues got in the way. For one, not being able to control more then one party memeber was lame, and for me personally, I wouldn't have thought the whole "linearity" thing would've been an issue if the level design was much better. I mean, X was really linear, but X made up for it by having huge, expansive environments and good level design. XIII's level design was basically thin, stretched out hallways. If you ask me, and I'm probrally in the minority of this, but I think to spark fire back into that series, they NEED to return to their baisc structure from the SNES and PS1 days. I mean, look at Street Fighter 4 and Mortal Kombat, both games that were able to reignite fans by returning to their roots, but doing an interesting take on the formula. I think nostalgia can go a long way in bettering a franchise, and I feel like with the last few entry's in the series, they've been putting more of a focus on experimenting with new things, but straying too far from people love from it. I realize when it comes to JRPG design that a lot of people are tired of that basic formula, but given that enough people still love those older games, I honestly think making a traditionally structured FF game today, with controllable airships, freely-explorable overworlds, and a traditional but yet smart and interesting take on the ATB turn-based combat that lets you control EVERY chracter in your party would reignite some fans. Reply back to me if you agree, or you think I'm crazy, given how much text I put, you definately tell I've thought LONG AND HARD about the whole thing.

Sure why not

@CaptainCody: You completely contradict yourself. Your saying that you want turn based combat but you want them to innovate? FFXIII is an attempt at innovating on turn based combat. If they kept doing the same classic turn based thing like in Final Fantasy 6 again sure it might be cute for awhile but then people would complain that they were not innovating. And as I've said again Story and the enjoyment of the combat system are completely subjective things. The combat of XIII is on the top of my list for JRPG's I love the quick switching of the paradigms and the fast paced tempo it brings to the fights.

You more than free to not like FFXIII but you can't say they aren't innovating because they are but it seems like most people turned up their noses at it because its not what they were used to.

The FF Versus 13 aesthetic already does this sort of thing from what we've seen already taken done, they have a very distinctive art style from game to game that been pretty different doesn't need to be something else or it isn't FF.

I'd just want them to keep it simple.  Design it to be accessible by children, that way cut scenes wont go on for an hour and say nothing.  Less navel-gazing and more forward movement.  Dragon Quest and Pokemon games are made for all ages and you never see people wondering whats wrong with them.  They are what they are and the lines are clear.  That and they sell amazingly well.
 
Basically, stop making games for teenagers.  Teenagers are idiots.  Make games for everyone.
 
I realize that comes off a little too much like soapboxing and ignoring your topic - my point was that I think the settings and character costumes matter less than everyone realizes.

@I_smell: You do have an interesting point about the grungy slums. Not literally of course, but there's seems to be an undergoing issue about the characters being a bit out of reach. People can blame the art and all, but in the end the biggest flaw of FF games of late is that the characters and stories are a bit unrelatable.

Everything seems like it should work...But then everything is so pristine and well put together than it's difficult to believe theres any peril, even if the world is coming to an end.

@Demoskinos said:

@CaptainCody: You completely contradict yourself. Your saying that you want turn based combat but you want them to innovate? FFXIII is an attempt at innovating on turn based combat. If they kept doing the same classic turn based thing like in Final Fantasy 6 again sure it might be cute for awhile but then people would complain that they were not innovating. And as I've said again Story and the enjoyment of the combat system are completely subjective things. The combat of XIII is on the top of my list for JRPG's I love the quick switching of the paradigms and the fast paced tempo it brings to the fights.

You more than free to not like FFXIII but you can't say they aren't innovating because they are but it seems like most people turned up their noses at it because its not what they were used to.

I never said I want innovation. I don't, it is THE problem with JRPG's. If you want to be innovative, don't fucking make a JRPG. Unless, de-innovating is innovation in itself. Secondly, people who are negative will always speak out, you don't read threads about people complimenting the game because their is no discussion to be had, unlike hate threads. Also, XIII didn't innovate shit. What a combat system? This is nothing new, it's simply a hamper on what abilities you have access to to present some kind of dynamic. If you find that innovative you are easily amused.

@End_Boss said:

@ShadowConqueror said:

Lost Odyssey was kinda cool.

No it wasn't.

Sure it was.

Y'know I think Versus-13 actually does mix up the aesthetic in a way that's a bit closer to FF8 or something. So that's cool.
I forgot that was even a thing.
 

@DisquisedJustin

I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with the character designs themselves (though keep in mind, unlike ALOT of users on this sites, I LOVE Anime, but hey, thats just me) but I do have issues with the clothing designs the charaters have. Back on the PS1 era, I thought the characters clothing looked fine, but with 10 (which I love btw) they started doing stupid shit like having different parts of each clothing have some weird, flashy, neon color and having different sleeves much longer than the others (I'm looking at you, Titus). Then, with like KH, they got way more into the whole huge shoes, buckles, and overuse of open zippers that I don't care much for. Honestly, for me, if they kept the look of the characters the same, but got rid of the dumb, futuristic take on 80's clothing, I'd be just fine.

Sure why not

I'll determine whether or not I give up on Final Fantasy when I play Versus.

@CaptainCody: Out of all the things FFXIII brought to the table the combat system was the most consistently lauded more than anything else that it did by people who reviewed it.

Final Fantasy is fine, If you dont like it dont buy it. No one complained when Neir came out.

that descriptions sounds like ffvs13 and ff type=0 or at lest what I have played of ff type=0

I think Final Fantasy has brilliant art direction. I think Nomura draws some great characters and the settings are stunning. If there is one thing I wouldn't change with FF it would be the visuals. Why does every game have to have a gritty post-modern setting? I love cyber punk as much as the next guy, but there are plenty of games that do that style well. I would prefer FF to keep looking like FF. In all honesty I've never made it to the end of any FF game. I always give up partway through. Personally I really liked the direction they took with FF13. I hate random battles and slow paced JRPG combat, so I really liked the changes to both those systems. And the linearity didn't bother me. The story could have been better but I liked the fiction. Personally I'm interested to see how Versus does when and if it comes out.

Final Fantasy is in a very weird predicament, and it's a problem I don't want to think about really. But, I can't help but grow more uncomfortable around the FFVII fanboys. They literally have never played IV, VI, or really any other Final Fantasy that isn't II if they find THAT the pinnacle of the genre/series. I wish I could say that without saying, "fuck anyone who likes that game", but it just isn't as good as the others. It's either a nostalgia fucking bodysuit or just being that much in a vacuum; it's not good. I still cannot play that game past the halfway point (yes, I know full well the major plot points), but nothing about that game ever hooked me.
 
Well, now that that's out of the way, I was really disturbed by Ryan's comment about FFX-2 on the B'cast. I have a pretty good guess about how much X he has played, and if he thinks that what happens in X is anything other than really good in comparison to the ultimate cop-out of FF history, he's just being kind of dumb. 

Final Fantasy ended after FFX, nowadays the series lack any charm cause of the character design mainly, not neccesarily because of the grown-up look -Chrono Cross, FF8, Vagrant Story... etc have tons of charm -, just the design in general, they're not very likeable characters. It just feels like a generic and tedious JRPG, also the stories aren't attractive anymore, they lack the emotion and trepidation of FFVII, IX or older itinerations of the series or even other Square games like Chrono Trigger.

At some point, you just grow up, mature and realise that Japanese games designed for teenagers aren't for you. The melodrama is too much, the character designs are jaw-droppingly bad and the psuedo platitude ridden philosophy the game spews just doesn't fit with the mind of someone above the age of 21.

Then again, most games are like this.

I think Bioware should take over the franchise...

...God I can't wait for the replies...

@Demoskinos said:

@CaptainCody: Out of all the things FFXIII brought to the table the combat system was the most consistently lauded more than anything else that it did by people who reviewed it.

Yet, I wouldn't doubt it being as well lauded if they just made a traditional combat system. Yes, a good combat system will indeed be reviewed as good. That does not make it anything special.

So... You want Akira: fullmetal alchemist.

I'll just say this: I played Final Fantasy 6 for the first time 6 months ago, and loved it. I played XIII for the first time 3 months ago, and couldn't get past the first 5 hours. It just wasn't as, well, fun. To me, that is.

@Clinkz said:

@demonknightinuyasha said:

They should let a western developer take a stab at it. What's Grin up to these days?

Wasn't FFIX developed in Hawaii or something? I have no idea. And even if it was, it may have still been by eastern developers and not a subsidiary of Square in the U.S.

I think Square has (or at least had) an office in Hawaii. I know when they were making Spirits Within, they were doing it in Hawaii, not sure if that was their office or if it was just like someone they were contracting for it. I think it was theirs though and it's part of why they invested so much/lost so much from that movie.

At this point I am content to accept that Final Fantasy is not a series made for me with my interests in mind. Therefore, the only way they could change the series to better suit me would be to make it full of more melodramatic bullshit, nonsensical dialogue and actually kind of good combat so that the series can return to its pinnacle of equally genuine and ironic appeal. That pinnacle being Final Fantasy X-2 of course.