Why do people dislike Arkham Origins?

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Chocobodude3

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Sure its not the best Arkham game but its not a bad game by any stretch

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Sinusoidal

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#2  Edited By Sinusoidal

Not much room for discussion here, but I think it suffers from the recently invented (just now by myself) law of threes where the third game in a series is generally disappointing and regarded as not having lived up to the high standards set by the second game in the series. See Mass Effect, Uncharted, Dead Space and Gears of War for reference.

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Zapbrader

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I just personally didn't like how they teased us with Black Mask as the villain and then pulled the curtain on us with The Joker. Completely changed the entire story, although I guess they did call it Origins.

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Oscar__Explosion

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Although I do own it I've only played about an hour total, but from what I can tell it doesn't look like a bad game but to much of the same from Arkham City. There is no big leap like there was from Asylum to City. Also I remember that the UI looks ugly as hell.

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impartialgecko

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@sinusoidal: Gears of War 3 doesn't belong in your list as it's by far in a way the best game in that series.

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Rowr

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#6  Edited By Rowr

It was made by WB montreal as opposed to Rocksteady who did the first two, so it's sort of put into that category of "cash grab" sequels.

I haven't played it, but from what I've heard i'm sure it's competent.

Basically by the time you are getting around to the third game in a series people are already getting fatigued of the gameplay so these retreads tend to turn people off.

Also there's something about a different developer taking on a loved series that rubs people the wrong way. I'm sure most people consider the upcoming batman the true third game whilst this is sort of a side thing on it's own.

It's almost exactly the same as what borderlands the pre-sequel is. More of the same for people that are into it, but hardly the next step blockbuster that people want.

That said, it is what it is and there is no reason anyone shouldn't take it for that and enjoy it.

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Hunkulese

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@sinusoidal: Uncharted 3 and Gears 3 were the best in the series.

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musubi

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It was made by the B-Team and they cut some corners in development.

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sketchy

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doctordonkey

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I played all three back to back last year, and I enjoyed all of them. I think I enjoyed Origins the most, which is odd, considering it is definitely the one that lacks polish. There is a jankiness to the combat that isn't in the other two. I found myself dropping my combos a lot more, for two reasons. One, they increased the speed of the enemies, without increasing Batmans speed, so a lot of enemies can just throw out a quick jab really fast, and Batman is too slow to react in any meaningful way. Two, there is an issue with hits registering. Plenty of times I would hit X, and watch Batman fly over to an enemy, punch the air around him, and have my combo drop. This never happened in the other two games.

However, I love a good origin story, and I love how raw and brutal Batman is in Origins. Whenever he would interrogate someone in a cutscene, the hits sounded bone-crushingly nasty, so good. Also, I prefer Roger Craig Smith over Kevin Conroy. A lot of people really like Conroy as Batman, but I'm not a fan. I really couldn't tell you why I enjoyed Origins the most, but I did.

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chumley_marchbanks

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Because, compared to Arkham City, it's disappointingly shallow in how it evolves the series. It has the same progression structure, the same gadgets, the same UI, the same environments (just with some snow on top), and only a few new enemy types and mechanics. The most interesting about it is the story, but if that's the best reason to play a game in a series with one of the greatest combat systems of a generation then why even bother?

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bigsocrates

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Not much room for discussion here, but I think it suffers from the recently invented (just now by myself) law of threes where the third game in a series is generally disappointing and regarded as not having lived up to the high standards set by the second game in the series. See Mass Effect, Uncharted, Dead Space and Gears of War for reference.

What about Halo 3, Grand Theft Auto 3 (or San Andreas if you want to only talk about 3D releases) Saints Row 3?

A lot of third entries disappoint for the same reason the third movie in many trilogies is poorly received. The first work sets out the world and the characters. The second expands the scope and builds on the first, and the third just sort of stagnates.

That's the issue with Origins. Asylum was a new high watermark in superhero game design, City took that design into a big open world, and Origins...rehashed City but was a little bit worse. That doesn't mean it's a bad game objectively, but it's going to be poorly received as a follow up. Also Origins had a mediocre story and was buggy.

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hassun

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#13  Edited By hassun

These type of games are made by different teams, usually do not innovate or progress a series and are mostly made to squeeze more money out of a platform generation which while the original team concentrates in making the true next game in a series on a new platform.

Similar examples: Gears of War: Judgment, God of War: Ascension and -to a somewhat lesser extent- Dark Souls II.

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apexgus

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#14  Edited By apexgus

A couple of reasons, the biggest being that it does everything AC does but doesn't implement them as well as AC did.

Some things off the top of my head:

  • The traversal doesn't feel as good as it did in AC (seemed like there were fewer building that you could grapple to or something).
  • The Boss fights SEEMED better at first but then they devolved into encounters that only had one solution (might be wrong about this, but every time I tried to defeat a boss creatively I felt punished.)
  • The Riddler/Enigma content didn't feed into any mission content the way it did in AC and the way Enigma reused puzzles from AC just makes him seem like an idiot.
  • The way some GCR Comms Towers were restricted through story progression but there's no way to tell unless you bash your head against it, for instance I bypassed one tower that required the glue grenade by pulling a sweet aerial maneuver only to be met by a door that locked itself in front of me.
  • They introduced the batcave but didn't let you keep trophies. Ok, this one might be unfair but wouldn't it have been cool if you could keep a trophy from each boss encounter and then put it an case in the batcave? Also, giant penny side mission? Hello?
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Hunter5024

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Cause prequels are the worst.

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mems1224

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I liked it. I dont get all the hate either.

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Spoonman671

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For what it's worth, I don't like Arkham City either.

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rethla

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#18  Edited By rethla

It was janky and unpolished and very little effort was put into anything but making it a barebone copy of city. As a game its maybe an 3/5, throw in the money grab bit that always rubs people the wrong way and you have a dissapointing shitty game.

Edit: I also remember the devs released a hilarious statement a month after release. Something along the line of "we are aware the game is broken but we dont care we are gonna focus our development on paid DLC instead. Enjoy!".

I never bought any DLC for that game, wonder why? ...

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The_Nubster

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The core gameplay didn't change at all, but there were a lot of little tweaks that made the game feel "off." Rocksteady's games were always very carefully contructed, and this team made some minute changes without considering the effect it would have on the game as a whole.

One, the open world was bigger, but without a good way to travel around it. Batman still moved at about the same speed, but there was twice as much ground to cover and the only way to cross from the Arkham part of the city into Gotham proper was a huge bridge with shit-all going on. In City, getting around felt good; weaving your way between poles and over and under signs and buildings made you feel agile and slick. In Origins, gliding across a huge bridge while occasionally grappling was just boring. Aside from that, the city was just a bunch of open streets without anything to consider as you flew along. It incentivised fast traveling, and because of that, the world didn't seem as coherent and realised as Arkham City's.

Two, some small changes in enemy behaviour during combat and the introduction of a couple of enemies and new systems made combat feel worse than the previous two games. The enemies in Origins are much more aggressive and react more often to Batman's attacks. I've said before, it may be justified in the lore since Batman is just a myth at this point and no one knows how dangerous he is, but it reduces combat to standing around while waiting for an opportunity to counter. Unlocking the critical counter ability instead of critical strike just makes this a bigger problem, since it further rewards passiveness instead of aggression (which doesn't make sense in the lore, since Batman at this age is supposed to be kind of violent and reactionary). At some point, they introduce the Martial Artist enemy, who needs to be countered multiple times just to deflect one attack, and this is a problem since he can often fly in from off-screen with an attack primed. This interrupts the flow of combat, the rhythmic and steady tapping that used to be encouraged by critical strikes, and makes the player mash the counter button hurriedly in an attempt to block. The biggest problem with the combat, though, was the introduction of the Shock Gloves. Previously, the Arkham games have had enemies that can't be attacked from the front, can't be attacked at all, or can't be countered under any circumstances. This introduced a layer of complexity and strategy while fighting by making you consider exactly what you could and couldn't do. As soon as the Shock Gloves are brought into the equation, however, the combat loses any sense of depth or openness it had and allows the player to just flick them on when things get hairy and slam through any opposition without a second thought, regardless of what enemies were in the scenario.

Even though they didn't change a lot on its face, almost every change they did make was for the worse. I still played it and enjoyed it, especially some of the late-game story beats, but it lacks the polish and careful consideration of the earlier games.

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cornbredx

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I can't speak for other people. I played it recently and it was alright.

The story was bad and the voice acting on some characters was bad, but overall everything you come to the Arkham games for is still there and it plays fine. People's complaints about it are mostly unfounded. People should play origins- it's a good game for what matters (the moment to moment gameplay).

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BackupPanic

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#21  Edited By BackupPanic

@sinusoidal: Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory says Hi!

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Castiel

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#22  Edited By Castiel

For no reason at all. Origins is a pretty cool game and it has the best story of any of the Arkham games and it also has the best boss battles in the series. Actually Origins has the coolest looking boss battle of last generation hands down. That Deathstroke battle is fuckin' awesome!

Still not better than Asylum, which is easily in my top ten of the best games from the last ten years, but definitely better than that underwhelming piece of hot garbage known as Arkham City. Okay City wasn't that bad, but I'm one of the apparently few people on this site that found it inferior to Asylum.

The official ranking of the of the Arkham series so far:

1. Arkham Asylum

2. Arkham Origins

3. Arkham City

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cornbredx

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#23  Edited By cornbredx

@castiel: You're not alone. I liked Asylum more than City also.

I don't really agree with anything else you said, though.

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ToastMan

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I actually really liked Origins. Though I did play it only recently so I had quite a break from City, which might explain why I didn't mind the staleness of the gameplay that much.

That main thing that kept me playing, though, were the cut-scenes. Yes the story is pretty forgettable and yes, the voice acting is nothing special (even though I thought it fit the tone). What I did enjoy quite a bit, however, was the animation, lighting framing and everything that had to do with the cinematic nature of the game. Something about it clicked with me. Facial animation on the characters was great, the action sequences were shot great and flowed nicely. The whole package just felt like it used comic book stylization as reference, which is exactly what I'm looking for in a game like this.

I got this game on a good sale and I approached it with low expectations, but this aspect of the game caught me off guard which made me appreciate it quite a bit.

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koolaid

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Honestly, I felt it was a nice surprise. It felt like a phone in going into it and I did feel like I ran into a lot more bugs then the other games. But the story did go some interesting places.

It did not help that the story they teased seemed kinda lame. And that was because it wasn't even the real story. They tried to MGS2 us in reverse.

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joshwent

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#26  Edited By joshwent

@rethla said:

Edit: I also remember the devs released a hilarious statement a month after release. Something along the line of "we are aware the game is broken but we dont care we are gonna focus our development on paid DLC instead. Enjoy!".

That's (mostly) true, but it's really unfair to hold the devs accountable for that shitty move. There's no dev on the planet that wouldn't want the resources to polish their game as much as possible and squash every single bug, but that really comes down to a publisher decision. That wasn't WB Montreal saying, "Fuck you, we don't care.", it was them saying, "Sorry folks. We were forced to rush our first fucking game and now WB won't give us the resources to really finish it because they want to sell DLC instead."

Sill absolutely shitty, but place the blame where it belongs.

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domineeto

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@hunkulese: I agree Gears 3 is the best Gears game but U3 is definitely the worst Uncharted game, it's all spectacle and no substance. I'm fine with that because ND is best at making kinda shallow but exciting and incredibly well produced games, but Uncharted 3 just feels like Uncharted 2 with a larger budget and less attention to things like characters or a coherent story.

I feel that, like Origins, Uncharted 3 was made to make money and nothing else. Both where developed in lieu of the original developer or team, both kind of skirt around the core narrative arc (Origins by being a prequel and U3 by teasing Sully's or Nate's death and then completely abandoning that aspect of the story near the end) which makes them feel restricted from a creative standpoint. Both are fine games in their own right but underwhelming in comparison to their predecessors.

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FinalDasa

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#28 FinalDasa  Moderator

For me it had a lot to do with technical issues and similarities with Arkham City.

The game had the same map, with an additional island, and even had the same bosses in some cases and yet couldn't keep a decent frame rate. I enjoyed the tone of the game but it didn't feel like a complete product. It felt like pieces of different Batman puzzles all shoved together.

You can read my review of it here :D

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Fredchuckdave

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It didn't come out on PS+ but the other 2 did. Origins seems like it is a pretty janky game while the other 2 had incredible levels of polish, and while jank can be appealing for certain games if your series has a history of polish it isn't much of a selling point. Muy bien.

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Yummylee

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#30  Edited By Yummylee

@impartialgecko said:

@sinusoidal: Gears of War 3 doesn't belong in your list as it's by far in a way the best game in that series.

Yuuuuuuuuup. Also, while I could list plenty other examples of great third entries, I feel like Devil May Cry 3 and Metal Gear Solid 3 (both also prequels) should be enough.

EDIT: 22000th post yay me.

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Vod_Crack

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Those electric gloves were so dumb.

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ian280291

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Don't forget Assassin's creed 3 if were talking about sequels that don't live up to the first 2

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Yummylee

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Don't forget Assassin's creed 3 if were talking about sequels that don't live up to the first 2

In AC's case AC3 was technically trying to live up to the first... four.

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ian280291

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@yummylee: I dunno, they went a new direction with sailing, hunting and it wasn't ready for prime time...until Assassin's Creed IV BF when they executed the gameplay way better.

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BradBrains

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for me its was mostly too much too soon. it also seemed kinda souless.

I don't think its it a bad game.

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ShaggE

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The only problems I had with it was that the fighting felt "off" compared to the first two, and it didn't feel nearly as polished. Also, the new "crime scene" feature was way too underutilized.

But it was still a fantastic game.

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mbradley1992

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I feel like they were all different and annoying in different ways. Asylum was great, but I disliked some of the confinement, which is something I loved about City. I understand that Asylum had to be made that way. City felt like it wasn't a living breathing thing. Origins had some story and boss issues. Anyone who played knows what I mean, so I won't spoil anything. I will say that if you expect to fight a bunch of different assassins, think again.

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Zippedbinders

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I'm kind of playing through it right now, and its balance is definitely off if you play on Hard mode. Hard was rewarding on Asylum, but here its another bullshit numbers game, so I'm probably going to start over after that Deathstroke fight.

BUT, I actually like it a lot. I love the fact that none of the villains look like goddamn hobos. They look as well dressed as they do in the comics, instead of shit like cut off gloves and rolled up sleeves on The Riddler. I'm also playing the Wii U version, so I don't even have to think about the shitty multiplayer. I also thought it was really neat how they ask you for a fingerprint on the gamepad to access the cabinet where you can change costumes in the Batcave. There are some nice flourishes here and there, so while its not quite as exciting as Asylum or City for me, it still feels like the developers were trying to do something interesting.

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Shindig

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And its not like they could develop it with a bit of freedom as Rocksteady were not done with the series. WB were effectively keeping it warm and, as such, they can't develop it as a direct sequel and don't want to make such a hash of it that core fans ditch the series. So they take what rocksteady already did and play it safe.

Exactly the same stuff that's going on with Borderlands at the minute.

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katimanic

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It just felt more of the same.

The one part I did think was interesting was the multiplayer. It was executed rather poorly but I love asymmetrical multiplayer.

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alanm26v5

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#41  Edited By alanm26v5

I didn't get around to playing it until earlier this year, and I really enjoyed my time with it. I'm fine with "more of the same" if it's been a while since I played the last one and I liked it.

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Undeadpool

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I actually really liked it for the storyline and some great boss battles, both of which I feel like got a raw deal.

The problem is that, with a game this lengthy and involved, if you're not already invested in the Batman lore/story, it's not going to matter because the gameplay is INCREDIBLY...also-ran. It's actually hard to put into words, but it's not JUST that it's similar mechanics, something just felt "off" about it. The flow felt more staccato, the hits weren't as hard, it just felt...ehhhh.

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2HeadedNinja

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*shrug* I liked it. And honestly I feel some of those "the game was off"-comments are crazy. Origins played just as well as City did.

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GunstarRed

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I didn't dislike it, but really didn't care for some of the changes. It also broke on me a bunch of times and the bosses rely too heavy on lesser enemies to up the challenge. It's a real shame that the team that made the most inferior of the Arkham games did some really great stuff with the storytelling. Asylum and City are great at making you feel like Batman, but have pretty poor Batman stories. Origins has some really great stuff, especially with the joker.

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Mortuss_Zero

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I do think it's the worst of the three, but I liked it quite well. It did some some... lack of polish comparatively, and had some more bugs. It had lesser known villains, but I like that personally. The enemies showed a little more variety in types, which is good. The shock gauntlets really do trivialize everything though, they kill the sense that you could actually lose.

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saucygiraffe

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#46  Edited By saucygiraffe

It's not bad, but it's not great. Little things like the awkward city navigation (you can't grapple on certain buildings for no apparent reason), the fact that it felt extremely familiar to Arkham City, and the pacing of the story made it feel mediocre when compared to the Rocksteady games. Oh, and the game was kind of buggy as hell.

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thomasnash

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#47  Edited By thomasnash

@ian280291 said:

@yummylee: I dunno, they went a new direction with sailing, hunting and it wasn't ready for prime time...until Assassin's Creed IV BF when they executed the gameplay way better.

I know this is off topic but I just want to disagree with you quickly because I'm a jerk. I'll maybe concede that ACIV played a little better on land, but I thought the naval combat was cobblers compared to what there was in III, and nowhere near entertaining enough to carry the game.

As for Arkham Origins, I think the main reason I couldn't finish it was because of the changes to combat. After two games of punch-punch-punch-counter I found this hard to adjust to. It felt a lot less rhythmic and consequently a lot less fun. I assumed that this was a deliberate design choice to stop the combat becoming too automatic, and assumed this was me not being esports enough, to be honest.

I do agree with the person who said the traversal was a lot less fun, though. The bridge was pretty bad (although city had a similar annoyance with the big wall in the middle of the map), but what really killed it was the lack of grapple points. Again, maybe a deliberate choice to get people to glide and dive a bit more, but it really breaks the flow.

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korwin

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@castiel said:

For no reason at all. Origins is a pretty cool game and it has the best story of any of the Arkham games and it also has the best boss battles in the series. Actually Origins has the coolest looking boss battle of last generation hands down. That Deathstroke battle is fuckin' awesome!

Still not better than Asylum, which is easily in my top ten of the best games from the last ten years, but definitely better than that underwhelming piece of hot garbage known as Arkham City. Okay City wasn't that bad, but I'm one of the apparently few people on this site that found it inferior to Asylum.

The official ranking of the of the Arkham series so far:

1. Arkham Asylum

2. Arkham Origins

3. Arkham City

City was actually better on NG+, purely because you didn't have 80 thousand pieces of Riddler trophy bullshit to wade through and as a result everything just seemed to flow better.

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amafi

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It felt like the combat timing was a tiny bit off compared to asylum and city, but it only took about 10 minutes to get used to it and not messing up combos.

I liked it fine, not quite as good as asylum, probably mostly because of the impact that game had, but I think it's on par with city.

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Crysack

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There's something busted about the combat in Origins. It doesn't feel anywhere near as smooth and odd situations like Batman ending up stunlocked in a corner happen way more often. The game is also riddled with bugs.