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#1 Edited by Praxis (257 posts) -

Since separate pages for character alter egos were nixed a while ago by the staff, these three pages should be rolled together.

#2 Posted by Video_Game_King (36004 posts) -

Sheik should definitely be combined, but I'm not so sure about Tetra. Isn't she treated as a separate enough character to deserve her own page? Hell, for a lot of the story, we don't even know she's Zelda, and she really doesn't behave as such.

#3 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -

I'm pretty sure this was discussed a long time ago and it was decided the pages should be kept separate.....I think one of the reasons given was that Shiek is her own character in the Super Smash Bros. series with separate characteristics and her own move set.

#4 Edited by dekkadekkadekka (726 posts) -

@Guided_By_Tigers said:

I'm pretty sure this was discussed a long time ago and it was decided the pages should be kept separate.....I think one of the reasons given was that Shiek is her own character in the Super Smash Bros. series with separate characteristics and her own move set.

I'm sure this was also brought up before but they're one character, you switch between them using a special move. This would mean that Zero Suit Samus deserves her own page for the exact same reasoning, but that's just listed as an alias of Samus (and rightly so.)

@Video_Game_King said:

Sheik should definitely be combined, but I'm not so sure about Tetra. Isn't she treated as a separate enough character to deserve her own page? Hell, for a lot of the story, we don't even know she's Zelda, and she really doesn't behave as such.

I think Tetra is revealed as a descendant of Zelda from a long time ago prior to the world flooding. So I would assume that she does deserve her own page, but then this could open the door to every individual Zelda having their own page based upon that Zelda timeline which, real or not, lists every single instance. I think it would be a nightmare and redundant to list them all separately. Likewise this would also mean separate pages for every Link, every instance of Ganon... it's just not practical in my opinion.

Conclusion: I think it should be a single page for each character and detailed instances of individual appearances in the games. In my opinion.

Also, as seen in this video, Sheik and Zelda are clearly the same person; the language spoken by both (albeit not voiced at all) carries the same tone and weight (you might want to mute this.)

#5 Posted by Irvandus (2826 posts) -

I disagree, Tetra is a maybe but Sheik should definitely be her own page.

#6 Posted by TobbRobb (4579 posts) -

You could probably involve sheik in the same page as Zelda. But I think Tetra is different enough to have her own.

#7 Posted by Praxis (257 posts) -

@Video_Game_King: It's spelled out pretty early on by Ganon that Tetra = Zelda, so even though she might not know it, the player does. Sure, she doesn't act like "archetypal" Zelda, but she fits into the Link-Zelda-Ganon trinity in the same way that all other Zeldas do.

@Guided_By_Tigers: Like dekkadekkadekka said, you can only access Sheik by first selecting Zelda and then transforming into him/her once the match starts, so this justification doesn't really hold up.

@dekkadekkadekka: I'm not really worried that these pages will open the floodgates for more Zelda, Link, and Ganon pages, though I do agree with you that technical accuracy shouldn't trump basic usability. The Tetra and Sheik personas exist mostly to lend the Zeldas of their respective games a different flavor, and there's nothing about them that can't be summed up within the confines of the Zelda page.

@Irvandus: Care to elaborate?

#8 Posted by Video_Game_King (36004 posts) -

@Praxis:

What about in Phantom Hourglass, though? Her Zelda-ness doesn't even come up there; she's Tetra, and nobody else, at least in that context. Also, Tetra's Trackers.

#9 Posted by Praxis (257 posts) -

@Video_Game_King: I guess I don't see this as contradictory to my request. If Nintendo had created a side story game about the exploits of Sheik, that wouldn't negate the fact that Sheik is Zelda.

#10 Edited by Otzlowe (337 posts) -

I think Sheik and Zelda should be combined, but I feel like Tetra has a decent reason to be listed separately. Even though it sort of introduces the concepts of iterations of Link, Zelda and Ganon(dorf), Tetra is separate from Zelda in WW for a larger part of the game and almost entirely in Phantom Hourglass.

I think Tetra has been featured enough as her own persona for it to be justifiable, wheras Sheik was clearly only an alias (even if Tetra is an alias of Zelda as well). If Sheik ever gets a game where "he" is prominently featured as just Sheik, I'd say the same of "him" at that point as well.

#11 Posted by Video_Game_King (36004 posts) -

@Praxis:

But they didn't, so it's not really a relevant concern.

#12 Posted by Praxis (257 posts) -

@Video_Game_King: Let me rephrase that, then. Wind Waker previously established Tetra as the Princess Zelda of her particular timeline. How exactly does Phantom Hourglass throw a monkey wrench into this?

#13 Posted by Video_Game_King (36004 posts) -

@Praxis:

Because the fact that she is Zelda is never relevant to that game. In that context, she is only Tetra, so it wouldn't make sense to say that Zelda appeared in Phantom Hourglass.

#14 Posted by dekkadekkadekka (726 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

@Praxis:

Because the fact that she is Zelda is never relevant to that game. In that context, she is only Tetra, so it wouldn't make sense to say that Zelda appeared in Phantom Hourglass.

But she is called that by the pirates, and she chides them for calling her that:

"I told you not to call me Zelda! Tetra worked just fine before, you know."

Source: http://www.zeldawiki.org/Tetra#cite_note-23 So it would appear to be clear that she acknowledges that she is Zelda, but prefers Tetra.

#15 Posted by Praxis (257 posts) -

@Video_Game_King: The fact that she is Zelda may or may not be relevant to that particular game, but it is still a fact. By having two separate pages, we are implying that Zelda and Tetra are two different people, which is not the case.

#16 Edited by Superkenon (1391 posts) -

I'm kinda torn on this, but I think @dekkadekkadekka's point is a good one. If Tetra has her own page because she's 'a separate character', then following that logic every incarnation should have her own page, as (almost) none of them are truly the same Zelda.

I don't believe it's too much information for one page anyway (especially as is, the three pages in question being so small they're barely worth clicking). It just looks better, and is less confusing for anyone outside the know, if all this information is consolidated into one page and explained. If we're picking and choosing which Zeldas 'deserve' their own page, then it could become messy to onlookers. Probably for the best if they're all merged. If it gets to a point where the Zelda page is somehow too big, then we can have this conversation again, heheh.

#17 Posted by Video_Game_King (36004 posts) -

@Praxis said:

By having two separate pages, we are implying that Zelda and Tetra are two different people, which is not the case.

It kind of is, though; a person can have multiple identities, you know. Besides, isn't there already some precedent for a lot of this? The Persona 4 Shadows each have their own page, despite being established as being part of the person they're shadowing, and isn't Mega Man X the same Mega Man as before? (Then again, I'm not too savvy on Mega Man canon, so it's possible that one's false.)

#18 Edited by dekkadekkadekka (726 posts) -

I think the easiest solution for this issue, by far, is to create concept pages for Zelda and Link, in the same vein that Cid is both a concept and multiple characters. We could then keep the current pages and potentially create ones for each Zelda/Link, again, in the same way as Cid. I would be against multiple Link/Zelda pages, but fuck it, it's not my wiki.

#19 Posted by LordAndrew (14424 posts) -

Our Link and Zelda pages refer to not a single character, but multiple incarnations, descendants of the original Link and Zelda, also sharing their names. Tetra fits that description. She is referred to as Zelda. Just like all other Zeldas, she is descendant of the original Zelda, the goddess Hylia.

As for Sheik, I point to the absence of character pages for fighting game "characters" like Evil Ryu and Devil Jin. I assure you, the absence is intentional.

#20 Posted by JackSukeru (5903 posts) -

@Video_Game_King: Mega Man and Mega Man X are separate people, aside from physical differences like size and eye color, one is left handed and one is right handed, one has free will and the other doesn't. They were built by the same creator but it was never suggested that one was converted into the other.

As for this thread, I agree that the pages should be combined into one "Zelda" page, be that a character page or a concept page, with Tetra and Sheik as aliases and the possibility of having a section for each incarnation e.g. "In Wind Waker" or "In Skyward Sword". For the Smah Bros section, just bring up both Zelda & Shiek like this:

Smash Bros Section

In Melee

  • Zelda Stuff
  • Sheik Stuff

In Brawl

  • Zelda Stuff
  • Sheik Stuff
#21 Posted by Praxis (257 posts) -

@Video_Game_King: This has been said by a couple other people here in different ways, but I think it bears repeating that the character pages for Link, Zelda, and Ganon are really devoted to a procession of characters that represent particular character archetypes in the Zelda franchise. It is tempting to want to separate Tetra from the Zelda archetype because she differs from previous incarnations in some ways, but she is still an undeniable part of that lineage. Also, I'm pretty sure Mega Man X isn't the same robot :P

@dekkadekkadekka: Oh man, that's a true nightmare scenario you're describing.

#22 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -

@Praxis: Yeah, I don't agree with it.....I think they should be combined.

#23 Posted by Marino (4598 posts) -

@Praxis: These pages have been consolidated.

Staff