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#101 Posted by NekuSakuraba (7240 posts) -

In that case, why aren't Zelda and Link's default image changed into the recent style seen Skyward sword? Isn't it better to have only one rule, whether it be the most recent style or the most iconic one?

#102 Posted by TruthTellah (8409 posts) -

I think this image of Dante from Deviant Art should be the default image.

It's more recent than the new DMC game's art, and people should be ashamed of themselves if they replace my preferred image with a different one.

Online
#103 Posted by FLStyle (4528 posts) -

This thread has been quite amusing, allow me to enter the discussion.

  • I am your phantom image changer
  • Project X Zone is a 2012 release, which if I'm right in my understanding of the rules makes images of Dante in that game, namely the "Classic" Dante image, a legitimate main page image
  • DmC Devil May Cry does not release until 2013, so if an image of the new Dante goes up as the main page (which I don't think it should regardless), it can be held off until January
  • I left the Vergil page alone because I've yet to see a promotional or in-game image of Vergil in Project X Zone
  • Due to the content of the Dante page, which is focused mainly on Classic Dante, that Classic Dante should feature as the default image
  • Due to the Classic Dante being more recognisable, having been in many more games and being the original design by his creator, Hideki Kamiya, that Classic Dante should feature as the default image
  • I have no personal issues with the look of new or old Dante and Vergil, which I believe I display in my neutrally written sections of "Alternate" Dante and Vergil on their respective pages.
#104 Posted by TheSouthernDandy (3759 posts) -

@ProfessorEss said:

Can't we all just get along?

Boom. Solved it. Move along folks.

#105 Posted by Enigma777 (6057 posts) -

Old Dante was in 3 games (not counting spin-offs and guest appearances). New Dante is in one game. Seniority rules, bitch!

#106 Posted by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

@NekuSakuraba: Yah, also technically the Gannon page isn't even a picture of Gannon, its a picture of Gannondorf.

#107 Edited by Yummylee (21204 posts) -

@SlightConfuse said:

i really cant think of another instance where the main character of a game has gone under such a radical redesign.

Edward Carnby? He was like a Gentleman during the early AiTD games, then New Nightmare came and turned him into some ''badass'' trench-coat wearing badass badass. Then there's the current generation game that kinda kept the Badass motif, took it into modern day, and gave him Max Payne's voice actor for that extra dose of badassery.

#108 Posted by LiquidPrince (15833 posts) -

@Yummylee said:

@LiquidPrince: And what is considered the most recognisable is completely subjective. Should we then proceed to tally up which outfit Dante has worn the most and then choose that one as his most ''recognisable''? Maybe we check the numbers of which DMC game sold the most (oh, and the anime!) and use that to determine which Dante is the most ''recognisable''?

In any case you don't make the rules and neither do I, and all that's left now is to wait on the verdict, and perhaps some added clarity, from zombiepie. If the staff/mods decide that classic Dante (but which iteration of classic Dante! Oh Noes!) is to be put up, then so be it. If NT Dante is to be given his own alternate page, then all the better. That and The Prince will require his own as well, considering he has his own 'alternative' iteration.

Not really. It's quite easy to quantify the number of people who recognize which Dante as canonical or most well recognized Dante. In fact I just texted 10 of my friends, some who are avid gamers, and some who are not, half female and half male, and 8 of them described a white haired dude with a red coat, one asked me which Dante I was referring to (IE DmC or DMC), and one had no idea who the character was. If you want to argue which Dante is more recognizable as the protagonist of the Devil May Cry games, I don't think you would win.

Anyways, like I said before I honestly don't care what ends up on that page. Just that I think having the page represent the most iconic version of the character it is about makes the most sense.

Also, on the Prince page, it says the prince's real name is Dastan. This is false. That was only his movie name, and not a name mentioned in any of the games. So you may want to edit that out.

#109 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7039 posts) -
@Enigma777
Old Dante was in 3 games (not counting spin-offs and guest appearances). New Dante is in one game. Seniority rules, bitch!
Old Dante was in DMC2. That's an unforgivable sin.
#110 Edited by I_smell (3925 posts) -
@Yummylee said:

@I_smell said:

Also Vergil's probably fine because I THINK he's popped up in like one game ever. Ninja Theory could easily make me forget what the old one looked like.

Oh-My-God, see! This is the problem here! Oh, so classic Vergil's fine for you just because he only starred in one (well, two technically) game? But then think of the inconsistency as Dante has up original Dante and Vergil is being represented by Reboots Inc.

Nobody cares if portraits of characters from the same franchise are canonically synced, you're like generating beef here. This is phantom beef.
#111 Posted by psylah (2161 posts) -

@Yummylee said:

@SlightConfuse said:

i really cant think of another instance where the main character of a game has gone under such a radical redesign.

Edward Carnby? He was like a Gentleman during the early AoTD games, then New Nightmare came and turned him into some ''badass'' trench-coat wearing badass badass. Then there's the current generation game that kinda kept the Badass motif, took it into modern day, and gave him Max Payne's voice actor for that extra dose of badassery.

Ethan Thomas from Condemned: Criminal Origins and Condemned 2: Bloodshot .

#112 Posted by falserelic (5274 posts) -

Damn, its aswome to see a heated argument occur over Dante's design.....

Online
#113 Posted by FateOfNever (1809 posts) -

On an unrelated note, I just wanted to say that topics like this always inevitably result in me doing work on a wiki page. This time it was Mega Man related.

#114 Posted by Genkkaku (732 posts) -

@Yummylee said:

@SlightConfuse said:

i really cant think of another instance where the main character of a game has gone under such a radical redesign.

Edward Carnby? He was like a Gentleman during the early AiTD games, then New Nightmare came and turned him into some ''badass'' trench-coat wearing badass badass. Then there's the current generation game that kinda kept the Badass motif, took it into modern day, and gave him Max Payne's voice actor for that extra dose of badassery.

I should really play Alone in the Dark

#115 Posted by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

Its like a ship of fools in here, arguing with twisted logic, saying one thing one post then saying the exact opposest the next.

#116 Posted by TheHT (10804 posts) -

@Dagbiker said:

@NekuSakuraba: Yah, also technically the Gannon page isn't even a picture of Gannon, its a picture of Gannondorf.

Mother of god...

#117 Posted by LiquidPrince (15833 posts) -

@Dagbiker said:

Its like a ship of fools in here, arguing with twisted logic, saying one thing one post then saying the exact opposest the next.

I've felt my argument to be fairly consistent.

#118 Edited by Yummylee (21204 posts) -

@FLStyle said:

This thread has been quite amusing, allow me to enter the discussion.

  • I am your phantom image changer
  • Project X Zone is a 2012 release, which if I'm right in my understanding of the rules makes images of Dante in that game, namely the "Classic" Dante image, a legitimate main page image
  • DmC Devil May Cry does not release until 2013, so if an image of the new Dante goes up as the main page (which I don't think it should regardless), it can be held off until January
  • I left the Vergil page alone because I've yet to see a promotional or in-game image of Vergil in Project X Zone
  • Due to the content of the Dante page, which is focused mainly on Classic Dante, that Classic Dante should feature as the default image
  • Due to the Classic Dante being more recognisable, having been in many more games and being the original design by his creator, Hideki Kamiya, that Classic Dante should feature as the default image
  • I have no personal issues with the look of new or old Dante and Vergil, which I believe I display in my neutrally written sections of "Alternate" Dante and Vergil on their respective pages.
  • You were my first and only suspect.
  • It's a Japanese 2012 release, the wiki only follows the US thread of things--boxart for games, if possible, must be the US version just as an example--so that image is irrelevant. Also because it's a spin-off, it shouldn't count anyway. Even if the NT DMC game didn't even exist, Dante's picture would best fit his DMC4 appearance for the same reason as to why I've been debating for NT Dante to carry on the mantel.
  • So you're actually saying that you find New Vergil to be perfectly acceptable for the Vergil page? Despite the inconsistency it creates mixing up the old and the new against characters like Dante?
  • This is why NT Dante may serve best as an alternate character, but then that would also set in motion the chain of many other characters who may require alternate character pages to represent their reboot/reimagining/ect. appearances.
  • Character images dependant on what's most 'recognisable' is incredibly subjective, and it leaves such character pages like The Prince, Lara Croft, Edward Carnby up for a lot of debate as to which iteration fits each character. A lot of unnecessary hassle when it would be easier to just stick each character page with how they currently look across their main series -- spin-offs, again, shouldn't count.
  • Mk

And with that, I think it's time I finally go to bed. I imagine the case will be closed by the staff when I next wake up anyway. So whatever happens, happens.

@Dagbiker said:

Its like a ship of fools in here, arguing with twisted logic, saying one thing one post then saying the exact opposest the next.

And speak for yourself.

#119 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8060 posts) -

Hey what's going on in this thread?

#120 Posted by Yummylee (21204 posts) -

@Guided_By_Tigers said:

Hey what's going on in this thread?

A completely healthy discussion.

#121 Posted by ahgunsillyo (443 posts) -

@SlightConfuse said:



i feel like everyone should see that sweet hat

HOHOOOO, that is one amazing hat. DANG!

#122 Posted by NekuSakuraba (7240 posts) -
@Guided_By_Tigers

Hey what's going on in this thread?

Mayhem... Bloodlust... War.

Those are the very things that will drive a man to insanity, if he shall prevail and become sane again is yet to be seen. One thing is certain however, when tyranny comes into this place, there will be no man left unharmed by the mighty power of justice and the war will reign for several nights until no man is left...

That is the power of justice.
#123 Posted by TruthTellah (8409 posts) -

I was going to say how this whole discussion is like the very definition of quibbling.

But then I realized how absurd that would be to point out in a forum thread.

Please do continue. Once you resolve this piece of policy minutiae, I hope you'll let everyone know for the future. :)

Online
#124 Posted by gla55jAw (2685 posts) -

I'm not going to read through all of these posts and I apologize if this has been brought to attention, but someone on the first or second page recommended separate pages, since they are different 'people'. I thought that made sense, BUT I just read through the 'Add a Character' section, which reads:

The stars of the games you play, characters must be specifically named, and must display unique personality within either the gameplay or the story of the game to merit a page. Variations on a specific character do not merit their own pages. For example, Mega Man, Mega Man X, and MegaMan.exe are all listed under a main Mega Man page.

So, someone should get on top of that.

As for the picture thing, I guess it's kind of a dumb pride thing. Maybe we should get some more rules from the higher duders on this if it's going to be a problem. Eventually someone will give up, or not...

#125 Edited by egg (1450 posts) -

I pointed out the Mega Man clause before. Apparently it's not corrected (the FAQ page, not the fact the various Mega Mans are listed separately) because the FAQ is going to be revamped anyway. Or something. Seems pretty sloppy if you ask me to leave an FAQ page to say something that is obviously not reflected on the site.

As for this thread

why in god's name did you assume the character page must always show the most recent iteration.

#126 Posted by GrantHeaslip (1502 posts) -

People ridiculing this thread need to realize this is why we have good things. This seems like a legitimately grey area, and if people weren't debating this kind of thing, the wiki would probably be a mess. Sure, it's pretty nitpicky, but we're posting on a video game forum.

#127 Posted by Commisar123 (1790 posts) -

Eh leave the iconic image, that makes the most sense to me.

#128 Posted by TruthTellah (8409 posts) -

@GrantHeaslip said:

People ridiculing this thread need to realize this is why we have good things. This seems like a legitimately grey area, and if people weren't debating this kind of thing, the wiki would probably be a mess. Sure, it's pretty nitpicky, but we're posting on a video game forum.

heh. I think many people's issue comes from how accusatory the original post was and how angry people seemed about it. Eventually it developed into an okay back and forth, but it gave a poor first impression.

Online
#129 Posted by Hailinel (23677 posts) -

@Yummylee said:

@FLStyle said:

This thread has been quite amusing, allow me to enter the discussion.

  • I am your phantom image changer
  • Project X Zone is a 2012 release, which if I'm right in my understanding of the rules makes images of Dante in that game, namely the "Classic" Dante image, a legitimate main page image
  • DmC Devil May Cry does not release until 2013, so if an image of the new Dante goes up as the main page (which I don't think it should regardless), it can be held off until January
  • I left the Vergil page alone because I've yet to see a promotional or in-game image of Vergil in Project X Zone
  • Due to the content of the Dante page, which is focused mainly on Classic Dante, that Classic Dante should feature as the default image
  • Due to the Classic Dante being more recognisable, having been in many more games and being the original design by his creator, Hideki Kamiya, that Classic Dante should feature as the default image
  • I have no personal issues with the look of new or old Dante and Vergil, which I believe I display in my neutrally written sections of "Alternate" Dante and Vergil on their respective pages.
  • You were my first and only suspect.
  • It's a Japanese 2012 release, the wiki only follows the US thread of things--boxart for games, if possible, must be the US version just as an example--so that image is irrelevant. Also because it's a spin-off, it shouldn't count anyway. Even if the NT DMC game didn't even exist, Dante's picture would best fit his DMC4 appearance for the same reason as to why I've been debating for NT Dante to carry on the mantel.
  • So you're actually saying that you find New Vergil to be perfectly acceptable for the Vergil page? Despite the inconsistency it creates mixing up the old and the new against characters like Dante?
  • This is why NT Dante may serve best as an alternate character, but then that would also set in motion the chain of many other characters who may require alternate character pages to represent their reboot/reimagining/ect. appearances.
  • Character images dependant on what's most 'recognisable' is incredibly subjective, and it leaves such character pages like The Prince, Lara Croft, Edward Carnby up for a lot of debate as to which iteration fits each character. A lot of unnecessary hassle when it would be easier to just stick each character page with how they currently look across their main series -- spin-offs, again, shouldn't count.
  • Mk

And with that, I think it's time I finally go to bed. I imagine the case will be closed by the staff when I next wake up anyway. So whatever happens, happens.

@Dagbiker said:

Its like a ship of fools in here, arguing with twisted logic, saying one thing one post then saying the exact opposest the next.

And speak for yourself.

Project X Zone may receive a 2013 North American release. Namco is investigating the possibility of localization. Even so, it's yet another game that features classic Dante, whereas new Dante appears in only two games thus far, DmC, and PlayStation All-Stars. There is absolutely no guarantee that the new Dante will be in any other games after DmC, as it's possible (not a guarantee, but it's possible) that new Dante will be so poorly received that Capcom will retreat back to the original Dante.

To be clear, I am in favor of setting classic Dante to the default image, and once got into a back-and-forth with someone else who insisted on the new Dante to the point that he actually started deleting classic Dante images from the gallery so that I couldn't use them as the default image.

Which is fucking retarded.

Online
#130 Posted by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

They must really be debating it in the GB office. It's already 12:45 and no word from Jeff.

#131 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

It's a new character so should have a different page/

#132 Posted by MikkaQ (10263 posts) -

Who cares? I say pick the one that best represents the character, period. In this case, I think it's probably old Dante, just because we barely know the new one. If his look takes over the mindshare, then yeah change it.

Obviously that's a completely subjective method and isn't easy to implement, but this wiki is hardly objective, is it?

#133 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7039 posts) -
@Bourbon_Warrior

It's a new character so should have a different page/

It's a new version of the same character so a different page isn't an option.
#134 Posted by Zippedbinders (983 posts) -

@MikkaQ said:

Who cares? I say pick the one that best represents the character, period. In this case, I think it's probably old Dante, just because we barely know the new one. If his look takes over the mindshare, then yeah change it.

Obviously that's a completely subjective method and isn't easy to implement, but this wiki is hardly objective, is it?

Its probably been said numerous times, but this. Pacman's default image is a pixelated cheese wheel because thats what we know him most as. Mickey Mouse's image is a black and white shot from the 30s, Spider-Man's is MVC3 art and not something from the newest game, etc. Default Dante should be something representative of his most common appearance, and then have a section in the article about DmC Dante with the character art for that. This seems pretty cut and dry, so I don't even know how its an issue.

#135 Posted by SpaceRunaway (826 posts) -

Jesus is this still going on

#136 Posted by NekuSakuraba (7240 posts) -

So.... What is the verdict?

#137 Posted by Aronleon (728 posts) -

So to the people saying the newest version should be the only one that goes into the characters profile then that means Cloud Strife should be in his Theatrhythm incarnation?

I say lets look at the example square does in Dissidia, his "iconic" look is the default even if the Advent Children look is there too.

#138 Posted by Video_Game_King (35814 posts) -

@NekuSakuraba said:

So.... What is the verdict?

I'd say keep the original Dante, since that's the more well known one.

#139 Posted by Trylks (826 posts) -

I'm not sure what is the most iconic image for Dante, not a big fan of the series, but the one that is now is annoying due to the white border, I don't think that's a good render.

I tried to improve it. Here is what I got:

#140 Posted by Genkkaku (732 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

@NekuSakuraba said:

So.... What is the verdict?

I'd say keep the original Dante, since that's the more well known one.

Why didn't we just hold a poll?

@Trylks: That's cool

#141 Edited by Video_Game_King (35814 posts) -

@Trylks:

The white-haired one's more iconic, since he's appeared in more games, was here first, and isn't alternate universe.

This smug motherfucker, for clarification.

Also, somebody mind telling me how I actually set a default image? I have enough points, but I don't really see any clear options for it. Yea, I can click "make default image" on the actual image, but that doesn't appear to do anything. Never mind, figured it out.

#142 Posted by Animasta (14633 posts) -

oh my god are we still doing this jesus christ

#143 Posted by Blimble (302 posts) -

White haired Dante is the one people know and who people think of when Devil May Cry is brought up.

Also the new Dante has barely anything to do with the old one, his character, look and even his back story are all completely different. Makes no really sense for them to share a page

Though I'll admit I am biased as the new DMC looks like a pile of shit and new Dante is a terrible character and the whole thing is a betrayal of the series

#144 Posted by NekuSakuraba (7240 posts) -
@Animasta it's been going on for 8 pages, I think we deserve a conclusion. :P
#145 Posted by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

@Jeff refuses to take a stance on this.

#146 Posted by Nentisys (883 posts) -

I don't really care for the DMC games but I think the silver haired traditional Dante is much more well known and iconic. Thus it should be the default image.

#147 Posted by Azteck (7450 posts) -

Why is this still an argument. For fucks sake people, your childish dislike of the new character won't change anything. Stay with the times.

#148 Posted by david3cm (635 posts) -

I dont get it, they are both super generic characters, why not just put the current one up?

#149 Edited by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

I think we should just put PS1 version of Cloud Strife up for every generic badass Japanese character with a big sword.

#150 Posted by TobbRobb (4554 posts) -

Time to throw some more wood into the fire. Mostly because I'm curious.

@Dagbiker: Did Jeff actually say that he wouldn't take a stance?