Fez 2 cancelled because Phil Fish threw a tamper tantrum.

You nailed it. The rape simile is a bit caustic, but your point is sound. Bullies try to make victims weaker. Beer did so. And we should not reward him for that. Unearned rage should not define anyone's style, especially a reporter of sorts.

Phil could have responded better. I could have too when a bully pushed me over the edge and I mocked her sister's drug crime. Neither he nor I were in the right, but the onus falls on those who attack and belittle others, not on those who fail to turn the other cheek.

We so want good guy and bad guy developers that we define people swiftly and mercilessly. Let's stop doing that.

You can't just toss out "Beers was a dick" and make it seem like it was nothing. Marcus attacked him and Blow for no good reason, called THEM names, attacked their work, and encouraged gaming sites to ignore their future projects because they wouldn't comment on bs news stories. Jonathan and Phil weren't able to defend themselves on IW, so they took to twitter. If Phil was there in person, I'm sure he would have excluded the Bender quotes. But if he was there in person he could have pointed out Marcus was talking out of his ass about a non-story, which would not have made for good GameTrailers programing.

Phil didn't handle it perfectly, but he was provoked, unlike Marcus. People are letting Marcus off the hook because they hate Phil for whatever reason, and it's bothering me. Go watch the episode of Invisible Walls. Marcus commented on something he had no business talking about and went way over the line.

@hakunin: Wow! I had heard about the stuff that Marcus said, but you think Phil would have a thicker skin and take the interview to explain his side instead of being a spoiled brat and taking the childish way out. (Taking his ball and going home.) Never played Fez. Not my thing. But Marcus always rips on everyone. He admits it straight out. Sad to see a game creator go, but Phil needs to grow up and chill out.

THIS. PEOPLE READ THIS THING. And stop letting your personal feelings about Phil color how you respond to this news.

I don't get why people say Phil Fish needs to be so accountable for his actions. Seems to me the same part of the internet that rants about how detached and corporate EA and Microsoft execs are is also the part that can't recognize a real dude when they see it.

He's one dude, making videogames that we can play if we want, and yet we ask more accountability of him than a local politician. Gamers these days just want to use critical journalism as an excuse to hate on a single guy.

I hadn't thought about it like that but you make an excellent point.

Phish Has been a Band for 30 Years now, and They Have Sucked The Whole Time(on the Vice Music Blog Noisy)

"For those looking to eviscerate shitheads, Phish is pretty low-hanging fruit: They're only a hair of a step above Wings, or Adolph Eichmann."

"The caliber of Phish's fan base is a classic, time-honored reason to hate the band as much as the Khmer Rouge. Phish fans are basically dead-eyed jocks that are too drugged-up to rape. They're often referred to as "Wookies," a reference to the slack-jawed, non-verbal state they perennially exist in following consumption of olympic amounts of lysergic acid diethylamide. Most of these people are harmless enough, if you consider the vegetarian, cross-dressing sons of chemical biologists with names like "Murph-nugget" harmless. "

People write sensationalist articles about people in any form of limelight all the time. Granted, Fish didnt necessarily ask for his entry into the limelight, but he sure started to embrace it there for a while didnt he? Look at the title for that article, Phish has been a band for 30 years. 30 years, of people telling them they didnt deserve success(the equation to Nazi war criminals didnt start to come until sensationalist websites/magazines like Vice existed). 30 years of critics opining on the reason why people happily lined up for a band to 'musicially urinate' on them. People telling them the only reason people enjoy their music is because their 'fans' are so whacked out on drugs they didnt care what noises the band was making on stage. Years of questioning talent, years of verbally assaulting their fanbase. I can't imagine what that would be like, having someone assault you like that constantly, and the guys from Phish just let it roll off their backs. The only time it was even talked about was in interviews or documentaries when people asked them about it. Fish needs to take a lesson from Phish and just relax for a while, take a break from all the social media(like, a real one) OR learn to not let the haters like me bother him. Because in the end if he stopped being so loudmouthed, a lot of people on the internet wouldn't care about him at all.

Fixed that for you.

@bocam: A dolphin isn't a fish. Shitty video.

Agreed. Marcus acted like an asshole and he did so because two guys didn't want to comment on something they didn't have all the facts about. So, instead of being reasonable, he went and publicly attacked them, and their work. He acted like a child. Phil did too but Phil shouldn't be expected to just sit and do nothing while people constantly attack him.

Neither is Phil. Check and mate.

You stole that from the YouTube comments. That's a federal offense. Your ass is grass, punk. Better lawyer up.

I've gained a lot of respect for the guy after the Giant Bomb GDC video, and yeah, while I agree that he could've handled better, Marcus was clearly in the wrong with this stuff. When someone doesn't want to give you a quote, as a journalist, you respect that. Maybe Fish is overreacting, but I don't really blame him for it, either.

So much hyperbole in this thread, and surrounding the topic in question. This is some Grade-A Choice Internet.

I don't want to shock anyone, but Fish handled the situation exactly wrong. If he had ignored Beer, or even just responded calmly like Blow appeared to, everyone would be talking about something else right now. Honestly, how many people had never heard of Marcus Beer before today?

I can't speak for others, but I'm certainly not absolving Marcus of any wrongdoing. I think they're both assholes, which is why it's so hilarious to me. Would've liked to see Gametrailers punish Marcus for his actions, but LOL Gametrailers.

He was on a E3 Bombcast in 2011 and also did a Ryan Davis tribute show recently. I think a few people here might have heard of him.

@mariachimacabre said:

I think that abuser/rapist analogy is perhaps a little questionable, but Beer certainly seems like a real piece of work. I find his success kind of baffling too; people constantly complain about games' journalism being too sensationalist or editorial, yet they flock to Beer for "telling it like it is". His shtick seems to come from the school of reactionary right-wing punditry and it's both obnoxious and a little distressing.

@milkman said:

Well it had to be done, for good or ill. Such is the way of the internet.

Also if this guy would just punch a pillow instead of taking it to the internet, his life would probably be with much less turmoil. I can understand he'd have an urge to reply back at the libel and shit-saying, but really there's no point in being "hurt" over some asshole who happens to have a podcast spewing hateful, apparently innacurate shit. Just whatever, go on with your life.

Can you get rid of the rape analogy? Thats a pretty shitty way to argue.

I like seeing all these people crawling out of the woodwork to throw in their two cents which only consists of calling Phil Fish an asshole.

Marcus beer is a talentless hack, with nothing but negativity for anyone.

@ccfox: "plat-former"? More like prat-former... heh

Just saying (because you specifically replied to me) - Marcus Beer is an untalented, unfunny hack. He should be relegated to the dark woods of youtube with the rest of his ilk, but of course that wouldn't work since he'd be drowned out by the 1000+ people who already do his shtick much better.

Fish is in the right here.

@snail said:

Whether or not one is hurt isn't really a choice. Some people have the personality to handle shitstorms like this and others don't. What many people in this thread are essentially saying is, "Sensitive people have no place in video games."

That is crazy-talk.

We demand art and create a climate in which only the heartless can operate. We discourage vulnerability and whine about formulaic and safe Call of Duty franchises.

We should be creating a safe space. We should be fostering creativity. We should not be chuckling at hostile and abusive gimmicks that add absolutely nothing good to anyone's life.

Beer needs to apologize.

I love Phil Fish. Everytime I have heard him speak he has been intelligent and funny. So he loses his rag on Twitter every now and then. I bet he is just saying what tons of industry people would love to say but are too scared to.

Phil Fish is becoming a hero of mine because he says what he thinks and doesn't give a fuck. I love how enraged it gets people. Shame about Fez2 but we'll see what comes out of this gamingwise in the long run.

This industry needs people like Phil Fish badly. People with interesting ideas and strong opinions should be celebrated.

I love how a public figure can be attacked for no good reason, and then be treated like the bad guy when they react accordingly.

Yeah I don't think he's in anyway comparable to a rapist, but I think he's most certainly a bully.

Um, no one is saying that?

The problem is not so much that he was hurt - that's none of anyone's business outside of his private life - it's the way he dealt with it in a worldwide public forum. Which wouldn't be a problem really, had it not led to him cancelling a game many people looked forward to (himself included, right?). It's silly and childish and, most of all, unfortunate to react like this to a lowly prejudiced asshole such as that insulting podcaster. You generally expect adults to behave with more maturity than Mr. Fish did in this sort of situation (see Jonathan Blow). Like seriously, no one else does this. No one else deals with fame the shitty way Phil Fish does. He's the only one that constantly acts like a 7 year old.

Such is the life of being a celebrity - you are vulnerable to all sorts of public commentators, for better or worse. I think there are better ways to deal with that than publicly getting pissed, feeding the hater that started all this, generally acting immaturely, and then finally sulking, to the disappointment of tens of thousands of fans. One such way, already practiced by many who found themselves tossed into the limelight, is seclusion. Just do whatever you have to so you don't feel like you want to cancel your games Phil Fish. Turn off the internet if you have to.

Assholes fighting assholes is what this ends up being instead, though.

Beer doesn't "need" to apologize. He should. He most likely won't. Fuck him. No one gave a fuck about what he said until Phil Fish made a big deal about it. Let's move on.

Also this tweet from Patrick summarizes the whole thing pretty well. That's the most Mr. Fish should have posted to Twitter - and all he probably would have if he didn't have anger management issues.

Your rhetoric about "fostering a creative environment" is idealistic and out of place. This is all that happened.

Hmm... Having seen what was written and said by both parties I really don't know where to sit on this one. The crux behind what Beer was saying had a point, as both Johnathan Blow and Phil Fish have received a lot of media attention and limelight for their games and are well respects and probably some of the most recognizable indie developers out there, be it by their own volition or as a side effect of games journalism, so I can understand why they might be asked to comment on the story.

However, the way Beer came across was way too aggressive and spiteful with a lot of mud flung at both their names before they had any chance to respond and give their reasons for not doing so, (Which Blow did on twitter pointing out it way too early to tell for the Xbox One). Phil Fish did what he always does, as he's quite lot the persona Beer has crafted for himself being a man who doesn't take any shit and speaks his mind, and of course with that attitude he says thing he probably shouldn't have and he went over the line with the death threats, but to cancel Fez II over this or just this long running resentment to him?

Ultimately it's his choice, kinda sad it's not going to happen now, but maybe after Fish has had some time to cool off and take a step back from the game industry for a while he might be able to come back to it down the line.

I used to watch IW before Beer left it and yes he was a bit stand-offish to things that "annoyed" him but he never went to blatantly insulting the developers personally just because they did something he disagreed with. He clearly went too far this time and the decent thing would to apologise, as should Fish for some of his response to it.

In the end everybody comes out looking like an asshole and what could of been an interesting indie game gets canned over internet drama. I really hope this is something that both developers and journalists learn from.

You mean Phil Fish is crazy and willing to pull stupid shit for free publicity? NO WAY! Seriously all Indie Game the Movie did for me was ensure that I would never buy anything with him involved. He's a whiny manchild and deserves the shit people throw at him.

@hakunin: I have not heard anything from Phil Fish other then what I have read on gaming sites. I like Marcus, and have watched his spot on Gametrialers for awhile now. I think Phil should have set down with Marcus and discussed it out. Rather then just through his arms in the air and walked away. The dude needed to chill and grow a thicker skin. But again I am going by on what I have read and heard around the net today.

It is neither idealistic nor out-of-place to suggest encouraging the creation of safe and supportive environments online. We participate in different types of communities constantly and those communities will have characteristics, so why shouldn't we actively seek to make them supportive and safe instead of the recycled-funny/faux-angry shitfest we see on Twitter all too often?

Well if all you know about the dude is from gaming sites, you're at a disadvantage when it comes to judging him. They're just fishing for juicy soundbites to spin into click bait headlines. Which exactly what sparked this whole debacle, when Fish and Blow chose to not play ball. Marcus basically hurled insults and hatred at Blow and Fish for not providing the click bait that gaming sites want.

And by the way, I've also been a IW viewer since.. well almost since they started. And it has always been despite, certainly not because of Beer's presence. Every time that man opens his mouth I instinctively cringe.

I find this whole thing amusing. I do not hate Phil Fish but he brings this all on himself.

I would just like to say that I didn't know who Beers was until I watched that invisible walls tirade of his. I could immediately tell he is a whiny child with nothing positive to contribute to anything.

I also didn't really know much about Phil Fish until he appeared on the GDC after hours show. My impression of him is just that he is a regular dude who likes to speak his mind instead of appeasing an internet full of self-important douchebags.

Choosing to use twitter to vent his anger probably wasn't the wisest thing, but we have to stop imagining that these people who make games and are in the public spotlight are completely immune to any kind of emotional outburst... Especially indie guys with no PR people telling them what they can't do.

I am confused, why do either one of them have to be the right one? If you ask me both of these guys are in the wrong and both acted like children.

I do find it funny when people say Phil is just someone who says what others are afraid to do, yet when someone else says what is on their mind it is bullying? I feel like we should all just forget about both of them until they start acting like adults.

And this is why we can't have nice things...

The moment when we start drawing comparisons between Marcus Beer calling someone a "tosspot" and him being an abusive rapist is the exact moment when you know the thread has been going on for a little too long.

But it is. You know what an artist commune is? It's a place where artists are free to escape from the outside world for a time and just focus on their art. That is what you want for Fish, but rather than suggest Fish take a time out from the internet and society to do his thing, you want the internet to be nice to him.

"Chips On Their Shoulders"

@thepickle said:

Jonathan and Phil weren't able to defend themselves on IW, so they took to twitter. If Phil was there in person, I'm sure he would have excluded the Bender quotes. But if he was there in person he could have pointed out Marcus was talking out of his ass about a non-story, which would not have made for good GameTrailers programing.

I would put money on the table that the developers of Fez and Braid can get air time on GameTrailers when they please. Maybe not IW given Marcus' influence since Shane left, but all things are transitory. A lot of people would watch them. If they had PR people, that might be exactly the right move instead of Twitter.

The real question is can the Bombcast get all three men into the same room next convention? I think Marcus deserves to face his "blowfish" in a two-on-one debate.

@hailinel said:

Yes, I think people should take care to be nice. We should not encourage other people to be assholes and we should not tell those who are offended by assholes to stop being offended.

Right, and if this is Fish trying to be Kaufmanesque and fuck with people to "convince" him to return to work on Fez II, it'd make sense, which is the end result of your comment, right? I think you're dead on and nailed his intentions with this little "temper tantrum", as long as he doesn't let the trolls eat him alive which is a possibility with Fish.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be nice. What I'm saying is that it's unrealistic to expect everyone to be nice to Fish when he's already done enough to give people reason to not like him. Regardless of whether or not he started it, he threw an internet hissy fit yesterday, which is the exact opposite of the way a mature person is supposed to handle these situations. Or if he needed to vent, then he should have done it offline so that it wouldn't provide more fodder for people to feed on and just make him more enraged.

Fish is not a tortured genius that needs to be treated with delicate hands. He's just a guy who is absolutely terrible when it comes to dealing with adversity, and that can't be blamed entirely on the internet, nor is he entirely blameless. His behavior depicted in Indie Game: The Movie shows at least that much.

Free Phil Fish!