Addictive Gaming

The UK news media has decided to recycle the age-old "games are addictive due to a new study" again today - this time the recent furore over Fortnite seems to be the instigator. I've been sat here, grumbling to myself about the reporting, trying not to get hugely peed off at the often baffling opinions of the people voicing their opinions in the news. I can't see that this is any worse that what's happened before, just wrapped up in a different package. These stories (certainly here in the UK) seem to come up every now and then, particularly when a game steps out of gaming culture and becomes recognisable outside of those 'in the know', as Fortnite seems to currently be. DOOM (not the new one) and Mortal Kombat, I remember having a similar level of news coverage, and bringing up similar debates. But, as with these previous cases, everyone complaining on the news just seems to be pretty clueless about what is going on - and how to deal with it.

I think one of the most annoying thing about it is, they don't seem to ask anyone who enjoys games how they think about its addictive qualities. Do any of you think it's a genuine issue, a problem but one from other influences outside of games themselves or just a media creation because they haven't much else to talk about?

Personally, I think the addictive behaviour is something more or less prevalent in different people, e.g. if it wasn't a game it would be something else. Almost everyone I have met that has had a time in their lives where it could be considered an unhealthy addiction to a game, has had other things that that have developed habits or obsessions around too. Also, if my parents had a concern with how much time I might have spent on a game, they offered positive alternatives rather that threaten punishment for not stopping. Most of the parents being interviewed on the news seem to only punish or confiscate and certainly can't suggest what they offer to entertain a child's growing mind if they do remove the stimulus of a game. Maybe I was just lucky though, having parents who cared that there was a range of things to keep me and my sister busy. I guess being a child before mobile phones were smaller than a family car might mean I have a outmoded view on all of this.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm alone in the office today so there is no one vent to.

Yeah the World Health Organization just recognized game addiction. All those poor kids who are now only allowed to play 0.30 hour off Fortnight each day :D.

I play to much videogames myself but i woudn't call myself a addict, when i go on vacation for a few weeks i tend to take zero hardware with me and a burner phone for emergencies. So i am guess i am not addicted ? O yeah the Studies show that only 2% of videogamers tend to be addicts. But the media and parents are probably gonna take the VideoGames are bad for your health angle.

The UK news media has decided to recycle the age-old "games are addictive due to a new study" again today

It's a conversation that needs to be had, though I'm very skeptical the media is very good at initiating such a conversation without hyperbole.

Do any of you think it's a genuine issue

It is a genuine issue because games are created to get you invested so you spend more time playing them, and they're a form of escapism for a lot of people.

There is a feeling of accomplishment associated with the thrill of getting a kill, getting loot drops, finishing first or close to first in a battle royale game, completing a 'level', pulling off a combo - each of these reinforcing you to play more.

..if it wasn't a game it would be something else.

Games are a more acceptable form of entertainment to which you can slowly develop an unhealthy obsession than say gambling or alcohol, both of which have a stigma attached when pursued by yourself. I'm not sure what the 'something else' you mention would be, because my unhealthy obsession competing with people playing online (earlier in life) wouldn't have manifested in any other way because there was nothing else, and once I got rid of my gaming PC, the problem ceased to exist.

As with most answers, I think it's both nature and your environment. Some people like competing, or losing themselves in fantasy more than others, whilst at the same time someone can be more prone to developing an unhealthy obsession as a form of escapism from whatever they have going on in their real life.

I agree @godzillasbrain , it probably needs to be addressed, especially with free to play games especially looking for ways to overly keep people playing. The general news media almost certainly isn't the place though.

I think I'm addicted to Overwatch. I keep thinking of selling it just to get out of it but then I turn into Gollum and start muttering something about "precious" so I dunno.

I've also been listening to it on the radio at work today. I disagree with what some of the idiots say about gaming, trying to censor it or ban it. That annoys me.

However, I do agree with the overall idea that video games are addictive and video game addiction is a disease. That's not to say that everyone who plays video games is addicted.

From being 12 years old up to about 17, I was addicted to video games and it negatively impacted my life. My school attendance was down, I was spending any money I had on games, I neglected my friends and family, I even dropped out of college because I was so hooked on CoD4.

When I was 18, I had enough and decided to go travelling. My life was fine after that (I lived with friends for a few years in a party house, got an amazing girlfriend, bought a house, had a child, have a great job) and for the last 10 years, I've been playing video games for maybe 5-10 hours per week. I actually get anxious if I play a game for too long now, like I'm wasting my time or something.

I love video games and consider them to be a big part of who I am as a person. I want to know everything about them, I want to talk about them and read about them, but the act of actually playing them needs to be done in moderation if you want to live a fulfilling life.

Luckily, my girlfriend is massively against them. It's easier to keep myself in check with her around.

Sorry to bang on about myself, I just feel it's relevant in this conversation.

@dudeglove: damn i should jump on this "internet expert" Train $hoo$hoo !

I passed up on a lot of opportunity as a kid so I could play games.

As an adult, I’m more concerned with missing my weights than my games when I’m out on business or vacation.

I think that addiction is highly personal. I also think addictions to hobbies (hobbies, not substance or sexual addictions) tend to go away with responsibility, wisdom, age, and the reprioritization that comes with that package.

I’ve gone months without games because I’ve been too busy. I was happy to get time back to play them, but I was hardly jonesing or even really thinking about them. As a kid, it would have been a completely different story.

You are all far more qualified and sensible to talk to the BBC than anyone they've had on so far!

Human's can get addicted to anything. It needs to recognised and help rendered where needed. Especially younger or at risk people who are targeted by some games to maximise the addictive nature of the product.

I've definitely met people that would qualify as addicts for games like WoW so I have no qualms with this report by the WHO

If you ask me (and nobody is), they're targeting the wrong habit. The most detrimental electronic addiction is phone usage, and social media more than gaming.

Phones provide instant, and more or less constant, gratification of the "I'm bored" itch and makes it difficult for us, kids especially, to be OK with even momentary silence and stillness. Those moments of stillness are an important part of an essential appreciation of life from an existential perspective, or even of just mentally relaxing.

Of course, I'm writing this on my phone and am as ensnared as most others in our cultural addiction.

Just another way for people to abdicate responsibility for fucking up.

@imchardo: Agreed. Social media and the CONSTANT need to be tethered and aware of everything is making for some really shitty people.

I found the whole social media thing to be super toxic and got out. It’s all confrontation, folks knowing they know everything and refusing to entertain a moment of learning or critical thought, and generally just being at war with folks over slightly opposing ideas.

The solution? Segregate folks. Let’s have everyone break into groups, unfriend, ignore and block folks who we might learn from, who we might become more empathetic from, and mock them. And if one slips through the cracks, immediately ignore ir block them and tell everyone about how horrible they are.

Never mind the lack of a wall between news and satire making folks all the crazier.

Social media is INSANE.

The constant need to be in the know is bad, too. When I was 10 I’d go off on my bike all day. I’d check in by dark. When I was 13, I’d be out all night. I’d check in my morning.

Now, if someone is gone an hour later than presumed, it’s time to call the national guard. I got sick of folks asking where I am and starting allowing people to see me on Find Friends and Find My iPhone. Yeah, I’ve given up on some privacy. No, it’s not ideal. I just got tired of telling folks I’m en route in order to stop the text barrages.

As for being unstimulated and alone with my thoughts, if I’m waiting for takeout, I actively avoid my personal phone. I try to stick to business or my thoughts when possible. At home, just keeping the phone on in another room helps...making it less accessible.

@imchardo: Yeah lost in all the targeting towards game has been the social media craze. As an older person I don't even have perspective growing up with constant internet, much less social media, Facebook, and Iphones. I was already an adult by the time Facebook had become a thing.

I constantly see conversation about how addicted kids are on their phones, how bullying happens in online social spaces, how your online social presence can be tied to your social status in schools and growing up. It sounds like a literal hellscape nightmare to me. Seeing depictions of lunch and rescess of just floods of kids sitting and not talking to each other but staring at phones is like.... some dystopian dark thing to my mind. Yet, if we are to believe what has been reported, isn't entirely inaccurate.

I will say though and this relates even to gaming, I think part of the problem is instead of trying to study and fix the addictive aspects of people we are instead focusing on the things they get addicted to. Obviously in some instances, when something can be so physically addictive (like a hardcore drug) it makes perfect sense to have that approach. But the addicts should never be ignored, and in most case anyone with a serious addiction has treatment options.

But you'll also see stuff getting blown out of proportion, whether it's gaming addictions or social media, or what have you. Some people drink a cup of coffee everyday, that is a caffeine addiction by all definitions. Certain things, gaming in particular get far more flack for levels of addictions that you'd see similar to my coffee example. I'd imagine social media probably has similar problems.

For those of you who are interested, here is an Associated Press article on the announcement, and here is a Q&A video the World Health Organization did on the subject.

For the tl;dr crowd:

• Gaming disorder is when some suffers "impaired control over gaming," and that gaming "takes precedence over other daily activities and interests of a person to the extent that it results in impaired functioning or distress."
• The video states that for it to be considered gaming disorder in most cases the negative behaviors persist for at least 12 months.
• The article states that gaming disorder affects no more than 3% of people who game, with one researcher saying it was less than 1%.
• Both the article and the video clearly state that playing games =/= gaming disorder.

Ive done nothing with my free time since I was quite young other than gaming. Ever since I got my PS1 its been constant, with Oblivion and Fallout 3 comin out while i was in high school as the defacto life ruiners. I still had an active social life and have a wife and 2 kids. Spent 6 years overseas, took a trip to the desert, and never skipped a beat. I love a good open world, or a well told story. My kids are active in sports and clubs and I attend any event anyone in my family is particpating in, otherwise you'll find a controller in my hand. I dont reallly see anything wrong with that. I did get kinda fat, but lost 20 pounds since i found out how much I weighed haha.

For a bigger breakdown on the recent WHO decision, you can also read this piece that references studies and WHO directors. It talks about how Gaming Disorder is a genuine concern, but more study needs to be done and it's inclusion in the ICD-11 is a good (but possibly premature) step in encouraging funding and study.

There's really no need to get angry or resort to "whataboutism". Just be informed and correct people that are misinformed.

@toastburner_b@burncoat Good links, thank you. The coverage on the news here definitely glosses over the low numbers of people affected and more on upset parents. once you've read the report the coverage is even stranger. But then, the same could be said for most things they talk about on the news.

https://us.audionetwork.com/browse/m/track/synthetic-life_150691

'nuf said.

Meanwhile its hip/cool/socially acceptable to binge watch seasons and seasons of tv shows on streaming services.

@breq: I was just thinking the same thing. No one bats an eye if someone watches TV 20 hours a week. Play video games 20 hours a week and you're a freak.

@stantongrouse:

Internet Gaming Disorder is a real thing that has been included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders DSM-5 (2015). Males are more than twice as often affected (8.4%) as females (2.9%). There is also a strong correlation with young age and depression. A 2017 meta-analysis in a German medical journal also references other national studies: Depending on the age brackets and countries the numbers vary a bit, but the estimates are an overall 5.4 % for the Netherlands and 5.9% in a South-Korean study.

There are 9 simple criteria or questionnaires you can take, things like "unsuccessful attempts to control gaming".

Over 5% of young people (up to 40 years old) is a huge number when it comes to mental disorders, almost every 10th boy. Typically a person is considered in trouble when five of nine criteria apply, but the percentages are even higher with a less strict adherence to this definition, which the studies also include.

But it also states that addiction has a lot to do with the design and nature of the particular games themselves, not so much the individual personalities, unlike the common belief, that statistics somehow only affect others.

@berfunkle: Is that really the message here? I don't think the larger goal is to label anyone a "freak".

Also, I don't think TV is really all that comparable, personally. One is extremely interactive, the other is, for the most part, extremely passive. Not to say people can't zone out and spend too much time watching TV (or even become dependent on it), but I just don't think it's triggering the same chemical responses that gaming is (especially when you include F2P and the gambling aspects of loot boxes and what not).

TV has sports, reality TV and horse racing. All of these things can be gambled on either online or at venues across the world and have been for decades.

@therealseaman: Well, really everything can be gambled upon. My point wasn't that gambling didn't exist in TV. It's odd to me that you segmented that one part of my post to respond to? The enhanced interactivity of gaming is obviously a factor here, just like it is with something like Black Jack. If you give a person the idea that they can somehow be good enough to "win" you're going to inherently encourage them to engage more. That isn't to say that people don't have that misconception about the stuff that they watch on TV, but I think there is a pretty large gulf between guessing who the Bachelor is going to pick and playing a F2P game or a game with loot boxes.

Considering the fact that the Videogame industry is openly aspiring to addict players, if this isn't already a problem it's gonna be.

Every year at GDC there are talks about how to get people hooked into your monetization loops, and gameplay being "addictive" has long been described as a positive attribute for games. The ubiquity of smart phones has meant for some people their addiction is now in their pocket/purse 12 hours a day. Some of these games have caused people to flush their life savings down the toilet on virtual trash and game companies deliberately try to exploit their compulsiveness.

I mean Take Two didn't hire a gambling executive to help them with loot boxes because they care about players gaming in a healthy manner http://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/06/16/2k-expansion-hires-gambling-expert/

Just because widespread gaming addiction hasn't been an addiction in the past doesn't that will stay true in the future if games are designed differently.

Don't get me wrong, I love games, and while most of the criticism around them historically has been grossly inaccurate and embellished, that it doesn't mean they don't have the potential to harm people.

@sethmode: In truth, I wasn't even thinking about loot boxes when I wrote this. Fortnite and it's ilk isn't my thing , but I do like open world games such as Witcher 3, BoTW and my latest interest, Horizon Zero Dawn. You can easily put in 100 hours with these games especially if you like exploration and are really into the story. It's almost like reading a book, which is a lot more interactive than watching a movie!

@sethmode: I quoted the most relevant section of your post to what I wanted to say, don't know why that has bothered you.

Loot boxes are still not as bad as actual gambling.

@berfunkle: Fortnite has no loot boxes and zero pay to win of any kind, it's probably the most honest free to play game in existence (surprisingly).

@therealseaman: I never argued that they were. I genuinely don't know what point you're trying to make here. Nothing is bothering me one way or another, I'm just not sure why you took one part, ignored the entire context of the post, and still are acting like I basically said "Loot boxes are worse than gambling and gambling only exists in the world via loot boxes."

I am right there with you, duder. Again, I'm not trying to imply that dependency doesn't exist with TV, I just think that the interactivity (and as @slag broke down very well, the drive to literally make games as addictive as possible) causes problems on a larger scale for people.

I did not take you out of context, like at all, I responded to the notion that gaming is somehow unique in its chemical response with loot boxes and interactivity with those systems. There's night time TV channels in many countries that allow you to gamble there and then, this doesn't even include the rampant sports/racing/realitytv gambling. You didn't mention the gambling that TV aids, but chose to bring it up for gaming.

Gambling triggers the same thing and a high, with worse consequences than some idiot spending $2000 on lootboxes. The latter of which can often be refunded by the likes of Google or Apple. Nobody is going to get their money back if they gambled with someone's money on horse racing or slots. Heck, a lot of people buy microtransactions on their phones and then refund it by contacting support pretending someone did it without their knowledge. That's a whole other rabbit hole.

The one thing that can be said as a direct knock against gaming, is that it's easier for a kid to spend money on loot boxes than it is to start gambling. Although, as someone that will occasionally put $20 down for a big boxing match I don't recall there being many barriers (if any) to me signing up and gambling online.

Most recently, I've been thinking about this. Not necessarily just being addicted, but whether I should choose to really spend all the time and money on gaming. It makes me happy to buy games, a new TV/new sound system, and delve in and immerse myself in a game. That said, I don't neglect to do other things that I have to do, like take the dog out or go to work or what have you, and I don't always feel like gaming, but if I wasn't gaming, I could probably do a lot more that is helping me and maybe even helping others. I just think, as much fun as I may be having, I am not really accomplishing anything of importance and at times it just kind of bogs down the experience.

For instance, while I wouldn't call myself insecure mind you, I can tell you right now, if the world was made up of billions of me (or people like me), the world wouldn't advance, which is just kind of depressing because it tells me that I am not pushing myself hard enough. Or, that's what I'm thinking. Coming home, or being home on my days off and sinking time into games is just relaxing to me. The money thing and pricing of games is the biggest issue for me, not so much the time spent playing them though. I don't honestly know what else I'd rather spend my money on for relaxing fun times; I am not someone that goes out and buys drinks or goes to the casino or whatever else. It's just the necessities, and tech when I have enough.

Lastly, yeah, it seems developers strive to make you want to keep playing their games and that's kind of evil. Fortunately, I don't really get into the whole 'buy this to play more' kind of stuff, and I don't really play multiplayer, but when there comes time for an impressive, large open world game, I'm in. I'm replaying The Witcher 3 (yes, replaying it now that I got it on the X, and yes, I bought it again), and I'm putting hours into it. I got it two days ago and I think I put 15 hours into it.

I obviously cannot say anything about the veracity of the study, but it is true that the most popular games are always the most addictive. We know they are made to be and anyone paying attention would even be able to tell you how. It's not really hidden.

Maybe it's good for people to be cautions. It might be even good for devs to try and do work that doesn't depend on formulas that we know to cause addiction so they have to rely on the quality of their art instead.

I think a lot of people who don't think it to be addictive are the same people who prefer games that give you something more. Wanting to know how a good story ends, or exploring a vibrant world are things that compel on the strength of their quality.

@matiaz_tapia: China estimates every 5th youth, which is not unrealistic. ADVChina is a recent channel I discovered and binge-watched talking about living there as an expat.

Crappy f2p-trash games that reached popular critical mass and come pre-installed, absent parents and an authoritarian, suppressive culture, plus massive pressure in school testing aren't really helping.

Yes, gaming addiction is real, and we are doing a disservice to ourselves as a community not to, at least, acknowledge it. Most big game companies have little to no qualm in exploding it on people that are most susceptible than others, so hiding our head in the sand and acting out of denial is only benefiting them.

However, as others have pointed out, having an addiction is different than playing a game, in the same way as being an alcoholic and drinking a beer from time to time are not the same thing; and having the issue irresponsibly scrutinized by sensationalist journalists, politicians and puritan parental groups in search for some shock value is the last thing we need.

Doesn't make a difference to me tbh. I'm an adult, I work, pay taxes and socialise a little, what I choose to do with my free-time / money is none of anyone's business. I've plenty of worse vices, not stopping any of those either, fuck anyone who presumes to tell me how to live.

@someoneproud: sounds healthy

The draw to keep playing a game is what they’re talking about, it’s similar to the draw gamblers experience. Not everyone who gambles becomes an addict not every drinker becomes an alcoholic but some do. This WHO announcement acknowledges this, and in the case of the UK should allow treatment for those who can’t stop.

I’ve only seen the bbc coverage for overseas, and npr and wapo for domestic and it all seems pretty level headed. I’m not seeing a hysteria from media bodies.

@mikewhy: Nope... gotta die of something, don't really care when it is / what does it personally, gonna keep doing what I like until the end though.

@eurobum: You should also binge SerpentZA, since it's one half of ADV and (IMO) way better content

@therealseaman: @stantongrouse said:

We as a collective know a lot about addiction, alcoholism, behavioral and learning disorders. Which includes things like, addiction is basically incurable. So the best advice, anyone can give is never to try things like heroin, which unfortunately is impossible in today's environment. It's like trying to raise a child in brothel or a casino.

As a teacher with a curriculum or parent with a coloring book and an erector set, trying to teach science, morals and grammar, how do you compete against games that are polished to a sheen and crafted to appeal only to base fantasies: playing war, playing house, playing dress up, hunter gathering. How do you enthuse a child, who spends every single moment of free time thinking about a game, how to win him over for the curiosities of mathematics or the significance of grammar?

What Chinese and Korean PC Bongs have been fifteen years ago - today have become smartphones, a gateway and a Trojan horse to enter schools and child bedrooms. So, as our favorite GB color commentators try to figure out, why Fortnite has been ported to phones, the reasons actually don't involve adults, they are both apparent and nefarious.

The percentages of proliferation are a function of cost, access and barriers of entry. Pornography for instance not having a cost or barrier of entry to speak of today, has reached full spread, yiss.

An addicted society is nothing new, we've seen this when an overwhelming majority of people smoked tobacco. Today our society is addicted to a sugary diet, with dramatic consequences already. Addiction is a self-reinforcing behavioral disorder, a vicious cycle that is ultimately self-destructive. But just as we cannot prohibit everything, we can't really legalize everything either. Personally I don't know any solution or advice. Even for people who don't value their time, it is a loss. As school performance is suffering we become more stupid and error prone as a society.