Awful things happen when you try to express an opinion.

@AngelN7: lol yeah maybe i used a bad example. but your right. giving people to the power to upset you or control your emotions isnt good. the worse thing you can do to people like that is ignore them and go about your life. it pisses them off so bad.

@CharlesAlanRatliff said:

Love this so much.

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@hidys said:

For those interested her kickstarter is still running for the next couple of days if you would like to donate. She has already reached her funding goal and exceeded it by a large margin but it's still a good idea to support an analysis of a problem that, despite what some idiots are saying is still to prevalent in games and entertainment generally.

Wait are you.... are you actually suggesting that we should support this garbage though? What the hell?

If you don't want to support her endeavour that is your choice but yes if people are interested in a feminist critique of video games then yes people should support her.

@AngelN7: I'm pretty sure all this shit she's getting for her kickstarter project isn't "hurting" her. She stated very clearly it's not going to deter her in any way shape or form.

But it's okay to point something out, something that is happening to you and pretty much all non white male gamers, on a completely ridiculous scale and say: "You know what, this is pretty fucked up and it's not okay."

I understand where people in this thread are coming from when they say "It's the internet, what do you expect." But that's not constructive. It IS okay to be annoyed or even outraged by people being rude fucking idiots on the internet.

@hidys said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@hidys said:

For those interested her kickstarter is still running for the next couple of days if you would like to donate. She has already reached her funding goal and exceeded it by a large margin but it's still a good idea to support an analysis of a problem that, despite what some idiots are saying is still to prevalent in games and entertainment generally.

Wait are you.... are you actually suggesting that we should support this garbage though? What the hell?

If you don't want to support her endeavour that is your choice but yes if people are interested in a feminist critique of video games then yes people should support her.

A worthy use of 10 dollars, I must say. Entitlement and ignorant rage are cliches in nerd culture. That's sad. Weren't many of us bullied for being too smart, cautious, and nice to other people? Now whenever anyone offers up a considered, logical critique of the art they love but want to make better, people attack in droves. After all the years trying not to appear like Cro-Magnon jerks so games, the internet, forums all stopped being the butt of every populist joke, we get right back to it when threatened by someone doubting our divine hobby.

@Kierkegaard said:

@hidys said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@hidys said:

For those interested her kickstarter is still running for the next couple of days if you would like to donate. She has already reached her funding goal and exceeded it by a large margin but it's still a good idea to support an analysis of a problem that, despite what some idiots are saying is still to prevalent in games and entertainment generally.

Wait are you.... are you actually suggesting that we should support this garbage though? What the hell?

If you don't want to support her endeavour that is your choice but yes if people are interested in a feminist critique of video games then yes people should support her.

A worthy use of 10 dollars, I must say. Entitlement and ignorant rage are cliches in nerd culture. That's sad. Weren't many of us bullied for being too smart, cautious, and nice to other people? Now whenever anyone offers up a considered, logical critique of the art they love but want to make better, people attack in droves. After all the years trying not to appear like Cro-Magnon jerks so games, the internet, forums all stopped being the butt of every populist joke, we get right back to it when threatened by someone doubting our divine hobby.

It is a sad state of affairs mostly due to the fact that cowards and bigots can get away with what they want on the internet. In any case I look forward to watching her video series.

I dunno.

I'm a little peeved that she got so much money.

Maybe it's because I'm poor and she gets 100k to beat a dead horse.

@CaptStickybeard said:

I dunno.

I'm a little peeved that she got so much money.

Maybe it's because I'm poor and she gets 100k to beat a dead horse.

Plenty of people get paid a lot more than that to beat dead horses you know... and I would disagree about the fact that it's a dead horse. and I'm poor as shit too

@Video_Game_King said:

Might as well leave this here.

I've got to ask...maybe I'm late to the party here dude but....WHAT'S WITH ALL THE SOUNDTRACKS ALL THE TIME. Do you always feel compelled to express your opinions in song?

@CaptStickybeard: She is well qualified to be doing what she's doing and I'm sure she's worked her ass off to be recognized enough to do it. And I disagree that sexism in video games is a resolved issue.

$106,000 (and climbing) to play "awful video games?" Damn, what a chore.

I think that right there is what is upsetting the internet. She's received an ungodly amount of money to produce a series of videos that, as the internet likely sees it, are going to attack video games. Whether or not you view this as an attack or a necessary critique is irrelevant. That's how it's going to be perceived. Ironically all this publicity is going to earn her even more money to make these videos.

Also, welcome to the internet. This isn't new.

@Moreau_MD said:

Do you always feel compelled to express your opinions in song?

Quite.

All Youtube comments are like that. But I have to say, while I don't agree with how they're saying it, I agree with the basic point that this isn't so much overt sexism as it is just silliness and immaturity. And I'd go even further to say that there's not much wrong with that either. Games don't need to be serious and grown up all the time. Although it is ridiculous when a game is trying to create a serious female character and has her in a metal bikini with EE breasts. It depends on the context.

@Animasta said:

This whole thing, while also being terrible, is also fucking hilarious; once all the shit 4chan did got reported, she got WAY more money, as seen here

so much irony, so much salt

Where is that conspiracy guy's picture when I need it?

I kid of course. Assholes on the internet need not be part of a conspiracy. They're just assholes.

As long as she rips a new one into slut armour in video games I don't care how bad her videos are. There can never be enough hate for metal bikinis. Never.

@frankfartmouth said:

All Youtube comments are like that. But I have to say, while I don't agree with how they're saying it, I agree with the basic point that this isn't so much overt sexism as it is just silliness and immaturity. And I'd go even further to say that there's not much wrong with that either. Games don't need to be serious and grown up all the time. Although it is ridiculous when a game is trying to create a serious female character and has her in a metal bikini with EE breasts. It depends on the context.

Exactly. I'm all for diversity, and I tend to agree that it would be nice with more well-rounded female characters in games, but at the same time there is a place for the more cartoonish renditions of both males and females, as long as it's understood it's all in good fun and not meant to be serious.

I'm a happy supporter of the project.

While I sometimes disagree with most feminist critique of different medium, they bring a new point of view on it so you can see the medium in a different light. If people want videogames to be a legitimate medium, it's necessary that there's legitimate theory on it, and feminist theory can be really interesting if well done. I guess that most people against this kind of project would not even bother to understand that there's more to it than just complaining that videogames are sexist.

I would like to point out that Laura Mulvey's theories on cinema helped the medium a lot, I could see why more feminist theory on videogames could help change the medium. At least, open the way to differents games.

Rockpapershotgun posted a great write-up of what kind of harassment is going on (it's a bit more than just hate comments) and why most popular critique against that kind of project are irrelevant: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/13/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games-vs-the-internet/

Money to make videos about your personal opinions and value system ... great.  Just what the world needs. 
 
Instead, take that money, develop some REAL SKILLS, and help turn the tide by making an awesome game that embraces and clearly communicates your values and beliefs!  Put up or please, STFU.

@DoctorDanger99 said:

i grow bored very quickly of people who complain about how thier religion,race,sexual oreintation or whatever. i get it. you dont get the respect you deserve. move the fuck on. dont let the fact that your gay,black or a buddist define what you are as a person.just do what everybody else does,understand the world is a fucked up and unfair place and move on.

but what do i know?im a white man. apparently my opinion doesnt matter because im white and straight.

As a privileged person, I wish marginalized people would just deal with their marginalization and move on, I don't understand how it's frustrating to deal with because I never have to deal with it. That's basically what you posted there, just because their marginalization doesn't affect you you think they should just get over it.

@hidys said:

@Kierkegaard said:

@hidys said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@hidys said:

For those interested her kickstarter is still running for the next couple of days if you would like to donate. She has already reached her funding goal and exceeded it by a large margin but it's still a good idea to support an analysis of a problem that, despite what some idiots are saying is still to prevalent in games and entertainment generally.

Wait are you.... are you actually suggesting that we should support this garbage though? What the hell?

If you don't want to support her endeavour that is your choice but yes if people are interested in a feminist critique of video games then yes people should support her.

A worthy use of 10 dollars, I must say. Entitlement and ignorant rage are cliches in nerd culture. That's sad. Weren't many of us bullied for being too smart, cautious, and nice to other people? Now whenever anyone offers up a considered, logical critique of the art they love but want to make better, people attack in droves. After all the years trying not to appear like Cro-Magnon jerks so games, the internet, forums all stopped being the butt of every populist joke, we get right back to it when threatened by someone doubting our divine hobby.

It is a sad state of affairs mostly due to the fact that cowards and bigots can get away with what they want on the internet. In any case I look forward to watching her video series.

I called this shit garbage because it's a very obvious cash grab. She's pulled in something like 100k for playing fucking video games and exploring a "problem" that doesn't even really exist. Why does she need money at all for this "project"? Nobody here isn't the least bit skeptical about the whole "donation" bit?

@beej: Because white and straight = privilege right?

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@beej: Because white and straight = privilege right?

We're 'the man', bro. Errbody hatin'

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@hidys said:

For those interested her kickstarter is still running for the next couple of days if you would like to donate. She has already reached her funding goal and exceeded it by a large margin but it's still a good idea to support an analysis of a problem that, despite what some idiots are saying is still to prevalent in games and entertainment generally.

Wait are you.... are you actually suggesting that we should support this garbage though? What the hell?

I'd rather give the Oatmeal money for BearLove Good Cancer Bad.

@Cloudenvy said:

@ImmortalSaiyan: Hmmm, probably not for EVERY situation. A large majority of the pictures I have of her aren't even gifs.

EDIT: But I do have a lot!

I like this post just cause I imagine you wrote the first part, then checked your profile and went, "shit..you know what, I DO have a lot of gifs of her!"

...thats all I got really.

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@Cloudenvy said:

@ImmortalSaiyan: Hmmm, probably not for EVERY situation. A large majority of the pictures I have of her aren't even gifs.

EDIT: But I do have a lot!

I like this post just cause I imagine you wrote the first part, then checked your profile and went, "shit..you know what, I DO have a lot of gifs of her!"

...thats all I got really.

That's...Pretty much accurate!

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@hidys said:

@Kierkegaard said:

@hidys said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@hidys said:

For those interested her kickstarter is still running for the next couple of days if you would like to donate. She has already reached her funding goal and exceeded it by a large margin but it's still a good idea to support an analysis of a problem that, despite what some idiots are saying is still to prevalent in games and entertainment generally.

Wait are you.... are you actually suggesting that we should support this garbage though? What the hell?

If you don't want to support her endeavour that is your choice but yes if people are interested in a feminist critique of video games then yes people should support her.

A worthy use of 10 dollars, I must say. Entitlement and ignorant rage are cliches in nerd culture. That's sad. Weren't many of us bullied for being too smart, cautious, and nice to other people? Now whenever anyone offers up a considered, logical critique of the art they love but want to make better, people attack in droves. After all the years trying not to appear like Cro-Magnon jerks so games, the internet, forums all stopped being the butt of every populist joke, we get right back to it when threatened by someone doubting our divine hobby.

It is a sad state of affairs mostly due to the fact that cowards and bigots can get away with what they want on the internet. In any case I look forward to watching her video series.

I called this shit garbage because it's a very obvious cash grab. She's pulled in something like 100k for playing fucking video games and exploring a "problem" that doesn't even really exist. Why does she need money at all for this "project"? Nobody here isn't the least bit skeptical about the whole "donation" bit?

Well, my opinion is informed by watching a bunch of her work, seeing the intense research, editing, and writing she's doing, and being totally supportive of her goal. So, no, I have no skepticism or anger about this. Calm yourself, bro.

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@beej: Because white and straight = privilege right?

yes, also you forgot men

@Animasta said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@beej: Because white and straight = privilege right?

yes, also you forgot men

Damn, knew I forgot something.

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Animasta said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@beej: Because white and straight = privilege right?

yes, also you forgot men

Damn, knew I forgot something.

I mean yeah, that's one aspect of privilege. Obviously one could still be white, straight, and male and still be oppressed or marginalized in one way or another, that's just basic intersectionality. But yeah, white straight and male are all ways of being privileged.

@DoctorDanger99:

I just...The amount of stupidity in this single post is quite astounding really. Guess someone should have told this to the civil right protesters. Oh Gays? They should stop whining and totally accept the fact that our government is run by homophobes.

This, and the crap going on in the woman's kickstarter is the "REASON" why gamers are typically stereotyped as uneducated, fat manchildren who spend their time playing with toys. Do you want to know why people like Roger Ebert refuse to view video games as a viable medium? It's because they don't believe there can be a conversation about it--aside from the obvious of course. Something doesn't become art simply because, "gawsh, it sure do look purdy;" it's art when people can sit down and talk about it in terms of what it has to say about our society--past, present, and future. If we can't agree with that, that video games can be discussed in such an intelligent manner, then we can't get mad when someone calls our hobbies toys, because that's what they are--mindless, stupid toys.

Am I saying that you have to agree with her? No, but the point is to breed a conversation about this subject. I'd rather see people answering intelligently on both sides of the argument rather than show complete apathy....or worse.

Also:

STOP TREATING EVERY SINGLE CRITICISM ON GAMING AS AN ATTACK

"Attack" is a word that keeps constantly used in this topic--that's not what she's doing. An attack would be if she called Batman: Arkham City a shitty game "because" of its treatment of women, or if she personally insulted the entirety of gaming, or better yet, the comments that are used against her and her kickstarter. These are all example of attacks. Personally, what I find so bewildering is that so many people are bothered because, hey apparently not all women like being portrayed as being weak or obvious sex fodder for men. I believe criticism can ultimately help improve a medium, or at the very least, start an interesting conversation.

@Brendan said:

As long as she rips a new one into slut armour in video games I don't care how bad her videos are. There can never be enough hate for metal bikinis. Never.

I disagree strongly. Metal bikinis are just a shell to the boob. When looking at one, you're not looking at a boob but at the shape of the metal shell. So yeah, metal bikinis aren't great

@Yanngc33 said:

@Brendan said:

As long as she rips a new one into slut armour in video games I don't care how bad her videos are. There can never be enough hate for metal bikinis. Never.

I disagree strongly. Metal bikinis are just a shell to the boob. When looking at one, you're not looking at a boob but at the shape of the metal shell. So yeah, metal bikinis aren't great

At this point metal bikinis in games don't do anything for me period. Not even a little bit, they have become completely desexualised, it's like looking at a brick now. Maybe even off-putting rather then in any way sexy.

People on both sides need to get over themselves.

What the fuck is this? I'm gonna start a campaign against the cliche British villains.

Feminists are the worst.

That's pretty horrible and embarrassing. Internet plus a mob mentality leads to some pretty gnarly stuff. I wonder if a kickstarter was really needed for her project though. She seems to already have the gear and software to create videos. I hope it's thorough and informative now that she has plenty of backing. One of her rewards is a postcard signed by her, is she famous or something?

@Enns said:

That's pretty horrible and embarrassing. Internet plus a mob mentality leads to some pretty gnarly stuff. I wonder if a kickstarter was really needed for her project though. She seems to already have the gear and software to create videos. I hope it's thorough and informative now that she has plenty of backing. One of her rewards is a postcard signed by her, is she famous or something?

She thinks she is.

@Bisyss: Most gaming culture online is toxic regardless. I fit into almost every majority going and I can't stand random people on xbox live or reading youtube comments on pretty much anything. However I used to be a regular at a couple of CoD 1/2 clans and I loved it there, and I love talking about and playing games with my friends. The internet just manages to give the vocal minority who are abusive a very loud megaphone, because thoughtful people aren't quite as rampant in spreading their wisdom. It's much easier to pile on a conflict than generate meaningful discussion and that's because discussion will eventually have a disagreement on points and then it becomes a conflict. Not many people will accept someone's varying opinion, understand it and provide their arguments to the counter. Everything ends up being a conflict and then this whirlwinds into abuse eventually.

The only thing I don't understand is how these trolls and angry people become that way, and what could possibly be done to stop people thinking that way or in those terms. I'm sure most of them are empty words anyway, but I just don't know where they really come from.

@PeasantAbuse said:

Video game fans tend to be the worst people so I'm not surprised.

Maybe it should be video games are for jerks instead of anime is for jerks.

I will never ever understand how people can hear/read/look at people saying racist, homophobic, or sexist things and only think "Well, that's just the way it is!" How do you do that? How do you come to being okay with, even as a "joke," people being hateful and disgusting about another person's facticity? I'm all for jokes and the ridiculing of stereotypes, etc etc, but nothing in that string of youtube comments is funny. It is just sad. If we're so complacent with hatred, it seems nigh impossible for us to ever move the conversation past a series of poorly constructed barbs that accomplish nothing. The rebuttal that it's only hatred masked in anonymity is a weak one as well because it is not a new phenomenon. Groups like the KKK used both hate and anonymity as key components to generate fear, and despite having many anonymous members, their hate was manifested in pretty tangeable ways. Even if you don't agree with the message of what she's saying, I don't understand how it's seemingly whatever for both her ethnicity and sex to be attacked. I get that people want to seem above such petty spats and think "just live and let live man" but fuck. How did we get to the point that it's so seemingly gross and lame to actually give a fuck and care about another human being?

Criticisms of her message are totally valid and should be voiced. Criticisms of her because of the message (and I'm also including "Oh, fuck feminists" responses in this group of incredibly shallow rebuttals) do nothing but damage the image of gamers, making us look like assholes who can't engage in an argument at best and reinforcing her argument at worst.

But I will agree with those who say her criticisms probably aren't just applicable to video games (which is why we have sites like Escher Girls), so I don't think it's a simultaneous critique of video games and a praising of other mediums, but rather, it's a medium which has only seen the beginnings of such critiques fairly recently.

@CrossTheAtlantic: she's been critical of other mediums for a while.

@Animasta: I'm aware. I was just trying to point out that this isn't so much a personal attack on video games, and it should not be treated as such. It's a criticism of a much larger and systemic issue. Sorry if I muddled that.

you guys should send me money

for research and stuff

@GunslingerPanda: They can be. It's when they start accusing everything of being sexist and bringing up issues that aren't really issues. I think the main thing a lot of people are angry about is that they don't deny sexism in the industry, they are skeptical that it's actually a problem and that it's as rampant as people say it is. Personally, I've always thought that the gaming industry was one of the more progressive. We have loads of strong female leads, and I don't think I've ever played a game that was intentionally or blatantly sexist unless it was satirical. I guess I just feel that they use the word too lightly is all, similar to how people use racism too lightly.

The whole "welcome to Internet"-excuse is really tiresome. Just because you can act like a total dick, doesn't mean you should act like a total dick.

i guess my view on the matter is that video games and the internet are immaterial to this argument, it's like of course you get instances of sexism and racism on them because ultimately they are created by human beings. you won't change the medium - the only thing that would do anything there would be something like the ESRB checking to make sure that everything is okay in terms of women being respected etc. and rating/censoring a game accordingly. when artists and writers stop creating work that regards women in disrespectful ways then video games, comics, and everything else will be free of this issue. and that won't happen until society itself changes, because society is where everyone, including those people, are formed.

i guess i just don't feel, considering this, that her project and the money donated to it is warranted. take 100k and put it into programs that will actually affect people's development and perception in the first place, rather than this which will not change anybody's mind. honestly, think about it: anyone who watches this in the first place is probably already going to know the score. they will probably go into it with an opinion already set, and leave with the exact same opinion afterwards. people who go in not caring that princess peach is a symbol of female repression aren't going to suddenly change their minds afterwards. focusing on video games entirely seems like more of a way to just pull money and popularity out of the internet, and to play up/take advantage of the fact that "gamers" and internet denizens contain a very vocal population of assholes. people have already stated that the problem runs far deeper than just video games so i'm not really saying anything new - my opinion is simply knowing that fact makes this whole project less valuable.

i guess i can't complain about people donating though - people have always had donation links on their page. kickstarter just makes it a publicly viewable number.

@Cincaid said:

The whole "welcome to Internet"-excuse is really tiresome. Just because you can act like a total dick, doesn't mean you should act like a total dick.

I came here to post this. People need to grow the fuck up and act like civilized human beings.

@TheKing said:

@Cincaid said:

The whole "welcome to Internet"-excuse is really tiresome. Just because you can act like a total dick, doesn't mean you should act like a total dick.

I came here to post this. People need to grow the fuck up and act like civilized human beings.

humans aren't civilized and never will be.

My problem with Anita Sarkeesian is is that she's getting publicity and money for reading off of TVTropes Gender and Sexuality tropes. And it's entirely frustrating because it's portrayed as a) new information that none of us have thought of, b) that it's her work, c) all female tropes are negative, and d) these are only relevant to video game culture. Each of her 'episodes' on her expose might as well just be reading the page for the associated trope.

By drawing attention to youtube comments and hate-mongering trolls, it only gives them more encouragement to go bigger, and that actually works in her favor (as I'm sure she's realized). By depicting the most savage and brutal of dissent, she can create a narrative where you can either agree with her in full, or you're a misogynistic troglodyte. Your choice is between boorish chauvinism or sycophantic chivalry. Support her and give her your money, or you hate women. And that turns even those sympathetic against her, because it makes her come off as another censor here to take away the video games. Not to create better ones, but to take them away in full because some are bad (and there plenty of examples of bad characterization of women, absolutely). I hate all the people who troll and shout hate at women, but I find it incredibly agitating that I'm delivered this false dichotomy of misogyny or infantilization.

And ultimately it leads to insane overreactions and double standards like you see in the Tomb Raider game and Hitman trailer. The moment when you stop asking for something better and start demanding double standards is when I'm all the way out.

@WilliamRLBaker said:

@TheKing said:

@Cincaid said:

The whole "welcome to Internet"-excuse is really tiresome. Just because you can act like a total dick, doesn't mean you should act like a total dick.

I came here to post this. People need to grow the fuck up and act like civilized human beings.

pre-teens on the internet aren't civilized and never will be.

@fRAWRst said:

you guys should send me money

for research and stuff

I'd be willing to bet after the whole troll storm, her kickerstarter donations went up a ton. It gave her controversy, attention and she gets to play the victim/sympathy card. The whole project seems self-indulgent but good on her for making lemonade out of lemons.