Game of the Year 2017 Day Five: Best, Worst, Cast, and Capture

I must be the only one who actually enjoyed Mass Effect Andromeda. Granted the story was weak and buggy at times but still had fun zooming around that world.

I'm glad PUBG won, just like Hitman, the game that spawns the most content/discussion on the site should get it.

But man, it's fucking insane that Horizon didn't make the top ten.

Its combat and dinobot A.I. was so well done, the visuals were some of the best I've ever seen, and the premise was pretty decent too despite most of the missions being a bore. I get not digging the world traversal so much in retrospect after playing Zelda, but that game did so many things right there should be a post award award for the best game that somehow got shut out.

Shit's nuts.

For real.

It's not my list but after getting through nearly 5 hours to figure out how they got there I can sure as hell respect it. Biggest take-away from all this is I should probably play NieR lmao

A lot of the talk around NieR: Automata is becoming really off putting for me. There's only a few days left of 2017, so a lot of that type of discussion will go away, but people shitting on NieR just gets old. First and foremost that game is about its story. That ranges from the main plot, to the characters, to the themes, to the side quests, to the crazier NieR/Drakengard stuff (which you don't have to know about any of it; it's just fun to know that it's there). And a lot of these have different dynamics. Like 2B and Pascal are fascinating characters, but there's also stuff like 2B's relationship with 60 or how pods 153 and 042 begin talking to each other towards the later parts of the game. The themes aren't just "Robots!", but what does it mean to be human, where do you find your purpose, and people struggling with cycles of hate, war, and death. The side stories, like the battle of Pearl Harbor, the Engels machine, and the 2E YoRHa unit add a lot of character to the world and build on the various themes. On top of that the game has a killer soundtrack and a great style. The pervy comments about this game I never understood (especially since, yo, if you want some pervy games from Japan, they're easy to find). 2B's outfit in particular just reminds me of some of the fashion you see out of Tokyo.

If you don't like NieR, that's fine. If that game isn't for you, that's fine. That said some of the conversations feel like people have to get at NieR....but for what? In general, my tolerance when it comes to arguing about certain topics (especially things that really aren't that important in the grand scheme of things) has gone way down. Half of this is with all of the other shit that is going on in the world and the other half is just where I am at the moment. Some of the past GOTY discussions have gotten heated about random topics and maybe I wouldn't enjoy those as much if I were to listen to them again. That said, I would love to hear more stuff like Austin's Invisible Inc. pitch or Dan and Alex fighting for Stardew Valley and Thumper.

The Game of the Year Deliberations were great this year and this remains some of the best stuff that happens all year. That said, some stuff like how people have to shit on NieR just gets under my skin. Also Persona 5 not winning Best Styyyyyyyyyyyle.

Nier is alright as long as you put in the effort to beat it 5 times.

I didn't even play it, @zombiepie told me to say that

Dream Daddy actually cracked top 10 but Persona 5 is no where to be seen....

NieR is an excellent game that plays out over several different perspectives. It is also more accurate to say it is a game of three main acts, as opposed to saying you have to replay the entire game five times, since 1) This isn't true, and 2) Endings C, D, and E can be obtained within 30 to 60 minutes. Although if other people--like @zombiepie(?) <glares>--don't feel the same way that is quite alright.

Abby's deliberating technique is certainly... unorthodox.

I played PUBG for about an hour and a half before refunding it, so it's definitely not for me, but like Hitman last year I enjoyed watching the team play it immensely, so fair enough.

@vincentvendetta: I think Internet Dan is a lie, its just Dan.

I suppose you missed the part where the majority of the game's faults were its characters, plot, and world being a far-cry from the standard set be its predecessors. While the technical issues the game faced are the icing on the cake, they were singled-out as inexcusable because it was a big-budget project released in 2017.

They really dismiss a lot of games that are on my personal top 10 (Hollow Knight, Persona 5, Pyre, Nioh, Horizon, Thimbleweed Park, Everything)

Just goes to show what a good year for games 2017 has been.

When I heard "I just think Cuphead should be higher" to the 500 time, I just wanted to hide in a bathroom surrounded by 99 brown robots.

These Game of the Year articles aren't reviews, they're categorical summations of the experiences the GB crew had with the games they played this year. If you want conversations regarding the gameplay and experiences therein, direct yourself to the podcasts and articles that were published around the time of a specific game's release, as well as the conversations had during the GotY podcasts themselves, and you'll find a swath of dialogue regarding those exact things. I'm not sure what your expecting here, but what you've singled out as lacking in these articles has already been covered extensively.

use the austin walker bad take tweet on PUBG being higher than #5 tbh.

wow.... I understand what PUBG did as far as attention goes, but... just... fucking what? wow... to give a gimmick game GotY is like giving it to CoD because it sold well... but if they all agreed on it i guess its valid in their eyes. Hell of a year for video games!

I'd switch Nier and PUBG's places and I'm surprised Persona 5 isn't on there. Or at least I was surprised until I realized that most of them probably didn't have time to play through much of it so it makes sense. I didn't really play many new games this year so I don't have much else to say about the rest of their choices. Looking forward to listening to how they got here.

Than how would it be Giant Bombs GOTY? that is absurd

I also like it when games are fun to play without being repetitious and have decent, non-anime styled, voice acting. Wait, are we talking about Nier or Persona 5? I don't even know anymore!

It was an exciting year for gaming. To me, the best games this year each had their critical flaws others didn't. I find this comforting because it is a sign there's a growing diversity in the industry which didn't exist before. Bright minds are getting involved in the industry that otherwise wouldn't have, and this will only change the industry for the better. The discussions and debates surrounding GOTY are, at least I hope, a hypercharged personification of this. And through it all, we can at least agree more experiences, whatever shape they may take, continue to champion this diversity.

@clagnaught: Persona 5 SHOULD have won best style (IMO) but I would argue the first Nier did almost everything better, except for gameplay.

This was some of the best GOTY discussions Giant Bomb have done, enjoyed each day immensely. I only disagreed with two of the outcomes, which is very rare for these deliberations:

1. Gregg was robbed
2. I've played 70 hours of Zelda but even I can agree with Jeff that it's influence is super overblown and I would have it wayyy lower on the list, bumping Nier up to 2nd place.

Some of Abby's arguments were repetitive, but this has happened before with Brad and Dan in previous years so it's par for the course at this point. Overall, great discussions for one of the best years in gaming :)

Edit: After reading through comments here, I'm kind of perplexed at people saying the arguments were shallow this year? I think out of all the years, they gave a lot of time for the discussions to play out naturally whereas in other years it can feel a little rushed and like the passion wasn't there. I thought Vinny and Abby's arguments for Dream Daddy were thorough and convincing and although I think Yakuza should have taken it's place on Giant Bomb's list given the influence it had on the site, I can see the reasoning for it being at an honorary number 11 given the discussions that took place.

Kind of blown away that neither Nioh nor Horizon even cracked the top 10. Oh well!

@busto1299 said:

I haven't listened yet but is it worse than the Saints Row 3 vs. Skyrim debate?

If I never have to hear about Dream Daddy again it will be too soon.

By that logic, how could you consider this year to be "Giant Bombs GOTY", considering how Jan wasn't involved? You don't need every single person to be involved for it to still be Giant Bomb's GOTY, and I argue that it would be better off if everyone wasn't part of it for the reasons I described in my previous post. Don't have to agree with me, but I'd appreciate it if you weren't dismissive.

@robbparris:

Zelda definitely has flaws. But it also has the most impressive blend of ambition, polish and sheer fun I’ve seen in my 30+ years of gaming.

The flaws come at the expense of what it sets out to do. When Zelda soars it creates new heights and BOTW soars much more often than it hiccups.

I feel like the nitpicks have been parroted to such an extent that it affects the game like no other before it. It’s a game that begs you to get lost in its world. A game that begs you to turn off any waypoints and take in the sheer amount of design prowess and dedication that went into crafting said world. The implementation of verticality and landmarks that always give you a sense of place and purpose without beginning to consult a map is on a level of its own. La creme de la creme.

And yet new players are going in thinking “well, I heard weapons break easy”, or “yeah it does rain a lot here”... taking what they’ve heard and spoiling a game that deserves to be played blind. With no distractions or presumptions.

Personally, it is without a doubt the game of the year and among the greatest of all time. I find it sad that some can’t shake “the dirt” as Jeff put it and enjoy it for everything that it does exceedingly well. It’s THE benchmark.

Just finished Best Game.

Good lord. Did I not call PUBG as GotY like months ago? Lame. I feel like it's the same issue as Mario Maker. If, for whatever reason, a game comes up as some kind of thing for a couple of people on the site, it's treated as some otherworldly godly game, even with all it's flaws!

I cannot believe Zelda, with all of it's broad, yet integral flaws got that high. Disappointed Jeff and Ben didn't shoot that one down harder.

I also think Dan raised a perfectly fair point against Dream Daddy about the lack of experience the crew has with the genre. Abby said so many times that the game was doing new things, except Jeff is the only one who has attempted to try some and I'd bet he wasn't particularly seeking out "good" ones. I've never played a game in this genre, but I still see people mention other visual novel type games as being good and maybe not all porn? I just don't see the argument that Dream Daddy is so much better than all these other games.. that they've never played and don't seem to know anything about. Again, never played one, but I think it was fair for Dan to use that argument and yet they kept dismissing it. Not complaining about it being on the list, just sucks when they debate like that.

I haven't played Nier and don't really expect to. That being said, I dreaded Abby bringing up any sexual or porn related flaw about Nier because I don't think any of the other guys can effectively argue against that in any way or degree without committing career suicide these days. If it were me, I'd say.. Alright.. So what? It doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. Some people, males and females, are into it. The developer is into it. Japan is a different culture. It was a conscience choice to have it. Perhaps you as an individual are uncomfortable seeing some underwear. The rest of the game outweighs a little bit of that "pervy stuff". I'm not bothered by seeing a male character in his underwear, or even butt naked. But yea, no one there can say that, even if they wanted to. Again, I didn't played Neir so I have no personal bias on it, just some thoughts.

And I've already said it a bunch throughout these deliberations but Horizon got so F'd over here that it's sad. Horizon = Game of the Year.

Edit: Oh yea, more thoughts:

I thought Ben did a good job. I think he brought up good points but also wasn't just repeating himself over and over. I do wish he would've spoke up more, but I don't think he wanted to get into a heated talk with someone.

Vinny also did very good. He is always well measured in these. Very well spoken and thoughtful about what he says and it isn't just repeating the same thing over and over. He's always been like the mediator or neutral ground.

The one thing I wish I would've seen was some Devil's Advocate play here. I feel like Vinny has done this in the past but I think it's really good when you have someone who is being super stubborn about a game, if someone else who doesn't really care for or against the game, just starts trying to shoot down someone elses point. If it's a neutral party, the person feels less threatened by it, and doesn't just respond with "well.. because!" or "well.. it wasn't that way for me!" and maybe instead force them to come up with a logical explanation as to why it is the way it is, could it be changed or improved etc.

I think these deliberations would've been very different if people had played more of or played a game at release instead of trying to force it on themselves right before GotY or when there was no active social, meta discussion or whatever around the office, the podcasts, or online.

So many good games were robbed of the credit they deserve by a site that I once regarded as being highly credible.. Dream Daddy had no business even being mentioned in any of these conversations yet it was in the top 3 more than Horizon and Yakuza 0. That is an embarrassment and makes the site lose legitimacy in a big way. It's very sad and unfortunate. I don't agree with PUBG BEING number one either, but otherwise to be something to it because clearly a lot of people like it so I can accept that choice

I will never wrap my head around Dream Daddy or Night in the Woods getting anywhere within top 10, especially with Doki Doki Literature Club barely getting a pass. Let me make it clear, I think all these games rely on narrative gimmicks and spend way too much time trying to flesh a game out of a thought that is entertaining for a minute at best and at worst its a more than 2 hour game that wastes your time. I would take a walking sim like That Dragon, Cancer over any of these games because it's the only story that is achingly sincere and relatable with a real personal tragedy. I'm genuinely starting to despise narrative driven games. If I want an amazing narrative I'll buy something by Don DeLillo lol. Stop trying to make me buy these dumb games because "buh muh writing". The writing is always bad. Dan is the only one who gets it.

@relkin: Im sorry I did not mean to come off as dismissive and dickish, but Jan did posit a few thoughts and the chaos is part and parcel with the Giant Bomb style. I feel this year was more slapdash than previous but Ben and Abby were getting used to it and you could feel that. I did not mean offense especially because I have come to terms with the fact Giant Bombs GOTY list is so different from mine that I dismiss criticisms as pointless.

@fluttercry: I was not around the site in 2011 but Ive have already listened to that podcast and that discussion was kinda more engaging and interesting from some of the stuff from this year, even though that conversation was just "Yo, fuck bugs Skyrim rules!" and " But saints row tho!" (Both games are awesome imo)

Look, going into the Top 10 I had pretty low expectations as my tastes (story based RPGs) is heavily disliked by the GB crew and I accept that, but the previous awards had my expectations bottomed out, I didn't think it could get any worse... boy was I wrong. Considering my favorite games of the year they either didn't play, didn't beat (let alone get close to beat), or didn't give a rats ass about it honestly boggles my mind to see a game like Horizon, which got 5 stars on this site, casually tossed aside without even a bat of the eyelashes along with Persona 5, Nioh, and Hellblade. It was just like eh, we have amazing stuff like Destiny 2, Tekken 7, and Dream Daddy to argue about, so who cares about those clearly not top 10 games. Like I get that new Destiny is great, especially when it introduces TONS of new enemies and tons of NEW stuff, but this was a good year with good games, Destiny is so far from the Top 10 its silly.

Then we come to the unmentionables of:
Prey - I can only assume they honestly forgot it came out this year as it even seems like a potential GB Top 10 as its a FPS

Divinity OS 2 - which is clearly not their cup of tea as its a story based RPG, but not even a mention in all the vods

The Long Dark - pretty incredible survival game, the best of its genre making insane strides

South Park - I wouldn't expect to make it through be not being mentioned was surprising

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 -totally get this not being mentioned it came out too late to be considered, let alone is a JRPG

Add all that in with some just poor discussion and maan, you all need to figure stuff out for next year.

@grizzlybutts: She just got out of school....

I agree 100%. That last hour or two of the GOTY was a real chore solely because of that. Just repeating the same meaningless phrases over and over again, waiting for someone to stop talking so she could immediately step in without even giving time for what was just said to sink in. I'm not sure but I think she might have thought Cuphead should have been higher on the list? /sarcasm.

I like Abby and what she's brought to the table but she obviously needs to be better at being part of a team. Especially a team with tons of experience that she doesn't have. I think the guys did a good job hearing her arguments and earnestly taking what she said to heart when fighting for her games but she gave none of that back to them.

Your comments on this article are bad and you should feel bad.

@grayfox666: I agree with you that this year felt slapdash, and I too have long gotten used to the crew having wildly different opinions from my own (poor Hollow Knight). I just come to these podcasts for some good discussion; hearing the crew articulate exactly why they like or dislike a game, and trying to convince each other of their viewpoints through thought-out arguments. I don't think I got that this year.

While I get the point of this argument, as it adds validity to the idea of a "staff list", having that be a major factor is a bad idea. First, it is not even consistent. Yakuza Zero brought 30+ hours of content to the site this year, and it is not even in the top 10. I know only four people played it, and one of those misunderstood the systems to a rather large degree that he started to hate the game... Second, it is not very fair. A lot of games could be presented in a let's play format, but we get so few video series like that a year. Third, that idea favors multiplayer games (or "replayable type games, see Hitman), so would a single player game ever win?

Anyways, maybe you quite didn't mean it that way. If so, ignore everything I said.