I just pissed off two groups with one topic title. The ones that blindly hate Kojima and the ones who believe Stephen King is a God. But let me explain my reasoning for why I believe both are highly alike.
Hideo Kojima is kinda like Stephen King if you think about it...
I would lump George Lucas in with these two. All three of them tell awesome stories, but they can't write dialogue for shit.
I would lump George Lucas in with these two. All three of them tell awesome stories, but they can't write dialogue for shit.I would say that George Lucas is worse at dialogue than Hideo or King. Hideo at least has some meaning behind his dialogue and it usually works VERY well most of the time, often times being so good that it is quite quotable, "War as a videogame, what better way to create the ultimate soldier." George however hasn't been able to write worth a damn for a while now. the star wars prequals are proof enough. Hell, even the cartoon series based on his movies are better written than the main movies. While King is good at dialogue but the occiasional character just sounds... off. But even then, his best is great, "Go then, there are other worlds than these!"
also OP you say they are kinda like each other but you spend the entire post shitting on stephen king and then raising up kojima. I am personally insulted that one of my favorite authors was compared to that hackjob.Dude, Stephen King can't make a great ending, that isn't just my opinion, that is fact now. He constantly creates great stories but his endings are almost always cringe worthy amounts of underwhelming. While Hideo on a constant basis makes amazing endings that actually do feel like endings. Great ones.
@PrivateIronTFU said:Several dozen scholarly essays have been written on King's bad dialog. Im sorry you have to find out this way but not everyone finds the New Englander quaint stupidity charming. King really enjoys magic retards.I would lump George Lucas in with these two. All three of them tell awesome stories, but they can't write dialogue for shit.stephen king is fantastic at dialogue, are you mad?
Frankly I don't find King and Kojima to be very comparable at all.
Also, just my opinion of course and maybe we can blame culture and/or translation, but I think Kojima is a terrible writer.
@Jay444111 said:Those are the only few books from him that the ending wasn't half assed though. While pretty much everything he makes now has some horrible endings to them which leave many readers baffled on why he did them. Running man and the long walk had great endings though. This is a pretty common opinion of King fans actually. Long walk has the more ambitious ending while The running man has the most manly ending in a book ever read. (seriously, that ending is... Gurren Lagann kinds of epic.)Now, certain books like Running Man and The Long Walk have great endings.
Dude, Stephen King can't make a great ending, that isn't just my opinion, that is fact now.
I aint going to deny that king likes his magical retards (there were no retards in under the dome, so THERE) and duma key was just as great, even though it was set in Florida. wanna link some of these "scholarly" essays and it's totally going to change my opinion and what you think about his dialogue is totally not subjective, which admittedly makes my earlier comment worthless but trolling is fun sometimes@Laketown said:
@PrivateIronTFU said:Several dozen scholarly essays have been written on King's bad dialog. Im sorry you have to find out this way but not everyone finds the New Englander quaint stupidity charming. King really enjoys magic retards.I would lump George Lucas in with these two. All three of them tell awesome stories, but they can't write dialogue for shit.stephen king is fantastic at dialogue, are you mad?
also you just talked about his movies so your opinion is totally invalid
@jaycee13 said:The point was that you made a statement and then completely contradicted it. Also, you are not a writer.@Jay444111 said:Those are the only few books from him that the ending wasn't half assed though. While pretty much everything he makes now has some horrible endings to them which leave many readers baffled on why he did them. Running man and the long walk had great endings though. This is a pretty common opinion of King fans actually. Long walk has the more ambitious ending while The running man has the most manly ending in a book ever read. (seriously, that ending is... Gurren Lagann kinds of epic.)Now, certain books like Running Man and The Long Walk have great endings.
Dude, Stephen King can't make a great ending, that isn't just my opinion, that is fact now.
@ryanwho said:Can I talk about the movie he directed, at least? I'm not casting aspersions on his premises. He, like Philip K Dick, can inspire people with the ideas he touches on to make something collectively greater, like the Shining movie (that he hated). But that doesn't make his books flawless. Can anyone really defend some of the choices he makes in the later Dark Tower books?I aint going to deny that king likes his magical retards (there were no retards in under the dome, so THERE) and duma key was just as great, even though it was set in Florida. wanna link some of these "scholarly" essays and it's totally going to change my opinion and what you think about his dialogue is totally not subjective, which admittedly makes my earlier comment worthless but trolling is fun sometimesalso you just talked about his movies so your opinion is totally invalid@Laketown said:
@PrivateIronTFU said:Several dozen scholarly essays have been written on King's bad dialog. Im sorry you have to find out this way but not everyone finds the New Englander quaint stupidity charming. King really enjoys magic retards.I would lump George Lucas in with these two. All three of them tell awesome stories, but they can't write dialogue for shit.stephen king is fantastic at dialogue, are you mad?
The Running Man was such a goofy movie. I should hope all the 80s schlock in that movie was not part of the original book.Hell no, the only parts where it was goofy was in the way that the host acts and treats everyone, that was literally the only thing they kept. Everything else is a insult to the book.
@Laketown said:I'm definitely not saying his books are flawless, I hate a good many of his books, and what decisions with the dark tower are you referring to? if you mean the ending, well, I think that he couldn't have ended it another way...@ryanwho said:Can I talk about the movie he directed, at least? I'm not casting aspersions on his premises. He, like Philip K Dick, can inspire people with the ideas he touches on to make something collectively greater, like the Shining movie (that he hated). But that doesn't make his books flawless. Can anyone really defend some of the choices he makes in the later Dark Tower books?I aint going to deny that king likes his magical retards (there were no retards in under the dome, so THERE) and duma key was just as great, even though it was set in Florida. wanna link some of these "scholarly" essays and it's totally going to change my opinion and what you think about his dialogue is totally not subjective, which admittedly makes my earlier comment worthless but trolling is fun sometimesalso you just talked about his movies so your opinion is totally invalid@Laketown said:
@PrivateIronTFU said:Several dozen scholarly essays have been written on King's bad dialog. Im sorry you have to find out this way but not everyone finds the New Englander quaint stupidity charming. King really enjoys magic retards.I would lump George Lucas in with these two. All three of them tell awesome stories, but they can't write dialogue for shit.stephen king is fantastic at dialogue, are you mad?
If you mean song of susannah than I'm totally not going to defend it and I can't even remember what was in that book. Maybe callahan? The Callahan part was one of the only good things about that book.
@Laketown said:I will agree that The Dark Tower final book could've been WAY better. Susan is annoying, and everything else that happened was kinda bullcrap. Espically the ending. Also, Maximum Overdrive wasn't that bad. Certainly better than most modern movies made today. But it does have a good charm to it.@ryanwho said:Can I talk about the movie he directed, at least? I'm not casting aspersions on his premises. He, like Philip K Dick, can inspire people with the ideas he touches on to make something collectively greater, like the Shining movie (that he hated). But that doesn't make his books flawless. Can anyone really defend some of the choices he makes in the later Dark Tower books?I aint going to deny that king likes his magical retards (there were no retards in under the dome, so THERE) and duma key was just as great, even though it was set in Florida. wanna link some of these "scholarly" essays and it's totally going to change my opinion and what you think about his dialogue is totally not subjective, which admittedly makes my earlier comment worthless but trolling is fun sometimesalso you just talked about his movies so your opinion is totally invalid@Laketown said:
@PrivateIronTFU said:Several dozen scholarly essays have been written on King's bad dialog. Im sorry you have to find out this way but not everyone finds the New Englander quaint stupidity charming. King really enjoys magic retards.I would lump George Lucas in with these two. All three of them tell awesome stories, but they can't write dialogue for shit.stephen king is fantastic at dialogue, are you mad?
It just goes off the rails. 9-11 references, writing himself into the book. Its like a caricature of a King book. Which, to relate back to the topic, is kind of what Kojima is now. Sort of a caricature of himself. Its impossible to deny the impact King made through the 70s and 80s, but modern King is harder to defend. That's all.
@ryanwho said:I don't see why people hate the fifth book, it is MUCH better than the crap that is the fourth one. Hell, the comic books are a much better replacement for the fourth book than anything. At least they don't bore you to tears.@Laketown said:I'm definitely not saying his books are flawless, I hate a good many of his books, and what decisions with the dark tower are you referring to? if you mean the ending, well, I think that he couldn't have ended it another way...If you mean song of susannah than I'm totally not going to defend it and I can't even remember what was in that book. Maybe callahan? The Callahan part was one of the only good things about that book.@ryanwho said:Can I talk about the movie he directed, at least? I'm not casting aspersions on his premises. He, like Philip K Dick, can inspire people with the ideas he touches on to make something collectively greater, like the Shining movie (that he hated). But that doesn't make his books flawless. Can anyone really defend some of the choices he makes in the later Dark Tower books?I aint going to deny that king likes his magical retards (there were no retards in under the dome, so THERE) and duma key was just as great, even though it was set in Florida. wanna link some of these "scholarly" essays and it's totally going to change my opinion and what you think about his dialogue is totally not subjective, which admittedly makes my earlier comment worthless but trolling is fun sometimesalso you just talked about his movies so your opinion is totally invalid@Laketown said:
@PrivateIronTFU said:Several dozen scholarly essays have been written on King's bad dialog. Im sorry you have to find out this way but not everyone finds the New Englander quaint stupidity charming. King really enjoys magic retards.I would lump George Lucas in with these two. All three of them tell awesome stories, but they can't write dialogue for shit.stephen king is fantastic at dialogue, are you mad?
also OP you say they are kinda like each other but you spend the entire post shitting on stephen king and then raising up kojima. I am personally insulted that one of my favorite authors was compared to that hackjob.I am personally insulted one of my favorite game developers was called a hackjob by you. You can pissed at the OP but dont drag down Hideo for the OP's ignorance.
oh and I guess we can agree on one thing, because the 4th book was shite. susannah was the 6th book though, I generally like the 5th one (that was wolves of the calla)
@Laketown said:I am just offering my damn opinion on both of them as writers, stop flaming dammit. This is not what the topic is about.also OP you say they are kinda like each other but you spend the entire post shitting on stephen king and then raising up kojima. I am personally insulted that one of my favorite authors was compared to that hackjob.I am personally insulted one of my favorite game developers was called a hackjob by you. You can pissed at the OP but dont drag down Hideo for the OP's ignorance.
Otacon is great??? In my opinion he is one of the most annoying characters I have ever had to put up with in a game.
Stephen King books have pretty fun journeys. But the destinations often make you question if the gas money was worth it. Like that book Under the Dome. It was entertaining as shit. And then it got to the end.
In all fairness, Hideo Kojima wishes he could be half the writer Stephen King is.Not really considering both seem pretty equal as writers go.
Otacon is great??? In my opinion he is one of the most annoying characters I have ever had to put up with in a game.Because he changed throughout the games he was in. At first he was a coward that pissed his pants at anything that moved, now is a brave guy trying to save his friends lives in the best way he can. All the while having to deal with some major family problems and some major losses all along the way and gets stronger through it all. Great character in my opinion.
I've seen you mention you're a writer constantly too, and as a writer, I would like to see you back up this statement. Please send me somewhere that I can see a piece of writing that you were paid for. If you have never been published, and have never been paid for your work, you aren't really a writer. You just write as a hobby, or with the intent of becoming a writer. I like acting, but I don't go around saying I'm a professional actor because I was in my high school play.@jaycee13: Which is still an insult to me as a writer. Please leave, if you keep this up this will just envelope the topic I made and I don't want that for the sane fact that one person doesn't like me. Either add something to the damn topic or just not say anything. If not, will editing my post to use the word except make you feel better? Get some damn manners, please for the topics sake.
To stay on topic, I'd argue that The Dark Tower is just as daring, if not more so, than most of Kojima's work; if by daring you mean taking risks and being ambitious. Also, the tail end of MGS4 with the return of a certain character and MGS4 as a whole as an ending to the series is terrible because it's full of retcons and convenient, nonsensical explanations.
I like both of them, but your comparisons aren't really very strong. This is a horribly thought out argument. "They are both alike so I'm going to go into great detail about how they're not alike at all and often take one side over the other."
The only real statement you made that didn't contradict your thread title is that they both have created memorable characters (and you even contradict that in the next sentence). Oh, and "both are talented, but not perfect", which you could say almost any pairing of artists. A better title would've been, "Here's why Storyteller A has a lot in common with Storyteller B: They both do good stuff but not always".
"But I will say that Hideo is a much more daring man than Stephen King is about story."
I'm not a fan of King, but this is without question just plain wrong. Kojima can afford to be incoherent and over the top because of the medium with which he tells a story. King doesn't get the luxury of being a narcissist.
The end of King's books make you feel like a schmuck for enduring them, unlike Kojima's game where the endings seem to give some actual finality; completely at odds with most video game storytelling conventions.
Alright, so. Snake and Deschain are badasses,and... Wait. That is your big reveal and similarity? That both are responsible for two badass characters? Yeah, they're TOTALLY alike! Seriously, if your post is supposed to talk about how alike they are as writers, you should talk about that instead of talking about how they're different in terms of quality on almost all aspects of writing. Your post is awfully silly as it is.
1. I think Kojima's writing is for the most parts pretty atrocious. Especially dialogue is laughable and it only flies with his fanboys because all of it happens in the realm of videogames.
2. You say "why they are alike" in the title and then you spend your whole post pointing out how different they are. Get some coherence into your writing.
3. This just smells like blind Kojima-love.
I can admit i'm kind of a kojima fanboy but i have to say i'm not sure you can say hideo kojima does certain things better or how this thread makes sense. Both of them have good elements but are in completely different genres. Whilst you could argue that some of the elements of metal gear solid blend with the supernatural horror of Stephen King such as the beauties, these elements are quickly removed with a single boss fight. Beyond that, i'm not sure how they can be compared (unless we go down the path of all the dialogue in the universe which is fairly common in this horror genre).
Y'know, As a fan I was ready to flame the OP when I saw the title of the thread. After reading his post however, he's pretty much spot on.
Comparing a game designer's writing to a (mediocre) writer's writing seems pointless. Kojima may write bizarre fever-dream political intrigue, but as a game designer he is brilliant. Has King ever done anything with his medium like the Psycho Mantis battle in MGS or the Sorrow in Snake Eater? How about that incredibly long ladder or the fake fail screens in MGS2? In this, he's more comparable to John Barth or Robert Coover or someone like Italo Calvino. There may be other designers that really mess around with the medium more, Suda51 comes to mind, but Kojima can really blow your mind in ways King never will. He's much more comparable to postmodernism or metafiction than popular horror/fantasy.
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