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#1 Edited by IBurningStar (2160 posts) -

After watching it and seeing her clearly claim to not actually care about games I have to really question why she got so involved in this one particular issue. I already thought a lot of her research was questionable and her points poorly defined or explained. Revealing herself to not be an expert or having a lot of experience with the medium makes me feel like her criticism carries even less weight. It probably also explains why I feel like a lot of what she does is just quick surface level analysis with her just screaming ITS SEXIST without properly explaining why. And I'm not saying she has to have played every game ever and have an encyclopedic knowledge of games, but like most critics I prefer for them to know the history of what they are discussing, as well as the history of various genres within. She has made some good points and hey, I'm glad that someone is trying to bring up some real issues and get that conversation going, but I don't trust her. I don't trust her research, I don't trust her motives, and I don't trust her agenda.

Also, chugging a flame resistance potion because I know I'm going to get flamed by someone for this.

#2 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

guess I will post it here again.

we all ave different opinions on what even a gamer is. So what if she is a gamer or not? That does not make her opinion better or worse. For me no matter if she is a gamer or not she is pushing her agenda through lies and that will never change. Not because she is no gamer but because she is a radical feminist which tries to force her view on other people and does not do anything to discuss her points with anyone who has not the same opinion as herself.

#3 Edited by JasonR86 (9587 posts) -

You don't have to be a fan of a medium to critique it.

#4 Posted by IBurningStar (2160 posts) -

@jasonr86: No, but saying you are something that you are not is disingenuous.

#5 Edited by AlexW00d (6168 posts) -

@jasonr86 said:

You don't have to be a fan of a medium to critic it.

Of course you do. That's like me critiquing Soap Operas, I have no knowledge of them so what the fuck does my opinion matter for?

#6 Posted by Marokai (2792 posts) -

This is a person who was involved in the public speaking/teleseminar business, who has been proven to steal her footage of video games that she includes in her Tropes series from Let's Players without giving credit, who censors discussion and refuses to engage her critics, who was really into a lot of sketchy social psychology junk, and who we know absolutely nothing about re: her experience with video games beyond what she tells us in her videos because, to my knowledge, she's given out none of her gaming credentials (gamertags, usernames, anything like that).

And somehow the idea that she might be using this topic as a convenient way to portray herself as a victim and further her career comes as a shock to people, believed only by sexist conspiracy nuts.

Puh-leez.

#7 Posted by bigjeffrey (4716 posts) -

SHE IS UNBEARABLE to watch or listen to. Go away.

but I don't trust her. I don't trust her research, I don't trust her motives, and I don't trust her agenda.

Yes this

#8 Edited by JasonR86 (9587 posts) -

@alexw00d said:

@jasonr86 said:

You don't have to be a fan of a medium to critic it.

Of course you do. That's like me critiquing Soap Operas, I have no knowledge of them so what the fuck does my opinion matter for?

If you studied up on Soap Operas and then gave a reasonable critique of it then I would take you seriously. I took a class in college in Victorian literature. I'm not a fan of Victorian literature it turns out. But I read what was assigned thought about it critically when I did my assignments and discussed the readings. One is not a prerequisite for the other.

@jasonr86: No, but saying you are something that you are not is disingenuous.

She also said in that video that she would like to play games if she had more access to games that didn't involve killing. On her twitter she mentioned that she really like Gone Home (of course she would but that's beside the point). I got the impression that she liked the idea of games and playing them but that she was frustrated with what had happened to the medium. I never thought that she was playing 10-20-30 games a year and kept up with every little thing that happened in the field. I assumed that was why she needed monetary support and time to research these games. She had a general idea of why she disliked what had happened to the medium but needed to do the work to give her arguments support.

#9 Posted by Krullban (1021 posts) -

Ah. I was gonna post this, but I posted it in another thread instead.

#10 Posted by davidwitten22 (1708 posts) -

I feel... completely indifferent. I don't care. I didn't back the kickstarter and I'm not particularly interested in her or anyone's research or opinions in sexism in games at the moment (I have my own views that no one cares about) so I don't feel a thing watching that video.

#11 Edited by bwheeeler (418 posts) -

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

#12 Posted by Pr1mus (3780 posts) -

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

#13 Posted by Nilazz (606 posts) -

#14 Posted by jimmyfenix (3816 posts) -

Oh boy here we go again.

#15 Posted by EarlessShrimp (1631 posts) -

I feel... Strongly indifferent still? I don't really agree with what she says. It's more how she says it than what she says, I guess. But whatever I'll let her say her piece and then play a game because A) she can have her opinions and B) I like playing videogames.

#16 Posted by Sinusoidal (1267 posts) -

Vague thread titles that I have to click to find out what they mean?

Hate em.

Goodbye.

#17 Posted by Yummylee (21208 posts) -
@pr1mus said:
@bwheeeler said:

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

http://24.media.tumblr.com/4bc90527047efd2b10bfdc4a2fc2fc34/tumblr_mqjbxkhESq1snp8blo1_500.gif

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#18 Posted by GreggD (4475 posts) -
#19 Edited by SunBroZak (981 posts) -

Having payed little attention to the whole Sarkeesain thing, I can't really comment on the video. Though I believe that critique from those who play very little video-games should definitely be taken on board. If there's a reason these people are put off by video games then we should try and alleviate that. I'm not saying we all drop what we're doing and start making games solely for their needs, but bringing in a wider and more diverse audience into the gaming culture would be beneficial.

#20 Edited by Wolfgame (679 posts) -

I would anticipate many replies in another Anita topic, but saying she doesn't have to be a fan of gaming material in order to critique it as she does just seems bewildering to me. Isn't the basis for the feminist movement predicated on first hand experience? If this whole thing is simply a matter of laying claim to a cause you have no stake in, what is to stop a heterosexual from taking to kickstarter to fund videos about gay/lesbian portrayals in gaming? Would the reaction still be the same? Can you attach yourself to a cause simply because it's financially advantageous to do so? Are these questions worth answering?

Probably not, but these sarkeesian topics keep a coming, so i'm gonna haul ass to lollapalooza, here we go again...

#21 Posted by MB (11905 posts) -

Vague thread titles that I have to click to find out what they mean?

Hate em.

Goodbye.

I fixed it, I hate this too. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not but I really can't stand thread titles that aren't descriptive and force people to click on them to find out what they're even about. We even put something about this in the rules.

Moderator
#22 Posted by Animasta (14643 posts) -

I feel so much about it.

Like, I could not feel any more about this.

my feelings reach the level of 1 thousand suns of pressure.

It's literally the hugest amount of feelings I've had over a youtube video.

#23 Posted by GreggD (4475 posts) -

@mb said:

@sinusoidal said:

Vague thread titles that I have to click to find out what they mean?

Hate em.

Goodbye.

I fixed it, I hate this too. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not but I really can't stand thread titles that aren't descriptive and force people to click on them to find out what they're even about. We even put something about this in the rules.

Thank you for not locking it outright.

#24 Posted by Flappy (2114 posts) -

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck videogames in 2013.

#25 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3535 posts) -

@iburningstar:

Most people are not even going to bother watching the video. You should add the direct quotes to your original post.

Anita Sarkeesian: "I am not a fan of video games."

"I would love to play video games, but I don't want to go around shooting people, and ripping off their heads, and it's just gross."

@greggd said:

@mb said:

I fixed it, I hate this too. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not but I really can't stand thread titles that aren't descriptive and force people to click on them to find out what they're even about. We even put something about this in the rules.

Thank you for not locking it outright.

Thank you indeed. And I also loathe vague thread titles.

@jasonr86 said:

You don't have to be a fan of a medium to critique it.

This is absolutely true, but it still makes you a liar to say that you're a fan of a medium when you're really not. She could have presented this from the perspective of an outsider looking in. It would have been just as valid as criticism, and it would have actually been truthful.

#26 Posted by leebmx (2211 posts) -

For all this talk about sexism it always seems to be the people opposed to women's rights/don't think there is a problem who are starting these threads. I think there comes a point were people have to stop complaining about all the talk about sexism if they are the ones continually starting the discussions on Giant Bomb.

#27 Posted by ShaggE (6301 posts) -

My feelings are, in a nutshell, "Good god, can we focus on literally anything else? Every possible combination of words has already been said about her five times over."

Not saying this to you, OP, just the people that make endless videos and haven't said a sentence without her name embedded somewhere in it for the past year.

#28 Edited by Korwin (2815 posts) -

One of these days you people are going to have to learn to just drop it.

#29 Posted by kishinfoulux (2250 posts) -

"I am not a fan of video games, I had to learn a lot about them" -Anita Sarkeesian (2010) "I've been playing games since I was 5" (2012)

#30 Edited by falserelic (5280 posts) -

To be honest I don't even care anymore.

#31 Edited by Animasta (14643 posts) -
@kishinfoulux said:

"I am not a fan of video games, I had to learn a lot about them" -Anita Sarkeesian (2010) "I've been playing games since I was 5" (2012)

"I played a lot of Super Nintendo when i was younger and then fell off for the most part"

that theoretically would make both statements correct.

#32 Posted by FriendlyPhoenix (353 posts) -

I don't give a fuck. Honestly, nothing she does or says bothers me nearly as much as the people who feel the need to constantly remind everyone just how much they hate everything about her. If you want her to go away, then stop feeding the fucking fire and move on.

#33 Edited by joshthebear (2700 posts) -

Bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh.

#34 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3535 posts) -

@animasta said:
@kishinfoulux said:

"I am not a fan of video games, I had to learn a lot about them" -Anita Sarkeesian (2010) "I've been playing games since I was 5" (2012)

"I played a lot of Super Nintendo when i was younger and then fell off for the most part"

that theoretically would make both statements correct.

How about:

"I am not a fan of video games, I had to learn a lot about them. I would love to play video games, but I don't want to go around shooting people, and ripping off their heads, and it's just gross." - Anita Sarkeesian (2010)

"I'm a gamer, and I enjoy games. I love games. I'm a fan of games" - Anita Sarkeesian (2012)

Both statements still correct?

#35 Edited by Animasta (14643 posts) -

@spaceinsomniac: well, I mean, that second quote is after the first one so technically she could've had a change of heart

edit; seriously though who cares

#36 Edited by TheManWithNoPlan (5139 posts) -

I haven't watched or paid attention to anything she's done and I'm not gonna start now. I have no ill will towards her, but I would say as someone who's outside this, it does seem a little disingenuous of her to critique a medium she's has little to no interest in. It would register to me the same as someone on fox news talking about video games. Regardless of whether she actually plays or cares about games, I really hope her intentions were set in good will and not something selfish.

Really though, I think it's far past the point for people to keep talking about this.

#37 Posted by Viking_Funeral (1727 posts) -

This is a surprise?

Normally I'd say ignore her and she will stop being relevant, and I still hold that true, but at this point the extreme reactions she has caused in the gaming community has given rise to some fairly knee-jerk articles on sexism in gaming journalism. There's not even a discussion to be had, simply, "You're wrong, and fuck you!" I know that seems like hyperbole, but go look at the author's responses to articles about it on sites like RPS or Kotaku. (I know, I know... Kotaku is not exactly reputable, but RPS is.) And, unfortunately, there are enough angry, immature gamers who will take the bait and say inflammatory shit, which will then be used as evidence of a 'sexist gaming culture.'

There's a balance to be had here, for sure, and there is definitely room for improvement in the community... but Ms. Sarkeesian has done much to turn this whole thing into a battle of emotional extremism, where the score seems to be kept by who is the most offended. Honestly I'm just tired of the whole thing. So, yeah, let's ignore this and move on until there's a chance to have a reasonable discussion about the whole thing, if ever.

#38 Posted by Sergio (2038 posts) -

I don't think you really have to be a fan to criticise something. There are plenty of dogmatists who criticise things they aren't fans of and don't understand. However, their criticism usually aren't held up as valid like her work has been.

I think this is probably why she chooses to ignore the context when she analyzes things, as context generally requires being knowledgeable of what you're talking about. Her work pretty much is a bullet list of games she considers containing a particular trope.

#39 Posted by TruthTellah (8436 posts) -

@jasonr86 said:

@alexw00d said:

@jasonr86 said:

You don't have to be a fan of a medium to critic it.

Of course you do. That's like me critiquing Soap Operas, I have no knowledge of them so what the fuck does my opinion matter for?

If you studied up on Soap Operas and then gave a reasonable critique of it then I would take you seriously. I took a class in college in Victorian literature. I'm not a fan of Victorian literature it turns out. But I read what was assigned thought about it critically when I did my assignments and discussed the readings. One is not a prerequisite for the other.

@iburningstar said:

@jasonr86: No, but saying you are something that you are not is disingenuous.

She also said in that video that she would like to play games if she had more access to games that didn't involve killing. On her twitter she mentioned that she really like Gone Home (of course she would but that's beside the point). I got the impression that she liked the idea of games and playing them but that she was frustrated with what had happened to the medium. I never thought that she was playing 10-20-30 games a year and kept up with every little thing that happened in the field. I assumed that was why she needed monetary support and time to research these games. She had a general idea of why she disliked what had happened to the medium but needed to do the work to give her arguments support.

This is basically how I see it, as well. I know many people who fell out of regularly gaming a bit and even didn't consider themselves gamers for a while, but then the newest Pokemon came out or they picked up a 3DS and Animal Crossing and they're back on the wagon. It seems to me that the topic does interest her, and regardless of the quality of what she has to say about games, if she says she's a gamer again, I'm likely to believe her. People fall out of gaming and they come back to gaming, as games are awesome. It's not crazy. And even if she isn't a fan of many big games or what she thinks gaming has become, she's still fully capable of doing research and saying things about gaming.

I don't think she has offered much of value in her commentary, but I'd say the hubbub around her has led to some good developments. With that also unfortunately comes angry threads about anything she says or does, but whatever. You take the good with the bad in everything.

#40 Posted by Ben_H (3296 posts) -

@nilazz said:

I have nothing to say on this topic but that is AMAZING

#41 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11423 posts) -
@flappy said:

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck videogames in 2013.

I'll second that.

#42 Posted by Milkman (16486 posts) -

FAKE GAMER GIRLZZZZZZZZZZ

I don't care. It's literally impossible for me to care anymore. I don't have the willpower or the desire to give a shit.

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#43 Posted by Marokai (2792 posts) -

@milkman said:

FAKE GAMER GIRLZZZZZZZZZZ

I don't care. It's literally impossible for me to care anymore. I don't have the willpower or the desire to give a shit.

Oh my god, then stop posting in these threads. Why do people like you make posts like this? I've seen your posts elsewhere and you're a hell of a lot smarter than this, but you insist on shitposting constantly. If you don't like a topic, move on with your life.

#44 Posted by RonGalaxy (2847 posts) -

She's entitled to her opinion, no matter what the circumstances are. All I know is I enjoy video games, with or without their flaws I will still play them.

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#45 Edited by Milkman (16486 posts) -

@marokai: The topic said "how does this make you feel?" That's how it made me feel.

Also, the common consensus of this thread seems to be "I don't care" so I don't see why my post is being singled out.

ALSO, ALSO, the reason I no longer care is because I've done this exact same song and dance countless times already. You can only discuss something so many times before you just can't do it anymore. I've reached that point.

Online
#46 Posted by wjb (1626 posts) -

Is there a campaign I don't know about? Is the robot running against Anita for President of Video Games?

"Anita says she's into video games, but (image turns negative) in 2010, she said the exact opposite. Can you trust her with your children...to play video games?"

#48 Posted by tourgen (4427 posts) -

I think she saw an opportunity to take a pile of money from idiots and that's what she did. The thing about being conned - no one ever wants to admit they got taken.

#49 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3535 posts) -

@milkman said:

@marokai: The topic said "how does this make you feel?" That's how it made me feel.

You're completely correct. This was about the worst possible way to post a thread about this topic that I can imagine.

#50 Posted by Warfare (1632 posts) -

@milkman said:

@marokai: The topic said "how does this make you feel?" That's how it made me feel.

Also, the common consensus of this thread seems to be "I don't care" so I don't see why my post is being singled out.

ALSO, ALSO, the reason I no longer care is because I've done this exact same song and dance countless times already. You can only discuss something so many times before you just can't do it anymore. I've reached that point.

PUT THE GUN DOWN