How Five Fellow Players Are Helping Retain Your Legal Rights

@Tarsier said:

@crusader8463 said:

@MooseyMcMan said:

@crusader8463 said:

@Tarsier said:

Hey, we just noticed you selected Canada... We appreciate that you want to use our service but it's actually not required for Canadians to opt-out. Precedent has just been set (and acknowledged) that Sony & Origin's clauses will not hold up in court.Seidel v Telus was decided last week in favour of Seidel, in regards to an anti-class action clause.

owned, stupids

That's awesome. Must be why it gave me an error when I hit submit.

Canada: Always the forefront of justice and law.

Not if Harper gets his way...

oh shut up

No you.

I have both an Xbox and Steam. Crisis averted!

Well if anyone gets it to work let me know, I tried about 5 times and got nothin

good deal

Heh. So if you're too lazy to send it yourself you can go online and have it sent for you? What the fuck, people?

Whatever hipsters want to whine about this being completely useless, I like people who do some legwork to help other people out.

Any substantiation to those early rumours that Sony is closing PSN accounts of people who send letters?

@ericdrum said:

So what are some incidents that have happened in gaming history that people believe have been class action lawsuit worthy?

There was that time Sega made a game for a Nintendo platform.

@Peanut said:

The thing that's most depressing to me are the drones on both sides of the argument who keep on fighting with each other. You've either got tools who are following a fucking company line, telling everyone to bend over and take it, or tools lining up to give Klepek a handy, scared shitless that they've somehow given away the rights to their freedom by agreeing not to sue a consumer electronics company.

Anyone care to join me in the grey area here?

Show me the grey area.

@Donos said:

Whatever hipsters want to whine about this being completely useless, I like people who do some legwork to help other people out.

You've got it backwards, hipsters are the sort who would create and sign petitions like this.

> If you send in a letter, you retain your rights and the ability to continue playing Battlefield 3.

I'll believe it when I see it. Because I'm not going to send in a letter only to lose my $100+ worth of stuff on EA AND PSN's services.

@Oddsor: I'd really like to care about this, but the 50 bucks I spend 2 or 3 times a month is not enough money for me to put any effort into protecting myself as a consumer. I'd like to know tangible, real things that have happened or that could happen so that I might be motivated to protect myself as a consumer here. Otherwise, I'll just continue to let my money do my talking and not purchase games by companies that screw me over. That's my only point here. I know the party line is to always care about any rights being taken away, but I really have to draw the line somewhere.

@ericdrum said:

So what are some incidents that have happened in gaming history that people believe have been class action lawsuit worthy?

EA using SecuROM and the Hot Coffee mod for San Andreas are two class action lawsuits that come to mind.

meh

Does your legal system suck this badly? They haven't committed a crime. Not yet. But why would you ever waive your right to a fair trial? Think about it, it's exactly like agreeing to not press charges on the person who is about to rape you. You wouldn't agree to the sex, so why would you agree to not press charges? Seriously, when your information gets raped, you'll know what I'm talking about because you won't be able to do anything about it.

(HOW IS THIS ToS LEGAL?)

You know something bad or shifty can and may stem from one of these services, and agreeing to not do anything about it is literally like letting the man fuck you in the ass while he has his hands in your wallet. Also, in case you all didn't know. Origin = spyware. Because you agree to the ToS, you're giving them information about all your computer activities. See, I don't trust EA because their a bunch of fuckers.

It's funny even if you wanted to sue Sony you would not have the money or time much less win
 
The Joker
"You pays your monies you takes your chances"

I already mailed my letter along with a picture of my socks last week. 

@Donos said:

Whatever hipsters want to whine about this being completely useless, I like people who do some legwork to help other people out.

Don't think you understand what a hipster is mate.

It's really awesome to see people willing to take this sort of initiative and try and save us from our own laziness/apathy.

@Saltank: @Garrador: I had the same problem. Try clicking anywhere on the page after you fill everything in. It looks like it won't show up if any of the fields aren't confirmed, and they won't confirm if they have focus.

@patrickklepek said:

@Peanut said:

The thing that's most depressing to me are the drones on both sides of the argument who keep on fighting with each other. You've either got tools who are following a fucking company line, telling everyone to bend over and take it, or tools lining up to give Klepek a handy, scared shitless that they've somehow given away the rights to their freedom by agreeing not to sue a consumer electronics company.

Anyone care to join me in the grey area here?

Show me the grey area.

I suppose the grey area is the people who don't see this a a big issue. EULA and ToS agreements have been limiting consumers' legal options for years. This is not a new issue.

What's the average payment that an individual gets in a class action lawsuit? I doubt it is even equivalent to the cost of a new game.

@crusader8463 said:

@Tarsier said:

@crusader8463 said:

@MooseyMcMan said:

@crusader8463 said:

@Tarsier said:

Hey, we just noticed you selected Canada... We appreciate that you want to use our service but it's actually not required for Canadians to opt-out. Precedent has just been set (and acknowledged) that Sony & Origin's clauses will not hold up in court.Seidel v Telus was decided last week in favour of Seidel, in regards to an anti-class action clause.

owned, stupids

That's awesome. Must be why it gave me an error when I hit submit.

Canada: Always the forefront of justice and law.

Not if Harper gets his way...

oh shut up

No you.

c'mon guys. I think we can all agree that Harper is a douche that wants Canada to be a part of the U.S. that's all... What's so wrong about that? Really? I can't wait to be America's hat for real... Why do you think he's trying to get this pipeline from Alberta (his native province) to Texas? I don't wanna get all political in a VG comment, but c'mon. Alberta already makes a shit load of money because we export oil to the U.S. But if we just let them refine the oil, we won't have to. Canada will stay beautiful while America will stay ugly. We don't need jobs, just let the US have those jobs. cause they obviously need jobs. Obama only wants to pay $2 million per job instead of $3.6 million.

When would I sue a major corporation?

@MajorToms said:

.Origin = spyware. Because you agree to the ToS, you're giving them information about all your computer activities. See, I don't trust EA because their a bunch of fuckers.

Read the EULA for Steam. Or any MMO. Or the ToS/privacy policy on just about any website you have a membership to.

Fight the power!

@Rirse said:

Don't care, stop posting this crap, Patrick.

Please excuse Mr. Klepek for being one of the few people writing game news today that can actually be called a journalist. Patrick has done more for consumer awareness and rights in the past year than most sites can boast in their entire history.

So, thank you, Patrick. Keep posting this crap.

Also, I signed up to have letters sent to both EA and Sony. But I must admit I have already clicked through and agreed to it on my PSN account. Am I out of luck? If so, I understand and deserve it. But once again. Thank you Patrick for putting up stories like this instead of writing regurgitated PR dribble about "This Week's Featured Gun from (Mass Marketed Game.)"

@polyorpheus said:

I care. Keep posting stuff like this, Patrick.

agreed

More power to these guys, I already personally sent my letter, so I don't need to use their service, but I just may donate to help them out.

Why did you contact Microsoft? Shouldn't you have contacted EA?

I dont know if I have actually agreed to it yet. I havent signed in to my PS3 for a while

I feel I'm kinda taking a gamble here, Trusting you patrick, giving these dudes my info. Your reputation is now on the line, but I don't think it will be a problem. I trust you.

Now which email address did I link with my PSN account again? This is a fantastic thing though :)

I'm sure a class action law suit is still hard as shit to win. But I'm not really sure what a video game company can do to me to get me to sue them. So this all just seems pointless to me.

@Chemin said:

@MooseyMcMan said:

If I didn't have the ambition to send the letter myself, I'm not going to make these people do it for me.

Nice that they are though.

This.

Really people? Really? It's that hard to fill out an online form?

I appreciate what these folks at Gamers Opt Out are trying to do. However, when I went to their site to write up a digital form, it needed my full name, my address, and my email tied to the PSN account. I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but that's quite a bit of personal information I'm putting in a digital form. Granted I've done these for Paypal, Amazon, eBay, etc...

So, I think I'll just print Klepek's template and do it myself.

@Vrikk said:

@Chemin said:

@MooseyMcMan said:

If I didn't have the ambition to send the letter myself, I'm not going to make these people do it for me.

Nice that they are though.

This.

Really people? Really? It's that hard to fill out an online form?

I don't want to give them my information. For all I know they could really be those hackers just trying to get more info from us! Well, I know that's a bit of a stretch, but still!

Why would I sue either Sony or EA?

@Shakezula84 said:

Why would I sue either Sony or EA?

Wouldn't you like the option if they, I don't know, leak your credit card number and your credit rating gets ruined?

If you don't care, this is not for you. Likely for you, you don't have to be involved.

The thing that's most depressing to me are the drones on both sides of the argument who keep on fighting with each other. You've either got tools who are following a fucking company line, telling everyone to bend over and take it, or tools lining up to give Klepek a handy, scared shitless that they've somehow given away the rights to their freedom by agreeing not to sue a consumer electronics company.

Anyone care to join me in the grey area here?

That BF3 screenshot looks freaking awful. What the hell.

That's gonna be a bitch in postage. Pretty cool though. Maybe if Sony receives boxes and boxes of letters, they will get the hint.

@Vrikk: That's not the point. If I cared about the issue, I would've sent the letter myself already. You, I presume, only fight for your rights whenever it's easy accessed, or when someone else is doing it for you? That's just proof that the issue at hand really weren't that big of a deal, until you found a site that did the complaining for you.

Unless you just found out about the issue, then sure, I have no quarrel with you choosing the easy path. I just don't care, it's that simple. I won't take action just because there's an easier way to do it. I would call that a form of hypocrisy.

Wouldn't you have to opt-out all over again if Sony or EA updated the EULA?  Cool idea though, I wonder if they rethink the terms if they have to go through 10,000 letters.
 
@Chemin: 
It's a little different.  One person sending in a letter is almost pointless but a coordinated effort might have a use.

GiantBomb, you guys are awesome. Thank you for posting stuff relevant to gamers. I never would have known about this.

@Peanut said:

The thing that's most depressing to me are the drones on both sides of the argument who keep on fighting with each other. You've either got tools who are following a fucking company line, telling everyone to bend over and take it, or tools lining up to give Klepek a handy, scared shitless that they've somehow given away the rights to their freedom by agreeing not to sue a consumer electronics company.

Anyone care to join me in the grey area here?

@patrickklepek said:

@Peanut said:

The thing that's most depressing to me are the drones on both sides of the argument who keep on fighting with each other. You've either got tools who are following a fucking company line, telling everyone to bend over and take it, or tools lining up to give Klepek a handy, scared shitless that they've somehow given away the rights to their freedom by agreeing not to sue a consumer electronics company.

Anyone care to join me in the grey area here?

Show me the grey area.

He means this:-

@Shtinky said:

@Donos said:

Whatever hipsters want to whine about this being completely useless, I like people who do some legwork to help other people out.

You've got it backwards, hipsters are the sort who would create and sign petitions like this.

You've not got it all. This isn't a petition,

@Shakezula84: All the more reason why they shouldn't feel the need to make it harder for you to do so.

This does not apply worldwide. As pointed out in the Origin agreement, by legal precedent, Quebec, Russia, Switzerland and the Member States of the European Union users retain their rights.

Whew...

@umair56 said:

GiantBomb, you guys are awesome. Thank you for posting stuff relevant to gamers. I never would have known about this.

This.

I wonder if they've seen the South Park episode "HumanCentiPad" and got their idea to do this bullshit from that.

@ExplodeMode: Yes, that is true. I'm not saying that what these guys are doing is bad or pointless, I'm just saying that taking action against something you dislike (barely) only when it implies zero to no effort from your side, is a form of hypocrisy. From a philosophical standpoint that is. The consequences could in the end come out positive, thanks to all the hypocrites that signed up, but that's the danger of it also; when people not educated in the matter "sign petitions". Still, this conversation wasn't really what I intended with the post, I was just defending myself; that I didn't send the letter, or made them do it, because I just don't care about the issue. If I get screwed over in the future for it, fine, I'll reap what I sow. I just don't have the energy to educate myself in the matter, and that's proof that I don't care about it.

@Plan6 said:

@Shakezula84 said:

Why would I sue either Sony or EA?

Wouldn't you like the option if they, I don't know, leak your credit card number and your credit rating gets ruined?

If you don't care, this is not for you. Likely for you, you don't have to be involved.

Thank you. I don't know how many times I've posted that. Its like all the kids on the website have no idea how the world works. Your credit is everything.

Not to mention if they get your debit card and your credit card info then you have no money to pay your bills thus your credit is ruined too. Then when you try to sue Sony or whoever you have no money to pay the lawyer because Sony or whoever just lost it.

Edit: Also why all the Patrick hate? Just about all the article's he puts up get hated on. When every single one of them has something to do with games and is something most people are interested in. Just curious, Patrick is not my favorite GB personality but he does a good job and puts up some great articles.

Done, thanks