Jim Sterling explains why we are sexist

@video_game_king:

You are a doctor and a king? I don't believe you! Where is your birth certificate?!

Either I completly missed the point of the video or others did. Cause I never heard "If you don't talk about sexism you are an asshole". What I heard was "If you are reacting to sexism by saying "It was the victims fault cause...", "You just need to learn to deal with that and not talk about it publicly" or "That's only a small minority of people doing that, not a common problem at all" then you are at the very least extremly naive"

Weird

@thesoutherndandy: Freeman is talking about not bringing up that he is black but rather a person. He also does not want to talk about the past anymore, because we are not to blame anymore for our ancestors. Black history month is stupid because it victimizes the black race and with bringing this up all the time people will never forget and hate forever. The only place you should bring up these past events are in a history lesson and if you do it not in a special way but rather throughout these classes.

I am German for example and i am sick of it when someone tries to bind that with the past of my country. I had nothing to do with that and so I should not be blamed just like white people should not be blamed anymore for their ancestors doing terrible things with slavery and all that racism that happened. If people still do this then blame these people but not an entire race or gender.

In what way?

And this will somehow completely erase the systemic issues that race/gender/etc. created in the past?

Title of the thread is incorrect. I watched the video and that wasn't at all what the point was. Maybe the more correct title would have been "People who try to downplay the conversation concerning the treatment of women in video game communities are assholes" would be more correct, because that's kind of exactly what he said. I heard the term assholes mentioned, not that everyone is sexist, but I digress.

I think the point is a salient one. It is easy to fluff off the treatment of all kinds of people online as just being "the internet is at it again" but at the same time, that isn't a very awesome argument. It's kind of defeatist. It's admitting that there is an issue with a small minority of people, but that the people who are harmed should just ignore it or grow thicker skin. Guess what? That's not a solution. That's just allowing things to continue as they are. The fact that people get harassed online, and that harassment follows them into their real life in some cases, is ridiculous. Yes, I don't really know of any good solution to the problem, I just try to poke myself in once in a while and say my piece as a women who loves games and wants to talk to people who love games as well. I myself have pulled back from online communities that I know, from personal experience, are toxic. I tend to play online games that foster cooperation, not necessarily competition, mainly because I know that those situations lead to less outright asshole-ishness.

But wouldn't it be nice if I didn't have to police what I do and who I interface with online so regularly? And that I wouldn't have to try and explain what I must have done, or not done, to deserve the crappy treatment that I may receive to those who maybe hear about it after the fact? Of course, these are all hypotheticals, and the bad experiences that I've had certainly don't make me believe that there is a problem with everyone who plays games. That's silly. But I believe that there should be open discussion when people are harmed by the outliers on forums, especially if that behavior has reached beyond the internet and into the personal lives of those being targeted.

Wait, I have something for this!

And y'know what? That's a pretty shitty response to such a widespread issue. We shouldn't be trivializing issues like sexism and harassment. We should be trivializing people spreading hyperbole like Sterling. I've variously agreed and disagreed with his position in past controversies but the fact remains that part of his "thing" is to keep the controversy rolling for as long as possible.

Happy Decembertime, duders!

He tends to paint every issue in silhouettes mostly for the purpose of provocation, so he can then make a response to people who responded to his sweeping statements with similarly ignorant statements. Its how he operates. He's not reasonable. He's like a news personality, 'hey Im just reporting things'. Right but yer not, you're loading the discussion with the language you choose to use to describe large groups of people and then only acknowledging unreasonable responses to make your argument seem the reasonable one. That's his game. Even when his thesis statement makes sense its so loaded with clickbait and other bullshit meant only to illicit illwill, which will be all he responds to.

Like I said, people get needlessly defensive on the internet. People even get defensive and unreasonable when a game they like is getting criticized, which is why the comment sections on reviews are always such a shit show. They take every bit of criticism directed towards anything as a personal insult and lash out accordingly.

They often react by insulting the person doing the criticizing. Just read all the insults directed directly at Jim in this thread. Bloated toad, obnoxious, claiming all he's good for is click-baiting, etc. That doesn't happen with reasonable people.

@ramone:

1) Sexist/racist/generally shitty stuff going down on the internet and the subsequent reaction to such events breeds two behaviours that aren't really talked about that often.

I would disagree, it seems to me that these types of topics and discussions have been occurring quite frequently this whole year. This is one of a long series of videos Jim has done on such subjects.

2) Some people go out of their way to criticise the harassed person for not expecting to be treated like shit and for not having a thick skin. They also fail to criticise the harassers.

What are we supposed to do? That is my biggest problem, the whole video and crusade this thing keeps circling around involves a lot of showboating on the backs of minorities without any solution for taking any modicum of steps to resolve. It's easy to churn out videos with a feel good message of "lets stop sexism 2014 - Jim Sterling" but when it's time to stand up and substantiate low grade pandering with realistic ideas of how we can make the gaming community (that Jim is beginning to despise) better he is suddenly no where to be found on these topics.

3) Some other people come into the debate solely to say something like "Stop blaming gamers/gaming culture, this is only a small set of people etc." without adding anything useful to the debate or trying to help in any meaningful way.

So factually stating that it is a small subset of people making these attacks is... wrong? To wage a war and make changes that Jim and others want to see you have to accurately depict your enemy, it is not the entire gaming community. It IS a small set of people making these attacks, lumping innocent users into their camp before you start the bombing run is just pathetic.

4) Don't be either of those guys/gals. You're not responsible for the harassment, but in some small way you're responsible for helping to stop it.

I look forward to Jim's video next week where I am sure realistic steps will be presented to influence change.

After having actually watched the video, I only have this to say:

1. I agree with most of his points.
2. Yea, his tone right sucks.
3. I'm reminded why I stopped going to The Escapist in the first place.

@jadegl: That some especially competitive gaming communities are toxic is true for sure but that is not only against women but rather anyone. Also we should separate trash talking in games like shooters and real harassment. For example the easiest way to make a female player upset is to use sexist jokes like "Women should stay in the kitchen" or make me a sandwich" Just like you tell male players that they are fat and stupid. i think trash talking is totally fine in games that are 18 plus shooter or competitive online. However if you cross the line and for example call them in private and attack them outside games then we should include the real life police and try to find and "arrest" these people.

As for the ignoring matter. What do you do in Real life if someone does not like you? You are ignoring him. At least that is what i do. And with the internet you also have the freedom to ignore people. Again it would be different if you can just not ignore them because they are calling your place or try to mob you in a different way. Then it is time for the police to step in. Just like in real life.

The internet is a lawless place and we need to change that. People need to be made responsible for their actions.

@wolfgame I agree with you. As far as I'm concerned there are two solutions to these sorts of problems and both suck.

1. Accept that the anonymity of the internet leads to shitty people saying shitty things and stop giving them attention for it.

2. Lobby lawmakers to enact stricter laws on internet hate speech.

Both are terrible, either allow people to be assholes or go on a fruitless quest to silence them, an endeavor which would have terrible unintended consequences if ever fulfilled, and I doubt either will ever actually happen. I don't see the internet becoming any more regulated in my lifetime and as long as there are shitty people on the internet there will be people talking about those shitty people, which only makes them want to be shitty more.

@wolfgame: Okay dude. In my opinion I don't think there is anything wrong with telling people to take a bit more responsibility for the community they are a part of.

Also the people talking about not liking Jim's tone are clearly not familiar with the concept of sarcasm or being English.

There are ways of encouraging people to not be dicks on the internet without using laws or legislation.

It's possible he makes some good points but it's posted on the Escapist which I have learned to never ever go to for any reason.

@ramone: I honestly don't think there are. People have been dicks on the internet for over two decades and it's only gotten worse as social media has become more prevalent. Now you have people who aren't even hiding their identities being dicks. I mean, people are assholes in real life and there you have the risk of being confronted or punched in the face. The internet adds a layer of protection and anonymity.

Sexism is wrong in any case, being hateful is wrong in any case ,videogames don't have anything to do it, that girl just happened to get in the sights of assholes because she walked on common ground with them (As in they both played games on the internet). They should stop being assholes. That's really all there is to it.

Videogame players aren't a separate species, we're people, some people suck and treat others badly, they shouldn't. Stop acting like this only happens in fucking videogames. People are mistreated in relationships, at their jobs, in school, in sports, when they're young, when they're old, by their "friends", by their relatives, by their neighbors, by complete strangers. It's all wrong, it has happened all throughout time and will most likely happen for the rest of forever, we keep trying to fight it in the hopes that one day it will get better, i hope it does, but acting like people in general aren't assholes and only game players is bullshit, game players just happen to communicate on the internet often because we can't talk to people in person very well.

As long as this is framed as a problem amongst gamerz (A stupid word) i don't feel like its a legitimate debate. IF you want to talk about society as a whole, then we can talk. It's not even a subset of people in general, it's a huge portion of people who can be and are hateful.

Name just one.

@ramone: I'm not trying to pick your post apart, but I think what you have said is important.

Okay dude. In my opinion I don't think there is anything wrong with telling people to take a bit more responsibility for the community they are a part of.

Also the people talking about not liking Jim's tone are clearly not familiar with the concept of sarcasm or being English.

I am all for responsibility, it's important in all areas of life, but we are discussing a scenario right now in which Jim is suggesting that the entire gaming community should take responsibility for the actions of a select few. How is that responsible? If this were under any other circumstance the argument would be laughed away. If you want to fix any issue you fix it at its source, if there are effective means for discouraging this type of behavior from the users committing it I would love to hear it. It is disrespectful to the idea of sexism to take any injustice, and proceed to throw that issue on to innocent people that had nothing to do with it. That is the height of irresponsible behavior.

By choosing not to involve yourself with someone being a dick on the internet. Say you're playing an online game, and one of the players starts shouting homophobic slurs. If everyone else playing stopped and left the game (or booted the guy making the slurs if that is an option) it would soon send a message to that person their behaviour is unacceptable. Sure some people might keep doing it just for no good reason, and it's not going to change someone's attitude overnight, but making those kinds of people feel unwelcome will go a long way to changing the attitude of the online community.

Giving those kinds of people any sort of attention, whether positive or negative, isn't going to help anything because attention is all they're really after. They want an audience, and as long as people keep giving them one they'll keep doing what they're doing.

@darji: Maybe I wasn't clear enough but you're essentially agreeing with what I said. My point was more what he wasn't saying. What he wasn't saying is, if there's a current problem, don't discuss it. He's saying stop focusing on our differences. He's not saying that if a white supremacist group spray paints swastikas and the n word on a church, don't talk about race and it'll go away. That's nuts and that's why that clip has no bearing on this subject. Also to your point about not making sons pay for the sins of the fathers, I agree, but the issues are current, not in the past. What happened to Zoe is a current thing and shows there's a very real problem. You point out that there is a valid reason people are upset about the game, let's say for the sake of argument there is, that still doesn't justify harassment. It doesn't justify phoning her and masturbating over the phone. Nothing justifies any of that, I don't care how upset you are over a game. And that's the point Jim's making, saying that those people don't represent the entire community and should be ignored doesn't solve anything and it doesn't improve anything. You might have a different interpretation of what he's saying, that's fine, but that's what I got out of it.

No the entire gaming community is not sexist and the people that say that are wrong. But there is a problem and something needs to be done. I don't think posting 20 minute long videos about Princess Peach are doing anything useful but I sure as hell don't think ignoring people acting like scum is any more useful.

The only thing that would accomplish is to make that person search for other like minded individuals and help unite the assholes.

So again, name just one.

I'm just confused after his video about sucking off video game characters in public toilets, knowing Jim it could be him just being honest, grossing out privileged straight white males, painting queer people as sexual deviants or shoving his no-sexy-nowhere agenda down people's throats in a very subtle manner.

Or being English.

It's a loaded question because, even with laws and legislation, you're never going to get rid of online assholes completely. I mean, so many crimes have laws against them and they still happen. My method may not stop every last person who is an asshole on the internet, but imagine the young kid who thinks spouting racist, sexist, or homophobic slurs makes them seem more mature. Imagine how quickly they might learn if other people refused to play with them, and made it clear that kind of behaviour is unacceptable.

I'm siding with the moon man here. When it comes to real talk the guy knows whats up. To ignore a problem and act whatever is to make it seem normal and ok.

He truly is The Master Baiter.

It's not that hard to bait people when they jump onto your boat, start a fire, cut themselves up and throw themselves on said fire, before you've even bought the fishing line.

This thread and a lot of the comments in it are exactly what he's talking about.

I'm not quite sure whether to find that ironic or oddly appropriate. A lot of you do have a real influence on the environment around here, and until we take more responsibility for that fact, things won't improve. This isn't just about fighting the unrelenting hydra of Internet thoughtlessness. There are real, reasonably-sized areas where we can improve things. With our focus on our own little slice of the gaming community here on Giant Bomb, we can actually make a difference in making this a better and more inviting place for all kinds of gamers.

I can see both sides of this argument as valid points.

On one side, inactivity against something abhorrent does mean that...well, you aren't doing anything about the abhorrent thing. At the same time, does that mean that you are a bad person because you aren't fighting against the abhorrent thing?

Let's look at this by putting the idea into perspective:

If America decided to sit aside during World War II rather than being involved, would we be bad guys? Well, we lambasted many countries for NOT participating in stopping the Nazi regime.

If a neighborhood watch program doesn't exist, does that mean that crime is more rampant? No, not necessarily.

I don't know. Every scenario I can find that would say "inactivity = guilt" is based on a case-by-case ideal.

With this "inactivity against sexism is guilt of promoting sexism" argument, I can say that gaming journalism has done a lot to showcase the sexism that exists within video games. At the same time, I can also say that the gamers themselves are generally sexist, even if they don't realize that they are.

So in all honesty, I just don't think there's a winning scenario here. It's an industry full of sexism, but no one wants to stop the sexism en masse. It's a difficult scenario. I don't think Jim is COMPLETELY right, but I think that Jim makes good points.

Except the argument isn't "doing nothing makes you as bad as the sexist" it's "claiming sexism doesn't exist in the gaming community is as problematic as sexism in the gaming community".

While I agree with this 100% and wish it were true, America is hundreds of years away from such an idea. American's are obsessed with race.

Seems Sterling is calling out the victim blamers and those who bandy about terms like "white knight" when someone dares to call out the dickhead elements of our hobby. OP you're not helping with the smug, slanted thread title.

Oh, woe is you truthtellah to have to stand in this den of sin and wickedness. I'm sure glad we have saints like you to carry forth the light through these dark times. For you in your selflessness decided to take pity on us poor sinners, and for that you have our undying gratitude, for we are not worthy of your mercy!

In all seriousness, people like you do nothing to help the issue. You are simply shaming for the sake of shaming. I don't engage with this "gaming has a sexism problem!" debate because it acts like gaming is unique in this aspect. If you wanna talk about how we as a SOCIETY can have discussions about sexism, be my guest. Blaming gamers who don't engage in your holier-than-thou practices as being a part of the problem doesn't help anyone, and makes you look like an asshole. Instead of blaming video games for creating a "culture of sexism", why don't we just hold people who exhibit morally reprehensible behavior accountable for their actions. Everyone is always trying to find a scapegoat or an explanation. Here's my explanation: some people are just shitty people. They have no agenda other than to be shitty.

@jakob187: Unfortunately, jakob, I think you misunderstood, but I can understand that from the misleading OP. He is not being critical of gamers that just want to talk about mechanics and avoid these discussions; he is being critical of those who discourage others expressing concerns and blaming victims for the terrible responses they receive. As he said, even if you don't want to be part of making things better, the least you can do is not help make things worse.

So basically ignoring them while they they still exist and gather at special places like 4chan. So it is basically like it is now. What I learned from my parents is basically that if someone does not like you or insults you ignore them. The moment you pay attention to these people they have archived what they wanted to. However this again has a line that should be not crossed. And in these cases it ends with calling people at home or doing other stuff that would get you arrested in real life as well.

If someone wants to say sexist stuff in their free time there is no law preventing this. And there should not because you have the freedom to think. It is another thing to do what you want through. And you will and can never prevent what other people say as long it is not against the law. The choice you have to is to get involved in all this and "fight" against these people in a fight you can not win and which will give them attention or you just ignore them, let them make their jokes on their boards and special places while not giving them the attention these people want.

Come on, Barackbar. That isn't even what we're talking about. If you don't want to talk about this, then don't. I totally understand people just wanting to chat about mechanics and not wanting to wade into issues like this. That is its own thing, and people can avoid conversations if they want to. The issue is people that actively discourage concern and encourage the worse parts of the community. That is different from just abstaining from wading in; that's being an active, destructive participant.

You've been around here for a while, and you know things aren't perfect. Things can get worse and things can improve. This is a community we care about, right? So of course we'd want to see things better than otherwise. I believe in the many good folks of Giant Bomb, and I think even those currently encouraging the worst parts of the community can help make things better. It's okay to admit that things can improve. We're all duders together in this, and a lot of us who regularly post can do more to make this a better forum.

@truthtellah: I'm just getting tired of people trying to make me feel bad because I'm not constantly crusading against sexism in games 24/7. Its totally an important issue, and I do really care, but apparently to a lot of people if I'm not constantly doing something about it, I'm part of the problem and that's totally not fair to me. I do my part to make this a better forum by not engaging in that kind of stuff. I'd like to think that's enough.

@truthtellah: @stryker1121: I can understand you saying I was misleading, but I would disagree. The crux of his video is that the community should be judged by the company we keep, he believes our inaction is encouraging this type of behavior. Even if he isn't saying that the gaming community is sexist, he IS saying we are an accessory to that type of behavior.

I'd say you're doing alright if you're not making things worse. :) Fortunately, that's not what the video or my comments are about. Really, one of the easiest things you can do is just not be one of those folks who actively freaks out every time people get concerned about something. A lot of folks here, as shown by just this thread itself, get very angry and defensive any time anyone is concerned about anything, and they rather forcefully discourage voicing any concern about things that they aren't also concerned about.

People should be able to be bothered by things like perceived sexism or racism without having a curtain of commenters fall on them to shut up about it. Or, in Giant Bomb's case, these topics aren't actually brought up as often as complaints about the topics. More often than not, people post threads complaining about the fact that others might have something to complain about. We see them on an almost weekly basis.

A lot of people understandably don't want to talk about these things here, and abstaining from it isn't the worst thing in the world. We just have to make sure that when we don't want to talk about these things, we aren't just exerting our efforts into discouraging others from talking about these things. Personally, I am interested in talking about issues here and elsewhere, but if you aren't, that's okay. All I'd ask is that you not get angry when I might want to talk about it with someone else. The least we can do is not be part of making things worse or holding back those interested in making things better.

I hope that explains my thoughts on it, Barackbar.

I never want to come off as mean, but I'm always curious how certain people misinterpret others about these types of issues. Like, all the time.

Jim Sterling and others here say "we shouldn't dismiss these topics because they are important for us to overcome as a community," and certain people misconstrue it as "I must be a terrible person if I do not want to participate." No one is ever saying that. I can't imagine having that sort of thought process.

I read these threads all the time, but I do not participate in them much because I don't have time to think of well-thought out, 1000-word posts anymore. But one thing I noticed in every thread like this is how reactionary people are about these topics. We live in a world where people already have an opinion before they even read, if they even read.

@truthtellah: Yeah, I apologize for getting so upset about it. Its never been my intention to obstruct discussion about the issue, however all I ask is that people refrain from lumping people in with each other. I think we can all agree that being reductive about the problem doesn't help, but we also need to make sure we aren't confusing distance from the problem with apathy or endorsement. But you seem like you have that down already, so this is more a general statement. I'm sorry for my initial snark, I just get really defensive when I feel like people are calling me a sexist (which I sure as hell am not) and I know it wasn't intentional on your part.

If that's what you think he said, then you're right; you're not being misleading. You're simply misunderstanding. Which, well, I can certainly chalk up to Jim's particular way of conveying things that can give the wrong impression. In the video, he explicitly notes that if you want to talk about other things, that's fine. The real issue is those who actively discourage talking about this kind of thing or doing something. There's a difference between not doing anything and forcefully arguing that no one else should do anything.

He points out two particular ways in which people discourage others from expressing concern, and that's through arguing that it's only a problem with other people and a problem we can't do anything about. This is a problem that is not just in some dark corner; it's a real issue in the community in general. Regular gamers are a part of these problems just as much as the fringe, if not more so. And as far as whether anything can help, well, that's something that can be discussed. But people might as well try to improve things than just accept that nothing will ever change, right?

The big thing is just not actively discouraging people expressing concerns. That's different from just being a gamer who wants to chat about the ending of the latest game and not discuss people's concerns about sexism or whatever. You can avoid that kind of discussion if you want. The problem arises when you see discussion of such things and actively set out to demean or discourage it. That is what Jim describes as actively encouraging and enabling the behavior that people are concerned about.

So, let people express their concerns and discuss these things if they want, and if you don't want to wade in and instead discuss other things, you can do that. Just try not to actively discourage that concern or discussion, as that's what is so problematic.

I think I explained that alright. ha. I'm not sure I'd say Jim is always the clearest fellow, often trading nuance for bombast, but as far as the general point of his and many people here, that's what we're talking about.

about bloody time!

Not to be a jerk, but the reason you think this is a valid way to end oppression is because you aren't oppressed. You probably only think about discrimination when others talk about it, since you most likely don't experience it yourself. There is CONSTANT pain (rape, murder, suicide) caused from sexism, homophobia, transphobia, racism, etc. Ignoring that pain won't make it go away; acknowledging it so that people will realize it's unjust, and fighting against it, is how discrimination can decrease. The idea of looking beyond one's gender, ethnicity, orientation, etc. and seeing people for who they really are is a wonderful sentiment, but society is nowhere near that point yet.

It's understandable, duder. When I was younger, I was a bit more on that kind of defensive side, but as I got older, I realized that I was more bothered by the concerns of people than the problems with how they sometimes express those concerns. I can handle that some folks are a bit extreme or overzealous at times because I know this does personally impact people. Frankly, it impacts me and people I care about; so, I can understand getting worked up.

When I say we all can do better in the coming year, though, I mean that. All of us, regardless of whether we're concerned about things like sexism or think everything is a non-issue, can do a better job at all this, because at the moment, we're still pretty dysfunctional with it. Giant Bomb is an improvement over a lot of forums for discussing games, and I'd like to see it get even better. Hopefully we can make some progress on it in the year ahead. :)

You're not a jerk. You're right. But fighting problems is not easy, especially when the majority of mankind doesn't know how to fight it and just runs in blindly against social issues, only to make things worse. To make people truly change something with action, you need to educate them. And education is expensive and tough to lend, as is the case with having limited and flawed minds incapable of understanding concepts beyond established reasoning.

The majority of mankind, including I, is uneducated and thus we can't face issues like this until we fully understand the issue, it's causes, and how to truly solve it. That's next to impossible, which is why I think not talking about race and inserting the concept into the minds of others is a viable solution, even if it's not going to save some person getting lynched because of his/her gender or skin color.

@tru3_blu3: I do not think we need to educate people but rather teach them how to think on their own instead of following any belief or Agenda blindly. The tone of "educate them" for me is like telling them what they have to think and tell them what to think is right and I really do not like this at all.

@darji: I see why you would say that but I think it's also wrong to also attribute to Black History to remind people of the hateful aspects but rather it is there to celebrate how far people have come since that time (though there is still more room for improvement but its heck of a lot better now than compared to back then) and at the same time to also not take for granted the sacrifices people have made. By thinking of the negative aspects of it just defeats the purpose of why it exists in the first place. The only ones in the US who would keep focusing on the negative aspects of that time are usually the types who are pretty irrational and more often than not also paranoid.