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#51 Posted by EXTomar (4718 posts) -

Sharing vital data like that with a vendor is one thing. Having that vendor share that data with god knows who else is something else. I don't mind telling Microsoft these pieces of information when I have to deal with Microsoft services and purchases but I am extremely wary on the reason why they need to share this information with any third party that asks.

Or in other words: If EA, Pepsi Co., Chrysler, whatever wants that information come ask me instead of buying it from Microsoft thank you very much.

#52 Posted by spraynardtatum (2923 posts) -
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#53 Posted by devilzrule27 (1239 posts) -

Better stop gaming! Sony, Microsoft, Steam, every freaking publisher all collect your personal data and then offer up a vague explanation of what they do with it. It's a sad unfortunate fact.

#54 Edited by EXTomar (4718 posts) -

Steam knows that information but only for the purchasing of games and sundry that go with it. You'd have a point if Pepsi could just buy that information from Steam but I am pretty sure they don't work that way. I could be wrong and please correct me if I am but I am pretty sure that the subscriber agreement even specifically says they do not share that information alone with a counter clause "We are not responsible if you share information in a game".

The grey area are apps themselves. For some apps to function they need vital information but I would rather have it confirmed in app or reentered instead of automatically given just because money changed hands with them.

#55 Posted by spraynardtatum (2923 posts) -

@jdh5153 said:

@spraynardtatum:

Mark Zuckerberg was a normal person and he made millions on it.

Mark Zuckerberg is also one of the richest people on the planet. I don't think he's a good example of a normal person. I'm not familiar if Facebook started selling customers metadata right off the bat or if they started doing that later. Do you know?

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#56 Posted by tourgen (4493 posts) -

@thehbk: not all of us are idiots. Im using a nokia N9. No EULA, full WebKit browser, full shell access and an awesome & free dev environment with Qt 4.8 on my PC. I can upload new apps to the phone over wifi. So no, you are wrong. There are great alternatives to sacrificing your privacy.

#57 Edited by jdh5153 (1034 posts) -

@spraynardtatum:

You do realize he wasn't rich before Facebook? Therefore he's the perfect example of a normal person doing it.

#58 Posted by JJOR64 (18988 posts) -

BEST SYSTEM

#59 Posted by Humanity (9193 posts) -

Whatever.

#60 Posted by spraynardtatum (2923 posts) -

@jdh5153: Was he making money off of metadata before Facebook? That's kind of my point.

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#61 Edited by CaLe (3981 posts) -

What's to be paranoid about exactly? My postman knows where I live and he looks like he could take down a bear by himself. I'm not afraid of Microsoft sharing my secrets. If you had my postman you wouldn't be either.

#62 Posted by Itwongo (1193 posts) -
#63 Edited by spraynardtatum (2923 posts) -

@itwongo said:

@spraynardtatum: No, but what difference does it make?

I was saying that a normal person can't make money off of metadata and jdh5153 used Zuckerberg as an example. I wouldn't consider him to be a normal person after he created Facebook. An average joe like you or I can do nothing with our personal data but these companies can sell it and make obscene amounts of money.

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#64 Edited by HatKing (5941 posts) -

Like, at this point, as long as they're not coming to my place and shitting on my coffee table, I'm pretty happy. My information is worthless. Their 'partners' probably already have it. If not, it's probably not too hard to find.

#65 Posted by spraynardtatum (2923 posts) -

@hatking: Your information is not worthless. These companies make bank off of it.

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#66 Posted by BradBrains (951 posts) -

pretty sure this just means using the information for when your using applications on your consoles.

#67 Edited by HatKing (5941 posts) -

@spraynardtatum said:

@hatking: Your information is not worthless. These companies make bank off of it.

Companies like Microsoft are making bank off of thousands of people's information by selling to companies with the hopes that a small percentage of that information will result in sales. My information is worthless because, I largely ignore ads and it is easily available elsewhere for free. Like, a phone book. Or, Google. Or, Facebook. Or, you know, fucking ask me. I don't care. Being advertised at is literally of no concern to me. If it gets annoying, I ignore it. If it's too hard to ignore, I turn on Adblock.

#68 Posted by ottoman673 (513 posts) -

Cool, bring it on.

I largely ignore their ads anyway, so if they want to 'target' ads at me using that information, they can go right ahead and waste their time. I couldn't give two shits less.

#69 Edited by TheHBK (5482 posts) -

@tourgen said:

@thehbk: not all of us are idiots. Im using a nokia N9. No EULA, full WebKit browser, full shell access and an awesome & free dev environment with Qt 4.8 on my PC. I can upload new apps to the phone over wifi. So no, you are wrong. There are great alternatives to sacrificing your privacy.

Yes, you are. Consider that while carrying around that phone, the phone company and by proxy the government knows where you are. And since you are such a privacy advocate, I suppose you don't use Steam and won't be getting either console since as someone already pointed out, Sony's terms are about the same. Or you don't use any single google service either? Please tell me all you use are books and talk to people face to face at all times. to think that you have complete privacy while using SOMEONE ELSE's products is beyond ignorant.

#70 Posted by HatKing (5941 posts) -

@spraynardtatum: I mean, don't get me wrong. It's probably shitty that this is a thing. And, obviously, it'd be better if it weren't. To the people willing to go through the avenues that prevent stuff like this, more power to them. I'm just at a point in my life where I haven't the patience for things like that. I'd rather just give my money to somebody or something and have it function. Then I can spend my free time enjoying whatever. I think that mindset directly links to the whole not wanting to put in extra effort to avoid this shit. It's just way easier for me to ignore the ads, or whatever comes of this.

#71 Edited by spraynardtatum (2923 posts) -

@hatking: Think about all the trends they can find and predict with that amount of information. They can basically know how to win the game before it even starts. It's worth more than just individual sales from you or me. Whether you actually buy a product from the company that is buying your information is no longer a concern. The fact that they can know that you won't be interested is worth something too.

I'm not saying these kinds of practices need to be eliminated. That's unrealistic and not forward thinking.

I don't think Microsoft or whomever else you can name should be in charge of it. I want to control it. If people are profiting off of my data than I should be compensated.

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#72 Posted by Deranged (1837 posts) -

@jdh5153 said:

@bigjeffrey:

Yeah this had been going on forever. Google and Apple do it on your phones to.

Take off the tin foil hats people.

#73 Edited by rachelepithet (1391 posts) -

@nekroskop: Smokedogg420, 6969 Penetration Ave. Kansas City Texas, born 04/20/1969, Melindagatessmellycooch@yahoo.com

Settled

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#74 Edited by Rick_Fingers (524 posts) -

You've all agreed to this same thing already several times over

#75 Posted by RockyRaccoon37 (450 posts) -

@jdh5153 said:

@spraynardtatum:

Mark Zuckerberg was a normal person and he made millions on it.

THE AMERICAN DREAM IS STILL ALIVE GUYS

#76 Edited by Itwongo (1193 posts) -

@spraynardtatum: You are being compensated. You are getting the service you gave them your data for, be it Xbox Live, Facebook, Google, etc.

That's how you make money off this stuff. Provide a service that people want in exchange for personal data, then sell the data. It's exactly what Zuckerberg did from his college dorm room a decade ago.

#77 Edited by EXTomar (4718 posts) -

Side note: Apple and Google have taken heat on this topic to the point they have started to put polices and software in place in response to this.

Why should Microsoft not take the same criticism for trying to do the same thing? Why shouldn't Microsoft be subject to the same international scrutiny to force them to change? Are they special?

#78 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

It looks like they are only sharing data with people you agree to share data with.

Kinda seems like it gives Microsoft permission to verify your personal data with the personal data you've already shared with HBO, Netflix, ESPN, Last.fm and other services to prevent fraud. Microsoft is not giving away your information to its partners

Then again I dontreally care

#79 Posted by Itwongo (1193 posts) -

@extomar: Because, I, personally, never gave Apple or Google heat. Therefore I won't give Microsoft heat.

#80 Posted by thatdutchguy (1273 posts) -

@jdh5153 said:

@spraynardtatum:

Mark Zuckerberg was a normal person and he made millions on it.

THE AMERICAN DREAM IS STILL ALIVE GUYS

"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."

#81 Posted by spraynardtatum (2923 posts) -

@itwongo said:

@spraynardtatum: You are being compensated. You are getting the service you gave them your data for, be it Xbox Live, Facebook, Google, etc.

That's how you make money off this stuff. Provide a service that people want in exchange for personal data, then sell the data. It's exactly what Zuckerberg did from his college dorm room a decade agom

I don't buy that. I don't think it's enough. Especially with paid services like XBL. Also Facebook and Google sell phones and apps and tablets and have tons of other sources of revenue. They wouldn't go out of business if they included us in the earnings. Didn't Facebook make 1.82 billion dollars Q2? Google made 14.2 billion dollars last quarter. Microsoft made 19 billion. These companies are beyond profitable. They're not doing us any favors.

I'm not being compensated by simply using the product that they've created. That's ridiculous.

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#82 Posted by Kidavenger (3545 posts) -

@jdh5153 said:

Big deal, no one cares, everything on the internet already does this

Bull fucking shit everyone does this; everyone asks if they can do it, it's always optional; if Microsoft is really making this mandatory, it's a huge problem.

#83 Edited by GaspoweR (3018 posts) -

I think this has a lot to do with the integration with Xbox Live that the new apps on the XBOne are going to have. Kinda the same thing that they're doing with Windows 8 apps. Single sign-on is fantastic, but all parties involved have to have the same information. Instead of just your Facebook account, you'll be able to integrate your Xbox Live account with ESPN, Twitch, etc. And guess what, you can probably sign into your account on those services/sites with your xbox live account, similar to how you do with Facebook and say, ESPN.com or twitter when you link accounts. The birthdate is probably for age verification purposes (can't access any M-rated/R-rated content on child accounts, online service blackouts (ESPN regions), etc.)

It sounds similar to what facebook, etc. already do. I'm not worried about it. I think it's BS personally, but as an IT admin, I see where they're coming from when thinking about security.

Thanks for the input sir! Glad I read your post since it does clarify a lot of stuff.

#84 Posted by spraynardtatum (2923 posts) -

@thatdutchguy: George Carlin had his finger on the pulse until the day he died. I love that guy.

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#85 Posted by tourgen (4493 posts) -

@thehbk said:

@tourgen said:

@thehbk: not all of us are idiots. Im using a nokia N9. No EULA, full WebKit browser, full shell access and an awesome & free dev environment with Qt 4.8 on my PC. I can upload new apps to the phone over wifi. So no, you are wrong. There are great alternatives to sacrificing your privacy.

Yes, you are. Consider that while carrying around that phone, the phone company and by proxy the government knows where you are. And since you are such a privacy advocate, I suppose you don't use Steam and won't be getting either console since as someone already pointed out, Sony's terms are about the same. Or you don't use any single google service either? Please tell me all you use are books and talk to people face to face at all times. to think that you have complete privacy while using SOMEONE ELSE's products is beyond ignorant.

you know you lost an argument when you can't argue my point and instead invent a position I didn't take to argue against. I never said complete privacy. I put forward and alternative to signing a EULA to use a smartphone. There is an alternative so saying there is not is dishonest/ignorant.

#86 Posted by jakob187 (21670 posts) -

Insert fake information. Problem solved.

#88 Posted by _Zombie_ (1462 posts) -

Good thing I haven't had XBL since last year.

@jdh5153 said:

Big deal, no one cares, everything on the internet already does this

I think it's kind of bullshit

It's bullshit, but unsurprising bullshit that's been going on for years.

#89 Posted by Manhattan_Project (2154 posts) -

@_zombie_ said:

Good thing I haven't had XBL since last year.

@spraynardtatum said:

@jdh5153 said:

Big deal, no one cares, everything on the internet already does this

I think it's kind of bullshit

It's bullshit, but unsurprising bullshit that's been going on for years.

I hope you dont use almost literally anything else.

#90 Posted by _Zombie_ (1462 posts) -

@_zombie_ said:

Good thing I haven't had XBL since last year.

@spraynardtatum said:

@jdh5153 said:

Big deal, no one cares, everything on the internet already does this

I think it's kind of bullshit

It's bullshit, but unsurprising bullshit that's been going on for years.

I hope you dont use almost literally anything else.

Why? This doesn't bother me that much.

#91 Edited by BRich (436 posts) -

Wow now Microsoft is responsible for creating the same TOS used by every company since the dawn of the internet?

Yes, if you download and use the ESPN app, ESPN will be given your information. Caution: Coffee is hot

#92 Edited by spraynardtatum (2923 posts) -

Everyone that says that these TOS where they require you to let Microsoft/whoever do whatever they want with your information because other companies do the same thing are ignoring the heart of the problem. It's a straw man argument.

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#93 Edited by PulledaBrad (612 posts) -

This sucks but I've probably clicked "I agree" on something that says something similar to this already and I don't get boatloads of ads and spam in my inbox.

I GOT THESE HOT DICK PILLS SON!

#94 Edited by TheManWithNoPlan (5475 posts) -

Hmm, it doesn't bother me too much.

#95 Posted by CynicalBuzzard (240 posts) -

I am glad that I do not own a Microsoft console.

#96 Posted by tourgen (4493 posts) -

Actually I was responding to your comments about smartphones and TOS & the Chrome browser. I was pointing out that it's not true. We did not all sign away our privacy and control in a EULA or TOS. There are options and some of us decided it wasn't worth it. The same goes for new consoles. You don't have to agree to the EULA. There are options - go PC this generation, or don't use their online service. Or have someone else click thru and "sign" the EULA and give them fake info an pre-paid cards. Screw them, you aren't signing a real contract.

And come on, naming calling now? There's no reason for that. Right from the strawman to personal attacks. You're not very good at this.

@thehbk said:

Well you ignore that we were talking about consoles anyway. So your ignorance deserves my pity and I weep for you boy.

@tourgen said:

@thehbk said:

@tourgen said:

@thehbk: not all of us are idiots. Im using a nokia N9. No EULA, full WebKit browser, full shell access and an awesome & free dev environment with Qt 4.8 on my PC. I can upload new apps to the phone over wifi. So no, you are wrong. There are great alternatives to sacrificing your privacy.

Yes, you are. Consider that while carrying around that phone, the phone company and by proxy the government knows where you are. And since you are such a privacy advocate, I suppose you don't use Steam and won't be getting either console since as someone already pointed out, Sony's terms are about the same. Or you don't use any single google service either? Please tell me all you use are books and talk to people face to face at all times. to think that you have complete privacy while using SOMEONE ELSE's products is beyond ignorant.

you know you lost an argument when you can't argue my point and instead invent a position I didn't take to argue against. I never said complete privacy. I put forward and alternative to signing a EULA to use a smartphone. There is an alternative so saying there is not is dishonest/ignorant.

#97 Posted by Hunter5024 (5667 posts) -

There are a lot of online services that believe my name is Dick Johnson and I was born in 1969.