New XBL terms of service. MS does it again...

Sharing vital data like that with a vendor is one thing. Having that vendor share that data with god knows who else is something else. I don't mind telling Microsoft these pieces of information when I have to deal with Microsoft services and purchases but I am extremely wary on the reason why they need to share this information with any third party that asks.

Or in other words: If EA, Pepsi Co., Chrysler, whatever wants that information come ask me instead of buying it from Microsoft thank you very much.

@extomar: Exactly

Better stop gaming! Sony, Microsoft, Steam, every freaking publisher all collect your personal data and then offer up a vague explanation of what they do with it. It's a sad unfortunate fact.

Steam knows that information but only for the purchasing of games and sundry that go with it. You'd have a point if Pepsi could just buy that information from Steam but I am pretty sure they don't work that way. I could be wrong and please correct me if I am but I am pretty sure that the subscriber agreement even specifically says they do not share that information alone with a counter clause "We are not responsible if you share information in a game".

The grey area are apps themselves. For some apps to function they need vital information but I would rather have it confirmed in app or reentered instead of automatically given just because money changed hands with them.

Mark Zuckerberg is also one of the richest people on the planet. I don't think he's a good example of a normal person. I'm not familiar if Facebook started selling customers metadata right off the bat or if they started doing that later. Do you know?

@thehbk: not all of us are idiots. Im using a nokia N9. No EULA, full WebKit browser, full shell access and an awesome & free dev environment with Qt 4.8 on my PC. I can upload new apps to the phone over wifi. So no, you are wrong. There are great alternatives to sacrificing your privacy.

@spraynardtatum:

You do realize he wasn't rich before Facebook? Therefore he's the perfect example of a normal person doing it.

BEST SYSTEM

Whatever.

@jdh5153: Was he making money off of metadata before Facebook? That's kind of my point.

What's to be paranoid about exactly? My postman knows where I live and he looks like he could take down a bear by himself. I'm not afraid of Microsoft sharing my secrets. If you had my postman you wouldn't be either.

@spraynardtatum: No, but what difference does it make?

I was saying that a normal person can't make money off of metadata and jdh5153 used Zuckerberg as an example. I wouldn't consider him to be a normal person after he created Facebook. An average joe like you or I can do nothing with our personal data but these companies can sell it and make obscene amounts of money.

Like, at this point, as long as they're not coming to my place and shitting on my coffee table, I'm pretty happy. My information is worthless. Their 'partners' probably already have it. If not, it's probably not too hard to find.

@hatking: Your information is not worthless. These companies make bank off of it.

pretty sure this just means using the information for when your using applications on your consoles.

Companies like Microsoft are making bank off of thousands of people's information by selling to companies with the hopes that a small percentage of that information will result in sales. My information is worthless because, I largely ignore ads and it is easily available elsewhere for free. Like, a phone book. Or, Google. Or, Facebook. Or, you know, fucking ask me. I don't care. Being advertised at is literally of no concern to me. If it gets annoying, I ignore it. If it's too hard to ignore, I turn on Adblock.

Cool, bring it on.

I largely ignore their ads anyway, so if they want to 'target' ads at me using that information, they can go right ahead and waste their time. I couldn't give two shits less.

@tourgen said:

Yes, you are. Consider that while carrying around that phone, the phone company and by proxy the government knows where you are. And since you are such a privacy advocate, I suppose you don't use Steam and won't be getting either console since as someone already pointed out, Sony's terms are about the same. Or you don't use any single google service either? Please tell me all you use are books and talk to people face to face at all times. to think that you have complete privacy while using SOMEONE ELSE's products is beyond ignorant.

@spraynardtatum: I mean, don't get me wrong. It's probably shitty that this is a thing. And, obviously, it'd be better if it weren't. To the people willing to go through the avenues that prevent stuff like this, more power to them. I'm just at a point in my life where I haven't the patience for things like that. I'd rather just give my money to somebody or something and have it function. Then I can spend my free time enjoying whatever. I think that mindset directly links to the whole not wanting to put in extra effort to avoid this shit. It's just way easier for me to ignore the ads, or whatever comes of this.

@hatking: Think about all the trends they can find and predict with that amount of information. They can basically know how to win the game before it even starts. It's worth more than just individual sales from you or me. Whether you actually buy a product from the company that is buying your information is no longer a concern. The fact that they can know that you won't be interested is worth something too.

I'm not saying these kinds of practices need to be eliminated. That's unrealistic and not forward thinking.

I don't think Microsoft or whomever else you can name should be in charge of it. I want to control it. If people are profiting off of my data than I should be compensated.

@nekroskop: Smokedogg420, 6969 Penetration Ave. Kansas City Texas, born 04/20/1969, Melindagatessmellycooch@yahoo.com

Settled

You've all agreed to this same thing already several times over

THE AMERICAN DREAM IS STILL ALIVE GUYS

@spraynardtatum: You are being compensated. You are getting the service you gave them your data for, be it Xbox Live, Facebook, Google, etc.

That's how you make money off this stuff. Provide a service that people want in exchange for personal data, then sell the data. It's exactly what Zuckerberg did from his college dorm room a decade ago.

Side note: Apple and Google have taken heat on this topic to the point they have started to put polices and software in place in response to this.

Why should Microsoft not take the same criticism for trying to do the same thing? Why shouldn't Microsoft be subject to the same international scrutiny to force them to change? Are they special?

It looks like they are only sharing data with people you agree to share data with.

Kinda seems like it gives Microsoft permission to verify your personal data with the personal data you've already shared with HBO, Netflix, ESPN, Last.fm and other services to prevent fraud. Microsoft is not giving away your information to its partners

Then again I dontreally care

@extomar: Because, I, personally, never gave Apple or Google heat. Therefore I won't give Microsoft heat.

"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."

I don't buy that. I don't think it's enough. Especially with paid services like XBL. Also Facebook and Google sell phones and apps and tablets and have tons of other sources of revenue. They wouldn't go out of business if they included us in the earnings. Didn't Facebook make 1.82 billion dollars Q2? Google made 14.2 billion dollars last quarter. Microsoft made 19 billion. These companies are beyond profitable. They're not doing us any favors.

I'm not being compensated by simply using the product that they've created. That's ridiculous.

Bull fucking shit everyone does this; everyone asks if they can do it, it's always optional; if Microsoft is really making this mandatory, it's a huge problem.

Thanks for the input sir! Glad I read your post since it does clarify a lot of stuff.

@thatdutchguy: George Carlin had his finger on the pulse until the day he died. I love that guy.

you know you lost an argument when you can't argue my point and instead invent a position I didn't take to argue against. I never said complete privacy. I put forward and alternative to signing a EULA to use a smartphone. There is an alternative so saying there is not is dishonest/ignorant.

Insert fake information. Problem solved.

Good thing I haven't had XBL since last year.

It's bullshit, but unsurprising bullshit that's been going on for years.

I hope you dont use almost literally anything else.

Why? This doesn't bother me that much.

Wow now Microsoft is responsible for creating the same TOS used by every company since the dawn of the internet?

Yes, if you download and use the ESPN app, ESPN will be given your information. Caution: Coffee is hot

Everyone that says that these TOS where they require you to let Microsoft/whoever do whatever they want with your information because other companies do the same thing are ignoring the heart of the problem. It's a straw man argument.

I GOT THESE HOT DICK PILLS SON!

Hmm, it doesn't bother me too much.

I am glad that I do not own a Microsoft console.

Actually I was responding to your comments about smartphones and TOS & the Chrome browser. I was pointing out that it's not true. We did not all sign away our privacy and control in a EULA or TOS. There are options and some of us decided it wasn't worth it. The same goes for new consoles. You don't have to agree to the EULA. There are options - go PC this generation, or don't use their online service. Or have someone else click thru and "sign" the EULA and give them fake info an pre-paid cards. Screw them, you aren't signing a real contract.

And come on, naming calling now? There's no reason for that. Right from the strawman to personal attacks. You're not very good at this.

There are a lot of online services that believe my name is Dick Johnson and I was born in 1969.