Reduction in High quality video setting

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MattOnTheSite

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#1  Edited By MattOnTheSite

Is it just me, or does it look like the current High setting in the video player has been reduced to the quality of the old Medium setting?
With the new HD versions available it seems that they simply renamed Medium to be called High. This is definitely a downgrade for non-subscribing users who can't access the same quality of video they previously could.
Am I imagining this? Does it seem like this is the case to anyone else?

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huntad

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#2  Edited By huntad

I thought I was just seeing things. Even so, I'm not gonna jump to conclusions until I hear about this from others. I still find the videos to be perfectly watchable.

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MrOldboy

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#3  Edited By MrOldboy

 I cant really tell the difference yet between HD and High. Is this just me? I seems like it takes a few extra seconds to buffer the video on HD, but I still cant read the text in Ship Simulator: Extremes and am getting some compression artifacting. The videos Dave posted earlier as tests were way better.   
 
It may be 720p but they dont look that clean to me compared to other gameplay of games at 720p I've seen. Again, is it just me?

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#4  Edited By JJWeatherman

I don't see why they'd choose to reduce the quality. Your probably just imagining it.At least I hope you are.

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Feanor

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#5  Edited By Feanor

I was about to say that you are full of shit, but then I looked at a few vids myself. And yes they do look crappier now. I don't know if it is being done purposely or not. 
 
One of my reasons for not subing was that I was perfectly fine with the quality of their videos. I'll be kind of pissed if they downgraded their default quality to try and get people to sub.

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#6  Edited By tsolless
@MrOldboy said:
"  I cant really tell the difference yet between HD and High. Is this just me? I seems like it takes a few extra seconds to buffer the video on HD, but I still cant read the text in Ship Simulator: Extremes and am getting some compression artifacting. The videos Dave posted earlier as tests were way better.    It may be 720p but they dont look that clean to me compared to other gameplay of games at 720p I've seen. Again, is it just me? "
Does the window get any larger when you choose the HD option? Does fullsizing the screen result in a noticeable difference between High and HD?
 
If not, my guess is that not all the videos with the HD option really have the HD video available yet.
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#7  Edited By Dany

Its is still has 1500 bit rate

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MrOldboy

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#8  Edited By MrOldboy

well I am downloading both versions of the wargames tang. one posted on daves blog and the other from the download option on the video page. 
 
already the files are different sizes 
 
video page: 121MB filename:   vf_wutang_wargames_072310_3500
Daves blog: 177MB   http://media.giantbomb.com/test_encoding/test_wargamessp_3500.mp4
 
And daves video looks WAY better IMO. Are not all the videos in HD yet or what?  
 
well the HD video has a larger filesize  High is 51mb and low is 41 for the wargames tang. 
 
edit: they have to be working on the videos or something. The HD version must be the high version or something. the file from dave's blog is 1280x720 but the one from the video page is 640x360. They must not have it updated 
 
The mailbag from today looks 720p, although maybe its the camera, the compression is bad. But it looks to be 1280x720. But the HD videos I've watched so far are not 720p. The trailers are crisp HD though. Quicklooks dont look so good.

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vaiz

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#9  Edited By vaiz

Could be something to do with the new compression and all that.

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#10  Edited By fogh

I downloaded the latest Game Room quick look in HD earlier, but it was in 640x360. Hope they get it fixed soon. I'm demanding it 'cos I payed for it.

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alistercat

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#11  Edited By alistercat
@MrOldboy:  Almost none of the videos are in HD yet. Only the new mailbags, the wii party trailer and the rockband 3 keyboard trailer are in HD. The ones there at the moment are just placeholder.
 @MattC:  Also, if I am not mistaken they are MP4s now not FLVs so the different format might be a reason for different quality. Not anything malicious which seems to be the vibe of this thread.
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Green_Incarnate

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#12  Edited By Green_Incarnate

Most of the videos are the same quality. The only ones I noticed that were in HD were the new mailbag videos.

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#13  Edited By MrOldboy
@Green_Incarnate: yeah but does that camera compress like hell or what? 
 
I'm not saying malicious, I just want to know whats HD or not and when HD is coming. Just trying to see whats up as I the subscription just launched. I like that they are MP4s.  
 
Just annoying since the videos Dave posted look fantastic, I was looking forward to that. I wont say false advertising, but I was convinced it would look that good by thursday. At least the last month or so.
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#14  Edited By alistercat
@MrOldboy:  Those mailbags, and various other videos are recorded using flip cams. They are HD, but the quality isn't great they just have high resolution plus they do compress footage to hell. I've shot some films on them, and it looks about the same quality.
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#15  Edited By MrOldboy
@AlisterCat: yeah they are 1280x720 but I guess I expect no compression as well when someone calls it HD. Anyways the trailers and dave's videos look great so hoping the backlog will look that good too.
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Green_Incarnate

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#16  Edited By Green_Incarnate
@MrOldboy: The videos are similar in quality to this and this.
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#17  Edited By tsolless

Video conversion and uploading large files to the site will take a lot of work and a lot of time.

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#18  Edited By MrOldboy
@tsolless: Yes it does, but they expected 5000 subscribers in 1 day so I dont feel out of line saying some more content should be HD.
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#19  Edited By alistercat
@MrOldboy: HD is just a resolution, plus have you ever had uncompressed video on your hard drive? It's crazy big. I'm sure the source files on the giant bomb hard drives are as uncompressed as they can get for quality reasons but it's got to be compressed to hell for the web. I'm sure the old stuff will look great but non-HD console footage won't look that great in HD, just look at the Wii trailer. The bit with the people looks good but the game footage is 480 so it's being upscaled.
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#20  Edited By Feanor
@AlisterCat: Well I'm sure they have been working on this for a while now. At least I hope, their has been a lack of content recently, and people always blamed these upgrades for it. 
 
@MrOldboy: Yeah it would only be right to have all of these features in place, when you try to get 250 grand out of the community in one day.
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#21  Edited By MrOldboy
@AlisterCat: I guess so, I guess I dont mean uncompressed. I have ripped blurays and they are insanely big. I got flac on a tech forum when I asked the best way to downscale them to 720p. "ahhh whats the point of ripping blurays, arghhh!" Like I have a data server in my bedroom. So I get it, but I am paying a fee now so I expect higher quality, not just MP4s.
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#22  Edited By tsolless

They discussed on the Membership Bombcast that the HD videos wouldn't be immediately available.

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#23  Edited By alistercat
@MrOldboy:  You are getting what they said. HD. HD is a resolution, not a measure of quality. Now for the flipcam vids they can't control the quality much. The camera does it for them. But the professionally shot stuff, the quicklooks are decided on the final export after editing so they have much greater control. So I expect that stuff to be good quality. The placeholders aren't ideal but it's going to take forever for them to re-render 3 years worth of video content in HD, and they couldn't link to nothing. At least going forward they will be up day 1 in HD. Just give them time to work the kinks out.
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#24  Edited By Mcfart

Whew, I was dling the P4 ER, and didn't want to be dling medium quality when i choice high >_>
 
...imo looks the same to me

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MattOnTheSite

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#25  Edited By MattOnTheSite

It may very well be that this is simply the new MP4 format compressing differently than the old FLVs. Then the (I assume) MP4s you've been downloading would look the same.
Whatever the case, I apparently like the quality less than I previously did. Especially in full screen, which is my preferred method to watch Giant Bomb's long form content.

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#26  Edited By alistercat
@MattC:  Flash as a format for video is going down rapidly. Its the way of video on the web for the next few years. Video For Everyone is a good push for a good web standard.
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#27  Edited By Feanor
@tsolless: Wouldn't have made sense to have it ready before you asked people to pay for it?
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#28  Edited By alistercat
@Feanor:  It's going to take so long to do, I don't think that was feasible.
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#29  Edited By Feanor
@AlisterCat: They have been planing for this subscription thing for a while now. HD videos was the most obvious feature, no reason they couldn't have started updating the back catalog months ago.
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#30  Edited By alistercat
@Feanor:  and you know there wasn't a reason because...?
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#31  Edited By Feanor
@AlisterCat: and you know there was reason beacuse...?
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#32  Edited By alistercat
@Feanor:  I didn't say there was a reason. I don't work there, any speculation on my part would be pointless.
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#33  Edited By MattOnTheSite
@AlisterCat:  I am familiar with Flash video's decline but that topic is irrelevant. It just happens that this format looks worse at these levels of compression, resolution, etc.
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#34  Edited By Feanor
@AlisterCat: well you did speculate a little. You said you didn't think it was feasible, how do you know? 
 
Anyways, its a dumb thing you argue about. I just think they should have had it ready for when they launched the subscription service. Right now people are paying for a feature that isn't even accessible. 
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#35  Edited By alistercat
@MattC:  I think it is relevant. I meant it more as "You'll have to get used to it". I don't think it looks worse but I can see why other people might.
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#36  Edited By alistercat
@Feanor:  I guess I did. I just know how long it takes to encode videos in HD, and without strict planning I can't see them devoting computers to rendering the videos before now but that is just speculation.
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#37  Edited By MattyFTM  Moderator
@MattC said:

" Is it just me, or does it look like the current High setting in the video player has been reduced to the quality of the old Medium setting? With the new HD versions available it seems that they simply renamed Medium to be called High. This is definitely a downgrade for non-subscribing users who can't access the same quality of video they previously could.Am I imagining this? Does it seem like this is the case to anyone else? "

I'm sure you're imagining things. The funny thing about the medium setting is that it provided exactly the same video quality as the low setting. It was a social experiment type thing and sort of an attempt to save bandwidth costs. Waaaaay back in the early days of the site there was a separate medium quality video quality. They got rid of that to save money with their video host a long time ago. They left the medium option in, but had it play the same quality video as the low setting because they figured that if they just had a low & high settings most people would select high, however if they left the medium setting in, people would select that, view the low quality video, and still be happy with the quality. 
 
So making the high setting the same as the old medium, would mean making it the same as low, and then re-encoding all the video's to a new, even lower quality, for the new low quality setting, which I'm pretty certain they wouldn't have done.
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#38  Edited By Joru

Looks exactly the same to me, it's not HD but still pretty good imo. I can't even make use of HD on the net most of the time, because the videos load slower than they play, and I can't be bothered to wait. I guess that's because most servers are in the US and I'm in the EU.

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The videos look worse to me. I always had the videos on high setting before and now I can tell the difference immediately. I imagine this was done to make the premium HD video option look more attractive, which is again a rather uncool thing to do on top of the whole bombcast fiasco.

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#40  Edited By CannonGoose
@MattyFTM said:
" @MattC said:
" Is it just me, or does it look like the current High setting in the video player has been reduced to the quality of the old Medium setting? With the new HD versions available it seems that they simply renamed Medium to be called High. This is definitely a downgrade for non-subscribing users who can't access the same quality of video they previously could.Am I imagining this? Does it seem like this is the case to anyone else? "
I'm sure you're imagining things. The funny thing about the medium setting is that it provided exactly the same video quality as the low setting. It was a social experiment type thing and sort of an attempt to save bandwidth costs. Waaaaay back in the early days of the site there was a separate medium quality video quality. They got rid of that to save money with their video host a long time. They left the medium option in, but had it play the same quality video as the low setting because they figured that if they just had a low & high settings most people would select high, however if they left the medium setting in, people would select that, view the low quality video, and still be happy with the quality. So making the high setting the same as the old medium, would mean making it the same as low, and then re-encoding all the video's to a new, even lower quality, for the new low quality setting, which I'm pretty certain they wouldn't have done. "
Hah! That's a pretty interesting tidbit of info.
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#41  Edited By DrPockets000

High quality looks the same as it always has to me.

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#42  Edited By Aarny91

I was thinking that myself.

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#43  Edited By jeff
@AlisterCat said:
" @MrOldboy:  You are getting what they said. HD. HD is a resolution, not a measure of quality. Now for the flipcam vids they can't control the quality much. The camera does it for them. But the professionally shot stuff, the quicklooks are decided on the final export after editing so they have much greater control. So I expect that stuff to be good quality. The placeholders aren't ideal but it's going to take forever for them to re-render 3 years worth of video content in HD, and they couldn't link to nothing. At least going forward they will be up day 1 in HD. Just give them time to work the kinks out. "
I believe the last estimate I heard was that it'd take something like 100 days to get all of our old video stuff uploaded to our new off-site encoder. Not quite "forever," but yeah, it's going to take some time. They also allow you to send them your hard drives, but we're worried that some of it would get lost or destroyed in transit.
 
We're also working out a couple of kinks with the HD option, as I understand it. We've got a pretty lengthy Halo: Reach Quick Look running today that should be a good test of where we're at with things, but yeah, like I said, a couple of kinks. Our entire encoding process has changed for this stuff, so we're no longer doing it in the building on a big-ass multicore Mac Pro. Now, videos get sent off to some magic box in the sky that specializes in encoding videos. CLOUD COMPUTING, PEOPLE, IT'S THE FUTURE.
 
We're also talking about setting up RSS feeds for video downloads, which should make it easy for you guys who want it all to set up automatic downloads and stuff. I'll probably use this to automatically grab all our videos into a folder that my PS3 can see, allowing me to watch it all on my TV without much trouble.
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#44  Edited By alistercat
@Jeff:  Good news. 100 days seems reasonable for the amount of video content. On my set up it can take a 6 hours to render a minute of full HD footage. I imagine there will be RSS feeds to auto download the endurance runs? Opening each video page and downloading over 150 episodes one at a time could be quite tedious.
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#45  Edited By mosdl
@Jeff: The first Reach mailbag looks much better than the supplemental one for some reason in HD.
 
Also, any chance of adding back/forward buttons to endurance run videos to make it easier to go through them?
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#46  Edited By BUZZCOLA

does look more fuzzy o noes =( 
 
feels like the labeled high hd and got rid of the middle setting

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#47  Edited By MrOldboy
@Jeff: Can we expect the back-catalog to be uploaded as they are finished, or all at once in 100 days? I'd rather see the videos slowly get updated starting with the most recent video posts.