The Feminist Debate: No Room For Individualism?

quoting for sensible post.

I always love the idea of a kick ass woman, it's just sometimes it becomes a sensitive subject to pretty much everyone. Sometimes some people find it disturbing, or grotesque or just strange. It's something I try not to bring up, in fear of some people's bizarre or unwarnted reaction. Had one ex girlfriend who was basically foaming at the mouth with rage over Xmen comic books, or have a Nephew who walked out of Empire Strikes Back when Han Solo and Liea kiss. It's just so subjective, really everyone wants it their own way about this issue especially if it's in front of them.

I don't know ask patrick.

I've heard Anita described as a radical feminist, and that's not fair because she's not. She's in fact an extremely mainstream feminist, looking for easy answers that fit her shallow ideology. At some point I don't even think she so much cares for women's rights, she doesn't seem to care very much at all about opening schools in the third world or securing some legal right that only men have... Instead it seems what she's most concerned about is heterosexual male sexuality. It's the one thing that holds true through every one of her videos, no matter what, her main problem is that hetero men are sexually interested in women. Maybe she has the same 'super-empathy' derangement as Andrea Dworkin, where whenever she saw a porn actress spread her legs, she felt like she was being forced to spread hers. Anita's problem appears to be that if she feels 'the wrong people' might be sexually titilatted by something, then it's sexist and demeaning towards women. Her solutions are not as simple as 'get rid of the man, replace with a woman', she's a step up on the Petits and McSheas of the world, her problem is 'get rid of the male sexuality, replace it with ????'

I'm now fully aware why sex-positive feminists had bones to pick with Anita. Her ethos seems far less about female empowerment and far more about getting all sex and sexuality out of video games and media. I don't know if it qualifies for objects of female sexuality or depictions of homosexuality, so I don't know whether she's a hypocrite or a full-bore puritan. But she is clearly distressed any time she plays or watches something and gets the impression that some boy somewhere might pop a boner because of it.

relax, i tag him to stuff and he never responds in any case. but im sure he reads it.

and i want this stuff to end as well, but its looking like it'll never end.

This is the sum total of all that needs to be said about any rant against feminism.

Group hug!

I don't actually need to read any of this, do I? I mean, there might actually be a smidgeon of useful, wise insight somewhere in here.

...then again, I might see a hundred dollar bill on the ground on the way to my car after work.

Go ahead and read it. Even if you don't agree with any of it, it would help me out a great deal if people read it, even if it is a lengthy blog (this is one of the longest I've done in recent memory). And it definitely will at least give you insight to what someone else thinks about the situation.

@chrissedoff: It's not an anti-feminist rant, though. Just an argument against one particular mindset.

Groups that "specialize in only one direction like feminists to are not needed anywhere. Don't stand only for women rights stands for rights of everyone.

The problem with Other M isn't that Samus seems really really really driven to follow the every whim and command, no mater how dangerous or nonsense it is, of some guy who was never properly introduced to the player. That isn't individualism or heroic. Having Samus freak out over seeing Ridley and Samus' childish monologues that sound more like a kid posting on FB is icing on the "this is stupid" cake.

@darkpower: There is no 'feminist debate.' To suggest the broad, long term representation of women in games is NOT patronizing, demeaning and often fetishistic is clearly wrong to ANYONE outside of your little bubble.

Lets put it this way. With us, guys, lovers of games: this thread is a discussion. If it was all of our mothers here rather than us: you would be laughed out of the room within your first paragraph.

There is no debate

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/debate :

de·bate (d

-b

t

)

v.de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing, de·bates

v.

intr.

1. To consider something; deliberate.2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.4. Obsolete To fight or quarrel.

Yeah, a formal DISCUSSION would count as a debate.

Took a bit for someone to bring Other M up. Thought it would be sooner than that. Thing of it is that we were introduced to Adam in Metroid Fusion via the AI and how she describes him in that game, and how she defends some of the actions. And until you are in that sort of situation with that sort of circumstances, you cannot validly tell me how one person is supposed to react to any given situation within a set type of circumstances. And plus, look what she does to him right after the episode? She utterly kicks his ass! Why, and how, do you think she gathers herself to beat him? Exactly!

And I didn't have any problem with the dialogue in the game. It was fine for what it was, to be honest. No one is ever going to change my mind that Jessica Martin did good in the role (especially after seeing the unrelated short film she made shortly after the game came out).

Metroid Other M is a fictional story. This entire argument makes about as much sense as saying say I can't criticize what JK Rowling was doing with Harry Potter until I get accepted into a magic school as an outsider. I'm pretty sure I will not be a space pirate killing bounty hunter with a convoluted mess of a background but I am pretty sure I can make judgements about the quality on Other M by simply using common sense.

Let me repeat this: This has nothing to do with gender or background or whatever. There is nothing noble or heroic about a bunch of the nonsense in this action game. The plot had parts that could have been interesting but they squandered it. The dialog was bizarre. I pulled up a youtube video with the cut scenes and pulled out choice nuggets:

"It was obvious that there was some pervasive danger through the facility."

"Out of nowhere, I suddenly found myself concerned with his opinion again."

"Confession time. Because I was so young when I lost both of my parents, there's no question I saw Adam as a father figure."

Part of this can be due to translation but there is something like 2 hours of CG movies in the game and a lot of it is crap like this.

The flaws in Other M's story isn't the story or Samus's characterization. The writing does a poor job of getting it across, but Samus's portrayal isn't a sexist one.

... why don't we just focus on making good characters and get rid of dumb focus testing? Why don't people be more civil when talking about this? Why do we have to devolve into breaking down into semantic arguments and inflammatory/ overly snarky dialogue when we talk about these things?

oh wait. Internet. But seriously, we do need to face the facts that women are underrepresented in video games. I like sexy females as much as the next guy, but I want some more female Morgan Freemans to go along with my female Kratoses.

Edit: I meant Gordon Freeman, not Morgan Freeman. Although if there were more of those, that would be okay as well!

Every time a thread like this pops up, posting in it is akin to sticking your hands in a blender in order to stop the blade from spinning. It's painful to experience, doesn't accomplish very much, and discouraging enough to make you never want to try again. I'm not trying to squash reasonable discussion as I feel it is a topic worth expounding on, but until people learn the difference between subjectivity and objectivity (and which applies to what), it's totally futile.

I'm missing too many metaphorical fingers to try again so soon.

pleaase no Morgan Freemans... He had no character, personality or other characteristics that makes him a human being. And yeah I would like to have more female leads like Ellie for example^^

Well written.

I am not surprised that you have been banned for expressing your opinion. Its a sign of poor ability to defend yourself against objective criticism. Its a good rule of thumb to consider both viewpoints before forming your own opinion. Sadly many people just absorb the thoughts that surround them and take it as the truth.

@milkman: AHAHAHAHA. Amazing. Bravo.

@bluefish: There's no feminist debate? What would you call the so-called Feminist Sex Wars, where feminists argued against feminists whether sexual liberation was demeaning or, well, liberation. It's still going on now. If that's not a debate I don't know what is.

When you're talking about feminism, why bring up specifically the opinions of women? There are women who are anti-feminist, there are men who are feminist. Feminism does not equal women.

Also your idea that my mother is more intelligent, rational and reasoned than I am purely because she's a woman and I'm a man... Well, good luck with that. Maybe buckle up first.

I think one of the best things a person can do when writing something that they want other people to read and agree with is be open and understanding and keep the sarcasm and insults to a minimum. For me, I always want people to get my points and not feel that I am demeaning their own opinions in the process. I think I have had some good conversations here, and some not so good, but it isn’t for lack of trying to understand or discuss a touchy subject. I also have changed a lot in how I write over the years here and, more importantly, how I read what is written. I feel like I have become better at understanding people that I disagree with, and I hope that comes across in the threads.

Why is it touchy to me personally? Well, as a female and someone who has played games for most of her life (about 28 years, I’m turning 31 this Sunday, woo hoo) I find that I enjoy expressing myself when it comes to subjects concerning women in games, their portrayals, how they are treated by the community at large, and how companies market to both men and women. This may seem like innocuous stuff, but to me it’s important enough to talk about. I certainly don’t agree with everything that a person may say when it comes to this subject, but I do understand more often then not on an emotional level why the talk is happening. People who play games and have en emotional investment in them will want to talk about them and it’s just common sense that opinions will vary wildly with each individual.

Now, I can’t comment on everything said so far or I will be here all day and night and I would much rather be playing Borderlands 2 with my husband or trying Eldritch for the first time. However, I will try to touch on a few things here and there. First, Quiet’s outfit is ridiculous. The only reason why I don’t particularly care about her outfit being so outlandish is because she is in a Kojima game. Kojima tends to dress the inhabitants of his universe in ways that are absolutely unrealistic and preposterous. And that’s totally okay. However, I can see why people are getting annoyed with the outlandishness, especially where this character is concerned. When I first saw it, I admit I rolled my eyes and laughed at how silly it seemed. I am sure Kojima has an elaborate justification for the outfit that is totally explained in the game. It’s probably going to be pretty interesting too, or totally batshit insane. The important thing, even with all of those caveats, is that doesn’t absolve the costume design from critique. The problem is that so many women in games are dressed this way, not that one woman in one game is dressed this way. I just recently watched the Quick Look of Girl Fight. Vinny made a joke about Warchild getting a shirt that fits as her reward for completing the game. This is a joke that you can easily make about a lot of games. It’s not that one person is ridiculously dressed, it’s that it is so common. It’s become a tired trope. Sure, it’s cool to see a sexy lady in a sexy outfit, I totally understand it and some designs are really interesting and sexy, like Bayonetta or Mai Shiranui. But it would also be nice to see more realistic portrayals too. The good thing is that games are getting better about this. There is still a ways to go for some amount of parity, though.

Second, I don’t know why you believe that anyone who agrees that there are issues in games concerning women is somehow also in lockstep with each other and seeking to quiet discussion. I myself find that I disagree with purported feminist critiques much more than I agree with them. But, and this is a big point, I also agree that there are issues that need time and discussion. I could flip that point to say that people who don’t see any problems are trying to cut off discussion by yelling “oh not this shit again” whenever a thread pops up, whether the original post is valid or not. You can’t use a blanket statement to say that one side is doing something because there are many people with varying levels of involvement and opinions trying to express themselves. I myself have seen much more of the latter, the immediate call to ignore, demean and dismiss an issue that someone is calling attention to, whether it’s the artwork of a particular game or a person being harassed at a convention. While these issues run the gamut from not serious to perhaps life altering, the call to ignore or dismiss the issue as business as usual or complaining or attention whoring is almost immediate and pervasive. That stinks. So I understand your desire to see more acceptance of views, but that street needs to go both ways.

Third, interpretations of games are not facts. Your interpretation of the events of Metroid: Other M or Tomb Raider are just that, interpretations gleaned from hours of gameplay. I could play the same game and, as a female, could interpret it slightly differently. It would also depend on the breadth of knowledge of the character itself. I think most people would not have issues with Other M if the game existed in a vacuum and Samus didn’t already have many games worth of character development behind her. Most complaints I see of the game don’t fall into a reading of it based of feminist critique alone, they look to her in other games and see the discrepancies between an earlier version and a newer version. That isn’t a bad thing. If I played all the Halo games and then got to Halo 5 and Master Chief all of a sudden forgets how to use a gun or becomes an indecisive milquetoast instead of the badass super soldier I have learned to play in the past 4 games, I would certainly critique that character’s representation in the new game.

I will close by saying that I think you are doing a good job trying to articulate a difficult point. I would say that I don’t agree with all of your points, but I agree with you in some, I just wish that you had not been so judgmental in your original posting. I say that as someone who desires to reach understanding with people, and unfortunately your original attacks make it hard to take your better points seriously. I will admit that I almost gave up on your post a few paragraphs in, and I think that would be a shame if other people couldn’t power through to the meat of what you are saying. Imagine you are writing to who you disagree with, not to an audience that may already agree with you. I know that you may actually feel Anita is a clown, and I certainly don’t view her as any sort of figurehead to emulate, but it would serve you much better to phrase it a bit differently. Like I said, I almost gave up on your post early, you probably don’t want people to do that if you put so much time into your writing.

@hailinel: I am only objecting to the OP's suggest that Other M is a great example of "individualism" because of the flaws it makes using this as a foundation for an argument hard to sustain. I believe there is something to the topic but they really shouldn't have used this game in citation.

Also, there is a warning about the inherent weakness in creating arguments out of fictional stories. Using Harry Potter again: It is well and good to argue that racism/classism is bad and that what JK Rowling was pointing out in the "Harry Potter" was why it was bad but actually using Harry Potter and The Philosopher Stone in an argument needs to be done carefully and probably should be avoided. Fictional stories can function as "morality plays" which are demonstrations of ethics and morality but the "morality play" is not evidence or proof of anything.

Bringing it back to video games, Quiet is a fictional character created by the mind of Kojima. People are free to argue whether or not Quiet is good or bad or whatever but they should avoid suggesting stuff like this:

Did we ever stop to think that it’s just within a character’s personality to want to let their hair down and just be themselves, even if that means not wanting to wear a lot of clothes.

This is a really poor argument to make. Quiet is wearing the clothes she wears for for those scenes in a game because that is how people who built the game wanted her to look. I am not saying that there aren't real women who want and would chose to dress that way but suggesting that Quiet has a say in her wardrobe is very silly.

Shut up. If you had any real interest in discussing this topic you wouldn't be bringing Anita into this. Discuss for the sake of discussing. You don't care about feminism or "individualism", just trying to rationalize your own crap.

Great contribution, really furthering the discussion here.

I think that a big factor in some of the more troubling female character designs in games is that generally the primary agent of change in most games is violence. If you are using a male character, you make kind of a caricature of a real man; one who is singular in focus, leagues more capable than his enemies and emotionally resolute. These types of characters are just power fantasies. They are the self idealized to the point of flatness and physically perfect. I mean, Nathan drake never feels traumatized for any real amount of time or complains about a bum knee after effortlessly climbing a cliff. They tried to make the new lara croft act like a normal non-psychotic human being in the beginning of tomb raider, but then promptly shelved all that mostly well done character development after they realized, "ohh yeah, this game is about murdering people". What they should have done is made lara become more and more savage and psycho as the game went until she reached complete tragic lunacy by the end. But the devs. were probably to scared by marketing to make a universally unattractive female character. This has been a problem with both male and female characters.

The problem with adapting female characters to the medium is that the history of the real world brings its own baggage into the equation. Namely, the repression of women throughout most of modern history. When you try to make the female action caricature, the result comes of different in terms of social context than if you were to make an equivalent male. Its also a problem that developers seem to feel the need to sexualize their lead characters. I think that the intention is to create an empowered well rounded woman but they mess it up pretty consistently by making her overly emotional, brutal, ridiculous and overly sexualized so that the character ends up reeking of artifice. Like I said above, I think that you can get away with the ridiculous artifice with male characters but with female characters it just rubs people the wrong way because of the real world issues that are in such a state of transition in the modern world. I think the solution to this is to write better characters period. I really like Geralt from the witcher series. He can go from being seductive to being a brute to being a wise man in a matter of minutes, like a real intelligent person would. What we need is more of the female equivalent of that.

Moreover, it seems pretty clear that game devs. are really struggling to make any kind of sexualized character both male and female, yet feel the need to sexualize most female characters regardless. I mean really, does a female soldier or assasin need to be sexualized to begin with? I would say no, nothing should be sexy about being a mass murderer. If anything, such characters should be kind of psychotic and disturbed like the dudes from spec-ops the line. Also, it seems like devs. have weird ideas about what is sexy to begin with so instead of making a strong willed beautiful woman they just dress her up like a whore. The games industry needs to move away from this 12 year old mentality. It takes a bit more nuance to create an attractive (if your over 13) male or female character. Why is it such a barrier to make an attractive, "sexy" character that is fully clothed and responds to situations like an normal human being?

This isn't related to the topic, or maybe it is in a tangential sense. Anyway, what I'm wondering is why a hobby or pastime being skewed toward one gender or the other somehow a bad thing? So guys tend to play more video games, why is this a bad thing? Why do some people out there see this as a moral wrong that must be corrected? The women who do play games do so because they enjoy the medium. It didn't cater to them, they just appreciate what is on offer.

I'm not saying there isn't sexist bullshit or misogyny in the gaming subculture, what I am wondering though is why these feminist types think a male dominated hobby is such a terrible thing.

Right, like there's something groundbreaking going on here.

Something tells me you didn't actually read the blog.

@greggd: @greggd: I did. What else do you need?

@floope: I don't know, maybe something other than angst and gross assumptions?

Much like this blog. oh and this.

For the first part: I think it is wrong to say that it is okay for men to represented like that or just say they are dumb and it is over and to react to such women totally different because of history. We are not living in these times anymore and thank god for that but constantly to be remembered of these times does not help one bit at all. Yes history is a good thing and we need to learn about it in school but every time someone seems to be offended is because of history reasons....

As for the second part we should not change these dumb games they have a right to exist. WE should add a new quality level of games which mostly will be accomplished through better writing in general with female and male protagonists. It is great to have games like a the Last of US but also we should not abolish all these really stupid games with stupid character, with character with big boobs, big muscular chests and so on. IT is like watching an 80 or 90s movie and I personally think it is great. Just do not over analyze things For example Rocky IV is one of my most favorite movies of all time because it is utterly stupid but really entertaining to watch. Yes it has probably a terrible message if you analyze this movie but just shut down your Brian and enjoy it^^

Also one more thing if you complain more and more about these characters which are already in a minority. Not many people will even try to make a good one in fear of this bad PR and publicity. Look how many really really stupid and awful white male characters we have and only just a handful of really good ones. If we went against every really awful one we would have never had these great ones. Just ignore the bad ones, say they are terrible and stupid but do not accuse them of something. Then people actually will try more and more and in all these tries we will get great characters and studios like a Naughty Dog for example which creates absolut fantastic characters no matter the race, gender or sexuality.

I think a character's appearance should have context to justify it. You can make your character look like anything you want, as long as you can make me believe they would.

And if it fits the world it is set in. Like Quiet fits perfectly into the MGS universe for example.

Toally agree but for that we also need to be able to cross lines. Like the rape scene with Hotline Miami 2 for example. In movies you can win awards with such a scene in Video games it is just terrible and misogynistic.

@darji: I half deleted my post and then fully deleted, but my point stands in that I think a lot of people want to see the medium expand and "grow up" for lack of a better term, and it can be disheartening to see it always go to the same places. Movies have everything from low budget shockers to documentaries, action films, rom coms, meditations on war and life, and silly gross out comedies. The budgets can be miniscule or indulgent. There are genres for every taste and type of person. Unfortunately, even though the audience for games is growing, I think the game companies are relying too much on safe bets and things that have always worked. What happens when they don't work as well anymore?

I have always viewed these discussions as a warning to the people who make games. Yes, a sexy skin will sell today, but maybe not tomorrow if more and more people get into the medium with varying tastes and ideas of what constitutes a "good character." Just like you don't have one type of movie or one type of person shown in a movie, you shouldn't have one type of game or one type of game character. Games have grown leaps and bounds from Pong, Super Mario Bros. and Sonic the Hedgehog, but they have a ways to go too in all respects, with women, minorities, and even things as simple as showing real, honest believable relationships between characters. But, and this is a big point I hope everyone gets at the end of the day, there is also room for all the stupid sexy stuff too that has no real explanation or purpose just besides being stupid sexy stuff.

Edit- When I say a warning, I do not mean to imply a threat. I only want to make clear that games are a growing medium with different genders, races, religions, cultures etc becoming more and more involved with them as time goes on. So sticking to what worked before will not always work and I hope that developers and game companies seek to grow beyond what works now and try to find new characters, games, mechanics, and stories to tell. The good thing is that this seems to be happening a lot now in the independent sphere of game development, I just hope big companies won't reject a good idea just because of focus testing or whatever is making them feel that certain games and genres are not viable.

Oh I totally agree we need definitely more diversity but as you say especially big developers are going more a safe route because they fear bad PR and publicity when they make some sort of errors even if they at least tried to make a compelling female protagonist like Ellie for example which was also criticized for these reasons from the usual people for example. We also should not focus on tropes because tropes will always exist and they will always be part of a character and story. Just look at this TV tropes site. There is not one character that is can not be put in there and there never will be. You can make great even stereotype characters that are like able like an Nathan Drake for example which was compelling for male and female gamers. We also should accuse games that are not story focused f things like sexism or stereotypes. In my opinion Sony does a fantastic job with these. Take the Order for example: The female character already looks and sounds absolute great. It is just sad to see that these games with a female protagonist do not sell that well normally so we will not often be able to use these kind of characters as the protagonist.

Name: Isabeau D’Argyll

Alias: Lady Igraine

If you’ve read tales about King Arthur, you may remember his mother was named Lady Igraine. In The Order: 1886, Lady Igraine is a youthful-looking warrior named Isabeau D’Argyll. She and Galahad have a close but guarded relationship which started with her as his knight in training. Over the years the two become fond of one another, though their allegiance to The Order forbids them from ever acting on any underlying feelings. Isabeau’s character extends beyond her relationship with Galahad, however. She is strong-willed, skilled in combat, and fiercely loyal to The Order. “Isabeau is every bit the knight that Galahad is,” says Ru Weerasuriya, creative director on The Order: 1886. “There’s this kind of rivalry between them.”

Bottom line is let these stupid characters alone they have a right to exist but also encourage developer who are creating such great characters more and more and do not over analyze them so we will get more and more of these.

@floope said:

Thank you for proving part of the entire point I was making correct.

I have found that modern feminism is doing more harm to the movement than anything else. Just as you stated, feminism is nearly destroying identity and individualism as it nearly preaches that to be a woman you need to be x, y, z and you HAVE to be breaking some sort of gender role or whatever. The flip side of that coin is I never see women talk to women about how their gender is treated or represented in nerd culture/gaming culture. All we see and talk about is how males treat the subject, and women, and I feel it stays there and goes no further. Sure, the majority of female character design in games is obnoxious, boring, and over the top but if it is literally so terrible then why are there so many girls and women who are at times clamoring to be the first one to cosplay that particular character the second a picture shows up for the first time? Why do we ignore female cosplayers who love to cosplay these 3/4 naked characters but only preach to the men who (mostly) play them in the game?

When I mention stuff like this on other sites, such as io9, I am told that "women can be misogynist too" or "women can be part of the problem as well" but the problem, again, is that this is always treated as a "Holy shit, men are terrible, huh?" kind of thing. Just as with the modern union movement and the modern civil rights movement they can potentially do more harm to their cause then those trying to oppress them.

You know what? When people attack some other person's point of view instead of merely expressing their own point of view, that when I can only shake my head. If people think Anita Sarkeesian point of view is wrong, they are free to provide another point of view, but when they just attack and gripe that she even has a point of view they make themselves seem foolish.

So much attacking, and so much complaining, but for what?

That is what I don't get, how can anyone think they should be taken seriously when they use Anita Sarkeesian videos like chew toys they cannot unclench their teeth from around? If you have what you think is wisdom, than share it. But that's the problem they most people don't have wisdom to spread they just want to kick-her in the shins. We need more people engaging Sarkeesian or anyone else's arguments with thoughtful debate. Only through friendly intellectually inquisitive debate will be gain greater understanding of gaming.

@monkeyking1969: What are you _talking_ about?! There's all these videos criticizing the rhetoric and the logic and the evidence of Anita Sarkeesian's videos, but they're not proposing an alternate point of view? They're just 'kicking her in the shins'? Over what? Over her fallacious logic and hypocritical rhetoric? Criticism that she never responds to, instead engaging with the trolls who send trolling messages? 'Friendly inquisitive debate'? Why not real debate, where friendliness has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to construct an argument attained by evidence presented?

I'm just really confused. What about making a counterargument that directly contradicts and refutes her propositions is NOT engaging with her?

I was told by a few women who I asked this to on Facebook (that I personally know) what they thought and she said that men don't really have body types thrown at them and only women do. I was also told that since women get eating disorders from self esteem and body issues that men do not even though I personally know men who DO and I also linked several studies showing 1 in 4 men suffer from eating disorders related to the same problems.

Are body issues larger for women? Yeah, but modern feminism is such that if you do not agree 100% with their argument then you are "a troll" and they try to make your argument illegitimate. Anita Sarkeesian may have good intentions but since she only ever calls out trolls and never has an actual debate with anyone intelligent, well read, and respectable she only ever comes off as wanting softballs thrown her way so she looks victorious. Not to mention her web videos haven't talked about or shown things that have been beaten to death with no new, original, or increasingly thought provoking commentary from her side or opinion. That's my problem. I don't hate her, I just think her work comes across as lazy and old hat. If she wants to throw it in my face that this industry is sexist then she needs to find new material and not everything I already know.

I don't really know if it's really related to anything that's being discussed currently(I'll read through this thread at work), but I've got a real big problem with people acting like "the patriarchy" is an organization or a physical thing, like it can be firebombed or destroyed by slander and bigotry.

OH BOY HERE COMES LINA STOMPING INTO A FEMINISM THREAD WHODA THUNK

Men are starting to get it. What Hugh Jackman, Chris Hemsworth, Henry Cavill, and Chris Evans go through to look like their super hero counterpart is insane.

Are body issues larger for women? Yeah, but modern feminism is such that if you do not agree 100% with their argument then you are "a troll" and they try to make your argument illegitimate. Anita Sarkeesian may have good intentions but since she only ever calls out trolls and never has an actual debate with anyone intelligent, well read, and respectable she only ever comes off as wanting softballs thrown her way so she looks victorious. Not to mention her web videos haven't talked about or shown things that have been beaten to death with no new, original, or increasingly thought provoking commentary from her side or opinion. That's my problem. I don't hate her, I just think her work comes across as lazy and old hat. If she wants to throw it in my face that this industry is sexist then she needs to find new material and not everything I already know.

I completely agree with your assessment of Sarkeesian. The damsel in distress is a lazy story telling device, but it isn't a video game fault. It goes back thousands of years. She has always struck me as someone who goes out of here way to get offended.