I apologize if this has already been beaten to death, but I'm new here and this has been bugging me for a while.
Wouldn't a game like Smash Bros. thrive on XBL and PSN? It seems like a no brainer, and there are several developers/publishers that have a large cast of IP characters that would work great in that style of game. Capcom and Konami being two obvious ones. Even Microsoft and Sony have enough characters to pull it off. It's not like Smash Bros. had a huge roster.
Everyone is so quick to try and clone WoW if they're making an MMO or CoD if they're making a shooter, but nobody tries to cash in on Nintendo's successful games?
So why not? Is it a respect thing?
Edit: So yeah, I reached my daily post limit, but thanks for the discussion guys. Brawl did indeed have a large roster, MS and Sony were terrible examples, but I would buy the hell out of a Konami Smash game with Suikoden/ Castlevania/ etc characters or an Atlus Smash game with SMT characters and demons =)
I'm aware of the existence of Small Arms, heh. I'm talking about a game with an actual budget and talented Dev behind it with established characters in the roster :)
If you're talking Smash Bros in particular, no one else has the same stable of easily recognizable mascots. Sony's got Kratos, Cole, Solid Snake (kinda), and...Crash Bandicoot? Gex??? Microsoft's got the Markus Fenix, Commander Shepard (sorta), Master Chief, and Bayonetta for all intents and purposes.
They don't all have to be main characters though, using Marcus Fenix (ugh) as an example, you could also have Cole, Dom, Aaaaaanya, other...dude, various Locusts.... god please don't make a Gears Smash Bros. game.
The N64/Gamecube generation had a ton of Mario clones that either died out or evolved into their own series like Banjo-Kazooie and Jak & Daxter.
For the longest time, Castlevania has been going the Metroid route, almost killing that style from oversaturation.
There are a ton of Mario Kart clones, but they're usually crappy.
I'm glad people have finally started making Zelda clones, Okami was awesome and Darksiders was okay.
It does seem like no one in the industry really pays much attention to Nintendo these days, though. They still make amazing games, but considering the "independent" route they've taken with their systems and their lack of 3rd-party support, it's a fate of their own making.
@Vexed: Nintendo has a ton of first-party franchises, though, and Microsoft and Sony don't, really. They'd have to license third-party characters to have a decent-sized roster. The characters they do have are either really disparate or are just regular people in specific games; I have no interest in seeing Marcus Fenix and Dom fight Master Chief and the Arbiter, or Kratos battling Nathan Drake and Ratchet. For some reason, none of those hypotheticals interest me in the least. Nostalgia plays a factor in Smash Bros. popularity, and that all the characters are so different, but share a common "feel".
Brawl had something like 35 characters, 39 I think once you count in the fact that Zelda and Shiek, Samus and Zero Suit Samus, and Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are all seperate characters in their own way. 39 is a pretty huge roster.
Its the character recognition and first party status of most of those Its also the ability for those characters to be in a fighting game
i don't think it would be much fun to have fenix just punch and kick, same with master chief, a lot of the bigger franchises on 360 especially, but also PS3 are first person or third person shooters
thats why anarchy reigns / max anarchy is sounding good with people from the platinum games roster in one game
i think its also the cartoonish nature of most of the nintendo roster; sony is trying that with move heroes (can't remember the new name) with daxter etc but it looks like its just a game based on the mechanics that they all share, like platforming, rather than a brawler
and i think the biggest reason why a lot of games that nintendo makes aren't 'stolen' or mirrored is that they're nintendo games and for some reason they can only make them - i was watching the doom / id retrospective and john carmack remade super mario bros 3 i think to prove something about the side scrolling on PC early on in the companies career and it showed a screen shot and maybe knowing it wasn't made by nintendo or something but it looked ridiculous and i just thought how did that ever become popular; small italian american pumber running towards the right almost continually by-passing walking mushrooms and dinosaur creatures and jumping into the occasional pipe; just thought it was odd, so maybe its just some kind of nintendo 'magic' or in actuality nostalgia i think more than anything else but also nintendo uses that base advantageously in that they make good games based on solid gameplay with these characters you've known for years
Well, weren't a ton of games in the N64/PS1 basically reactions to Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time? Remember how most of them were bad? That's why people don't try to imitate Nintendo that much anymore. Okami and Darksiders are pretty much the Zelda clones of the last decade.
They've been trying to tap those markets Nintendo owns with mixed results.
But in terms of ripping off their hardware or game design.... why? The hardware design is miles behind their competitors. Game design... it seems like only Nintendo can get certain formulas right. Other people try and fail.
Hell as amazing as mario galaxy is, it's still got Mario 64's gameplay, and people already tried cloning the shit out of that formula, once again with mixed results. Zelda clones exist, and they're pretty fun, I think that's the only Nintendo franchise people have successfully cloned, and even improved on in most cases. Smash Bros, people have tried and failed, plus you won't find that kind of first/second party roster anywhere else. And we've SEEN those Wii Sports clones. Ugggggh. Kinect Sports and Sports Champions are fine, but the third party Deca sports, or that one Ubisoft game for the Kinect with the horses... SO bad. People have also cloned pokemon, but those clones are kinda bad. Robopon? Seriously, that's the best you could come up with?
" @XII_Sniper: Castlevania cloned Metroid. That's the best example I can come up with. "
Very true, they were quite successful in that regard, but to Castlevania's credit, Nintendo kinda abandoned that style of Metroid game. I don't even know what Metroid really is anymore, if they'll continue down Other M's route or go back to the Prime games, or go even further back to the Castleroid style games.
Speaking of which, there's a reason people have called it that, pretty much Castlevania was one of the only franchises to use that design, short of a couple other games like Shadow Complex and stuff. So it's worked for Konami, but not necessarily a lot of other people.
Major franchises from Nintendo and their obvious "inspirees:"
Mario: Sonic the Hedgehog, Banjo Kazooie, Ratchet & Clank Zelda: Beyond Good & Evil, Darksiders, Batman: Arkham Asylum Okami? (I still think Okami is more similar to the original God of War (WHICH HAD A DUNGEON IN IT) than Zelda.) Metroid: Castlevania, Shadow Complex, Batman: Arkham Asylum (Batman is very much a combination of ideas from The Legend of Zelda and from Metroid) Pokemon: Digimon, Monster Rancher, Dragon Quest/Dragon Warrior Monsters, Persona 3/4 Star Fox: Star Wars Rogue Squadron (this style never really took off) F-Zero: Wipe-Out (this style also never really took off) Pikmin: Overlord, Swarm
Have I roughly satisfied your interests? Sure, there's not clear take-offs of series like Earthbound, Kid Icarus, Ice Climbers, or Super Smash Brothers, but that's because those series are either a relic of the past or something unique to Nintendo's abilities.
You know what would be great? Since Microsoft has the Banjo Kazoiee license right now, if they were to announce an actual sequel at E3 I would fucking freak!
" @XII_Sniper: Castlevania cloned Metroid. That's the best example I can come up with. "
Very true, they were quite successful in that regard, but to Castlevania's credit, Nintendo kinda abandoned that style of Metroid game. I don't even know what Metroid really is anymore, if they'll continue down Other M's route or go back to the Prime games, or go even further back to the Castleroid style games. Speaking of which, there's a reason people have called it that, pretty much Castlevania was one of the only franchises to use that design, short of a couple other games like Shadow Complex and stuff. So it's worked for Konami, but not necessarily a lot of other people. "
I've never heard this style not referred to as Metroidvania. "Castleroid" is a new one.
The Nintendo 64 was full of Nintendo rip-offs. They sucked. And I suppose with development costs these days, developers feel it's not worth trying that any more.
@kingzetta: The Wii version wasn't that bad, but yeah, the PS2 version is better. I wasn't talking about "on a Nintendo console" I was talking about a Nintendo-style game.
@Wrighteous86: I've heard both used. Metroidvania is probably the one I heard first, but Castleroid rolls off the tongue better. Either way, it goes to show that there are two franchises that dominate that style of game. Short of like... Shadow Complex, they've cornered it.
"I apologize if this has already been beaten to death, but I'm new here and this has been bugging me for a while. Wouldn't a game like Smash Bros. thrive on XBL and PSN? It seems like a no brainer, and there are several developers/publishers that have a large cast of IP characters that would work great in that style of game. Capcom and Konami being two obvious ones. Even Microsoft and Sony have enough characters to pull it off. It's not like Smash Bros. had a huge roster. Everyone is so quick to try and clone WoW if they're making an MMO or CoD if they're making a shooter, but nobody tries to cash in on Nintendo's successful games? So why not? Is it a respect thing? Edit: So yeah, I reached my daily post limit, but thanks for the discussion guys. Brawl did indeed have a large roster, MS and Sony were terrible examples, but I would buy the hell out of a Konami Smash game with Suikoden/ Castlevania/ etc characters or an Atlus Smash game with SMT characters and demons =) "
Yeah I wish more developers would, cmon Darksiders 2.
"Pokemon: Digimon, Monster Rancher, Dragon Quest/Dragon Warrior Monsters, Persona 3/4"
Actually, the history of the Megami Tensei franchise predates Pokemon by a significant margin. "
Has Shin Megami Tensei always included the fusion and Persona collection aspects? I'm not as familiar with the franchise as a whole, but I think the fusion of Personas is super-compelling, so I'd be fine with that influencing Pokémon or being influenced by Pokémon. Either way.
"Pokemon: Digimon, Monster Rancher, Dragon Quest/Dragon Warrior Monsters, Persona 3/4"
Actually, the history of the Megami Tensei franchise predates Pokemon by a significant margin. "
Has Shin Megami Tensei always included the fusion and Persona collection aspects? I'm not as familiar with the franchise as a whole, but I think the fusion of Personas is super-compelling, so I'd be fine with that influencing Pokémon or being influenced by Pokémon. Either way. "
Yep. Demon collection of one form or another and fusion have been around since the beginning.
" I'm aware of the existence of Small Arms, heh. I'm talking about a game with an actual budget and talented Dev behind it with established characters in the roster :) "
My mistake for making the thread title so non-specific. I know there have been a ton of Mario "inspired" games in the past and so on. My question had more to do with why games like Smash Bros. and to a lesser extent Pokemon that would flourish on a service like XBL and PSN haven't been exploited to tap that market.
Maybe a huge number of people DO play Brawl online on their Wii. I dunno. I just know that game concept is pretty fun, but I'd like it even more if I could play it on XBL with say.. Konami characters or Atlus characters. Even Capcom could be silly and make a Brawl clone with all their characters. Am I the only one who thinks that would pretty awesome?
@Hailinel:
None of those games, except possibly TFU2 are games that can be played on XBL or PSN.
For some reason it's saying I reached the 5 post limit already after one post - . -
" My mistake for making the thread title so non-specific. I know there have been a ton of Mario "inspired" games in the past and so on. My question had more to do with why games like Smash Bros. and to a lesser extent Pokemon that would flourish on a service like XBL and PSN haven't been exploited to tap that market. Maybe a huge number of people DO play Brawl online on their Wii. I dunno. I just know that game concept is pretty fun, but I'd like it even more if I could play it on XBL with say.. Konami characters or Atlus characters. Even Capcom could be silly and make a Brawl clone with all their characters. Am I the only one who thinks that would pretty awesome? "
Konami already tried Smash Bros. with Dream Mix TV World Fighters. Ubisoft tried it with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Smash-Up. Dream Mix was never released stateside and Smash-Up was just bad. Further, other games like the new Monkey Ball 3DS game and the Wii version of Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II both feature multiplayer modes that are their own riffs on Smash Bros.
These rip-offs happen. They just more or less either suck or are at best mediocre. Also, a huge part of the Smash Bros. appeal is the nostalgia factor, which to be honest most companies would have a hard time competing against Nintendo at.
As for Pokemon, there already have been competitors in Digimon, Demi-Kids, Dragon Quest Monsters, and others. It's just that Pokemon is a much bigger success than any of those other series.
Why don't we see more? Well in some cases you get this:
Other cases you get this:
I would like the see more of the latter than the former, but those don't happen too often. Not to mention it's not just about Nintendo rip-offs, but you have to match the quality that Nintendo puts into their games.
I would LOVE an HD SSB rip-off! SSB is the only fighting game I've ever loved. If someone could pull this off (I'm looking at you, Sony!), it would be so fucking awesome!!!
Log in to comment