Worth Reading: 10/26/12

Good write-up Patrick. Intriguing, to say the least. Thanks.

@zFUBARz said:

@CrossTheAtlantic said:

Well this is a totally crazy thing to read up on at the end of the week.

I can't believe Florence lost his job over the article. For me, that's more damning and telling than anything he could have rented.

I don't think he was fired, it seems like he quit because they altered his article. I may have misinterpreted though.

Hm. It's hard to say. I haven't seen anything that said leaving was of his own accord. Just that he "stepped down" which--considering the history of this very site--just rubs me as PR spin.

EDIT: Seems some at NeoGaf don't like Ryan's "not a journalist" response, but the article is going over well, @patrickklepek. Don't let this get ya down too much.

Geoff Keeley puts the GEEK in gaming, and I think the way he is, propels that stereotype. The guys here are as cynical as hell, but know when to give credit where it's due. Not too many sties can boast their audience getting drunk with them or having a good laugh. It's a community that I check back with several times a day, that's why I pay my $50 a year, because I want to keep this thing going!

Keep it up Patrick, I'm one of those readers that appreciates a game writer who takes their profession seriously.

Game journalists obviously have an uphill battle in earning our trust. It doesn't really seem to be an issue with a lot of you guys, like theres an acceptance that everyone knows theres a certain level of disingenuousness and corporate shilling that goes with the profession, so why give a damn, just have fun and write about games. So it's refreshing to read an article like this.

Completely agree with your mini-manifesto Patrick, and I don't think your views are limited to games journalism in any way. Trust is critical, but in short supply, in tons of different areas. Political punditry and pretty much anyone who expresses political opinions are filled to the brim with hacks, people with a completely closed mind, or people that tell you what you want to hear. Straight political journalism is filled with its own problems. Sports journalism and punditry are just as bad.

Finding out bullshitters and identifying the people, companies, and organizations you should trust with your time and money is probably the most important skill someone can have in today's Internet culture. Cutting down your follow list to only those you can trust from a variety of viewpoints is extremely valuable. I don't agree with everything the GB crew says, but I know I'm not being bullshitted, either about how they run the website or their opinions on games.

@patrickklepek: good WR. That said, I do find it weird. Giant Bomb has the closest relationship with industry people out of all of the game sites, yet still enjoys a universal on-the-level status. This isn't afforded to ANY other site on the internet other than RPS, and they have a "we dont do shit with pubs" stance. I think a great story lies there. The dichotomy between how chummy you guys are with devs/pubs and maintaining integrity versus something like RPS where it's as minimal as possible, and the fans similar/disimlar reaction between both. Anyways, I trust you. Transparency goes a long way, and maybe you guys have an advantage being mostly video based, but it gives us more "peace of mind" than a simple mission/ethics statement.

I guess I'm missing something here...this is the first I've heard of any of this. I read the first three articles Patrick linked to (not Leigh's because...you know) and get the general idea of what is being discussed, but where is the actual controversy/arguing/etc? Who was involved? Did Geoff himself say anything?

Also, what's the Gizmodo/Iphone thing being referenced?

As far as trust, I don't think I trust anyone completely to not have an agenda at least some of the time - but that said, this is the probably site I trust most for commentary on the game industry, so GB is definitely doing something right.

-----

Sad to see City of Heroes shutting down. Aside from Ultima Online it was the only MMO I ever got into.

@CrossTheAtlantic said:

@zFUBARz said:

@CrossTheAtlantic said:

Well this is a totally crazy thing to read up on at the end of the week.

I can't believe Florence lost his job over the article. For me, that's more damning and telling than anything he could have rented.

I don't think he was fired, it seems like he quit because they altered his article. I may have misinterpreted though.

Hm. It's hard to say. I haven't seen anything that said leaving was of his own accord. Just that he "stepped down" which--considering the history of this very site--just rubs me as PR spin.

EDIT: Seems some at NeoGaf don't like Ryan's "not a journalist" response, but the article is going over well, @patrickklepek. Don't let this get ya down too much.

Well as a guy who is so focused on integrity It's not hard to imagine him leaving because they forced him to give up his integrity.

@WMWA: It is refreshing that they can have a dozen videos and even a former harmonix employee on staff, and still talk very frankly about how messed up Dance Cntral 3 is. I bet the Harmonix guys will still be back to. It's not like Johnny V stopped showing up after they knocked Tron. There's dozens of examples of this.

It’s the beautify of Twitter’s intimate immediacy, and the level of interaction we have on Giant Bomb.

I appreciate everything you duders do. I really like how open and honest you guys are about anything and everything. It's refreshing when you guys give your opinions, even if you know they are not the popular ones and you guys stand behind them. Keep it up!

This is a great read: http://kotaku.com/5955223/what-went-wrong-with-silicon-knights-x+men-destiny

@Phished0ne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rbU0mzoMyw

@zFUBARz said:

@CrossTheAtlantic said:

@zFUBARz said:

@CrossTheAtlantic said:

Well this is a totally crazy thing to read up on at the end of the week.

I can't believe Florence lost his job over the article. For me, that's more damning and telling than anything he could have rented.

I don't think he was fired, it seems like he quit because they altered his article. I may have misinterpreted though.

Hm. It's hard to say. I haven't seen anything that said leaving was of his own accord. Just that he "stepped down" which--considering the history of this very site--just rubs me as PR spin.

EDIT: Seems some at NeoGaf don't like Ryan's "not a journalist" response, but the article is going over well, @patrickklepek. Don't let this get ya down too much.

Well as a guy who is so focused on integrity It's not hard to imagine him leaving because they forced him to give up his integrity.

Oh yeah, totally. Not insinuating that didn't happen or couldn't. I just hadn't read anything other, and my first reaction to such language is pretty shady. Either way, it's still a shame he got shafted the way he did.

OH MY FUCKING GOD, NIFFLAS IS MAKING ANOTHER KNYTT GAME? SOLD. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, Patrick.

@CrossTheAtlantic said:

@zFUBARz said:

@CrossTheAtlantic said:

@zFUBARz said:

@CrossTheAtlantic said:

Well this is a totally crazy thing to read up on at the end of the week.

I can't believe Florence lost his job over the article. For me, that's more damning and telling than anything he could have rented.

I don't think he was fired, it seems like he quit because they altered his article. I may have misinterpreted though.

Hm. It's hard to say. I haven't seen anything that said leaving was of his own accord. Just that he "stepped down" which--considering the history of this very site--just rubs me as PR spin.

EDIT: Seems some at NeoGaf don't like Ryan's "not a journalist" response, but the article is going over well, @patrickklepek. Don't let this get ya down too much.

Well as a guy who is so focused on integrity It's not hard to imagine him leaving because they forced him to give up his integrity.

Oh yeah, totally. Not insinuating that didn't happen or couldn't. I just hadn't read anything other, and my first reaction to such language is pretty shady. Either way, it's still a shame he got shafted the way he did.

Agreed, not saying you're not right either, I just didn't take it that way. initially

@zFUBARz: that's what I mean, though. GB has the closest friendship with people in the industry, and still retains a high trustworthy base. I feel like that's a good story worth exploring. Transparency in this industry goes a long way

Yes, I trust you, man. Keep up the good job!

I never thought about it before but I guess one of the main reasons they must have increased the size of the Raptor in Jurassic Park compared to the fossils they were finding at the time was because they actually had to fit a human into the suit.

@Zatoichi_Sanjuro said:

@Phished0ne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rbU0mzoMyw

Yeah, i found it soon after posting that edit. I cant believe people are taking him to task over that. I mean, sure its not exactly great, but its not like it effects the work he has done. Wow, he did a sponsored interview. I understand there is a tinge of a conflict of interest with the Doritos/Mtn Dew/Halo crossover. But really people? He talked about Halo for like 40 seconds. Plus he makes great points in the interview. Games DO need cross-branding like that to break into the mainstream more, its a sad but true fact. I'll admit i dont really read his stuff that much, but the things i have seen/read seem good. Does he do reviews? I dont even know. If he does reviews i would maybe take him to task some. But shit, people in the interwebs are quick to rip out someone's throat.

@zFUBARz: @WMWA: They always seem pretty frank and open with stuff they get sent and often get games of their own accord. I would be interested, though, to see how often they get stuff like this (which the seller claims Giant Bomb got but who knows) and the press kits in this thread. Not even really for transparency's sake, but mostly because these packages are ridiculous and I kinda can't believe they exist.

@Antipunk217 said:

Patrick,

I have been following, Jeff, Ryan, Brad, Alex, Rich, Greg, and others since their days on Gamespot. I read Jeff's blog before it became Giantbomb and was thrilled to hear Brad's voice on the first bombcast in which he appeared. I was happy that all of my "friends" were reuniting under a new banner and I could continue to read from people to whom I really felt connected. When Greg or Rich show up for a podcast I become overjoyed and I was thrilled when Alex became the "East coast correspondent." I quickly became a huge fan of Vinny helped in no small part by the Persona 4 endurance run. (after 100+ hours of Vinny, you are going to have an opinion).

When you came on board, I had never heard of you and I was worried. "Who is this new guy that is being injected into this perfect group of 4?" I asked myself. It only took a podcast or two for me to realize that you were serious. I fancy myself with a bit of knowledge about the game industry, but you absolutely blew me away. You seemed seasoned and for lack of better phrasing, capable of getting the scoops. I was watching "Spooking with Scoops" this week and realized that you have become part of that circle of trusted writers and opinions for me. I trust you. And damn you, just like Rich and Greg, no matter what you do, I will follow you and support you. I will click on your links and watch your streams because you have a valuable opinion that I trust.

There are "journalists" out there that feel that copying and pasting videos and stories from reddit is sufficient (I am looking at you Luke Plunkett from Kotaku) and I go out of my way not to read or click on their articles because I don't want to support that sort of trash.

So, thanks I guess are in order. I appreciate what have to say and again, I trust it and I certainly won't pretend to speak for the community, but I can't imagine that I am in the minority here. Good luck, no pressure.

Thanks to you I don't have to write a lengthy piece... my english is not that good. I just can write:

This.

Again, I like Patrick, and think he's actually among the best-of-the-best, but can you provide some transparency for Giant Bomb / CBS Interactive? What is your ethics, conflict of interest, and business conduct statement.

You ask us to trust you, which frankly I do, but what is your stance on gifts, free meals/drinks, junkets, etc.

A big component of conflict of interest (COI), is regardless of your actions, you should not exhibit a perceived conflict of interest. Perceived is the key word here. Patrick, I don't mean to pick on you, because bottom line I think you're one of the good guys, but letting your audience know Giant Bomb's professional vision on these issues would be more reassuring.

The bigger the site the more likely to be a whore the reviewer is, but they don't really have a choice in the matter. Big sites have to maintain a working relationship with the biggest and evilist of game companies to stay afloat, to get behind the scenes interviews or exclusive info that the readers want even though they are 99.9999999% PR fluff. If they are not getting those exclusives the readers are leaving to find a site that will have them. By "working relationship" I mean succulent blow jobs in the form of good reviews.

CoD: MW3 has a metacritc score of 88%, while the much superior game Yakuza 4 has a 78%.

Ughh, another games journalism conflict. But this ones important you say?

I plead with the GB staff...Please fight the urge to have to give your take on these journalism disasters. We trust you, why the fuck would people pay money to get access to your content?

I would trust you more if you would just ignore these conflicts, they happen so often now that I could care less. I just ignore twitter and stop viewing sites that feel the need to comment for the sake of views. I dont want Giant Bomb to become one of these sites. I know that this story isn't huge in the grand scheme of things, but it is a story posted on Giant Bomb, a site we've all loved over the years. Not that this is another step pushing the site towards that future, but I cringe every time I see Patrick trying to bring up these types of issues. Yes, its news worthy. But so many others abuse it's quality to attract eyeballs that I dont want Giant Bomb to get sucked into that hole with them.

@Phished0ne: It was really just the look on his face in the screenshot, in combination with the 'tweet for a free PS3' thing, that was used to illustrate the wider issue. - Rab's response.

@Zatoichi_Sanjuro said:

@Phished0ne: It was really just the look on his face in the screenshot, in combination with the 'tweet for a free PS3' thing, that was used to illustrate the wider issue. - Rab's response.

yeah, i knew that. It was more a comment about the ruthless nature of the internet than anything else. I could tell Rab was just using it for illustrative purposes. But a lot of the rest of the internet seemed like they were just waiting for the right spot to call Geoff a "corporate shill asshole". Blegh! BTW: Love your Username!

Geoff Keeley puts the GEEK in gaming, and I think the way he is, propels that stereotype. The guys here are as cynical as hell, but know when to give credit where it's due. Not too many sties can boast their audience getting drunk with them or having a good laugh. It's a community that I check back with several times a day, that's why I pay my $50 a year, because I want to keep this thing going!

The Eurogamer article to which Patrick links is actually the edited version.

But yes, Patrick, I trust you.

I trust Patrick and everyone else at Giant Bomb.

I trust Patrick about as far as I can throw him... which, actually, is probably pretty far.

Edit: the Eurogamer article is a decent piece, but the caption under the second image really bothers me, "If I was to accept any kind of bribe to promote a game, I'd take the bribe to promote the amazing Hotline Miami."

What if Geoff was sitting next to a table of Doritos and a giant poster for Hotline Miami? Would that be acceptable? Is the issue the writer really has the fact that he doesn't think game journalist are being paid to talk about the games he cares about? Why should the enthusiast press take any bribes at all?

Also, do we even know the context of the video? Is this an ad for Game Trailers with a Doritos sponsorship?

The whole second half of the article, once he gets done (justifiably) shitting on the GMAs, feels more like a "Fuck CoD and Halo, quit taking money from publishers for better review scores!" screed than anything else.

The Political Advance Wars game wasn't really that biased. The opening to each battle seemed a bit stilted but the rest was alright.

Keep the good work Scoops.

"There are plenty of Zelda-like games, but how many have a Game Boy motiff? Anodyne is."

I'll stop you right there, Patrick, and point you to Two Brothers, which hit it's Kickstarter goal. It's coming out early next year.

Hah. I loved that Yakuza review.

And I guess this shows how I only visit GB for gaming related stuff, since I had no idea that all this shit was going down. It's a good discussion to have, but damn - video game media and its readers love their drama. When it isn't one thing, it's another.

@Kerned said:

I do trust you, Patrick -- and the rest of the GB crew. That's why I come here so much. It's obvious to me that you take your job seriously, and that you consider yourself a journalist. A lot of people in your field don't seem to do either, which makes your dedication all the more appreciated. Keep it up.

I agree entirely. That's why I've followed Patrick since first discovering him on G4's Feedback from a few years back.

I somehow missed this entire Eurogamer debacle but it is INSANE that the author of the original piece stepped down from his position. What a joke. He came out and said something that needed to be said (and is entirely true) and it comes to that in just a matter of days.

More reason to keep fighting the good fight, Patrick!

@Grimluck343: That line in the caption was clearly him poking fun.

More Knytt is awesome! Coming to Vita, too!

As a lot of you have said, I do trust Patrick and the crew. It's exactly why I love this site and will continue to follow it even if I don't agree with everything. It's the most mature kind of respect someone on the internet can have. I salute you Patrick, thanks again for the good content.

@EndlessMike: really? I thought it was used to support the rest of his article.

Great stuff as always, I look forward to Worth Reading every week. I believe in GB!

oh man, I'm too old for this, didn't even why all the drama after skimming through those links, can anyone give me a TL;DR?

Call Me Maybe is insanely hard to karaoke type.

Dear Patrick: If I didn't think you took your job seriously, I wouldn't read your articles. That's the long and short of it.

Great stuff, Patrick. All the stuff you said about the journalism issue made me trust Giant Bomb that much more.

...the guys knew you from a chat room, right? Jesus Christ

An story

I really enjoyed that Yakuza story. Thank you, Scoops!

Whats the spiel at beginning all about?

Great write-up Patrick. I just wanted to say that I have a great deal of respect for you as a journalist. You're a great writer: always interesting, on point and illuminating. You and the rest of the crew have impressed me since my first visit to the site and have never disappointed since. Even when you guys make the occasional fuck-up it doesn't shake my faith in the slightest. You've earned my subscription many times over and trust is a big part of that. End spiel.

There is a lack of context to the first few paragraphs for someone not really following what happened. Anyway, I trust GB!