MGS2: Love it or Hate it?

Spoilers of MGS2 coming: Way back when I first played Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty, it was easily my least favorite MGS title. No, I wasn’t among the original fans disappointed by the misleading marketing. The PS2 generation of consoles was coming to an end, and MGS 3 was already a beloved entry into the series by the time I played the game.

So why the sour feelings towards MGS 2? At the time, I despised the Big Shell setting. Overall I felt the design was uninteresting. Every room seemed to follow the same boring design. In addition, constantly revisiting the same four or five Struts caused the entire facility to bleed together into one dull mess.

The setting wasn’t my only problem with the title; I also had issues with the story. The ridiculous and rather convoluted ending was off-putting. I left the game with enough unanswered questions to leave me disappointed with the overall experience. Lastly, the biggest fault I had with the game was Raiden. I wasn’t really bothered by the fact that he wasn’t Solid Snake. Instead, I just found him to be an annoying, whiny protagonist, and I think the game does a good job pushing that persona of him.

Recently, after seeing the first few episodes of Metal Gear Scanlion: Sons of Drewberty, I decided to replay Metal Gear Solid 2, and I was pleasantly surprised. MGS 2 is a good game. Heck, it’s a great game and a great addition to the Metal Gear Solid franchise.

Oddly enough, the setting was a major factor behind me liking the game this time around; one of the exact reasons why I disliked it as a youth. In Metal Gear Solid, the entire game takes place in the dark facilities of Shadow Moses Island. So going to the bright and vibrant rooms of Big Shell was a breath of fresh air. Furthermore, Metal Gear Solid 2 employed a variety of enjoyable and interesting gameplay scenarios. The bomb disposal segment not only introduces the different Struts surrounding Shell 1, but it also forces the player to use his/her creativity to locate the various C4 explosives. Locating Richard Ames with the directional mic is another tense moment as you must listen carefully to each hostage while keeping an eye out for a wandering guard. Finally, slicing guards to bits at the end lets you to release all your built up hate towards the enemies as an overpowered ninja-samurai!

All this is not to say the game doesn’t have its faults. The controls are still rather clunky, at least to modern standards. Raiden is still portrayed as obnoxious (yet surprisingly likeable?). The story, although intriguing, becomes an information dump at the end.

Nevertheless, I really enjoyed this game. So much, I decided to write about it. Anyways, I was wondering what other people think about it. Is it still hated among fans? Or has it become an accepted member of the franchise similar to Wind Waker?

TL;DR: What do you think of MGS 2?

4 has replaced it firmly as the dark horse of the series. I'm kinda indifferent on MGS2, I think 1,3,PW and Rising are all better than it but that's a really high bar.

I like all the main MGS games, and replaying them over can perhaps reveal new things that you either forgot, or completely missed the first (or second, or third... Or fourth) time. I also, before Ground Zeroes, to an extent went through all the MGS' from the beginning to the latest, and that can bring some problems due to its abundance of the same talk about how war is bad; it becomes excessive, and the way it's gone about through dialogue. Still, I love Metal Gear Solid, and two is no exception. I never really understood or cared for the argument of which is better or worse.

Tanker - Yay

Big Shell - Oh god, oh god, NAY

The Colonel freaking out is cool. The rest of it sucked, cool character designs and some neat boss fights but the Big Shell as a location was lifeless and lame.

I still think it's Twin Snakes > 1 > 3 > Peace Walker > Ground Zeroes > 2 > 4 > Portable Ops

I will never understand those that look down on Twin Snakes. It's the better setting and story of 1 with improved gameplay, yeah some of the voice acting wasn't good but everything else was better.

@privodotmenit: Yea Twin Snakes is awesome, although its tone is different from 1 so I can understand why people would prefer the original. Also, why don't you like 4? 4 is perhaps my favorite. I even went so far as to get the Big boss emblem/ranking in it.

My opinion of it has softened somewhat over the years, but I still think it's the worst game of the series by a good margin. I mean, there was a ton of cool little stuff in there. Shooting out guard radios, hiding in lockers, carrying bodies around, and holding up guards were all very, very cool at the time and created a level of interactivity other games haven't really replicated, before or since.

I've also come to appreciate the story a little bit more than I did at the time. When I was 16, it was hard to be anything but pissed over the bait-and-switch of replacing Snake with a bad anime cliche, but looking back, some of the things the story was dealing with were downright prescient. Censoring the internet seemed stupidly ridiculous at the time. And to be fair, the way the game handles it is still kind of stupidly ridiculous, but the issue itself got a whole lot more real over the last couple of years, so kudos to Kojima for being so far ahead of the curve.

All that said, I still think the game is very much a case of being less than the sum of its parts. The problem for me was that all that there was really ever any reason to get involved with all that interactivity I mentioned above. Hiding in lockers and shooting guards radios is cool and all, but the level design of the Big Shell isn't really conducive to a stealth game. The areas are same-y to the point of removing any creativity from finding a hiding spots, and the outside areas can be bypassed mostly by hanging over the edge and the AI being too stupid to look for you.

On top of that, the tranq gun was the single worst new "feature" ever. What's the point of making a game centered around stealth if you include a weapon that completely obviates the need for that stealth? Just shoot a guard in the neck, wait for his buddy, shoot him in the neck, and then rinse and repeat. I'm fine with including a "non-lethal" takedown option (something which to my recollection was absent in MGS1), but there needs to be some risk associated with it. Make me sneak up on a guy to choke him out rather than being able to hit him from a mile away.

My fondest memories of MGS1 were all the times when I was moving through an area and was barely able to find a place to hide before I got spotted. The tension of the "ohshitohshitohshit . . . whew" moments were great, and I felt like that was totally lacking in MGS2.

I think it goes MG1 < MG2: SS < MGS/TTS < MGS2 > MGS3 > MGS4 > Peace Walker.

Peace Walker was the worst MGS for me. It ruined the pacing with levels and base management and had a fairly useless story. I'm not counting Ground Zeroes because I don't consider it a full game.

I adore MGS2. It's my favorite of the series and might be my favorite game ever. I just love all the meta stuff going on. Though I didn't play the game when it came out so the character switch isn't something that upset me and I can understand why people can find the game off putting overall.

I fucking love it, but mainly from the outside. I don't actually enjoy playing it (but the same goes for MGS1, MGS2 and MGS3), I'm too terrible at it and just always feel like I'm fumbling with everything and terrible with the controls. It's always been the case that I love the ideas, craziness and story in Metal Gear more than actually playing them. (This is less of a problem for me in MGS4, and I fucking love Ground Zeroes' gameplay)

MGS2 is an amazing game, with all of its little details and its ridiculousness.

Played it when pretty much all the twists got spoiled for me so I didn't go into it with a fresh experience but I still thoroughly enjoyed it. It's probably my least favourite of the main MGS games but it's still pretty great.

It's about attempts to control the flow of information, made over a decade before Assange and Snowden. The fact that a game can be so thematically relevant so long after its release is pretty damn respectable.

I thought it was fun to play at the time, but now after the refresher in Metal Gear Scanlon I have to say that the story is really bad in a lot of ways and Kojima at the time was not a good writer or director.

I don't know how the latest ones have been but most the dialogue and story in this, as well as the pacing, is ridiculous. You go the last 30 minutes in the game with 2 supposedly ULTRA twists that make no sense, and since they haven't been foreshadowed leave exactly zero impression. The Ocelot-thinks-S3-is-this and the Actual-S3 twists. Those especially were dumb. ALL of the Rose-Raiden dialogue is the worst I've heard in a game. Period. Otacon's SUDDENLY VERY DARK for no reason backstory too. Cringed hard when I saw it.

Now if later games somehow explain them more that is only a sign of Kojimas ability to get himself out of a corner after the fact, in my opinion.

I was certain 4 was my favourite in the series after playing through all the games in 2008. But after replaying through 4 a couple of months back, I think 2 is easily the best game in the series. I still love all of them though. (Peace Walker not included.)

@honkalot: Yea Otacon's story was still laughable to me. It just felt out of left field. Sure it is a tragic back story and I would be more serious about it were it to happen to someone in real life, but the way it just happens in the game makes it feel out of place.

MGS2 was my introduction to the series, and I bought it because a friend of mine told me Vamp's backstory and finished with "... and there's a lot of other weird shit in there."

Suffice it to say, even if the gameplay hasn't aged well I still love it for being a complete mindfuck by the end. I "discovered" MGS around the time I was getting real deep into David Lynch so that could be another reason I remember it fondly.

This is an impossible question to answer. MGS 2 goes beyond words like love and hate. Parts are amazing, other parts are some of the dumbest things ever put in a video game.

Love it.

Metal Gear Solid 2 is the best game of the series for me and also one of the greatest games of all time. Just thinking about it makes me feel fuzzy.

MGS2 came out around the launch of the PS2. On top of that they were really happy with showing how amazing some of the stuff they were doing was (like melting ice). It was the system seller for the PS2 at the time that set the stage for what PS2 was and would be. It's hard to remember, but it was truly an amazing time in games. Dare I say- almost magical.

I didn't get to play it until I got back from a war, but it was the reason I bought my first PS2 (I bought like 3 of them over the course of the PS2 because of some loading issues that that console would have after a couple years of use).

The opening is, and probably always will be, pretty good. It was what I would have expected from Metal Gear Solid and to top it off you could see first hand all that cool shit they constantly talked about. But then it just suddenly stops...

Then apparently the real game begins and you get into the shell thing (which I didn't have a problem with the setting myself). You then find you're playing this whiny nobody, who isn't solid snake, and even worse he's annoying as crap.

I hated it at the time and didn't finish it until a year or two later when I went back to it- I thought it was ok at the time when I finally finished it. I even told people it wasn't that good of a game because of my disappointment in such a minute fact about that game. I ended up selling my PS2 copy (which was the first game I had gotten for my PS2). So stupid.

It wasn't until I played the game again this year that I actually appreciated what Kojima did in that game. It's actually quite genius and it's a shame my own stupidity clouded an otherwise brilliant idea. It defied all expectations and I don't really recall him ever saying you would play Solid Snake. Beyond showing Snake in all the preview footage (even in areas where you don't play him) they never really specifically talked about the story or who the protagonist would be. Most the coverage of the game, that I remember, was about the amazing graphics the game has and all the cool physics shit they could do now.

Maybe I just needed to be more removed from it or something, but it was much more effective on me now then it was at the time. I still think MGS3 is better (I really like all the stupid systems in that game), but MGS2 story is a real mind fuck and I love it. The game play was also better than the first.

After I finish playing all the MGS games again (and 4 for the first time) I think I'm gonna play the first 3 or 4 Splinter Cell games. People gave that game a lot of shit, but I loved it. It was the more serious spy game to Metal Gears insanity. I could've sworn there's a glib reference to the other series in one of these games, but I don't remember where it is. It's possible that didn't actually happen and I'm remembering something wrong.

Msg 2 is my favorite game ever for a plethora of reasons.At first I disliked the bait and switch with raiden,but over time as I matured got to play through the game dozens of times,I see what Kojima was really trying to do with it. The marketing was purposely misleading and many of the story points didn't make any sense so players could focus more on the subtext.theres a great video on YouTube that explains MGS 2 perfectly called MGS 2 Critical Closeup,which I would post here if I wasn't on my ipad

@cornbredx: There have been multiple references to Splinter Cell in Metal Gear but the biggest one was in the reveal trailer for MGS4 at E3 2005

@corevi: Thanks. I am glad to have that acknowledged at least. I was starting to think I imagined it. I am pretty sure the first reference then (if it was MGS that did it) was in MGS 3. I feel really positive about that. I wonder if they'll catch it when they play through it on the site. =)

MGS2 is really good.

it just doesnt touch 3. thats right jeff! I said it!

@cornbredx: Snake vs Monkey in MGS3 namedropped Sam Fischer and Gabe Logan.

@corevi: There was a more direct reference in the game than that. I just remember the character talking on the radio (I guess it was the MGS series that did it; that actually makes the most sense given the fourth wall breaking the game does on a whim) about that other spy and making vague references to another spy and how he is better than that guy. I don't remember the exact line but it was clearly talking about (I guess) Sam Fisher.

@cornbredx: Pretty sure we are talking bout the same thing.

Hate it or love it, the underdog's on top.

I love MGS2. A classic game, and still impressive in its attention to detail.

@corevi: Ya, you're probably right. That's most likely what I was thinking about. Thanks again! That's awesome haha

Edit: I should add I didn't realize they were referencing Syphon Filter there until you brought up that they mentioned Gabe Logan, too. That's great. What a great pull.

MGS2 is still (by far) the weakest of the numbered games, imo. It has the lamest lead character (by a huge margin), the most annoying supporting character (Rose), the weakest bosses, and the least interesting setting (Big Shell).

I don't care if he becomes interesting later on, Raiden is whiny little bitch in MGS2, and it ruins the experience. The supporting cast in the Big Shell outside of Pliskin and Octocon is lame (especially Rosemary). No Noami, Mei Ling, Meryl, Boss, Eva... all of whom are more interesting than anyone in MGS2 aside from Pliskin and Octocon.

Finally, the boss characters/fights are a huge step down in MGS2. Ocelot, Fox, Mantis, Raven, Wolf >>>>>>> a fat guy on roller skates, a generic vampire (so original!), and a woman who just stands around and whines that she can't die. Have they ever even attempted to explain why Fatman is wearing roller skates yet? The Cobra unit in MGS3 (the End!) was better as well.

Keeping in mind that the later games have graphical and gameplay advantages, I would say Guns of the Patriots > Snake Eater > MGS1 > Sons of Liberty. MGS1 might be ranked higher if it had the graphical and gameplay updates of the later games. MGS2 would not.

Love the heck out of it. Raiden is basically an intolerable character for the whole game, as is Rose, but at the end everything comes together in this cluster-heck of stuff and it's magnificent. I played through the game in one sitting when I was 14 and it was pretty life-changing. When you're up at 4am, that ending seems really profound, heh

love it. Jeff is right. 2 and 4 are the best.

It's my favorite of the series because it's one of the most interesting, fascinating, and thought provoking games ever made to me.

Just the game's mere existence is a mind fuck. You'll of course understand what I mean if you've played it.

Also, it seriously has THE scariest moment in a game to me. You know what I'm talking about.

Rose greatly annoys me, but that's my only complaint.

I love it. I hate it. It was such an impressive, incredible game that disappointed and confused me so much. The work and all the small things add up to something amazing. The gameplay expanded in so many great ways. Maybe it's the best game of all time. Even after all these years, after beating it close to 20 times, I still have a weird perspective on it. In hindsight, I can appreciate it more and more.

I just prefer thinking about Snake Eater. It doesn't confuse my heart and soul.

It's the best one. Snake Eater is so overrated IMO.

I played both 2&3 this year, and i played 3 first because my friend had it on his playstation. After playing both of those games i felt so strongly for 3. Not so much for 2, i didn't really see a conclusion when i completed it, and the whole first part of the game with the bombs was really annoying. then when i saw Dan&Drew play through it, i began to think slightly higher of it and now when i think back my opinion is that 2 was the best. 3 was simple in terms of story when you put it besides 2, or at least it felt that way. 2 was so confusing and it took me a long time to even begin to understand what the hell happened on that shell.

MGS2 is an achievement in video game story telling whether you like the actual story or not, I think. I think it makes Bioshock look a little amateurish.

@bceagles128: I don't like the idea that MGS2 is worst because Raiden isn't cool. Raiden has a very irritating and immature personality - especially in contrast to Pliskin. Here's a quote from a really interesting MGS2 analysis you can find in full here: http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/

"MGS2 affirmed Raiden’s connection to the player when it identified him as a soldier raised on videogames. He had experienced the events of MGS1 and the Tanker Chapter through military Virtual Reality training, and he outright told his C. O. that he felt “like some kind of legendary mercenary.”MGS2 supported this idea visually; scenes from MGS1 played alongside Raiden’s defense of his VR training. Like the player, Raiden had loved MGS1 and Solid Snake.

The player could no longer control Solid Snake, but he expected his new actor to act like Solid Snake. From within the narrative, Raiden shared the player’s expectations of himself as an actor."

Raiden himself idolizes Snake and is painfully aware of his own shortcomings in comparison. When Snake is presented to Raiden as Pliskin, Raiden finds himself feeling jealous and defensive. It isn't until Raiden realizes that Pliskin is his personal hero, Solid Snake, that he begins to act submissively. Like the player, Raiden wants to attach himself and defer to Snake as much as possible. Even in the end of the game, Raiden expresses his wish to follow Solid Snake and (I am assuming this is what Raiden wanted, he never explicitly says it) to join Philanthropy.

Raiden isn't a character I feel I can look up to, or that I'd want to drink a beer with. But I love that Kojima was willing to take that risk to tie the narrative and the player experience together like that.

@meissnerd: In what way? The narrative structures are so different between those two games. Metal Gear Solid isn't what it is without the heavily directed cutscenes and cutscenes aren't where you get the bulk of the story in Bioshock. Bioshock is also a lot more focused on the backstory of Rapture than the main character's journey I think.

I find it impossible to actually play through MGS2 and 3 myself. I have absolutely no problem playing 1, 4, or GZ (still need to get around to PW), but I've only made it past the first few hours of 2 and 3 before getting really frustrated by something (usually the controls or camera) and stopping. It's a shame really, because having watched both of them be played I think they're really spectacular games in terms of their depth and the way they cover a lot of interesting themes. They were also the peak of Kojima's insanity, with MGS4 marking a slightly more grounded approach to the narrative. Hopefully one day I'll be able to overcome my own personal grievances and enjoy the experience of playing them the whole way through.

I've never played it myself but as far as the actual gameplay and setting is concerned I'm a little disappointed in how small and drab it is.

I was actually surprised at how much fun I had playing Mgs2. I was one of those people whose first metal gear game was 4. After that I very much disliked the gameplay of the series. Maybe it was me watching Metal gear scanlon, but I really came around on it.

As somebody that's been steadily playing through the series this year, I like Metal Gear Solid 2 but it's EASILY the worst of the original three Solid games. Both of the other games completely blow it out of the water in terms of memorable characters and set-pieces, and it has the dumbest "guess the enemy sight-lines" stealth gameplay of the three.

3 > 1 > 2

I would spend an absurd amount of time messing around in the tanker again.

I don't want to play the Big Shell ever again. Not because of Raiden. I never had any problem with the switch of character. The Big Shell is just not very interesting of a location and the story itself isn't all that great.

Anyway, Metal Gear Solid 3 is still by far the best in the franchise.

@themanwithnoplan: Is Metal Gear Scanlon worth watching? I'm not a premium member but I'm so tempted to watch that series they're doing. I've played and love the MGS games.

I've come to love it, but man was it aggravating to play if you weren't in the right state of mind.

Naked Raiden?!

Probably the greatest game ever made.

I really like MGS 2. It's probably my favourite game in the series right now. But I am expecting MGS V to overtake that easily based on what i've played in Ground Zeroes.