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#1 Posted by Rainbowkisses (472 posts) -

Abercrombie and Fitch CEO, Mike Jeffries, recently explained the reason that they don't have XL clothing for women is because it would hurt their public image.

“We hire good-looking people in our stores. Because good-looking people attract other good-looking people, and we want to market to cool, good-looking people. We don't market to anyone other than that."

This has understandably caused a lot of backlash. Many people rightfully have criticized their discrimination against larger women. Some have gone a little too far though and made ad hominem attacks on Mike Jeffries, mocking his own looks. The hypocrisy of this doesn't seem to occur to them.

Good intentions led to even more mind boggling decisions when change.org set up a petition to have Jeffries apologize and for them to make plus size women's clothing. Why you would want to give money to the very people who insult you is beyond me.

Despite me taking cheap shots at every person I can, I am glad this has led to a backlash. We are straying away from judging people by a narrow definition of beauty.

Do you think that fat shaming is a significant problem in Western Culture? (or if you're not from the West, in your culture) Do you think Jeffries comment is harmless, or do companies like these lead to people having insecurities about their personal body image?

#3 Posted by BeachThunder (11809 posts) -

You know, he kind of looks like your avatar. Especially that smile.

#4 Edited by President_Barackbar (3448 posts) -

I absolutely think fat shaming is a problem in the US. Furthermore, I refuse to shop at any store like Abercrombie & Fitch because they operate on policies like this. If you want to cater to a vapid clientele who find the idea of big people in their store hideous, don't be surprised when reasonable people object.

#5 Edited by TheCreamFilling (1225 posts) -

Just make a second store targeted at only fat people, call it Big Jeffries's.

#6 Edited by Bocam (3706 posts) -

it does have XL and XXL men's sizes, but only for football players and wrestlers, said Lewis.

What does this even mean?

#7 Edited by Demoskinos (14734 posts) -

Only douchebags wear A&F anyways. So...he is in good company. Then again at least he was brutally honest about it instead of giving some politician like answer. Although that still doesn't excuse being a jerk but at least he is an honest jerk.

#8 Posted by Rainbowkisses (472 posts) -

@bocam said:

it does have XL and XXL men's sizes, but only for football players and wrestlers, said Lewis.

What does this even mean?

Maybe it's cut in a certain way that it won't fit overweight men. It may have broad shoulders but the torso is cut too thin for overweight men. I'm just guessing though.

#9 Edited by WalkerD (462 posts) -

There are stores specifically for overweight people. I don't see why they need to be catered to in a store that isn't even for them.

@president_barackbar said:

I absolutely think fat shaming is a problem in the US. Furthermore, I refuse to shop at any store like Abercrombie & Fitch because they operate on policies like this. If you want to cater to a vapid clientele who find the idea of big people in their store hideous, don't be surprised when reasonable people object.

Is there a reason people shouldn't be ashamed of being fat? Fat is an indicator of poor diet and lack of exercise. Terms like "fat shaming" are only encouraging young fat people/children that it's okay and that they should be okay with their bad habits. Sure you're an asshole if you go around making fun of fat people, but we shouldn't be supporting an unhealthy lifestyle either.

#10 Posted by outerabiz (661 posts) -

I don't really care what he says or thinks. But i'll be sure to actively avoid supporting the brand.

#11 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

I absolutely think fat shaming is a problem in the US. Furthermore, I refuse to shop at any store like Abercrombie & Fitch because they operate on policies like this. If you want to cater to a vapid clientele who find the idea of big people in their store hideous, don't be surprised when reasonable people object.

I dunno about fat shaming being a problem, because being fat is a bigger problem in the US. I think it'd be cool if more places made it hard to find clothing in "fat sizes" so long as they catered to healthy sizes and not just scrawny twigs.

Also if they could cater to scrawny twigs more often so I don't need to get custom fitted clothing just to look like I'm wearing my clothes instead of drowning in them, that'd be nice.

Never understood the concept of "leave her alone" about fat girls. Do some fuckin' PT, eat healthier, and boom. You have a body that isn't in the process of killing itself. People shouldn't act like being unhealthy is okay.

#12 Posted by Blu3V3nom07 (4190 posts) -

Just make a second store targeted at only fat people, call it Big Jeffries's.

"Remember. Big Jeffrie always says: DROP 'EM!"

#13 Posted by Slag (4226 posts) -

And that Abercrombie & Fitch believes/does this surprises who exactly?

It's not like this is new behavior for them, frankly it's tame compared to their usual shenanigans over the past decade+.

#14 Edited by PeasantAbuse (5138 posts) -

Don't all companies have target audiences? I don't see the issue here.

But yeah, that dude looks like he belongs on a "has science gone too far?" ad.

#15 Edited by mlarrabee (2916 posts) -

Is Mike Jeffries a self absorbed dick? Looks like it.

Should we continue enabling ourselves and our fellow Americans as the consumers of the largest and most unhealthy food portions on the planet? No, not really.

Should a petition be signed to force a privately-held company to sell a certain product? Absolutely not.

I've never been inside of an A&F, and that was and is intentional. "Fat-shaming" is cruel. Offering the lie of, "Oh, no, it's just genetics, the fact that we eat an incredible amount has nothing to do with it," is just as cruel. And it has nothing to do with beauty; it's called "a healthy weight" for a reason. With national healthcare, it becomes not only a matter of concern for others' wellbeing but one of ensuring tax dollars aren't being wasted through anyone's lack of self control.

http://www.examiner.com/article/excessive-portion-sizes-help-to-make-america-the-fattest-country-the-world

#16 Edited by DonutFever (3550 posts) -

@rainbowkisses said:

This might be really fucked up of me, but I think once somebody criticizes somebody else based on appearances, it's totally open season for people to treat the first person the same way.

In the first scenario, somebody is judging another on mostly unimportant traits which may or may not even be "their fault". In the second, somebody is pointing out the first person's hypocrisy by saying that they have the same flaws that seem to bother them so much.

#19 Posted by Slag (4226 posts) -

@mordeaniischaos said:

Never understood the concept of "leave her alone" about fat girls. Do some fuckin' PT, eat healthier, and boom. You have a body that isn't in the process of killing itself. People shouldn't act like being unhealthy is okay.

If it was that simple to solve there would be a lot less fat people in the US and there wouldn't be a gazillion weight loss diets, exercise plans and remedies on the market. Some people just don't get lucky in terms of genetics.

I suspect there is a uniquely American additional problem related to additives in our foods and the amount of hours we sit during a day (at work, lesiure and commuting) which makes it more of a problem here than some other places.

In any event "shaming" someone for struggling to maintain a healthy weight is not an effective to make that happen for them. If anything it generally makes it worse as it can depress the overweight individual, robbing them of the willpower they need to try to lose that weight. Or worse yet helps cause disorders like Bulimia and Anorexia. Positive reinforcement works a lot better than negative, especially when it comes to women in my experience.

#20 Edited by mlarrabee (2916 posts) -

@icemael: How is beauty better than ugliness? How is one random, unearned outcome better than another random, unearned outcome?

@slag: Yes, some people are genetically unlucky. Being dealt a bad hand sucks. Yes, there are a hundred or so people for whom exercise and proper diet will do nothing. But the vast majority of overweight people, including those who are genetically disposed to obesity, is perfectly capable of overcoming it. Is it difficult? Absolutely. Is it possible? Again, absolutely. I think people are too divided between those who try to shame overweight people into getting healthy and those who treat obesity as perfectly acceptable. I agree that we need more positive reinforcement, but I think we need less negative (shame) and less positive in the wrong direction (acceptance).

#21 Edited by crusader8463 (14419 posts) -

Doesn't surprise me. Hating on fat people is the new cool thing these last few years. Like when they first started to ban public smoking everywhere hating on smokers and treating them like scum was the ok/fun thing. With the news focusing on how fat everyone is supposed to be all the time that's the new thing.

#22 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5814 posts) -

I support their decision to sell whatever the fuck they want.

#23 Posted by Turbyne (98 posts) -

That dude is fucking scary looking. They can keep their overpriced clothing I ain't never seen that shit over here.

Also anyone supporting what the dude says in this thread can fuck themselves. We're supposed to be moving forward as a society.

Yo man imma open up a clothing store where we don't service gay or black people.

#24 Edited by Sinusoidal (1391 posts) -

Bring on the fat shaming! I would like to see obesity receive the same vilification treatment that cigarettes have. Heart disease kills way more people than lung cancer. A woman lights up a cigarette next to her child and she's the disgusting spawn of satan. She brings that same child to McDonald's and no one bats an eyelash.

#25 Posted by Istealdreams (148 posts) -

@mordeaniischaos: sounds like you need to do some PT and eat healthier so you can fit in those clothes you're swimming in.

#26 Edited by mpgeist (597 posts) -

I think this CEO is an idiot, but I don't get why people go around telling private enterprise what they can and can't sell. Why don't they go to Lane Bryant or something? Why even buy from a store that hates you, when you have options?

#27 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

@istealdreams said:

@mordeaniischaos: sounds like you need to do some PT and eat healthier so you can fit in those clothes you're swimming in.

That and eat a lot of.... taco lasagna. It's not so much healthier as more. I eat pretty healthy in terms of what I eat, but I have been struggling a lot with my intake because of my appetite. I basically force/choke down food to get close to a healthy calorie intake. Turns out, eating can be harder than not eating sometimes.

Honestly though, I'm not that underweight, but I am fairly scrawny and rather tall. I just need to gain about 10 pounds so they don't throw me on double rations at boot camp (basically a free "puke your guts out" ticket).

#28 Edited by Daveyo520 (6678 posts) -

Maybe acceptance of a preventable health condition is the problem?

#29 Edited by ShadowConqueror (3050 posts) -

They're catering to a specific demographic. So what?

#30 Posted by WalkerD (462 posts) -

@turbyne: Your logic is asinine. Fat people can come into an A&F and buy whatever they want, it's just not going to fit them. They aren't turning away overweight dudes at the door. This whole debacle is ridiculous, as is any that demands a business or individual cater to their needs as if the universe centers around them.

#31 Posted by Vinny_Says (5700 posts) -

Welcome to america bitch!

It's called capitalism, deal with it. I don't see how this company can be forced to sell something because people signed a petition.

#32 Edited by Jams (2960 posts) -

I got fat shamed a lot in high school (10+ years back). One guy was being relentless on me one particular day. After a while I had enough and punched him in the gut so hard he fell over and started hyperventilating. After a couple of minutes he got up and was completely flabbergasted and asked me why I punched him. I found that pretty funny.

He stopped trying to pick on me after that. And they say violence doesn't solve anything?

I've been fighting people who've tried to shame me since I was in kindergarten (stopped after high school luckily and internet tough guys after that). Let me tell you guys, fat shaming or shaming of any kind isn't a healthy thing to do. Especially for the one doing it because karma may come in the form of a fist to you fucking face or worse. Some kid's going to shoot up a school because of you.

So please stop the shaming. Just because somebody can change their problem doesn't make it okay to bully that person into doing it.

-Signed
You whore mothers pimp daddy

#33 Posted by Slag (4226 posts) -

@mlarrabee: I think we're basically on the same page.

I'm completely fine with encouraging people to be healthy in a positive manner, I mean who isn't? And I don't think if someone is 5'2" and 400 lbs that they should be told it's ok or "big and beautiful" or whatever, because there is a significant health risk carrying that kind of excessive weight around on that kind of frame.

But when it comes to women's body issues, the fat shaming stuff is way out of control. Women get called fat for too often being a reasonably healthy weight far too often. Fat shaming is just another name and excuse for bullying unfortunately. It's basically an almost entirely separate issue from the obesity/diabetes epidemic.

but bottom line is fat shaming is just ineffective at solving the obesity problem. All it does it make people feel bad, which for obese people trying to get healthy makes them more susceptible to falling off the healthy living wagon.

I do think it's a lot tougher than you may think for people to lose that kind of weight and keep it off once they've put it on than you may realize. Obesity does weird things to a person's metabolism especially as you age.

#34 Edited by audioBusting (1496 posts) -

When did Abercrombie & Fitch become an authority on body image? This is pretty inconsequential.

#36 Posted by President_Barackbar (3448 posts) -

@mordeaniischaos: @walkerd: I think both of you grossly misunderstand people with weight problems. Your logic is no different than people who claim all poor people are poor because they don't want to work. Being overweight can be due to many different factors other than just poor diet and lack of exercise. Even people who are overweight because of poor diet and lack of exercise don't need to be "shamed." There's nothing wrong with trying to help someone who is unhealthy, but shaming still isn't the right way to accomplish that. If I thought you drank too much, I think you'd prefer if I was supportive over me calling you a drunk loser and a douchebag. Ignorant statements like the ones you both made contribute to insecurity and depression in people who are overweight.

#37 Edited by Daveyo520 (6678 posts) -

@turbyne: Ahem, rule number 1: Don't be a dick.

#38 Edited by Turbyne (98 posts) -

@turbyne: Ahem., rule number 1: Don't be a dick.

Just because he took three minutes to pick out some broader words to make him self seems more intelligent does not mean he wasn't being one either. Shit this thread doesn't even have equality in it. I'm out homie.

#39 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

So does that mean if you apply at their store and get rejected you can sue for discrimination?

#40 Edited by casper_ (903 posts) -

is plus sized male clothing a thing? or is there some other term for that? does abercrombie carry that?

mainly i'm wondering whether the company is discriminating against "larger women" or larger people in general.

#41 Edited by Daveyo520 (6678 posts) -

@the_laughing_man: I don't think looks are a protected status. But then again I have not looked in a while. Checked, it isn't. They could try to pull it off as being not hired for a disability though.

@casper_: Big and Tall I guess.

@turbyne: Just don't go around calling people cockfaces is all.

#42 Posted by laserbolts (5317 posts) -

So I went from not buying abercrombie and fitch to not buying abercrombie and fitch. Great.

#43 Edited by Carousel (418 posts) -

no fatties

#44 Edited by President_Barackbar (3448 posts) -

@the_laughing_man: You absolutely COULD, the only problem is you need pretty iron clad proof that the reason they didn't hire you was because of your appearance, which you would never get. All the hiring manager has to say is you weren't right for the job or something.

@sinusoidal: There is a difference between fat shaming and shaming people who smoke. No one is genetically predisposed to smoking. Smoking is 100% a choice of an individual. Not everyone is overweight because of their choice. That isn't to say there AREN'T people who make bad choices who are overweight.

#45 Posted by rebgav (1429 posts) -

There is literally no-one who wants to shop at Abercrombie & Fitch who isn't a total cunt, so why care?

#46 Edited by WalkerD (462 posts) -

@president_barackbar: I'm not supporting "shaming". I'm against the use of the term itself because of how it's used. For instance in the original post of this thread it's used to accuse a business of shaming fat people because it doesn't sell clothing for them. Unless we can get to a point where people can use the term properly, it shouldn't be used at all. Unless someone has a legitimate issue that prevents them from dropping the weight, they shouldn't be told they're being "fat shamed" every time someone suggests they eat better or get some fucking exercise. It's a total bummer that people with genetic disorders that cause them to be overweight are lumped in with people who are overweight out of their own inability to better themselves, but obesity is too big of a problem in the United States to start giving people another excuse to keep living that way.

Edit: Also none of those puns were intended.

#47 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11595 posts) -

Well... he's not wrong. The kind of people who would voluntarily buy clothing from Abercrombie are the kind of people who would be superficial enough to make their clothing choices based on any sort of image exuded by the brand. Like my 13 year old brother, though I believe he prefers Aeropostale and Hollister.

#48 Posted by Animasta (14667 posts) -

has anyone said what fat means in this context? I mean not wanting to make clothes for the grossly obese (350 over I guess) is one thing, but if it's like over 200 and you're out of here, that's kinda messed up.

#49 Posted by Muttinus_Rump (814 posts) -

Fair enough, it's a private company.

Cannot stand this fat acceptance movement, stop telling people it's OK to be overweight.