How to Prevent School Shootings - Church & State

Do you mean that the morals that a christian has is based on fear? And it's this fear that would prevent such murder? If so, that premise is flawed.

Firstly because a christian does NOT posess some kind of special ability or some kind of special moral that non-christians do not have. They are just as moral as anybody else, Anders Breivik is one example, the guy that killed a bunch of kids in Norway. He was christian but did kill.

Secondly fear of consequenses does not equal to less crime. The death sentence does not lower crime for example, people still comitt crime even though they can go to jail. So even if you were scared shitless of God, this would not mean that you are a saint and would never hurt another human.

People are always people. I reckon it's mental stability that govern wether or not you will do a school shooting, not your religion.

@Conformunist: Counter: One who follows the above follows the above. One who doesn't, doesn't. If they do, then murder is NOT an option.

@Drebin_893: What about him? Looks like he broke a fundamental law doesn't it? SHABOOSH

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

Oh come on. Silly that its you posting this.

This means you're happy to see me fire like a rocket back onto the scene right? ;)

For those who are missing the point. The point is simple. In fact it shouldn't have to be explained. A follower of Christ follows the commandment not to kill. Had this kid been following that commandment, he would not have done what he did. Instead of praying for his enemies, he murdered them. Instead of quoting this: “There is a saying, ‘Love your friends and hate your enemies.’ But I say: Love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way you will be acting as true sons of your Father in heaven. For He gives His sunlight to both the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust too. If you love only those who love you, what good is that? Even scoundrels do that much. If you are friendly only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even the heathen do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.” – Luke 10:25-37

He, reportedly, wrote this:

"In a time long since, a time of repent, The Renaissance. In a quaint lonely town, sits a man with a frown. No job. No family. No crown. His luck had run out. Lost and alone. The streets were his home. His thoughts would solely consist of “why do we exist?” His only company to confide in was the vermin in the street. He longed for only one thing, the world to bow at his feet. They too should feel his secret fear. The dismal drear. His pain had made him sincere. He was better than the rest, all those ones he detests, within their castles, so vain. Selfish and conceited. They couldn’t care less about the peasents they mistreated. They were in their own world, it was a joyous one too. That castle, she stood just to do all she could to keep the peasents at bay, not the enemy away. They had no enemies in their filthy orgy. And in her, the castles every story, was just another chamber of Lucifer’s Laboratory. The world is a sandbox for all the wretched sinners. They simply create what they want and make themselves the winners. But the true winner, he has nothing at all. Enduring the pain of waiting for that castle to fall. Through his good deeds, the rats and the fleas. He will have for what he pleads, through the eradication of disease. So, to the castle he proceeds, like an ominous breeze through the trees. “Stay back!” The Guards screamed as they were thrown to their knees. “Oh God, have mercy, please!” The castle, she gasped and then so imprisoned her breath, to the shallow confines of her fragile chest. I’m on the lamb but I ain’t no sheep. I am Death. And you have always been the sod. So repulsive and so odd. You never even deserved the presence of God, and yet, I am here. Around your cradle I plod. Came on foot, without shod. How improper, how rude. However, they shall not mind the mud on my feet if there is blood on your sheet. Now! Feel death, not just mocking you. Not just stalking you but inside of you. Wriggle and writhe. Feel smaller beneath my might. Seizure in the Pestilence that is my scythe. Die, all of you."

Crime and murder rates are at an all time low. Just saying.

You want to prevent school shootings? Stop the bullying. It's that simple.

Trollin' all day I see

@astrotriforce said:

It only won't end well if people make it not end well. Which I agree with you, that will probably be the case since decency, respect, and intelligence left Giantbomb ages ago, but a man can try.

You see, this is the problem with everything you're posted in this thread - the undercurrent of holier-than-though arrogance that runs through it all.

You don't need the Bible to be a good person. You don't need to worship a god to know basic right from wrong or have a moral compass. Morals have existed for far longer than Judaism, to say nothing of the two major religions that inspired it (Christianity and Islam, just in case you were wondering). I mean really, the audacity of you telling us that society is in moral decay and prove you wrong that making us all God-fearing Christians again is the only way to fix it, and then turning around and accusing us of lacking respect and intelligence when we rightfully call you out on this.

Jesus works for you? Great to hear. But guess what? We don't care.

Is this for realsies?

Those are not Christian values. Those are regular, everyday people values. They're not exclusive to Christianity, and I can't stand it when people assume they are.

@ccampb89: Fair enough. I'm glad you found something that works for you.

@ccampb89: That's because you're being rational. Major brownie points.

@Simplexity: Because they have respect for others. Their morals are based around respect, honor and dignity. No where did I say everyone has to follow the Bible, I said that those who do are less likely to kill others, because they are FORBIDDEN to do so. For many reasons.

@VipeR: No. You are cherry-picking the word fear, while ignoring the rest. It's simple, murder is against God's rules. Period. A Christian follows God's rules. And they do their best not to break them. Period.

@astrotriforce:

No one will ever be able to change your mind; but you are very, very wrong.

It isn't worth my time to explain why, and you'll find it's blatantly obvious that you're wrong to most people in this thread.

@astrotriforce: Oh, you're one of those that says that they'll only respond to convincing arguments, ignores all the well-thought out posts, and then just responds to the people that post the flippant one-liners, rather than touching on the interesting points people have raised in this thread. Good. I guess I can leave now, then.

You're a joke, and you do more harm for your religion than good with threads like these.

@Wrighteous86 said:

You're a joke, and you do more harm for your religion than good with threads like these.

@astrotriforce said:

@Conformunist: Counter: One who follows the above follows the above. One who doesn't, doesn't. If they do, then murder is NOT an option.

Yeah, like all those good Christian folk who murder people because 'God' spoke to them.

@Wrighteous86: Actually more like I can't be bothered to reply to each and every post since I got better stuff to do and I'm outnumbered 100 to 1 so I gotta pick and choose my replys. I'll give you a raincheck and reply soon to what you wrote.

@astrotriforce:

Wow, ALL Christians follow God's rules? Okay, if this was a troll thread, 8/10. I docked you 2 points for using religion. 8 points for making me so fucking mad that if I were to conjure up a serious reply I'd surely be banned. Peace, fuck this thread.

@Jace said:

@astrotriforce:

No one will ever be able to change your mind; but you are very, very wrong.

It isn't worth my time to explain why, and you'll find it's blatantly obvious that you're wrong to most people in this thread.

Then it shouldn't have been worth your time to make a stupid post like this. "Hey your wrong, but I don't want to tell you why." The fact that you can call a subjective view of Christianity and it's affect on others as "wrong" is blatantly ignorant and short-sighted. Pretty much you contradicted yourself.

@Wrighteous86 said:

@astrotriforce: Oh, you're one of those that says that they'll only respond to convincing arguments, ignore all the well-thought out posts, and then just respond to the people that post the flippant one-liners, rather than touching on the interesting points people have raised in this thread. Good. I guess I can leave now, then.

You're a joke, and you do more harm for your religion than good with threads like these.

There's nothing wrong with rejecting posts that would either cause him to flame or that are ignorant enough against his original post. It's called selective-response, and is something everyone should practice. there are far worse ways to represent your religion, and this man (woman?) is far from that. Extreme views of absolution (like your last sentence) do more harm to your small representation in this forum than good.

I don't understand why you would post this on here. There's nothing ignorant people like more than to bash concepts that they would normally find morally correct simply because they see it coming from the bible. At the same time though, your post is fairly misleading with the title as well as misinterpretations of fearing God and such, which is the same reason why anyone could just come into this thread and say "You're wrong! CRUSADES!".

So basically, the fact that the original poster even posted this means I know he/she needs to grow up a little and stop being so blinded by his/her beliefs. Though, the same could also be said for all the immature children that have responded to this person. It is actually kind of beautiful, this thread. It encompasses everything that is wrong with society and the world today. There is one side of blind people who seem to lack the ability of questioning anything, especially faith, while the other side goes on living the entirety of life as a rebellious teenager without the ability to actually discuss topics, realize the mind blowing fact that a coin has two sides, and use the realization of perspectives to properly asses and analyze anything.

@astrotriforce: You and your fucked up religion are a stain on humanity's track record.

Christopher Hitchens Richard Dawkins and the Atheist Experience. Go look that shit up you brainwashed monkey.

Like religion has anything to do with this shit. Fucking idiots.

@nori: Entirely true, don't blame the tools, blame the man using them. But seriously, having guns be this easily accessible only makes school shootings and the like less of a hassle for the perpetrator. banning guns won't do shit agains't any organized crime, but at least you might get it out of the hands of a bullied 14 year old.

@astrotriforce said:

It only won't end well if people make it not end well. Which I agree with you, that will probably be the case since decency, respect, and intelligence left Giantbomb ages ago, but a man can try.

One could easily say that happened to most organized religions too.

@TobbRobb said:

@nori: Entirely true, don't blame the tools, blame the man using them. But seriously, having guns be this easily accessible only makes school shootings and the like less of a hassle for the perpetrator. banning guns won't do shit agains't any organized crime, but at least you might get it out of the hands of a bullied 14 year old.

Yeah but it's not like organized crime are arranging for school shootings. They only really shoot each other anyway, most of the time. If the military, SWAT and gangsters were the only people with guns, there'd still be a shitload less guns out there.

Well I think it's safe to say the OP has a couple of screws loose. I'm just going to pretend you people exist solely on the Internet.

@ccampb89 said:

@Jace said:

@astrotriforce:

No one will ever be able to change your mind; but you are very, very wrong.

It isn't worth my time to explain why, and you'll find it's blatantly obvious that you're wrong to most people in this thread.

Then it shouldn't have been worth your time to make a stupid post like this. "Hey your wrong, but I don't want to tell you why." The fact that you can call a subjective view of Christianity and it's affect on others as "wrong" is blatantly ignorant and short-sighted. Pretty much you contradicted yourself.@Wrighteous86 said:

@astrotriforce: Oh, you're one of those that says that they'll only respond to convincing arguments, ignore all the well-thought out posts, and then just respond to the people that post the flippant one-liners, rather than touching on the interesting points people have raised in this thread. Good. I guess I can leave now, then.

You're a joke, and you do more harm for your religion than good with threads like these.

There's nothing wrong with rejecting posts that would either cause him to flame or that are ignorant enough against his original post. It's called selective-response, and is something everyone should practice. there are far worse ways to represent your religion, and this man (woman?) is far from that. Extreme views of absolution (like your last sentence) do more harm to your small representation in this forum than good.

Small representation? If by that you mean everybody but you and the OP, then yeah, sure, that's a small representation.

OP is trying to say that if you're a Christian, you're less likely to go on a killing spree. And history has already proven him wrong. So this thread is kinda pointless.

Oh my final point, Good parenting will stop school shootings.

I do enjoy how murder isn't as high on the list as taking a day off a week to rest. I'm pretty sure most American prisoners are in fact god-fearing men and women, and the minority are atheist. So I'm not sure being a godly person means you are a moral person. Also, wouldn't banning guns be more effective in stopping school shootings? You can't shoot someone if you don't have a gun, right? So, to summerise, people do horrible things in the name of god, and if you removed guns from your society, maybe they'd not be used.

@ccampb89 said:

There's nothing wrong with rejecting posts that would either cause him to flame or that are ignorant enough against his original post. It's called selective-response, and is something everyone should practice. there are far worse ways to represent your religion, and this man (woman?) is far from that. Extreme views of absolution (like your last sentence) do more harm to your small representation in this forum than good.

People are bringing up points. For one, he keeps saying that anyone that kills is disobeying God's law. Yet I brought up a number of points in the Bible where God directly orders someone to kill. That would make for an interesting discussion, don't you think? I, and a few other people in this thread, have brought up a number of points like that. Instead of responding to them, he's responding to posts like this.

@CptBedlam said:

@dabe said:

Christianity has worked so well in culling/curbing violence in the past..

...and nowadays.

*expects troll; reads*

*slowly backs out of thread*

Someone get this fucking bullshit out and off of our forums, already.

Holy shit. I think this might be the dumbest fucking post in the history of the Giant Bomb forum.

Fuck, you're back.

The problem is that things like school shootings are much more complex than "he wasn't taught the Bible", but people like the OP think that Christianity would have solved everything, and we know through history that Christianity can be a weapon for evil just as much as for good. The problem lies with the person, not with his faith or lack thereof.

It's incredibly simplifying to just say "religion is the answer" and it's insulting to the victims involved. That's why people get so incensed.

I have no problem with people learning religion. I think everyone can get something good out of studying the world's religions. I get upset with the ego that most religious people (particularly Christians... and Scientologists) apply to their faith, and the fervor with which they foist it on others, which commonly comes across as fear and shaky beliefs.

1. I don't know how it worked in your dad's day, but in today's America, this would violate a small thing called the Constitution.

2. From what I've been reading, the shooting was caused by a combination of an abusive household mixed with bullying at school. As nice as mandatory Bible study probably sounds to a devout Christian, I would argue that imposing this would lead to exactly the same feelings of anger, marginalization, and ostracization that caused this tragedy in the first place.

You're telling me that if I'm a Jew or a Muslim or Atheist or any other non-Christian I'm not going to feel like society is saying my beliefs are worth less than yours when I hear the Christian Bible being shoved down my throat every day I go to school? You're telling me that if this happened that I wouldn't be angry about it?

3. Speaking of Bible study, which Bible are we talking about here? King James? Revised? Webster's? There are many, many different translations out there, all of which say slightly different things, including several of the passages you are quoting. Who gets to be the arbiter of which version is "correct?" You? The Pope? When someone disagrees, you risk ending up with the same problem in #2.

@ccampb89:

Look, I've spent a LOT of my time in college at debates and forums defending secularism against an extremely wide range of people with varying religious backgrounds. You don't want to go down this road. The mere notion that Christianity's affect on people is subjective is laughable. Here's a short answer:

Religion is false. It is outdated and inaccurate on its views of nature and society on both a factual and moral level. So beyond personal beliefs, it would be yet another further detriment to humanity to use religion as a backbone for behavioral adjustment.

Also, before you try and make a snide post about intelligence, try looking up the difference between "your" and "you're".

@astrotriforce said:

@Simplexity: Because they have respect for others. Their morals are based around respect, honor and dignity. No where did I say everyone has to follow the Bible, I said that those who do are less likely to kill others, because they are FORBIDDEN to do so. For many reasons.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, Christians are notorious for killing people left right and center in the name of God. Hell even God himself has killed more people then anyone according to the bible, in fact if you read the whole thing you'll see that he has killed and caused more suffering to his own people then anyone else, and even still people worship this guy as some paragon of kindness and justice. It really makes no sense.

Christianity is just a very violent religion at it's core and for you to say that Christianity prevents violence is complete and utter madness.

Crazy is universal. Religion isn't.

Hopefully this thread gets locked before it turns into an even greater clusterfuck.

This was a bad idea, man...I applaud you for trying though I guess.

@Jace said:

@ccampb89:

Look, I've spent a LOT of my time in college at debates and forums defending secularism against an extremely wide range of people with varying religious backgrounds. You don't want to go down this road. The mere notion that Christianity's affect on people is subjective is laughable. Here's a short answer:

Religion is false. It is outdated and inaccurate on its views of nature and society on both a factual and moral level. So beyond personal beliefs, it would be yet another further detriment to humanity to use religion as a backbone for behavioral adjustment.

Also, before you try and make a snide post about intelligence, try looking up the difference between "your" and "you're".

So your "intelligence" amounts taking a knock at the fact that I misused "your" and "you're."

The fact that you claim religion is false and outdated is a testament to how jaded you are to the process of thinking like others. You believe your view to be absolute and justified because you read it in a textbook and have others that believe the same way you do. I cannot bring myself to tell you that you are wrong, however, I can tell you that I sleep better at night knowing the way I think. Get off your high-horse and save it for people that can put up with your snobby attitude towards others opinions. People view history different, not the act, but the perspective. Religion has evolved along-side man just like it was intended to. Just because it doesn't meet your high-standards doesn't make it bad or obsolete.

@CookieMonster: ;)

@Wrighteous86: The hostility from the responses speaks volumes, as someone already pointed out. No where did I say that following the Bible was a catch-all solution, I said that those who do are less likely to commit acts of violence for the simple fact that it goes against what they fundamentally believe in.

"America is self-professedly one of the most Christian countries in the world. Why then, do we have more school shootings than Canada, or England, or Wales, or all these other countries that are undoubtedly "less Christian"? I know that facts and numbers consistently mess with your religious beliefs, but if you could address that one, then maybe we could get to the bottom of this discussion." And what makes you think they all are follow the teachings of Jesus? While that is true (about the nation), it's also true that most people don't even read their Bibles on a regular basis. But again you're missing the point. The point is that someone who believes in the ten commandments and the rational to NOT commit murder, one who follows the teachings of Christ, will NOT go on a shooting spree and kill his enemies. IF he does, then he is going against all that he believes and all that Christ taught. Whether a person says they are Christian or not doesn't mean jack squat. It hinges on how they follow the teachings of Christ.

@ccampb89 said:

The fact that you claim religion is false and outdated is a testament to how jaded you are to the process of thinking like others. You believe your view to be absolute and justified because you read it in a textbook and have others that believe the same way you do. I cannot bring myself to tell you that you are wrong, however, I can tell you that I sleep better at night knowing the way I think. Get off your high-horse and save it for people that can put up with your snobby attitude towards others opinions. People view history different, not the act, but the perspective. Religion has evolved along-side man just like it was intended to. Just because it doesn't meet your high-standards doesn't make it bad or obsolete.

Creationism. That is all.

@TobbRobb said:

Indoctrinate the young! That way they won't shoot each other!

Or you know, teach ethics and morals instead and BAN FUCKING GUNS.

Yeah, this is what I came here to say. Also offer more avenues of support for troubled teenagers, sometimes they just need to talk to somebody about it.

Perhaps I was missinformed, but I was taught that God is somthing to be loved, not feared

Those morals are in no way exclusive to Christianity. They've been around since humans had the ability to reason. It seems extremely arrogant to give all the credit to the worlds second youngest major religion when Hinduism and Buddhism taught against killing ANYTHING, not just people, millennia before the Bible existed.

@astrotriforce: I'd rather parents taught their children that physically or mentally harming or being disrespectful to anyone(etc.) is straight up wrong, and make sure their children take to that teaching without bringing any faith into it at all.

But on the other hand, as long as we can blame someone for what they did instead of ourselves for what we didn't do everything's cool, right?

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

@astrotriforce: If that's your observation of it I will not ruin it for ya.

Harsh. I was saying it tongue-in-check anyhow.

@BigChickenDinner: Dawkins? That's a joke right? The seeding the earth on the back of crystals guy? I'd rather "Believe the words that stand the test and not the slurs of the youth" I pray his delusion of God gets fixed before he passes. Or he's in for a rude awakening.

@BrickRoad said:

I do enjoy how murder isn't as high on the list as taking a day off a week to rest. I'm pretty sure most American prisoners are in fact god-fearing men and women, and the minority are atheist. So I'm not sure being a godly person means you are a moral person. Also, wouldn't banning guns be more effective in stopping school shootings? You can't shoot someone if you don't have a gun, right? So, to summerise, people do horrible things in the name of god, and if you removed guns from your society, maybe they'd not be used.

It's because Spiritual sin is more damning than flesh sin. There is no sin that sends a person to Hell, they are sent to hell because they have no cover for their sins. Romans 3:23: For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Salvation is a free gift and can't be earned, "thus none can boast". Also the ten commandments come from the Old Testament, a different age before Christ redeemed man. That's why it's part of the old covenant, and not the new.

@DoctorWelch said:

I don't understand why you would post this on here. There's nothing ignorant people like more than to bash concepts that they would normally find morally correct simply because they see it coming from the bible. At the same time though, your post is fairly misleading with the title as well as misinterpretations of fearing God and such, which is the same reason why anyone could just come into this thread and say "You're wrong! CRUSADES!".

So basically, the fact that the original poster even posted this means I know he/she needs to grow up a little and stop being so blinded by his/her beliefs. Though, the same could also be said for all the immature children that have responded to this person. It is actually kind of beautiful, this thread. It encompasses everything that is wrong with society and the world today. There is one side of blind people who seem to lack the ability of questioning anything, especially faith, while the other side goes on living the entirety of life as a rebellious teenager without the ability to actually discuss topics, realize the mind blowing fact that a coin has two sides, and use the realization of perspectives to properly asses and analyze anything.

Excellent point and awesome observations, i tip my hat good sir. But getting people to debate, AND read the ten commandments, whether they get enflamed by them or not, serves a point on it's own. That, and I just thought it made an interesting topic and I knew it'd get a ton of responses. Since I don't come here often I thought I'd give it a shot. This is supposedly an Off-Topic thread, so it belongs here just fine despite what anyone else says about me "trolling". Which isn't true. They can ask Claude. He knows all about that.

An astrotriforce thread. How... quaint.

 Thus saith the LORD of hosts ... go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass

@astrotriforce said:

@CookieMonster: ;)

@Wrighteous86: The hostility from the responses speaks volumes, as someone already pointed out. No where did I say that following the Bible was a catch-all solution, I said that those who do are less likely to commit acts of violence for the simple fact that it goes against what they fundamentally believe in.

"America is self-professedly one of the most Christian countries in the world. Why then, do we have more school shootings than Canada, or England, or Wales, or all these other countries that are undoubtedly "less Christian"? I know that facts and numbers consistently mess with your religious beliefs, but if you could address that one, then maybe we could get to the bottom of this discussion." And what makes you think they all are follow the teachings of Jesus? While that is true (about the nation), it's also true that most people don't even read their Bibles on a regular basis. But again you're missing the point. The point is that someone who believes in the ten commandments and the rational to NOT commit murder, one who follows the teachings of Christ, will NOT go on a shooting spree and kill his enemies. IF he does, then he is going against all that he believes and all that Christ taught. Whether a person says they are Christian or not doesn't mean jack squat. It hinges on how they follow the teachings of Christ.

See, here's where your entire argument falls apart. You're trying to justify through faux-deductive reasoning a point that while inherently true, doesn't further the discussion at hand.

Here is what you're saying;

1. If more people were Christians, we'd have fewer murders.

2. If someone kills someone else, they are not truly a Christian.

3. Thus, if everyone were Christian (defined as people who don't murder), there would be no murder.

This is akin to saying "if no one was fat, there would be no fat people". Well no shit, Sherlock. Unfortunately for your argument, hundreds of millions of murderers in history have been religious, and a good third or more of them Christian.

In reality, the problem is more like this;

1. Religions (and the religious) are responsible for more death and destruction than any other forces.

2. Religions which use fear to discourage violence are inferior to the intrinsic morals of every human.

3. Religion is an infantile comfort of humanity. It is a baby's security blanket. It is harmful to society and humankind in more ways than you can even perceive.