Latest PPV and weekly show discussion thread

New kid on the block here so I'm starting off with the basic 200 points:

• Wade Barrett vs The Miz -- 10 points on The Miz
  
• Lord Trainsai & Brodus Clay vs Team Rhodes Scholars -- 15 points on Clay & Tensai
• Jericho vs FanDANGo -- 25 points on FandangOO
• Team Hell No vs Biggles & Ziggles -- 00 points (keep it safe)
• Ryback vs Mizark Henry -- 20 points on The Ryback
• The Shield vs Team Super Mega Ultra Friends -- 15 points on The Shield
• Alberto Del Rio vs Jack "420 Smoke Weed Everyday" Swagger -- 20 points on Del Rio
• Undertaker vs CM Punk -- 60 points on Taker
• Lesnar vs Triple H -- 00 points (The winner is the viewer at home)
• Cena vs The Rock -- 35 points on Cena

Cena turns heel. Probably not and I don't really want it but this is my longshot pick.

I think this PPV needs a 'surprise'. Ziggler cashing in, Shield having a leader, Punk somehow winning, Cena turning heel... all are longshots, but I don't know, this show needs 'something'.

@turboman said:

Off to work, hopefully I won't miss too much tonight.

---

New Punk shirt being debuted tonight. I really like the faux-religious drawing on the front, but it doesn't make for a very good shirt (or a shirt I would actually wear in real life)

Sweet jesus, that is horrendous.

Wade Barrett vs The Miz - The Miz - 100

• Tons of Funk and The Funkadactyls vs Team Rhodes Scholars and The Bella Twins - Tons of Funk :( - 100
• Chris Jericho vs Fandango - Fandango - 200
• WWE Tag Team Champions Team Hell No vs Dolph Ziggler and Big E Langston - Dolph Ziggler and #E - 100
• Ryback vs Mark Henry - Ryback - 100
• Randy Orton, Sheamus and Big Show vs The Shield - The Shield - 190
• World Heavyweight Champion Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - Del Rio - 100
• Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - Triple H - 100
• The Undertaker vs CM Punk - CM Punk - 1000
• WWE Champion The Rock vs John Cena - John Cena - 1000

I want my title

• Intercontinental Champion Wade Barrett vs The Miz - 200 Points on Miz
• Chris Jericho vs Fandango - 300 Points on Fandango
• Randy Orton, Sheamus and Big Show vs The Shield - 1000 Points on The Shield
• World Heavyweight Champion Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - 500 Points on Alberto Del Rio
• Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - 1000 Points on Triple H
• The Undertaker vs CM Punk - 4000 on Taker
• WWE Champion The Rock vs John Cena - 2000 on Cena

Isn't the WM preshow just an hour away from now?

• Tons of Funk and The Funkadactyls vs Team Rhodes Scholars and The Bella Twins - 20 on Tons of Funk
• Chris Jericho vs Fandango - 20 on Fandango
• WWE Tag Team Champions Team Hell No vs Dolph Ziggler and Big E Langston - 10 on Team Hell No
• Ryback vs Mark Henry - 20 on Ryback
• Randy Orton, Sheamus and Big Show vs The Shield - 30 on The Shield
• World Heavyweight Champion Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - 0 on Del Rio
• Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - 40 on Triple H
• The Undertaker vs CM Punk - 60 on The Undertaker
• WWE Champion The Rock vs John Cena - 0 on John Cena

Yes, it is. I'll throw up the chat in about half an hour.

LoC time (13175 points):

• Intercontinental Champion Wade Barrett vs The Miz - Singles Match for the Intercontinental Championship: 1000 points on The Miz - win or lose, both Barrett and Miz are going to be fine in the long run, so I see the face winning to set the mood for the night.
• Tons of Funk and The Funkadactyls vs Team Rhodes Scholars and The Bella Twins - Eight Person Mixed Tag Team Match: 500 points on Team Funk - Maybe this is like last year's big tag match and the heels win, but I think this is just going to be a 10~15 minute cool down between two of the main event matches.
• Chris Jericho vs Fandango - Singles Match: 675 points on Fandango - Vince fucking loves Fandango and Jericho's leaving soon, so I don't see why Jericho's going to win. On the flip side, I still remember Summerslam 2012 where everyone was saying that Ziggler would beat Jericho only for the exact opposite to happen.
• WWE Tag Team Champions Team Hell No vs Dolph Ziggler and Big E Langston - Tag Team Match for the WWE Tag Team Championship: 1000 points on Team Hell No - There are more heel tag teams than face teams, Ziggler's not going to be a double champion if he cashes in, Ziggler could pull an Edge and cost the match early to get ready for a cash in, Reverse Momentum Theory says that Hell No are winning, Big E can still be a monster even if his team loses, etc. I know people are getting tired of Team Hell No, but I don't think the odd couple's reign ends here. Also, I could see Kaitlyn running down to prevent an AJ interference, setting up a title match at Extreme Rules or the night after.
• Ryback vs Mark Henry - Singles Match: 1500 points on Ryback - Ryback needs a win and Henry is like Jericho in that he could lose and still be a threat.
• Randy Orton, Sheamus and Big Show vs The Shield - Six Man Tag Team Match: 1000 points on The Shield - The Voice of Reason (Randy Orton) loses and then snaps at some point (either tonight or later).
• World Heavyweight Champion Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - Singles Match for the World Heavyweight Championship: 2500 Points on Alberto Del Rio - Seven weeks was WAY too long for this feud and I'm dreading six more weeks of this for Extreme Rules (and let's hope that, if this feud continues, Ziggler gets the title and feuds with someone else).
• Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - No Holds Barred Match; If Lesnar Wins, Triple H Must Retire: 1000 points on Triple H - The Ass-Kicker gets his win back and Brock goes away again.
• The Undertaker vs CM Punk - Singles Match: 2500 Points on The Undertaker - Some of you guys are really funny with your bets on Punk. The Streak's not ending, ever. And if it was, they wouldn't have built an entire story about Taker getting his revenge.
• WWE Champion The Rock vs John Cena - Singles Match for the WWE Championship: 1500 points on John Cena - Cena, Redemption, I don't really care. I'd love to see something new from Cena, but I doubt we'll actually get that.

I'm going to throw out a Wizard prediction: Charlie Sheen will interact with Team Hell No.

CHATAMANIA IS LIVE

Here goes nothing!

My first go, tell me if I fucked-up.

• World Heavyweight Champion Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - 25 points on Jack Swagger
• Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - 50 points on Triple H
• The Undertaker vs CM Punk - 75 points on The Undertaker
• WWE Champion The Rock vs John Cena - 50 points on Cena

I'm a lot later than normal. I don't know how, but I somehow forgot it was Wrestlemania.

Chris Jericho vs Fandango - 340 Points on Fandango

Team Hell No vs Dolph Ziggler and Big E Langston - 100 Points on THN - I expect a cash in to be Ziggler's big moment for tonight. Not the tag championship

Randy Orton, Sheamus and Big Show vs The Shield - 350 Points on The Shield

Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - 100 Points on Triple H

The Undertaker vs CM Punk - 500 Points on Taker - Insanely tempted to put it on Punk, but I'll play it safe.

The Rock vs John Cena - 500 Points on Cena

Hopefully this show will be better than expected.

My feelings on WrestleMania:

That is the best GIF on the internet. Like holy shit. Thank you based Colter

I'm not surprised of how much WM was a shitshow. Reminds me why I've skipped watching wrestling for over a month now. It's fucking terrible. But Punk vs. Taker was great because PUNK. I missed The Shields match so I can't comment.

• No Ziggler cash-in = fuck you WWE.
• Cena as champ = fuck you WWE.
• Fandango's debut match was FUCKING TERRIBLE.
• Undertaker winning again is just dumb.
• Why are Hell No still champions? They were fun when they won the title but now it's just boring.

FUCK THIS. I DON'T CARE. FUCK WRESTLING. I WILL CONTINUE TO NOT WATCH THIS TURD

I think the most surprising thing about this is show is that there was no surprise.

The Shield won but continues to have no real direction except beating up randomly assembled teams. Didn't have a secret leader revealed either!

Ziggler loses and doesn't cash in. There wasn't even a good tease for him to cash in on (I was thinking Swagger BARELY wins but Ziggles capitalizes on it by cashing in).

Cena wins clean as a whistle, doesn't turn heel, barely even teases the inevitable Thrice In A Lifetime match we all know has to happen. The score's tied now. You know it's coming.

And most stunningly, Tons of Funk v. Rhodes Scholars ISN'T the main event...it just doesn't happen at all!

I thought it was a good show though. Even if there were some weak matches none of them were blatant filler or unwatchable trash. That's more than I can say for last year's show!

Actually, Mark Henry winning was kinda surprising. Genuinely not expecting that considering Ryback's perpetual push.

I feel responsible for not making you reconsider this but yeah the hell where you thinking??

On PromoMania as a whole its was too Meh for me, to the point where after Punk vs Taker it became an endurance to see the rest so yeah lets see what RAW brings tomorrow.

Torrenting WM now to see the undercard. My thoughts on the last two matches:

Worst part of this mania was the severe lack of Raddox.

Did anyone order it through the x-box?? I was thinking of ordering a PPV sometime if they keep doing that, if the stream is good.

I think I need to make a positive spin on things...

I'm making another wrestling compilation video filled with wrestlers flipping tables.

Well, I was feeling extremely bored and liked the idea of doing something dumb to either go up in flames or win big.

Didn't work out. Still worth it.

That sounds amazing.

@rentfn said:

I did, and I would recommend it. The stream looked and sounded great, only had a minor framerate hiccup once.

The match between Punk and the Undertaker was the best match of the night. Everything from the entrances to the psychology to Paul Heyman's reactions was superb. The rest of the night I could take or leave. I was really sad that Tons of Funk vs. Rhode Scholars was pushed aside. Even if the match was filler, it would have been a nice showpiece for some of the newer talent and the female wrestlers (who got no recognition at all during this PPV). It is disappointing that The Showcase of the Immortals was such a vanilla show. I guess Wrestlemania isn't as much of a storyline pivot point as it used to be. it didn't help that most of the match were put together well in advance or slapped together in the last two weeks.

I am hoping that RAW will provide a welcome surprise or two, but I am skeptical. My bet for most enjoyable wrestling experience this week is Guacamelee.

This facial expression kind of sums up WM without saying any words.

I just got back from it.

The undercard matches all seemed fine, I enjoyed Fandango greatly even if the end was a bit sloppy. The Punk/Taker match was great. Nobody cared about the Brock/Triple H match. Rock/Cena seemed better than last year,.

I didn't get to see Brodus Clay :( and you guys didn't get to see Zeb/Swagger drive that sweet car thing around.

In the arena, what was the crowd like during Rock/Cena? Because from home, they seemed pretty dead throughout most of the match.

Also, apropos of nothing...

Got through the rest of it:

• Shield vs. Big White Snake - **

Really, this was just about as good of an opening match as you can get. The Shield are just stars, it's up to WWE to come up with a storyline for them from this point forward. I don't care about Show/Orton feud at all, but at least it gets them away from The Shield.

• Henry vs. Ryback - 1/2*

It was what it was. I have no clue why they did that ending at all though, Ryback would have been a star tonight if he would have just slammed Henry.

• Fandango vs. Jericho - **1/2

The match was swell up until the very ending, which looked awkward due to a number of things that it looked like both Fandango and Jericho screwed up. Could've been longer.

• Team Hell No vs. Team Rocket - **

Another case of "could've been better if it had more time". Bryan was based the entire time he was involved, but he didn't really contribute much to the overall match. Big E really shined in the few moments he was in the ring also. Then out of nowhere Hell No has control and Kane chokeslams Ziggler before the match could take it to the next level.

• Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger - ***

I'm going to repeat the same thing: The match ended too early. The crowd wasn't too into the match, but the actual match itself and pacing was great in my opinion. There's a great moment where there's a reverse from a mounted Ankle Lock to a Cross Armbar back to an Ankle Lock that I thought was inspired. The ending was very dull, though. I really hope that Swagger isn't in the dog house or anything like that because him and Zeb are on to something together. Also, the promo video for this match was really good.

• CM Punk vs. Undertaker - ****1/4

Great Promo Video. Great Opening Performance by Living Colour. Great Feud. This was the only match worth of being held at Wrestlemania going in, and it became the only match that's worth talking about coming out. Nothing truly technical about the match, but like most of Undertaker's WrestleMania matches, it tells a great story with plenty of near falls. Taker getting the urn back was the obvious "feel good" ending to a really dirty and personal feud.

• Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H - **3/4

This match was entirely way too long. The summerslam match was a bit better than this one if I can recall it right. Nothing really memorable or noteworthy. HBK contributed absolutely nothing to the match in any meaningful way. There was no way that anybody would ever think that Lesnar was going to tap out to HHH's Kamura. A lot of spots in the match was just sloppily executed. On top of all of that, the crowd was dead.

• The Rock vs. John Cena - ***

It should be an embarrassment to the company when the main event of your biggest PPV falls as flat on its face as this one did. There was so much rest time happening in this match and it doesn't help the crowd after the last overly long match. Then the match boiled down to kicking out of each others finishing moves over and over, to the point of the Rock Bottom looking like it has the same effect as a body slam. It's fine to kick out of a finisher in a big match, it works, but doing the same finisher over and over really reveals that you don't have many tricks up your sleeve. The only good spot was the tease of the reverse of the ending to last year's Wrestlemania (The Rock going for the Five Knuckle Shuffle into Cena countering with an AA). Post match had Cena and Rock shaking hands in front of a really confused crowd. I guess that means that this might be the last time we'll see The Rock in the ring (thank goodness) for now.

That comes out this week? I had no clue. That game looks like it's pretty fun.

---

This was posted on Wreddit several hours before Mania. Looks like somebody probably won't have a job tomorrow.

Okay, now that the show has sunk in a bit. Here's some extended thoughts:

• The Shield vs. Orton/Sheamus/Show - Nowhere near the quality of The Shield's first two matches but it was a fun opener and I'm glad Shield gets to keep winning. The reveal of Show's "heel turn" (if you can even call it that) was kind of weak.
• Mark Henry vs. Ryback - Decent little hoss fight. Actually enjoyed the ending with Henry just squashing (literally) Ryback. But the whole match was negated when Ryback beat down Henry after the match. Why have him win if he just going to eat a Shellshock after the match? Why not just have Ryback pin him? It's not like you have to protect Henry or something. Completely nonsensical booking.
• Fandango vs. Chris Jericho - These two didn't mesh particularly well and while I know some people will dispute this, I don't think Jericho has been very good since he came back last year. I'm kind of fundamentally opposed to a WrestleMania match ending with a roll-up but I'm happy that Fandango got the win.
• Team Hell No vs. Ziggler/Big E - Really good match but it just didn't last very long. I mentioned this multiple times in the chat but almost every match seemed rushed. Given the proper time, these guys easily could have stolen the show but given the allotted time, they did well. As far for where Team Hell No goes from here, I have no fucking clue.
• Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger - About what I expected from these two. Good match but nothing really spectacular to write home about. As with every other match, the ending seemed rushed.
• CM Punk vs. The Undertaker - Not really in the same league as either of Taker's matches with Shawn Michaels but definitely better than both of his matches with Triple H and just a great match in its own right. Both guys did a fantastic job. Far and away the match of the night and nothing else really come close.
• Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H - This is when things got ROUGH. While every match before it seemed rushed, this went on FOREVER. I don't think there's much else that exemplifies HHH's arrogance than thinking that he could follow Taker and Punk. There is no way that this match should have gone on after that match and it showed. The crowd was completely out of it and didn't seem to give a shit about much of anything happening. I was ready to have a fucking aneurysm when it looked like Lesnar was going to tap out to the kimura. Maybe I'm being overly dramatic but that would have been just downright disrespectful. HBK was completely useless at ringside, there was zero reason for him to be involved in this match other than "hey, look it's Shawn Michaels." As awesome as Lesnar/Cena was at Extreme Rules, this was as boring. Bad.
• The Rock vs. John Cena - The Rock is not a good wrestler anymore. He simply isn't. This was blatantly obvious in literally every match he has had since he returned. As such, I didn't expect much from this match and hoo boy, did it deliver on those low expectations. I'm not going to put it on Cena/Miz level as far as WM main events go (at least there wasn't a count out) but this was just a poor effort all around. There was no story to be told, there was no urgency, there was nothing. It was just two guys going through the motions, which is probably not a good idea when you're in the main event of WrestleMania. The crowd was not into the match at all and ending the show with the two of them raising each other arms to a chorus of boos is a pretty good summation of this whole joke of a feud. I'm not going to get hung up on the whole "man, Cena should have turned heel" thing because A. that was never gonna happen and B. who cares? But this needed something, anything, to give the match some sort of edge. A failure of pretty much all fronts. Go away, Rock. Please don't come back.

So, WrestleMania wasn't great. Besides the final two matches, everyone else ranged from great to fine but there was no one match where I could say "wow, I'm going to remember watching that forever", which is becoming more and more commonplace with Mania the last couple years. There were parts I liked but it almost never felt like the huge show it was suppose to be.

My biggest problem with Wrestlemania this year is there was no real memorable moments. Most of the matches were totally average but for WM, they needed to go all out and it ended up just feeling like a lesser PPV.

I wasn't expecting to like Taker vs. Punk as much as I do, so that's pretty cool. They did a great job, I feel like Undertaker is the king of Wrestlemania rather than HBK.

HHH vs. Brock was not good, just like the first time. Considering his age and level of responsibility, HHH still needing his ego stroked is concerning. Is Brock really worth the money they are spending on him?

Hell No retaining was fun, Danielson super over with the PPV crowd as usual. Shield winning was a good opener, Show "turn" was stupid; he's been a face for like a week, what's the point? Fandango wasn't very good, but what would you expect from a guy being thrust into such a high-pressure situation? Unoriginal, I know, but Cesaro should have been on the card. They could have cut a number of things to make room for an 8-10 minute match.

No backstage segments was really weird. Why so many video packages and advertisements on a $70 show?

I'll echo @milkman's thoughts on the Ryback match - why tease the Shellshock, have Henry win, then do the spot anyway? Did Henry really need protection from that loss?

Wasn't too into Del Rio-Swagger, just not very high on either guy. No entrance for Swagger made him look like a jobber; again, bad time management.

First half of Rock-Cena was pretty boring - rest holds 3 minutes into the match? Really? Seemed like Cena was half-assing his spots, don't know what that was about. Second half was better but still not great in my eyes. Post-match interaction was cool, although I was surprised at the negative response the crowd gave it.

So where does WWE go from here? With Punk taking time off and the part-timers taking their leave, who's next in line for Cena? Do they stretch out another year to build towards big money-matches at WM30, or do they start spreading them out throughout the year?

Overall the event was fine: I'll remember Taker vs Punk and that's about it. Disappointing there was no surprise (not even a random Stone Cold Stunner for the crowd): everything went down exactly as planned.

One of my major thoughts right now is that this whole "these are the matches that are going to be the show stealers" idea that the WWE has. Not because it means we get way too many promos for the matches. It doesn't even matter who's in those matches. But everyone else gets the short end of the stick at Mania now because "No, no, look you guys, Brock vs Trips is going to be the BIG MATCH OF THE NIGHT!" or "Rocky vs Cena is going to be the big match everyone cares about!" I mean, how fucked is it that Funk vs Scholars got completely scrapped because they just had to work in more dead air promos and give Cena/Rock and Trips/Brock as much time as they did for their useless matches? And everyone else on the card suffers for it too because their matches get cut in time to make room for all of that as well. Just about the only match that felt good through and through for amount of time, pacing, everything, was Taker vs Punk. But whatever.

The other thing I wanted to say is - standard fan reaction, Big Show gets snubbed during the match because Orton's a selfish dick, but Big Show is the bad guy somehow. #wrestlinglogic

The rest of the card can be summed up, I feel, in what I put in my predictions - Well duh.

Forgot to post my predictions because of work. Missed WrestleMania because of work. I just "watched" (entrances, finishes, skimmed through match) through some streams. My thoughts? It was a very bland WM so it gets a Meh...

I really liked the opening match and the Taker/Punk match was phenomenal. Living Colour also just showed everyone else ever how to do a live wrestling intro. I thought everything else was fine and nothing was really terrible. I'm kinda bummed that there was no US title or womens match, but whatever. Also I loved how cocky Cena acted when he was doing that People's Elbow. He was such a dick about it that I am kind of sad that we got that sappy everyone is happy ending.

Was a very average ppv did not feel like mania. Even the musical performance was sub par. P Diddu if you are going to sample a rocky song do not cut out the best part.

Taker/Punk-4.5/5-Watch it

HHH/Brock-3/5 - Upon refelection this morning wasn't as bad as I first thought but still not the best.

Swagger/Del rio 2/5 - I think Zeb talking trash to Mr.Del Rio was my favorite part. Also Jobber entrance for swagger....ya really had me going thinking he was going to win.(not).

Shield/team we got nothing for you for mania 4/5 - I liked it a little on the short side. Also thing they could have sold more the fact big show didn't break up the pin. Was fine.

Henry/Ryback 1/5 - Did nothing for me. I think it says something when the bigger crowd pop came after the match. They should of just let ryback win with the shell shock.

Y2J/Fandango 1/5- The entrances were cool. WWE failed hard and making me care about fandango he just seems like a leg drop machine. THe botch ending didn't help.

HellNo/Ziggy E 3.5/5- Good safe fun. No D-Bry entrance was a dick move WWE.

Rock/Cena 2/5- Was going to get a one but I liked the fake out with the reverse spot from last year. I love a finisher fest but that was over kill at the end. That last 5 min was either a finisher attempt/reversal or finisher with a kick out. Also it really bugs me Cena got this 3 year build up for a rub. He's already god tier.

Overall 3/5 Hey at least I didn't pay 60$ to watch an hour of promo's for the ppv I would have already bought. Also where were the crazy ass entrance's besides hhh/punk.

Yeah, Brock's face kinda sums up my reaction to Mania. A whole lot of "wut".

@awesomeusername: Go watch some PWG and tell me how wrestling is? WWE is terrible, wrestling isn't.

Shield vs Super Friends was easily my favorite match. There wasn't that 'moment' in the Punk/Taker match that made me believe. Everything else was meh. What did you expect from the start? I was dreading Mania this year and I wasn't surprised at the show's quality.

totally agree. WWE screwed up Wrestlemania, but PWG still has great shows. NJPW is on some kind of insane fire right now in terms of quality. TNA is actually good right now. Chikara is always solid & fun. ROH is also a quality alternative, etc etc.

I had to sleep after Taker vs Punk. Did the HOF guys come out at all?

Yeah, they did.

Living Colour's peformance was amazing. Could've done with some pyro during the entrance though. Swagger and Colter came in on a fucking buggy thing and we didn't even see it? Brock got pyro when he jumped on the ring! Yay Nostalgia! Undertaker's creepy hands thing was pretty rad. Triple H recycled last years entrance, but this time got spunked on. Cena and Rock had... normal entrances?

Yeah, I think my opinion of this PPV came be summed up by the fact that I was mostly enthused by the entrances.

Still holding out for a Ziggler cash-in tonight though.

@milkman: It took a bit, but yes they got into it. Not as much as Taker/Punk, which was a pretty high bar. It might have taken a bit because it seemed rushed to start, I don't think people were ready for Cena's music just to play and him run down there.

But I was in the upper deck who was into most matches, and the parking lot was chanting let's go Cena/Cena sucks starting about 3 hours before the preshow.

Were there no stupid sketches this year?

@gorillamopena: Nope. The only backstage segment was during the pre-show with Miz, Barrett and Snooki, which Miz referred to Snooki as a "MILF."