Legal marijuana = fewer traffic fatalities

Source?

Correlational research is practically worthless. Here's why: Correlation does not imply causality.

Here's a source to back up this truth; http://www.eric.ed.gov/PDFS/ED445078.pdf

All that's being said here is that in the states where marijuana was legalized traffic fatalities went down. It does not say that traffic fatalities went down because marijuana was legalized. There could be insurmountable reasons for why traffic fatalities went down. All that can be drawn from this study is that there could be a relationship there but it is way, way to early to say one way or another. They are just giving an interesting stat where no real conclusions can be drawn.

I want it legalized just so the people advocating it shut the hell up.

Imagine the revenue legalizing and regulating marijuana would bring in to this country. That alone is a good enough reason to legalize it, I would imagine.

@Video_Game_King said:

I want it legalized just so the people advocating it shut the hell up.

Seriously.

Source?

Correlational research is practically worthless. Here's why: Correlation does not imply causality.

Here's a source to back up this truth; http://www.eric.ed.gov/PDFS/ED445078.pdf

All that's being said here is that in the states where marijuana was legalized traffic fatalities went down.

@Fajita_Jim said:

@Dagbiker said:

Source?

First word on the OP is a link.

Now it is. when i wrote the question it wasn't there.

Imagine the revenue legalizing and regulating marijuana would bring in to this country. That alone is a good enough reason to legalize it, I would imagine.

@Fajita_Jim said:

@Dagbiker said:

Source?

First word on the OP is a link.

Now it is. when i wrote the question it wasn't there.

@Fajita_Jim said:

@PrivateIronTFU said:

Imagine the revenue legalizing and regulating marijuana would bring in to this country. That alone is a good enough reason to legalize it, I would imagine.

Even without the additional revenue, do you realize how much taxpayer money is spent to prosecute and jail non-violent pot smokers? Too much, that's how much.

Not to mention the rise of junk food consumption.

@Fajita_Jim said:

@PrivateIronTFU said:

Imagine the revenue legalizing and regulating marijuana would bring in to this country. That alone is a good enough reason to legalize it, I would imagine.

Even without the additional revenue, do you realize how much taxpayer money is spent to prosecute and jail non-violent pot smokers? Too much, that's how much.

Yeah, it's pretty damn ridiculous.

@Mordukai said:

@Fajita_Jim said:

@PrivateIronTFU said:

Imagine the revenue legalizing and regulating marijuana would bring in to this country. That alone is a good enough reason to legalize it, I would imagine.

Even without the additional revenue, do you realize how much taxpayer money is spent to prosecute and jail non-violent pot smokers? Too much, that's how much.

Not to mention the rise of junk food consumption.

True. Although these days it seems like non pot smokers are consuming just as much junk food. We have a lot of fatties here.

Marijuana use in most cases reduces alcohol use. I know that's how it worked for me and my friends, started toking over a decade ago and pretty much gave up on the booze. Good study and I find it very amusing how the prohibitionist come out of the woodwork to call it misguided and full of fallacies when the whole war on drugs is based on lies.

I don't know why they don't legalize it and make some money anyway. The people that want to smoke weed are gonna smoke weed, whether it's legal or not.

But yeah, it makes no sense as to why alcohol is legal but marijuana isn't. Alcohol is ridiculously dangerous. Now by no means am I saying weed is perfect for your health and can cure diseases, but I don't think it's as bad as alcohol.

Put someone in a car who's drunk off their ass and they're bound to hit someone or something. I had a kid that went to my school get hit by a drunk driver from behind. He flew out of the windshield and the DD left him lay in the road and ran away. He ended up being okay, thankfully. Now, put someone who's stoned in car and they probably won't do over 30-45mph.

That's based off my own assumptions and also seeing people drink/smoke, including myself (which I rarely do either).

Because correlation equals causation. Wait. Nope. Basic statistics knowledge:

The cum hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy can be expressed as follows:

1. A occurs in correlation with B.

1. Therefore, A causes B.

In this type of logical fallacy, one makes a premature conclusion about causality after observing only a correlation between two or more factors. Generally, if one factor (A) is observed to only be correlated with another factor (B), it is sometimes taken for granted that A is causing B even when no evidence supports it. This is a logical fallacy because there are at least five possibilities:

1. A may be the cause of B.

1. B may be the cause of A.

1. Some unknown third factor C may actually be the cause of both A and B.

1. There may be a combination of the above three relationships. For example, B may be the cause of A at the same time as A is the cause of B (contradicting that the only relationship between A and B is thatA causes B). This describes a self-reinforcing system.

1. The "relationship" is a coincidence or so complex or indirect that it is more effectively called a coincidence (i.e. two events occurring at the same time that have no direct relationship to each other besides the fact that they are occurring at the same time). A larger sample size helps to reduce the chance of a coincidence, unless there is a systematic error in the experiment.

In other words, there can be no conclusion made regarding the existence or the direction of a cause and effect relationship only from the fact that A and B are correlated. Determining whether there is an actual cause and effect relationship requires further investigation, even when the relationship between A and B is statistically significant, a large effect size is observed, or a large part of the variance is explained.

@Dagbiker said:

@Fajita_Jim said:

@Dagbiker said:

Source?

First word on the OP is a link.

Now it is. when i wrote the question it wasn't there.

Yes it was. If you'll notice, the message has not been edited.

@Mordukai said:

@Fajita_Jim said:

@PrivateIronTFU said:

Imagine the revenue legalizing and regulating marijuana would bring in to this country. That alone is a good enough reason to legalize it, I would imagine.

Even without the additional revenue, do you realize how much taxpayer money is spent to prosecute and jail non-violent pot smokers? Too much, that's how much.

Not to mention the rise of junk food consumption.

True. Although these days it seems like non pot smokers are consuming just as much junk food. We have a lot of fatties here.

Yeah but stoners are really annoying people. Seriously, I had to live with a bunch for a year.

I prefer having drunks running naked through the streets then potheads smoking on the sidewalks.

@MysteriousBob said:

Yeah but stoners are really annoying people. Seriously, I had to live with a bunch for a year.

Alcoholists are fucking depressing people. Seriously, it's just sad how they have thrown their lives away.

do you realize how much taxpayer money is spent to prosecute and jail non-violent pot smokers? Too much, that's how much.

awesome

I want it legalized just so the people advocating it shut the hell up.

I can't believe alcohol is still legal. Substances less dangerous than alcohol are illegal, it makes no sense.

I'd love to see all these pointless substances banned. The world would be a better place.

Replacing a drug with another is not an improvement. Ban all that shit. You can claim you're a "responsible user" all you want, you're still a user and that in itself is irresponsible.

Prescriptions for pain obviously don't count.

@Dagbiker said:

@PrivateIronTFU

@Mordukai said:

@Fajita_Jim said:

@PrivateIronTFU said:

Imagine the revenue legalizing and regulating marijuana would bring in to this country. That alone is a good enough reason to legalize it, I would imagine.

Even without the additional revenue, do you realize how much taxpayer money is spent to prosecute and jail non-violent pot smokers? Too much, that's how much.

Not to mention the rise of junk food consumption.

True. Although these days it seems like non pot smokers are consuming just as much junk food. We have a lot of fatties here.

Lets not condemn pot smokers, but fat people are fair game right.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't condemning anybody.

@Galiant said:

I can't believe alcohol is still legal. Substances less dangerous than alcohol are illegal, it makes no sense. I'd love to see all these pointless substances banned. The world would be a better place. Replacing a drug with another is not an improvement. Ban all that shit. You can claim you're a "responsible user" all you want, you're still a user and that in itself is irresponsible. Prescriptions for pain obviously don't count.

This.

@Fajita_Jim said:

@PrivateIronTFU said:

Imagine the revenue legalizing and regulating marijuana would bring in to this country. That alone is a good enough reason to legalize it, I would imagine.

Even without the additional revenue, do you realize how much taxpayer money is spent to prosecute and jail non-violent pot smokers? Too much, that's how much.

I'm not a pot smoker, but 80% of drug related police costs going towards pot related offences? (Canadian) FUCK THAT says taxpayer Brendan.

@Dagbiker said:

@PrivateIronTFU

@Mordukai said:

@Fajita_Jim said:

@PrivateIronTFU said:

Imagine the revenue legalizing and regulating marijuana would bring in to this country. That alone is a good enough reason to legalize it, I would imagine.

Even without the additional revenue, do you realize how much taxpayer money is spent to prosecute and jail non-violent pot smokers? Too much, that's how much.

Not to mention the rise of junk food consumption.

True. Although these days it seems like non pot smokers are consuming just as much junk food. We have a lot of fatties here.

Lets not condemn pot smokers, but fat people are fair game right.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't condemning anybody.

@Fajita_Jim said:

@JasonR86 said:

Correlational research is practically worthless. Here's why: Correlation does not imply causality.

Here's a source to back up this truth; http://www.eric.ed.gov/PDFS/ED445078.pdf

All that's being said here is that in the states where marijuana was legalized traffic fatalities went down.

There's also the part of the article that begins: "The study also finds..." You know, just in case you missed it.

You're right, I missed it. I just read it and I feel the same.

Here's what the news story says: "The study also finds that marijuana has the inverse effect that alcohol does on drivers. Drivers under the influence of alcohol tend to make rash decisions and risky moves, whereas those under the influence of marijuana tend to slow down, make safer choices, and increase following distances."

The actual research article said this, "In contrast, simulator and driving course studies provide only limited evidence that driving under the influence of marijuana leads to an increased risk of collision, perhaps as a result of compensatory driver behavior." That means that, compared to driving drunk driving high could be safer. But, that doesn't mean driving high is safer then driving without being under the influence of any substance.

Further, the research article says this, "However, because other mechanisms cannot be ruled out, the negative relationship between medical marijuana laws and alcohol-related traffic fatalities does not necessarily imply that driving under the influence of marijuana is safer than driving under the influence of alcohol." In this example, they are still comparing marijuana use to alcohol use. They aren't even trying to discuss the driving habits of those who are high versus those who are not under the influence of any drug.

Even fucking further, the research article states that they feel that marijuana is a substitute for alcohol which is why driving fatalities went down in these states. They don't say smoking marijuana makes you a safer driver like the news article suggests. The article even throws out issues with their conclusion (marijuana is a substitute for alcohol). One of these issues is, "Alcohol is often consumed in restaurants and bars, while many states prohibit the use of medical marijuana in public. Even where it is not explicitly prohibited, anecdotal evidence suggests that the public use of medical marijuana can be controversial. If marijuana consumption typically takes place at home, then designating a driver for the trip back from a restaurant or bar becomes unnecessary, and legalization could reduce traffic fatalities even if driving under the influence of marijuana is every bit as dangerous as driving under the influence of alcohol."

This is a case of a news article taking a research article and misrepresenting it. No where in the article that I could see does it state smoking marijuana can make people safer drivers. Really, it states smoking marijuana before driving is safer then drinking before driving. That's almost a worthless statement because that doesn't mean we should allow people to smoke weed before driving as we don't know if they are safer while high or not. All we know is that they are safer then if they were drunk (probably).

Here's the original research article for those that are interested: http://ftp.iza.org/dp6112.pdf

Excluding the medicinal example (for reasons that should be obvious), I can't say that I've ever met anyone whose life was improved when they started smoking dope; I have, however, observed that many people tremendously improve their lives when they give it up.

@Video_Game_King said:

I want it legalized just so the people advocating it shut the hell up.

Hey bro, take a hit of this and just relax.

Here are some reasons:

1. It makes people passive, meaning you cannot go to war with people who refuse war

2. It makes people feel good, meaning you can't sell side effect causing drugs to these manic depressives

3. It brings people to a higher spiritual level, meaning you can't sell people heaven and hell at the churches

4. It makes people see what they would usually ignore, meaning people will be able to make better decisions about the world

5. It needs to stay illegal, because the CIA can't produce and sell Mexican cocaine in the US

6. It needs to stay illegal, because the CIA can't produce and sell South American heroin in the US

7. It needs to stay illegal, because the CIA can't produce and sell Afghanistan opium in around the world

8. It needs to stay illegal, because Big Tobacco cannot sell their products, or create anti-drug commercials on TV

9. It needs to stay illegal, because Big Alcohol cannot sell their products, or create anti-drug commercials on TV

@Emilio said:

Here are some reasons:

1. It makes people passive, meaning you cannot go to war with people who refuse war

2. It makes people feel good, meaning you can't sell side effect causing drugs to these manic depressives

3. It brings people to a higher spiritual level, meaning you can't sell people heaven and hell at the churches

4. It makes people see what they would usually ignore, meaning people will be able to make better decisions about the world

5. It needs to stay illegal, because the CIA can't produce and sell Mexican cocaine in the US

6. It needs to stay illegal, because the CIA can't produce and sell South American heroin in the US

7. It needs to stay illegal, because the CIA can't produce and sell Afghanistan opium in around the world

8. It needs to stay illegal, because Big Tobacco cannot sell their products, or create anti-drug commercials on TV

9. It needs to stay illegal, because Big Alcohol cannot sell their products, or create anti-drug commercials on TVwhole world isn't a fucking conspiracy.

But what if the whole world isn't a fucking conspiracy?

But if you legalize marijuana, countless teens in their writing classes will have nothing to write about for their persuasive essays!

@TentPole:

Look, I'll write this to you, because I am certain no one else will read it: I have not been in this world for many years, but from the few years that have been given to me, I have seen many things, and I have heard many things, and I have read many things. I devoted a small portion of my life studying the past, and this is why I write these things. I will tell you keep away from researching any of these things yourself, because I believe that for a person like yourself, it is far easier to live ignorant of the truth. Now go back and play our video games for a high score, son. You make me proud!

Yeah but stoners are really annoying people. Seriously, I had to live with a bunch for a year.

You don't like alcohol; we get it.

There is also a correlation in increase in ice cream sales and drowning deaths so I think they should outlaw ice cream as well. Every experience I have had with people that have been high says that people that are high shouldn't be driving and I can't believe anybody would believe that a stoned person would be a better driver if they were a mile behind a car. I could see that maybe stoned people stay home and don't drive at all and that could be the link but that is about the only reason I could see marijuana as causing traffic fatalities to go down.

@Galiant said:

I can't believe alcohol is still legal. Substances less dangerous than alcohol are illegal, it makes no sense. I'd love to see all these pointless substances banned. The world would be a better place. Replacing a drug with another is not an improvement. Ban all that shit. You can claim you're a "responsible user" all you want, you're still a user and that in itself is irresponsible. Prescriptions for pain obviously don't count.

Fantastic idea! Better yet, why not also outlaw junk food, smoking, household chemicals, cars, cookers, glass containers, electricity and anything else that could potentially cause health problems, injury or death if used irresponsibly? Hell, if only we could all just live in some sort of hyper-sanitized, prison-like bubble where everything could be made of marshmallows, and anything that threatened to bring even the slightest amount of enjoyment or excitement to our pathetic, meaningless lives would be immediately destroyed "for our own protection". That way we'd all live to 200, provided we could resist the constant urge to tear open our wrists with our teeth.

@Elazul said:

@Galiant said:

I can't believe alcohol is still legal. Substances less dangerous than alcohol are illegal, it makes no sense. I'd love to see all these pointless substances banned. The world would be a better place. Replacing a drug with another is not an improvement. Ban all that shit. You can claim you're a "responsible user" all you want, you're still a user and that in itself is irresponsible. Prescriptions for pain obviously don't count.

Fantastic idea! Better yet, why not also outlaw junk food, smoking, household chemicals, cars, cookers, glass containers, electricity and anything else that could potentially cause health problems, injury or death if used irresponsibly? Hell, if only we could all just live in some sort of hyper-sanitized, prison-like bubble where everything could be made of marshmallows, and anything that threatened to bring even the slightest amount of enjoyment or excitement to our pathetic, meaningless lives would be immediately destroyed "for our own protection". That way we'd all live to 200, provided we could resist the constant urge to tear open our wrists with our teeth.

Oh man, where to begin with you. You're comparing junk food to drugs? I'd love to ban smoking, by the way. But that's besides the point.

Try listing the pros and cons of drugs. Give it a try. It's great for relieving pain if you're diagnosed with a terminal illness. Drunk people that drive have killed people. People with reduced inhibitions do things they otherwise wouldn't, sometimes resulting in the loss of lives or people being beaten within an inch of their life. Sometimes resulting in rape, broken families, addictions. Shall we get started on addictions? Loss of money? Homelessness? Killing people for money? For a fix?

You want to get high because it feels good. You want to drink so you can socialize and be able to pick up girls without feeling so damn shy. I'm sure the families of the victims of drug abuse would consider your very valid points. That'll bring their loved ones back. I'd love to see you tell the parents of a child lost to a drunk driver that we need to keep alcohol legal because your needs go before the life of their lost child. I once had to sit through a lecture many years ago where a parent who had lost his daughter to a drunk driver told us of his pain. I didn't need to hear that, I already knew driving while drunk was bad fucking news. I honestly think that the life of his daughter is more important than your use of your favorite drug, if only to take it away from those that would accidentally harm another.

I'm a realist. I know the "culture" of alcohol is too deep-rooted for anything to be done about it. So don't you fucking worry, you'll get your fix. That doesn't mean I have to approve of it. At least some drugs are still illegal.

@dudeglove said:

You don't like alcohol; we get it.

I still think of this.

Kind of some fact to it.

I'm kind of at an impasse: I mean, on the one hand, I am also constantly baffled by the fact that people will champion alcohol but rebuke any credibility thrown in marijuana's direction. But, on the other hand, I'm limited by my own ignorance and by the deluge of anti-marijuana material that is constantly forced down our throats--which, I'm ashamed to admit, has probably affected me irreparably. That said, I'm quite content with merely watching the slowly unravelling mystery behind the notorious drug: The taker of lives, the giver of dalliances, and the destroyer of minds.

Damn, way more people hating on pot in here than I would have expected.

Even if you don't personally like weed/think less of people who smoke it, (which seems pretty fucking judgmental in my opinion, but thats besides the point) can't you see the monetary benefits? The USA has an economy that is in the shitter at the moment, legalizing pot would help out a bunch. Plus its non-lethal, far safer than the alternatives (alcohol, cigs, etc.), mass consumed right now so there is an almost guaranteed market if it was legalized and regulated, and has some real medical value on top of its recreational uses(probably debatable on if its necessary instead of alternative drugs, but its hard to do a lot of research on an illegal substance ya know?).

I really can't think of any good reasons as to why it should be kept illegal while alcohol and cigarettes are sold in every gas station and convenience store you can find.

@jking47 said:

Damn, way more people hating on pot in here than I would have expected.

Even if you don't personally like weed/think less of people who smoke it, (which seems pretty fucking judgmental in my opinion, but thats besides the point) can't you see the monetary benefits? The USA has an economy is in the shitter at the moment, legalizing pot would help out a bunch. Plus its non-lethal, far safer than the alternatives (alcohol, cigs, etc.), mass consumed right now so there is an almost guaranteed market if it was legalized and regulated, and has some real medical value on top of its recreational uses(probably debatable on if its necessary instead of alternative drugs, but its hard to do a lot of research on an illegal substance ya know?).

I really can't think of any good reasons as to why it should be kept illegal while alcohol and cigarettes are sold in every gas station and convenience store you can find.

I just wanted to make something clear about what I put down in this thread (and I'm using your post as the platform to do it). I'm not necessarily for or against legalizing marijuana. But, if weed is to be legalized it needs to be done in a legitimate way. As I pointed out in my previous post, this news article took a research article and misrepresented what the researchers were trying to say. The news outlet took something and spun it to fit their agenda and that bothers me for a number of reasons.

If it is to legalized then fine. But don't contrive something from half-truths and misrepresentations.