I have a bad feeling Obama is going to win this election, and he's going to win for all the wrong reasons. The sad fact is that Obama isn't running against John McCain, he's running against a fictional opponent.
Obama couldn't win an election against McCain if he tried. McCain is fairly moderate politician who has had tons of experience in service to this country, both military and political. Obama is relatively new on the scene in comparison, and would have no chance against McCain if this election were being held in the year 2000, and Clinton just finished his presidency. Instead, Obama has decided it would be easier to run against George Bush, and many voters will indeed see "Bush" as Obama's true opponent. I can't really blame him either, as this is by far the best election strategy he could use.
The sad thing about this is that Obama has been able to run an extremely negative campaign without ever being called out on it. While republicans have to associate Obama with domestic terrorists, Obama gets to just say "he's another Bush" and nobody seems to view that as negative campaigning, when really that's about the most damaging thing you could accuse a republican of being at this point in their carreer, arguably much more so than "he hangs out with a former domestic terrorist."
Really, I think McCain and Obama both are "good guys" in their own opinions of themselves, and believe they have the country's best interests in mind, but I personally just agree with McCain's policies more than I do Obama. It's just a shame the candidate I support has so much stacked against him. But if McCain doesn't win this election, he can at least take comfort in the fact that Obama didn't beat him, Obama beat George Bush the third.
McCain has the same economic and military policies as George Bush. Obama is running against an ideology that has proven to be detrimental to our society. He is not running against John McCain as a person unlike John McCain who is running against Obama as a person, working to convince the American people that he is a dangerous man who cannot be trusted. The irony being, John McCain has run a dishonorable and deceitful campaign and his downfalls are his own doing.
If Obama wins it will because he beat John McCain, not George Bush. He has shown how John McCain's policies do not differ from George Bush, that John McCain is erratic as his indecisive actions have shown, that he is irresponsible as his choice for successor has shown, and how John McCain's NeoConservative movement is a last desperate plea to save the sinking ship that is the Republican party.
Obama has not run an extremely negative campaign, he has run an extremely honorable campaign. All politicians run negative ads, but to suggest that the man is a terrorist and a Muslim (which he is not, if he was why would that be a problem?) and a foreigner and a threat would even make McCarthy blush.
Saying McCain is just another Bush is comparing a 90% voting record in accordance to Bush's policies, that is not negative campaigning. That's pointing out the facts. To attempt to de-Americanize Obama and label him as an elite and a socialist is both false and insulting. Obama has lived the American dream by working his way from nothing to become a cultural figure head and a potential leader to this country.
John McCain's pitfalls are of no fault but of his own.
I don't know who will win, because no one can really predict the outcome of an election with any certainty. But it is undeniable that Obama has run an absolutely brilliant campaign and has demonstrated his ability to organize and move forward with opportunity and ideals, to suggest diplomacy and peace rather than belligerant and careless action. John McCain's campaign has been a disaster and one's ability to effectively organize the masses and dictate his own actions and weigh them against the potential consequences, to keep a level head in the face of a crisis, and to be truthful to supporters is what executive action really is. That is something that Obama has succeeded brilliantly at and to suggest now that he is unprepared, that he has no executive experience is laughable at best.
Sure McCain has been in politics longer but he has become nothing other than the steriotypical politician that people have grown to despise. And experience means nothing if you lack judgement, as a man who sings about bombing Iran and speaks of a fundamentally strong economy in the process of an economic collapse clearly lacks judgement.
No SpaceInsomniac, Obama has run against John McCain and he has succeeded in doing so. Who will win and who will lose is another matter and we will see who will be the new President in the coming hours; however, to claim that a man epitomizing the American dream and the inspiration that it embodies is not in the right to expose the flaws in our country and expose problems of the conservative movement and idealogy, is absolutely ridiculous.
You are wrong SpaceInsomniac and it would be in your best interest to learn what it is you're talking about before you do so.
Blah blah blah, he's another Bush. Blah blah blah, you are wrong. Blah blah blah, you don't know what you're talking about.
Thank you for proving my point.
One thing we can agree on is that Obama has run a very smart campaign. To be honest, Obama would have to be foolish NOT to compare McCain to Bush, so I really can't blame him for doing so.
Zebadee said:
"Last time I checked Giant Bomb was a video game website, have I missed something?"
Yep, this is the off-topic section of a gaming forum, and it's election day. I fought for the ability to hide off-topic from the main forum page for this very reason, which means if you just want to focus on gaming threads, you are perfectly welcome to do just that, and you have no reason to complain about threads like this.
Blah blah blah, he's another Bush. Blah blah blah, you are wrong. Blah blah blah, you don't know what you're talking about.
Thank you for proving my point.
One thing we can agree on is that Obama has run a very smart campaign. To be honest, Obama would have to be foolish NOT to compare McCain to Bush, so I really can't blame him for doing so."
Blah, blah, blah, he's another Bush? Can you explain how he isn't? Please, I would love you to elaborate on how their policies differ. If not, then I don't think you can say that it isn't valid to say as such.
Yep, this is the off-topic section of a gaming forum, and it's election day. I fought for the ability to hide off-topic from the main forum page for this very reason, which means if you just want to focus on gaming threads, you are perfectly welcome to do just that, and you have no reason to complain about threads like this."
Fair enough, I wasn't complaining, I just can't understand why someone would want to talk about politics here. I know if I myself wanted to get into a decent discussion on politics I wouldn't choose this site to do it. In the first reply you received you got told to get off the mushrooms :P
Another either really stupid topic by Insomniac that proves he has no idea what he's talking about (nice copy paste by the way, those aren't even your words), or another really stupid troll. Take your pick, fellows.
"Another either really stupid topic by Insomniac that proves he has no idea what he's talking about (nice copy paste by the way, those aren't even your words), or another really stupid troll. Take your pick, fellows."
The only "trolling thread" I've created was the last one about Obama and democrats wanting to keep the poor people down. I don't actually believe that, and believe both parties feel that they're doing what's right for America. I was just trying to piss off the people who keep flooding the forum with hateful anti-McCain crap. Everything else has been my own opinion, and my own words. I'll also admit to being an awful speller, which is why that was copy/pasted from a word document.
And this isn't a democrat forum any more than it's a republican forum, so I can't be trolling it. If anything, if I make a pro-McCain thread and you enter it to give me shit and call me wrong, that would mean YOU are trolling.
Blah blah blah, he's another Bush. Blah blah blah, you are wrong. Blah blah blah, you don't know what you're talking about.
Thank you for proving my point.
One thing we can agree on is that Obama has run a very smart campaign. To be honest, Obama would have to be foolish NOT to compare McCain to Bush, so I really can't blame him for doing so.
Zebadee said:
"Last time I checked Giant Bomb was a video game website, have I missed something?"
Yep, this is the off-topic section of a gaming forum, and it's election day. I fought for the ability to hide off-topic from the main forum page for this very reason, which means if you just want to focus on gaming threads, you are perfectly welcome to do just that, and you have no reason to complain about threads like this."
You are incredibly immature. You cannot even address a single comment without erasing the quote and replacing it with "blah, blah, blah" which proves MY point, that you do not know what you're talking about.
"Another either really stupid topic by Insomniac that proves he has no idea what he's talking about (nice copy paste by the way, those aren't even your words), or another really stupid troll. Take your pick, fellows."
The only "trolling thread" I've created was the last one about Obama and democrats wanting to keep the poor people down. I don't actually believe that, and believe both parties feel that they're doing what's right for America. I was just trying to piss off the people who keep flooding the forum with anti-McCain crap. Everything else has been my own opinion, and my own words. I'll also admit to being an awful speller, which is why that was copy/pasted from a word document.
And this isn't a democrat forum any more than it's a republican forum, so I can't be trolling it. If anything, if I make a pro-McCain thread and you enter it to give me shit and call me wrong, that would mean YOU are trolling. And zebadee, you may have a good point. ; ) "
You are really a moron. You know that right? If anyone gives you facts about John McCain, statistics, analysis, and comparison to Obama and you disagree with it, you just say "blah, blah, blah" c im rite! The reason why everyone sees you for what you are, a troll, is because you're not willing to have a conversation and when someone disagrees with you, YOU CAN'T EVEN GIVE A RESPONSE!
"Another either really stupid topic by Insomniac that proves he has no idea what he's talking about (nice copy paste by the way, those aren't even your words), or another really stupid troll. Take your pick, fellows."
The only "trolling thread" I've created was the last one about Obama and democrats wanting to keep the poor people down. I don't actually believe that, and believe both parties feel that they're doing what's right for America. I was just trying to piss off the people who keep flooding the forum with anti-McCain crap. Everything else has been my own opinion, and my own words. I'll also admit to being an awful speller, which is why that was copy/pasted from a word document.
And this isn't a democrat forum any more than it's a republican forum, so I can't be trolling it. If anything, if I make a pro-McCain thread and you enter it to give me shit and call me wrong, that would mean YOU are trolling. And zebadee, you may have a good point. ; ) "
Learn how to define a troll. You don't have to make it applicable to the entire forum's base to be one. Me coming in and calling you a troll (rightfully) or telling you you're wrong is not trolling, it's offering a counter opinion. There's a difference in the noticeable intention of causing extreme griefing or just offering an opinion. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that the original post is just plain stupid.
Here's your response: The stuff people REALLY hate about Bush, doesn't apply to McCain. McCain doesn't support the erosion of our civil liberties. He doesn't support allowing America to torture our prisoners under some stupid "enhanced interrogation" bullshit. He's not going to go on national TV and tell America that God told him to start a war. He's not an awful public speaker that will sound stupid at least half the time he opens his mouth. I could go on, but I'm not going to, because it's pointless to do so.
The thing is, I could ask you to name a single piece of important legislation Obama has ever passed, and whatever you named I could just either downplay the importance of that legislation, or downplay Obama's hand in its creation. Just as I've seen people do that to Obama's record, there's nothing I could say about the differences between McCain and Bush that would cause you to change your mind. No matter what I said, you would say there aren't enough differences and they're still too much alike.
And yes, McCain is going to be closer to Bush than Obama, but McCain and Bush are both from the same party, so how could he not be? The difference is that while "Maverick" might be pushing things a bit, McCain is still FAR more of a party outsider than Obama, who nearly always votes along party lines. McCain is not another Bush, but he is a republican (albeit a moderate one), and I think that's what you really have a problem with.
The fact remains, if this election was held in the year 2000, McCain would win in a landslide.
And how exactly is voting along party lines, if you agree with them, a bad thing? Obama is the change candidate because what he is offering is far and away different than what McCain is. Obama is very liberal, yup. He votes for the things Democrats care about, because he cares about them. He brings change not because of his record in the party, but because of his record in contrast with the failed policies of the last 8 years, 90% of which John McCain has supported and still does.
Learn how to define a troll. You don't have to make it applicable to the entire forum's base to be one. Me coming in and calling you a troll (rightfully) or telling you you're wrong is not trolling, it's offering a counter opinion. There's a difference in the noticeable intention of causing extreme griefing or just offering an opinion. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that the original post is just plain stupid."
The only trolls in this thread are Jayge and BiggerBomb - coming into a topic and calling someone or their ideas stupid is trolling. Knock it off and let's get this back on topic, please. Namecalling is never allowed here, I'm sure you guys can come up with better ways of expressing your opinions. If you can't - don't post. Thanks.
Any further off-topic or flame posts will be deleted.
"Here's your response: The stuff people REALLY hate about Bush, doesn't apply to McCain. McCain doesn't support the erosion of our civil liberties. He doesn't support allowing America to torture our prisoners under some stupid "enhanced interrogation" bullshit. He's not going to go on national TV and tell America that God told him to start a war. He's not an awful public speaker that will sound stupid at least half the time he opens his mouth. I could go on, but I'm not going to, because it's pointless to do so.
The thing is, I could ask you to name a single piece of important legislation Obama has ever passed, and whatever you named I could just either downplay the importance of that legislation, or downplay Obama's hand in its creation. Just as I've seen people do that to Obama's record, there's nothing I could say about the differences between McCain and Bush that would cause you to change your mind. No matter what I said, you would say there aren't enough differences and they're still too much alike.
And yes, McCain is going to be closer to Bush than Obama, but McCain and Bush are both from the same party, so how could he not be? The difference is that while "Maverick" might be pushing things a bit, McCain is still FAR more of a party outsider than Obama, who nearly always votes along party lines. McCain is not another Bush, but he is a republican (albeit a moderate one), and I think that's what you really have a problem with.
The fact remains, if this election was held in the year 2000, McCain would win in a landslide."
I would rather vote for George Bush than for John McCain. He's arguably a better person. In terms of not going on national TV and saying "god started this war", no, he hasn't done that. He's just manipulated his entire party's base by choosing a VP that claims this as truth. As for being an awful public speaker, he sure as hell wouldn't win any awards. McCain and Bush are definitely different. Obama has strong arguments against both of them, and rightly so. And in terms of voting along party lines- who cares? I'd rather a candidate have a consistently far-left voting record then gravitating toward the center to appease pundits or bolster a record with stupid hype terms. The idea that bi-partisan legislation somehow qualifies you as a better political-office-holder is flawed and bunk.
I have to agree with one thing - much of Obama's campaign has been focused around the fact that he's not George Bush. Well, no freakin duh. McCain even jumped on that bandwagon later on by distancing himself from President Bush and adopting Obama's "We Need Change" mantra. It was probably too little, too late though.
It doesn't really matter what I think though - I live in California and I wrote in Ron Paul. The Electoral College really sucks.
"I have to agree with one thing - much of Obama's campaign has been focused around the fact that he's not George Bush. Well, no freakin duh. McCain even jumped on that bandwagon later on by distancing himself from President Bush and adopting Obama's "We Need Change" mantra. It was probably too little, too late though.
It doesn't really matter what I think though - I live in California and I wrote in Ron Paul. The Electoral College really sucks."
The enemy of my enemy, grass is always greener etc.
I live in the uk so i must admit to not being as fully briefed as my foreign cousins - however its simple, if the bush administration fucked things up as badly as they seem to have done - then as humans we do the most (seemingly) reasonable thing and go as far away from that as possible.
I personally dont rate either candidate -not for their flaws, but they are politicians after all, but the thought of palin scares the shite out of me, that is one abomination of a human being and her being near anything other than a padded cell is a bad future for mankind in general.
That and the troops need to come home, im a military child and moved to zones around the world with my dad -could not be more proud and fully supportive of the initial war on terrorism (though maybe not the reasons)
But man, those guys have been dying without support for too long, bring em on home and rebuild our world guys --its the way
EDIT:- sorry bout the shrooms -i thought you were tripping balls bout invisible presidents bro :D
"I have to agree with one thing - much of Obama's campaign has been focused around the fact that he's not George Bush. Well, no freakin duh. McCain even jumped on that bandwagon later on by distancing himself from President Bush and adopting Obama's "We Need Change" mantra. It was probably too little, too late though.
It doesn't really matter what I think though - I live in California and I wrote in Ron Paul. The Electoral College really sucks."
The enemy of my enemy, grass is always greener etc.
I live in the uk so i must admit to not being as fully briefed as my foreign cousins - however its simple, if the bush administration fucked things up as badly as they seem to have done - then as humans we do the most (seemingly) reasonable thing and go as far away from that as possible.
I personally dont rate either candidate, but the thought of palin scares the shite out of me, that is one abomination of a human being and her being near anything other than a padded cell is a bad future for mankind in general.
That and the troops need to come home, im a military child and moved to zones around the world with my dad -could not be more proud and fully supportive of the initial war on terrorism (though maybe not the reasons)
But man, those guys have been dying without support for too long, bring em on home and rebuild our world guys --its the way
McCain was a good man until he became a Bush fan just to get the conservative vote, I voted Obama but if McCain was the same as he was in 2000, I woulda considered him
>The sad fact is that Obama isn't running against John McCain, he's running against a fictional opponent.
George W. is fictional? That it explains a lot, although truth is stranger than fiction. Whoever used that fictional to real life converter on these Bush/Cheney/McCain/Palin "characters" must have been some dystopian science fiction writer. Most reasonable people know they're just similar - they are in the same party, so even if that 90% thing wasn't true, they would have similarities. Some supporters try that "maverick" thing (implying the rest of the Republicans were wrong) or some plead "well he was a Republican and what's wrong with going with your party?" (well look what that party did from 2000-2006)
>and would have no chance against McCain if this election were being held in the year 2000 and Clinton just >finished his presidency.
Al Gore had similar problems. Many people voted against them because of Willygate and people said that he said he "invented the internet." Gore went on to win a Nobel prize and we all know the rest with Bush.
>The sad thing about this is that Obama has been able to run an extremely negative campaign without ever >being called out on it. While republicans have to associate Obama with domestic terrorists
You can say negative things about your opponent as long as your honest and truthful. Here's some things said about Obama: He was born in Hawaii - true, but why mention it unless you're implying he's almost a foreigner (dishonest). What's even more laughable is that McCain was born in a base in Panama. Did the people who used the Hawaii angle know where John McCain was born? I don't see why not. But they threw it out there anyways because they wanted to get support of ignorant people who fall for that crap and won't check to see where McCain was born, but just collect any thing "negative" about Obama they can find.
His mother was on welfare - I'd rather have someone born from welfare than someone that was "groomed" for their positions.
Mention his middle name - see above, but add that terrorist angle to it.
Muslim - even if true, who cares what religion he is (unless you're a whacked out fundie)?
Terrorism - He shook hands with some guy some time ago, he might have smiled at him too. Give it a rest.
Inexperienced - He's been in the state Senate since 1997 and has moved up. Not as much as McCain, but enough that he's not green and I think other factors outweigh it, also I think there are benefits for not being in politics for too long. But what does Palin and 9/11 Juliani point out? That he was a "community organizer" (I think they added air quotes, but I'm not sure) i.e. he didn't really do anything.
Socialist/Marxist - Just because a plan has a tenet of socialism, doesn't make you a socialist. And is it so horrible to make rich people pay their fair share?
He's a new Hitler - Hitler was charismatic and Obama is too, ergo they must be the same. This is the most baffling one.
His aunt is in the country illegally - maybe, but who cares? Everyone has relatives like that.
So a round of applause goes to McCain, the Conservative Spinsters, makers of Youtube anti-Obama videos, etc.: you turned thousands of people away and helped Obama more if you wouldn't have done those things. I wonder what that Conservative think tank's plan will be for 2012.
I'm an ardent Obama supporter, and I agree--he is running against a fictional candidate... A John McCain crafted by straight-edge Republicans. By losing everything he was about eight years ago, he's lost any respect he once had in the political system from independents. The "maverick" from yesteryear is long gone, and the only way he can maintain any sort of endorsement with the Republican base is to play ball (as the second string quarterback, who only gets into the game because the first string can't play this time around--Bush).
To put it simply: You're wrong, and if you don't like Obama as president, I've heard Expedia is offering some great deals right now. Obama will be the next President of the United States, and we will be much better off for it.
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