somebody explain why America does not want universal health care

The NHS might not be the best in the world but it does work, and it works for everybody. We just need to refine it and make it work better. If that makes me a communist to some people, I couldn't give a fuck.

I don't understand how Public Healthcare is seen as an evil socialist scheme while Public Schooling is not. 
 
From my knowledge of the US healthcare system, I'm very happy I've had the luxury of living in Australia & Canada under their respective healthcare systems.

" @ThatFrood: So what you are saying is that the free market "every man for himself" attitude has created a group of people with no sense of personal or social reponsibility that is incapable of functioning within any socialy minded framework, which causes the lower eschelons of society to suffer because they have essentially lost at economic musical chairs? Interesting... "

" @ThatFrood: So what you are saying is that the free market "every man for himself" attitude has created a group of people with no sense of personal or social reponsibility that is incapable of functioning within any socialy minded framework, which causes the lower eschelons of society to suffer because they have essentially lost at economic musical chairs? Interesting... "

" Its been on the new in the UK for a few days now about Obama's health care reform . Now coming from a country that has a national health service i cant see why people have strong views against this reformation ....  can somebdy explain ? "

" The NHS might not be the best in the world but it does work, and it works for everybody. We just need to refine it and make it work better. If that makes me a communist to some people, I couldn't give a fuck. "

" @jonnyboy said:

" The NHS might not be the best in the world but it does work, and it works for everybody. We just need to refine it and make it work better. If that makes me a communist to some people, I couldn't give a fuck. "

IN THEORY communism has some good ideas ... too bad human nature get in the way ..somebody always has to be more powerful . "

" @nintendoeats said:

" @ThatFrood: So what you are saying is that the free market "every man for himself" attitude has created a group of people with no sense of personal or social reponsibility that is incapable of functioning within any socialy minded framework, which causes the lower eschelons of society to suffer because they have essentially lost at economic musical chairs? Interesting... "

You can't argue with the fundamentals of American Democracy that were laid out by the Constitution. Every man starts out equal and whatever happens later is a product of only his hard work. "

" @Jeffsekai: Fbomb is Canadian, and you're is a contraction. "

This is a loaded question. Honestly most Americans just don't realize that universal health care is a great idea yet they tend to just believe what ever media outlets tell them which is usually loaded with lies.
 
1. Canada does not have to wait forever to be treated, the average wait time is around 30 minutes where Americans have to wait hours sometimes to hear from their Health care if it's okay to get surgery.
 
2. Health care agents in America are paid extra for denying health care issues. Like how they will argue if you lose 2 fingers that one is okay but the other is experimental to reattach. It doesn't make sense but by the time you can fight it, which most people don't because people will eat any bullshit lies fed to them, it will be too late to do anything about it.

" @Fbomb: I don't disagree with you're thesis. I just don't trust decade old statistics on complicated systems. You are probably right, but we have no real way of judging that. "

Tax concerns was one of the reasons I remember reading.

" @nintendoeats said:

" @ThatFrood: So what you are saying is that the free market "every man for himself" attitude has created a group of people with no sense of personal or social reponsibility that is incapable of functioning within any socialy minded framework, which causes the lower eschelons of society to suffer because they have essentially lost at economic musical chairs? Interesting... "

You can't argue with the fundamentals of American Democracy that were laid out by the Constitution. Every man starts out equal and whatever happens later is a product of only his hard work. "

People fear change.  And taxes.  People don't like the idea of "free-loaders".  I'm all for universal health care, though.  Everyone has the right to good health, not just the wealthy.

You can't be that naive, can you?  People in this country don't start out equal.  The conditions surrounding my childhood in this country innately sets me at a disadvantage compared to some, and an advatnage compared to others.  Geography, race, wealth, all of these are factors that take whatever semblance of equality and chucks it out the window. " 

 @turbomonkey138:  
This is really difficult for a lot of people to come to a concise answer about. People are either too proud, or ignorant to see things from both sides, and most Americans are far too lazy to go out and do their own research on the subject when it is spoon fed to us everyday by Fox News, and CNN. In the simplest terms, the main reason most do not want it is due to fear of change and fear of the unknown. People are scared that taxes are going to go up, or we are going to go bankrupt (we already are), or that they will have to go on a waiting list if they need a heart, a lung, or a blood transfusion. It all boils down to fear, fear of change and something we aren't use to and now days it seems like that is how the US gov likes controlling the masses. Another big issue is that a lot of people know just how shity, corrupt and unintelligent the U.S. gov really is, and again, people fear that anything that they might come up with as a solution would simply be "half ass'd" or "they would find some way to really mess it up." As for me, I'm for it, I was just laid off from my job a few weeks ago due to "economic climate decline" that means i have lost all my jobs insurance benefits, meaning that if i get in a wreck or get cancer, i would either have to refuse treatment due to being unable to afford it, or go through with what i need but would owe the medical provider hundreds of thousands of dollars. I can keep my old job's benifits, but would have to pay a 3rd party company roughly about 300-400% more then what it cost when it was simply deducted from my pay check. Or take my G/F for example. She goes to college full time, and works full time, but her place of work does not offer health benefits, meaning she is roughly in the same boat as me, yet she goes to school and works full time. I feel that a national health care plan would be good news for people such as us, and people in our, or similar situations. But again, this is the U.S. Gov we are talking about and I'm sure they will find a way to mess it up for us even if they do happen to get the plan passed.

" @chrissedoff said:

" @turbomonkey138:  the vast majority of americans do want health care.  unfortunately, health care reform would adversely affect the profits of health insurance companies, who have a lot of money to throw around--and a lot of politicians willing to shill for them--in order to drag proposed reform through the mud and tar its proponents as anti-american communists. smears like that stick when they're repeated often enough. the fact that countries besides america have functioning health care systems doesn't help; many americans believe in a strange circular logic which dictates no other country can be better than america at anything. therefore, american health care is the best around. therefore, adopting practices from foreign countries can only taint the purity of american health care.  a large segment of the american population does not have adequate health care coverage. but, the majority of americans do have decent coverage which they receive either from their employer or from government-assisted coverage like medicare for seniors. this can contribute to ignorance of the trouble un-covered people go through, and even a callous "fuck you, i got mine" attitude. americans hate the idea of someone receiving a "free ride" on their tax dollars. and for some people, mainly the fox news-watching crowd, a big part of being against health care reform is going to benefit minorities, who they don't see as being "real" americans. "

I think you just lost all credibility when you basically called all Republicans racists. "

" @Clinkz: MSNBC gave Joe Scarborough a 3 hour show.  Any democrat get than find of time on Fox News?  They are 1000x more fair than Fox confirmed. "

i don't know why but im happy up here in Canada with my FREE good health care and anybody who says differently ill cut your fingers off and they will only attach 1 back on!

Because national healthcare uses the metric system?

  1. Canada does not have to wait forever to be treated, the average wait time is around 30 minutes where Americans have to wait hours sometimes to hear from their Health care if it's okay to get surgery. 

There should be both a public and private option.  
@Clinkz : I really hate all "news" outlets such as fox and msnbc because they don't give you the dry facts. They gussy it up to make it play to a crowd that would not normally pay attention to news. They have reverted to the internet age of who can get more clicks. I am what you would call a moderate and my stepfather is a very christian man. I love him to death and we disagree on a fair amount of things except for one: Fox, MSNC, and other "news" outlets are just plain disgusting. Also, is it fair to have a hardworking man lose his pension just before retirement because some greedy bastard who started out of college with no sense of what hard work actually is took the company for everything it was worth? I don't think so. Our system is not fair. There is no system that is, but it should never be that damn ruthless

" @chrissedoff said: Oh!!! So that's why they let Democrats like Geraldo Rivera and Juan Williams on their network: To slander the Democratic party and enchance the Republican outlook!       Seriously man? "

" @turbomonkey138 said:

" @jonnyboy said:

" The NHS might not be the best in the world but it does work, and it works for everybody. We just need to refine it and make it work better. If that makes me a communist to some people, I couldn't give a fuck. "

IN THEORY communism has some good ideas ... too bad human nature get in the way ..somebody always has to be more powerful . "

Humans are why we can't have nice things. 
 
In all honesty the flaws in capitalism are also rearing their ugly heads. The thing is the US just did a really good job of covering them up throughout the past century or so. Either way at this point in time the best systems are the ones that employ equal measures of socialism and capitalism as needed, at least until we find something better.
 
@Clinkz said:

" @nintendoeats said:

" @ThatFrood: So what you are saying is that the free market "every man for himself" attitude has created a group of people with no sense of personal or social reponsibility that is incapable of functioning within any socialy minded framework, which causes the lower eschelons of society to suffer because they have essentially lost at economic musical chairs? Interesting... "

You can't argue with the fundamentals of American Democracy that were laid out by the Constitution. Every man starts out equal and whatever happens later is a product of only his hard work. "

The fundamentals of American democracy are not naturally tied to economic systems defined by capitalism. There can be other ways. In fact I would bet your founding fathers are probably rolling in their graves right now. The US is the definition of capitalism run amok right now. "

THIS

I fear that Universal Healthcare is a death warrant to many whom I love and care for.  People who support the bill are too near-sided to see the adverse effects that this bill will cause. 
 
Healthcare, like any other service, has two values attached to itself.  A real value, and a monetary value.  The government believes that eliminating the direct monetary value to healthcare will solve the system in the United States, it will not.  In reality the cost will be just the same, only it will be incurred with waiting in line to get health service.  Proponents for healthcare don't realize that:
A) America has a much larger population than Canada or the  UK.  With 300+ million people the scale of this bill is a lot larger than the systems in place in those countries.  
B)  This healthcare bill will improve the coverage of non-life threatening illness, but it will greatly decrease the coverage of cancer and other life-threatening disease.  There will be waiting lists for things like transplants and important surgeries.
C) Many medical practices will close shop due to the cost,, meaning less options in getting treatment.   
D) America wont even be able to afford this system in the long run.  Some more liberal estimates state that the system can be paid for an upwards of 10 years before it goes bankrupt.    
E) The free-market is the reason why healthcare is as good as it is today.  Restrictions placed on the healthcare system will reduce innovation and research of new technology.  Technology that has only been invented because companies have had profits as an incentive to develop these technologies.  Universal Healthcare will cut these opportunities for profit, meaning R&D of new technology will not be able to continue.  
F) Small business will get hit will extra taxes for health coverage, meaning larger unemployment, meaning less paying into the system, meaning less efficiency. 
 
People who argue against healthcare aren't ignorants boobs as most like to think.  And I mean what I say about a death warrant, it is inevitable that in the future those close to me will get cancer, or some sort of ailment that will require treatment, but since socialized healthcare means rationing of resources by forming lines, those who really need urgent treatment will be forced to wait in line in a bogged down system, and many will die at an earlier age because of this. 
 
This isn't a matter about Conservative vs. Liberal, Republican vs. Democrat, Rich vs. Poor, Educated vs. Uneducated as most make it out to be.  In reality the economics of this bill doesn't add up and will not work in the long run.

" Because it will Bankrupt our country and universal health care sucks.  Canada has rather poor health care and the have "universal health care".  Our system isn't that bad right now, and it isn't the insurance companies causing the problems.  It's the $100 bandaids at hospitals causing it. "

There's nothing inherently problematic with Universal Healthcare (well, other than how much it would cost) as long as private insurance companies are allowed to compete with the government-run public option. We've all seen how well a government-run program can be run (i.e. Tricare) but we've also seen how poorly it can be run (i.e. Medicare, Medicaid). What's the lesson here? It's all about money. Tricare works because it's a very expensive program, and the same can be said for Medicare and Medicaid on the other end of the spectrum. So whatever the public option would be (assuming it is passed one of these days) it's going to be very expensive if it's indeed going to be a well run program.  It's when the public option becomes the only option where the serious problems begin to emerge. A government monopoly on heathcare would be a very bad idea and a direct affront to personal liberty (even if it were a well-run program).

" 1. It will bankrupt the country even more so than it already is. 2. Its a blatant grab of power by the government over all health care options and also in this 2300 page monstrosity it tries to sneak in control of other things to such as education.3. The quality of the check ups will diminish as this public takeover will run out many private doctors. "

There's nothing that precludes a private health system operating alongside a public system. It happens in countries all across the world. "

Its a cultural and political thing. Americans don't like having the idea that minority groups benefit off of their taxpayers money and have for a long time been influenced by rightist ideas throughout the cold war. Political idealogy does not go away within a few years after all of that nonsense. It'll take generations for them to change their ideals.
 
Plus it'll bankrupt the nation. Quite frankly I can't see how this is going to work when there's somewhat of a economic recession out there.

politicians are making it more complicated than it needs to be, we really don't have the money right now, people don't want to federally fund abortions.

" @Ravenousrattler: america doesn't have the money to do anything really. that is not an intelligent argument against health-care reform. if the country's dire financial straits were something that anyone actually cared, about, people would be talking seriously about raising the ridiculously low income tax rates for rich people. the country's out of money. the question is really do you want to be out of money and let everyone have decent health care or just out of money with nothing to show for it. "

" 1. It will bankrupt the country even more so than it already is. 2. Its a blatant grab of power by the government over all health care options and also in this 2300 page monstrosity it tries to sneak in control of other things to such as education.3. The quality of the check ups will diminish as this public takeover will run out many private doctors. "

Because the bill in its current mutilated, bastardized form isn't close to universal healthcare as you know it.
 
What it boils down to is forcing people who are uninsured to buy a private insurance plan, and a) Americans hate being forced to do anything by our government and b) a lot of my countrymen are retarded and believe the negative propaganda, fear tactics, and lies being broadcast from some media outlets and are very vocal about it.
 
Thats how I see it anyway.

" 1. It will bankrupt the country even more so than it already is. 2. Its a blatant grab of power by the government over all health care options and also in this 2300 page monstrosity it tries to sneak in control of other things to such as education.3. The quality of the check ups will diminish as this public takeover will run out many private doctors. "

" Because it's seen as communist by the extremist right wingers in Washington. I also come from a country with a publicly funded health care system and it works out great! "

" Because the bill in its current mutilated, bastardized form isn't close to universal healthcare as you know it.  What it boils down to is forcing people who are uninsured to buy a private insurance plan, and a) Americans hate being forced to do something by our government and b) a lot of my countrymen are retarded and believe the negative propaganda, fear tactics, and lies being broadcast from some media outlets and are very vocal about it.  Thats how I see it anyway. "

We can't afford it. Medicare is basically universal health care for a specific age bracket and its coffers are nearly empty. And if we could afford it, we'd still have 3 health insurance lobbyists per representative making sure the misinformation talking points continue to circulate. People trying to pin it on one side over another are just being petty, living in a fantasy world. The reality is the current healthcare bill has an individual mandate, and nobody's contesting that on either side. So they're forcing you to bye for profit health care. Not the left, not the right, all of them. Because they think you can afford to lose another 8 percent of your yearly income if it means 30 million more people are insured (and if they're not, that they're paying fines). 
Its such a bag of dicks I can't watch the news anymore till its over.

because we owe 13 trillion fucking dollars. we're in a war. and among many other serious issues, i think we have enough on our plate right now thankyou very much. obama care needs to take a back seat for a while. this shit is for people who only care about themselves and live off the system anyways. well i mean i know its for more than just that, but you know millions will abuse it just like they are now, costing tax payers millions every year that could be spent on something worthwile. fucking freeloading low lifes are ruining this fucking country- destroying neighborhoods, creating violence, uncontrollably procreating and usually at young ages...and they just keep collecint their wic and access cards and section 8 housing and so on and so forth. well this is just how it is in philly. im so fed up with it. seriously though, we're 13 trillion dollars in debt, and obama's number one goal right now is free healthcare?!!

Turbomonkey, why you gotta go startin' shit

" because we owe 13 trillion fucking dollars. we're in a war. and among many other serious issues, i think we have enough on our plate right now thankyou very much. obama care needs to take a back seat for a while. this shit if for people who only care about themselves and live off the system anyways.  "

Because of two main reasons. The first being that our government doesn't really know how to explain things to us, if they explained universal healthcare in a way the average american could understand then we'd be more accepting of it. And secondly, the media scares the hell out of people in this country because they need ratings. They have actually compared universal health care to what Hitler did back in the 40s and people believe it as though it were accurate. So its a double whammy of stupidity.