Star Wars vs Star Trek

Star Wars mainly for the expanded universe, there have been so many good Star Wars video games, comic books, books, toys, etc. Star Trek has none of that.

Star Trek lives. Star Wars, along with that fucking no talent hack named George Lucas, can die in a fire. If this was just the original trilogy then it would easily be the other way, but that man has raped and molested his own IP beyond belief, redemption, or hope. It's a damn shame too because Empire is one of the greatest science fiction movies ever made.

I (obviously) have to go with Star Wars here. There are certainly many things that have happened in Star Wars that I do not care for, but I still enjoy the franchise more than Trek. Of course that's not saying I hate Star Trek either, I just like it less than Star Wars.

Star Trek.

"Your honor, the courtroom is a crucible; in it, we burn away irrelevancies until we are left with a purer product: the truth, for all time. Now sooner or later, this man – or others like him – will succeed in replicating Commander Data. The decision you reach here today will determine how we will regard this creation of our genius. It will reveal the kind of people we are; what he is destined to be. It will reach far beyond this courtroom and this one android. It could significantly redefine the boundaries of personal liberty and freedom: expanding them for some, savagely curtailing them for others. Are you prepared to condemn him – and all who will come after him – to servitude and slavery? Your honor, Starfleet was founded to seek out new life: well, there it sits! Waiting."

I choose bolth.

@Rohok said:

@flindip said:

@Tylea002 said:

Star Trek. It was better than Star Wars from the beginning, and it is better now.

Star Wars never truly clicked. The first 2 films are good, a case can be made for great movies, but beyond that there's nothing exciting there. Star Trek on it's best day can take down Star Wars on it's best day. Basically, what I'm saying, is First Contact > Empire Strikes Back.

I cannot imagine how anyone can think Star Trek: First Contact is better than Empire Strikes Back on any level. Irregardless if you prefer Star Wars or Star Trek, Empire Strikes Back is one of the greatest genre pictures of all time. That film transcends the Star Wars franchise and its an important cultural film. The technical achievements, and cinematography alone(not to mention musical score)are unbelievable. I mean you didn't even pick a quality Star Trek film. None of the Next Generation films were good on any level. A couple of them were even worse than the Star Wars prequels(but nobody remembers because nobody saw them).

You're an idiot.

Don't get me wrong, Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars movie and a really awesome one in general, but I prefer first contact. I watched them both as a child, and First Contact had more of an effect; The Borg are terrifying excellent villains. The story is tense and filled with subtext that you wouldn't expect, obviously there's the whole Human vs Machine but there's also Communism vs Capitalism done really subtly (Star Trek is technically a communist society, in terms of the ideal not how it's put in practise, but there's a point when Picard acts rather dictator like, which is contrasted with Cochrane on earth) and Picard's character journey of revenge is better than Luke's. So when comparing, in my opinion, the best par, t in each franchise, Star Trek comes out on top for me.

Also, when Star Trek gets really bad, I can still watch and enjoy it. There's something undefinable about the feel of trek that will hook me into a story no matter how bad the story turns out to be (the new Trek film does not have this feel), whereas when Star Wars gets really bad it goes into stupid nonsense fantasy bullshit. Prophecies are dumb storytelling devices.

For the first three movies, Star Wars. Even though Star Trek had that awesome J. J. Abrams movie, and Star Wars has had... everything since Return of the Jedi, there is just too much Star Trek I have absolutely no interest in. I.e. all of it, except the reboot. Star Trek was always too nerdy for my particular tastes. I'm not saying I'm not a nerd, because I certainly am, but Star Wars took all the cool parts of sci-fi and applied them to characters and worlds that had much more general and down to earth appeal to them. Trek was stilted, overly self-serious and entrenched in geekdom in a way I just can't identify with. Star Wars was geekdom for the people.

@Tylea002 said:

@Rohok said:

@flindip said:

@Tylea002 said:

Star Trek. It was better than Star Wars from the beginning, and it is better now.

Star Wars never truly clicked. The first 2 films are good, a case can be made for great movies, but beyond that there's nothing exciting there. Star Trek on it's best day can take down Star Wars on it's best day. Basically, what I'm saying, is First Contact > Empire Strikes Back.

I cannot imagine how anyone can think Star Trek: First Contact is better than Empire Strikes Back on any level. Irregardless if you prefer Star Wars or Star Trek, Empire Strikes Back is one of the greatest genre pictures of all time. That film transcends the Star Wars franchise and its an important cultural film. The technical achievements, and cinematography alone(not to mention musical score)are unbelievable. I mean you didn't even pick a quality Star Trek film. None of the Next Generation films were good on any level. A couple of them were even worse than the Star Wars prequels(but nobody remembers because nobody saw them).

You're an idiot.

Don't get me wrong, Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars movie and a really awesome one in general, but I prefer first contact. I watched them both as a child, and First Contact had more of an effect; The Borg are terrifying excellent villains. The story is tense and filled with subtext that you wouldn't expect, obviously there's the whole Human vs Machine but there's also Communism vs Capitalism done really subtly (Star Trek is technically a communist society, in terms of the ideal not how it's put in practise, but there's a point when Picard acts rather dictator like, which is contrasted with Cochrane on earth) and Picard's character journey of revenge is better than Luke's. So when comparing, in my opinion, the best par, t in each franchise, Star Trek comes out on top for me.

Also, when Star Trek gets really bad, I can still watch and enjoy it. There's something undefinable about the feel of trek that will hook me into a story no matter how bad the story turns out to be (the new Trek film does not have this feel), whereas when Star Wars gets really bad it goes into stupid nonsense fantasy bullshit. Prophecies are dumb storytelling devices.

Your entitled to your opinion.

I am just baffled that First Contact is your favorite Star Trek movie on top of you thinking its better film than Empire Strikes Back(and by default better than Wrath of Kahn).

I thought First Contact a very badly written film. It lifts a TON of its thematic ambiance from Aliens. At times its almost shameless about it. It has some HORRIBLE dialogue like "assimilate this." Not to mention one of the laziest plot devices that Star Trek uses which is time travel.

Picard is a terribly written character in the film. His entire character is completely different from TNG where he is an intellectual pacifist. In this movie, because they wanted to turn him into an action star, they decided to make him a revenge seeking madman. It is like they completely ignored what he did in "I Borg" because it was convenient for the writers. Then add some really stupid crap with Data. Some absolutely terrible cliche jokes with Cochran and the crew.

The only character that has some semblance of depth is Lilly. But I think it had more to do with Alfre Woodward's performance than the writing. Lilly is mostly window dressing, but Woodward's a damn fine actress so she can make us care a little.

If you wanted to tell me you find First Contact better than the Star Wars prequels, I can totally see where your coming from. I don't like either but I can see how First Contact is more watchable.

But if your seriously going to say that First Contact is better than a film which was selected for preservation in the NFR from the library of Congress(Empire Strikes Back), I can't take your opinion seriously. I am pretty sure that First Contact will never make that list. I am not even sure Wrath of Kahn would either(although I wouldn't be mad if it was).

I mean jesus, you think First Contact is a great revenge movie(it isn't). Wrath of Kahn is an excellent revenge movie. A revenge movie done well.

Maybe you should revisit it, it hasn't aged well.

Like many, grew up watching the Star Wars movies more than Star Trek. It's just part of "pop culture" more so than than Star Trek is...However as I've gotten older, I've learned to appreciate the Star Trek films more and more...I will say this, Star Trek has a better future on the big screen than Star Wars does...If Lucas will ever let someone else drive his "baby" maybe that will change... but seeing how Lucas is, that is probably not going to happen.

@Tylea002 said:

@flindip Considering I watched both it and Khan around a week ago, I'm fairly confident in my opinion, you're not gonna change my mind. Also I'd say its thematic ambience is not at all aliens, in any way. The borg queen being so different from the alien queen is the perfect example of this. In Alien, the alien is basically a rapist with all that imagery, whereas in aliens they are simply fodder swarms, and the queen has no human elements. In first contact, the queen humanises the Borg, bringing up all that stuff with data and everything. Also Aliens isn't at all scary, that movie only impacts me at all with the criminally underused Bishop element, whereas First Contact still manages to be. But yeah, that's my opinion and reasoning, I think it's an excellent film and I'd rate empire on a notch below it. I'm definitely not a star wars guy at all though, very much a trek guy, I will defend nemesis as having a great villain and a sad ending, it is average not the monster it's made out to be. Insurrection's the worst of the TNG films though, don't really defend that one :P

Each his own I guess, but you are a VERY small minority friend. Next time, when you write that Empire Strikes back is a lesser film than First Contact-make sure to emphasis the YOU. :)