The Twin Peaks Season 3 discussion thread! [SPOILERS]

woof, that was a lot.

Ever since the first bar scene with Diane and her phone I was thinking doppleganger, but couldn't make it work in my head. The best I could come up with was a full possession Lealand style, but in Lynch's FWWM universe, Bob/Leland wasn't on and off like a switch, it was a cooperation; and DIane having evil motives despite hating and fearing evil Coop did not make sense.

What a delightful episode.

So was that crazy kid who got zapped really BOB and Audrey's son? I don't find that particularly hard to believe, all things considered.

It's so good to have Dale Cooper back again, and I'm so happy he remembered everything that happened while he was half himself as Dougie. Dale's almost certainly gonna create a "tulpa" to send to Janey-E right? The thought that the Maiden in Black character is the real Diane is interesting, but I'm not sure how that would all work itself out. Did BOB send her to "nonexistence" so the tulpa could occupy reality without causing some sort of alarm (or breaking some sort of metaphysical law)? But if so, who was it she was so afraid of when she helped Coop? "Mother," if I recall correctly, from episode 1 or 2. The Experiment?

It seems more likely that BOB would have killed Diane and left the tulpa in her place, rather than go through the trouble of stowing her away somewhere, blinded and inarticulate. Unless of course there's another sort of supernatural rule he's bound to abide by, preventing him from killing her outright.

I thought there were two episodes left, but it looks like next week is another two-fer. The thought of waiting two more weeks to get to the finale was kinda bringing me down, so finishing it all next week is a-ok with me.

@theht: It's more doppleganger Cooper than Bob. It's an undefined relationship but while in Prison Cooper says "you're still with me I see" which to me says Bob is just a passenger (though we see him get removed by the woodsmen when cooper dies in episode 8).

That might have being the best episode off the season glad i stuck with it. At this point i was just watching for David Lynches silliness but the story is taking a form now it seems.

I'm thinking the tulpas can only actually be manufactured in the lodge, so Mr. C had to bring her to the convenience store alive to make the Diane we saw. We've seen with both other tuplas that when they were replaced like Dougie, or killed like Diane, they ended up back in the lodge before turning back into seeds. There was also the original blue rose tupla story that Gordan/Albert tell Tammy, and it's been a while since that episode so correct me if I'm wrong, I think when the tupla died in that case she also disappeared(presumably to the lodge). Maybe the tuplas can only start and end in the lodge, being other worldly creatures in a way.

Hmm, could be. I'd have thought being inside a doppleganger would make it so it'd more nakedly be BOB than if he were inside a genuine person, but I suppose the doppleganger's in a sense are their own person. Do you remember the context for Prison Cooper saying that?

Right, I think I remember that story. They ran in on a woman and there was another her in the room. We've also seen that a tulpa requires DNA to be manifested, so we know BOB/Mr. C would've wanted the real Diane for that. Unless he could find her own doppleganger (assuming that's how the tulpa Dougie was created), but that seems a needless complication when they could've easily just gotten the real Diane.

Seems appropriate that they can only be made in the Black Lodge though, and I'd say that's supported by Coop puting in an order to MIKE for one. Maybe they're projections/extensions from the Black Lodge, which is why when they die they don't stay in our reality, and instead seem to be whipped back there like an elastic.

@theht: The context was cooper staring in to a mirror for a long time and them badly overlaying an image of bob's face over his, though even in HD it was hard to make out. The reason he said it was because that is just after he passes out and vomits all the goop from the red room trying to pull him back in. So he thought Bob might have gone. Ultimately, Bob being there is just a holdover from the original series and has nothing to do with anything that has happened in this series.

Also, Diane says "I'm in the sheriff's station" or something to that effect, so I wonder if the real Diane will show up in the finale.

@alistercat: Ah, I'd forgotten that bit. Makes sense!

Interesting how tulpa Diane was almost fighting the influence of Mr. C. Her comment about being in the sheriff's station makes a pretty good case for the woman Truman, Hawk, and Andy found being her.

Was thinkin about that tone in the Great Northern. Wonder if that's supposed to be Josie. Can't imagine what role she'd serve at this point. Maybe it's just more of an acknowledgement of her continued existence in the hotel. Though it's fair to assume that British kid with the strong glove is gonna serve some role in the finale, and he works at the Northern, so who knows.

Wicked, wicked episode. What an ending. Makes me all the more excited to go back and re-watch all of this new season once it release on Blu-Ray.

@theht: I keep seeing that idea but the eyeless woman is Japanese, and Diane is not. Even if she was, Albert and Gordon would have noticed that their races didn't match. Her name is Naido, which is O Dian backwards. Only a week left so I'm done speculating, because any concrete answers will come and then we have to figure the rest out ourselves.

The Daine/Naido theory reminds me, early on when Gordan and Albert go to Diane's apartment to try and convince her to help, wasn't her apartment very noticeably Japanese themed? I've never read any of the books so something in there could refute this, but maybe Lynch is playing with the fact that Diane was a completely unseen and unheard character in the original series. Maybe she was so removed from the FBI to begin with that Gordan and Albert rarely if ever saw her in the first place, so such an obvious incongruity went completely unnoticed?

One thing I'm realizing I don't like about this season is how many plot threads are wrapped up by just killing characters off. It's just starting to feel lazy at this point, like they couldn't come up with a more creative way to get rid of threats. Stephen, Mr Todd, the hitmen, the woman who got done in by Ike, and if he doesn't come back in the finale, Richard. Pretty much everyone who was ever a threat in the series besides Red, BadCoop, and CHAD got killed as resolution to their plotlines, and I'm pretty sure all of them are going to die in the finale too.

I think this is way too much of a stretch, in FWWM Cooper even pokes his head into Diane's office just down the hall from Gordon Cole's to say hi. Especially because there's no actual reason for BadCoop to construct a tulpa that doesn't look like Diane, because why even risk that when he had kidnapped her already with the express purpose of making an exact copy, the same as Dougie?

Just caught up with episode 16 and man... that was everything we ever wanted! When Cooper got up ("I am the FBI) and the music started to play, I was both thinking "oh my god I'm so happy!" and "but why did it take so long!!"

Well, we're not even big pie fans but we were out shopping and the impulse took us so we stopped at a local bakery and bought a cherry pie. My excitement (and subsequent anxiety) for this evening is palpable.

Fun facts: The actress for Gersten Hayward, both the young one in the first two seasons, and the one in the return, is the same person - Alicia Witt.

And the guy with the dog (Cyril Pons) is Mark Frost.

I couldn't get into The Secret History of TP either, until I got the audiobook. I think it is recommended reading/ listening if you really like Twin Peaks. There is some major stuff in there, and a lot of important things that are picked up on in The Return. One thing that comes to mind is people being confused about how Norma and Big Ed didn't end up together (and how Big Ed's personality factored into creating such a situation) The Return really makes a lot of sense in relation to this book.
There are also some really beautiful parts, where Jacoby and the Log Lady talk about life and death.

Also, can't wait for the finale!!

@armaan8014: I actually just picked up the audio book, so that's good to hear! I look forward to giving it another go. I'm really intrigued by the fact that it is read by many of the actors. Thanks duder!

@sethmode: @armaan8014: I heard the book has very little to do with twin peaks and mostly focuses on UFOs and such. I'm not a big fiction reader so I've not really considered picking it up although if it's on Audible I might.

@alistercat: The beginning/first quarter-ish definitely does, which is why my interest in it sort of gradually dipped and then fell off of a cliff. There is a whole section based around letters between Merryweather Lewis and Thomas Jefferson, for example. I think like you I would be more willing to power through if it was being read to me (particularly by the actors). Also, knowing that there will be some more significant connections made is inspiring.

@sethmode: I wish I had the foresight to think about a cherry pie, I looked at the Twin Peaks reddit last night and realized it would make a perfect time to have my first piece. But nobody actually sells it here and I don't have time to make one (like I could even find cherries this time of year), which I guess isn't a bad thing anyway because I hate cherries.

@sethmode: awesome! Have fun :)

@alistercat @sethmode Yeah i think there's more of it in the beginning from what i remember. I also didn't pay much attention during those parts. Eventually i got into the flow of the book and the book begins to touch upon the different characters one by one and what made them the characters that we see in the show. Some characters that only made small, comic appearances on the show are actually very important to the mythos, which I found very interesting.

5 hours to go. I'm excited and sad because in the last 6 months Twin Peaks went from this thing I always heard about to my favourite TV show ever.

I'm frustrated because I feel like there was too much filler like season 2, but then they have to wrap up all the amazing stuff in just 2 hours.

What the actual fuck is going on. Episode 17 was pretty bizarre but 18 seems even more crazy so far.

I feel like this was designed as some sort of ocular torture.

Okay so...

I guess we're right back to how season 2 left us, with the only lesson being Agent Cooper has no idea what the fuck he is ever doing.

Lynch, you motherfucker.

Let me preface this by saying I'm familiar with and like a lot of David Lynch's past work and went into this not expecting a clear cut resolution that tied everything together. With that said, that was fucking shit.

So...

The entire season was nothing. Or it was something. Or it was all a dream. Or... something...

Was hoping for a bit more resolution to what was going on but I guess I shouldn't be shocked.

But really, that last episode sucked. 17 was cool. 18 was... a drag.

This has negatively impacted the entire season for me, that's how much I disliked it. At least, that's how much I ESPECIALLY disliked episode 18. I wasn't fond of 17, the answers it provided, and the laughable green fist fight scene, but I felt it at least did a good job of wrapping up what is the major plot thread of the season. Episode 18 was a poorly paced mess that not only didn't really sell its subject well, it also just bumbled along until it just abruptly farted out some credits.

I should say I went into this not expecting: 1) any more info on Audrey; 2) any more info on Shelley's daughter and her husband Mr. Whispystache; and 3) a neat bow on the overarching story/theme of TP. Despite not having those expectations, this STILL disappointed me. Fuck.

Honestly expecting a season 4 to be announced, but going to be a bummer since that will mean Al won't show up.

I've got pretty much the same thoughts, thought that we didn't get anything form Audrey's story at all annoyed me a lot. I think on it's own I actually don't mind the cliffhanger ending that much, with Cooper and not Laura Palmer, BUT it was preceded by sooooooo much "what is going on?" it just kind of became completely meaningless to me.

Seems to me like when Cooper tried to bring Laura back, he fucked everything up and created some sort of alternate dimension where he is now "Richard." I don't know what it means but the names Chalfont and Tremond, the people who owned what was Laura's house, are both significant. In season 2, Mrs. Tremond was the old woman that Donna visited for Meals on Wheels and in Fire Walk With Me, the same woman went by the Chalfont when she lived in the same trailer park as Teresa Banks.

It's hard to deny that Part 18 was anything other than a drag to watch. It had to be almost 30 minutes of just silent driving but that being said, I love the possibilities set up by the ending. The only question is if we ever get a season 4 and see what any of it actually means. I know a lot of people are going to completely hate that ending but I've got no problem with it, I just wish that what lead up to was a little easier to stomach.

Part 17, on the other hand, was perfect. I loved pretty much every second of it and it gave the exact kind of closure I was hoping for, to the point where when it was winding down, I was wondering to myself how the hell there was another episode after it. Having Bad Coop just waltz into Twin Peaks had my stomach in knots and then seeing Freddie save the day was such a goofy but great moment. I also loved the way Lynch integrated scenes from Fire Walk With Me to the point where I was actually questioning if some of the footage was new. I'm still not completely sure.

The way I see it, Part 17 was the "finale" and Part 18 was the epilogue, setting up the possibility for an entirely new kind of story in season 4, if we ever get it.

I would have enjoyed the finale (and the season much more in general) if this was all condensed into the originally intended 9 episode arc.

I feel like Lynch/Frost wrote 9, then SHO came back with "how about 18?" Lynch said "I AIN'T WRITING SHIT!" and Frost was all "Well... I already said yes, so... just do whatever."

I liked the Treamont moment at the end, but it essentially meant nothing. Alternate timeline gimmicks are pretty cliche, and it disappoints me Lynch would go for one, especially if it means upending everything. Like, was the point of 18 just to say "See? Laura (and her death) is the heart and soul of this series, look how meaningless everything is when it's not there?"

edit: BTW, i missed the Chalfont reference, when was that?

@roomrunner: Mrs. Tremont says that they bought the house from a Mrs. Chalfont.

We are definitely getting more someday

Not necessarily an alternate timeline. Could be in the past since Treamont/Chalfont was an old lady during the original run. Fuckin'... IDK man.

As someone who jumped into Season 3 with a passing knowledge of Twin Peaks and really, really loved most of it, episode 18 left me pretty dumbfounded. I'm sure I'm not alone, but yeah. I sure hope we get more.

I just rewatched the final scene in front of Laura's house and man, does that scene nail the dread and loneliness of that moment so well. It's terrifying watching Cooper stand there in the dark and look so lost. It's punctuated, of course, by Sheryl Lee's scream, which, for my money, is the best in the business. It makes every hair on your body stand up.

Loved Episode 17. Hated Episode 18. Didn't expect closure, but definitely didn't want to be presented with an essentially unsolvable riddle/series of events. I couldn't extract any enjoyment from the episode.

As much as I dislike the finale, I believe this to be a piece of art and it doesn't have to meet the expectations of wants of an audience. I'm glad that it exists, I just wish I lived in a timeline where it ended with some finality. I don't believe that it will continue.

I, uh....I have no idea what to even think? I thought we were building up to a finale that would give some resolution, but now I'm left just wanting to know wtf even happened. 17 was fantastic, I felt that Coop was gearing up to face off against Judy. But then 18? No mention of Audrey, and many other plot points lost... brearded men, judy, sarah, what happened to phillip/chet, what happened to diane/cole, how did twin peaks fit into all of this...(Bill=guy with infected face?) I dunno, I guess I feel that we're missing an episode or two? Fuck it man, on the positive side at least this was entertaining, although the payoff is questionable.

But then I start thinking, wtf man, is this even twin peaks anymore? Was the past changed and then cooper ended up lost in time/space? The nature of black losge/ white lodge is unclear, and there are just too many questions and not enough answers. Overall, I've enjoyed this I guess, but I've been equally confused and dissapointed. Well I guess at the very least it gives me something to think about

Not to kick a finale while it's down, but if you all want a compelling/weird three season series that actually sticks the landing, let me take this moment to praise The Leftovers.

Absolutely. People can pick apart the story all they like, but that ending was absolutely haunting to me. Honestly I thought it was one of the most affecting and chilling things I've ever seen on TV. But then, I've never viewed this season of Twin Peaks as some kind of puzzle box to be solved (and clearly, it isn't), so while I can understand why those who viewed it that way would be disappointed, personally I loved it. And besides, ending with Cooper and Laura is how it needed to end.

I mean there's no way to logic through it, but intuitively I feel like this ending is all about the futility of Cooper's attempt to save Laura from her fate. Whatever that world is we saw at the end, it seems to be a consequence of Coop playing God back in 1989. The way that Episode 17 ends with Cooper seemingly preventing Laura's murder, then having her disappear from his grasp screaming as Julie Cruise sings the same song she was singing when Maddy died, I think it was clear that something terrible was in the process of happening. And whether that ending is real or allegorical or what, Laura is now (apparently) a murderer working for Judy, with Judy having been established as the embodiment of evil. Yes Laura is now alive, but her status as the symbol of purity in Twin Peaks seems to be gone forever, which I think in the mind of David Lynch is a far more terrible fate for Laura. And here's Cooper, purely in the interest of solving the grand metaphysical mystery of Laura Palmer, ends up tracking down Laura -- at Leland's request! -- and bringing her to the source of all of her misery, which ends with her in total, abject terror. Logical or not, on an emotional level that ending really affected me deeply.

Ugh.

What the hell just happened? Is there going to be another season? There has to be.

Truly awful revival. What showed some promise initially turned out to be the biggest 18 hour waste of my time.

Man... That was kind of lame now that I think about it. I loved the first part of the final episode, but that end was bad. People say 'did you think that they'd tie every loose end up?' I don't know, but it could have at least not brought even more questions up. To me, having people wait this long to view more Twin Peaks, and then bring way more questions is pretty lame. I really didn't want this to be like Lost Highway (which the final episode gave me vibes of, and I hear is in the same universe) where it's about the viewer tearing things apart, figuring it out themselves.

I think I know what art is now

When has Twin Peaks ever not been about this?

God FUCKING DAMN IT

I like this analysis a lot...Makes me feel a little bit better.

But still what about AUDREY?!