If I was going to go through the trouble to learn another language, I'd learn one that at least uses the same alphabet and stuff as English, instead of all those weird symbol-dealies that Japanese uses.
"If I was going to go through the trouble to learn another language, I'd learn one that at least uses the same alphabet and stuff as English, instead of all those weird symbol-dealies that Japanese uses. "
But isn't that the whole point of learning a new language? If you're going to do something that's close there's no point.
@MysteriousBob: If you don't want to learn, then you don't need to post. :P And if you ARE going to post, you should at least provide some reasons instead of an antagonistic statement.
This seems cool. I have tried to learn Japanese many, many times. It's very hard to motivate yourself because of how dissimilar it is to English. I already speak French and some German. German actually comes closest out of the three, oddly enough.
" This seems cool. I have tried to learn Japanese many, many times. It's very hard to motivate yourself because of how dissimilar it is to English. I already speak French and some German. German actually comes closest out of the three, oddly enough. "
It's not hard to motivate yourself because of how different it is. If you're deterred by that, then you were never really motivated to learn the language in the first place.
I'm learning japanese in school right now, and we're moving forward pretty fast considering that we have to learn both hiragana and katakana, while also learning grammatical stuff. As a result I can translate symbols into letters and words, but I have pretty much no idea what they mean...
There is a high initial barrier when it comes to learning Japanese, but if you can persist through that, it becomes much easier. If you can make it through learning Hiragana and Katakana the rest begins to seem much easier. Of course, you have to have the drive and the interest. If you don't have either of those, you won't be successful learning anything, particularly something as difficult as a new language.
Pretty helpful, but I already know what's being taught. I wish there was a way to subscribe to blogs, so I could jump in when they got to actual words and grammatical concepts. Also, anybody have tips on memorizing kanji? Or should I continue brute forcing my way at it?
" Pretty helpful, but I already know what's being taught. I wish there was a way to subscribe to blogs, so I could jump in when they got to actual words and grammatical concepts. Also, anybody have tips on memorizing kanji? Or should I continue brute forcing my way at it? "
Kanji should be learned in tandem with new vocabulary. Whenever you learn a new verb or noun learn the kanji. You'll start to group the radicals together and build up your known kanji. Install the Rikaichan extension for firefox. Learn how to use a Kanji dictionary ( jisho.org is my favorite) by finding the radical and counting strokes. If you want a more structured way of learning go through the kanji you are expected to know for each level of the JLPT, start with the easiest (level 4) and work your way up to the hardest (level 1). This is a good site for that.
I'm already kinda comfortable looking up kanji by radicals, even though I still don't know it 100%. Also, hooray for finally finding the kanji site that shows you the possibilities as you choose the radicals. I hate finding out after the fact that I had no idea what I was doing.
As omgahisam mentioned, it's much easier to learn kanji when you combine it with learning vocabulary. It's easier to remember that 旅 (ryo/tabi) means travel when you also know that 旅行 (ryokou) means trip. You can also use this to help expand your vocabulary and kanji knowledge.
For instance, if you know 行く, you can look up that kanji and find a word that combines that kanji with another kanji you don't know. 旅行 for example. From there, you can look up the new kanji you just learned, 旅, and find a word that uses it, such as 旅館 (ryokan). It's an easy way to expand your vocabulary and kanji knowledge, while at the same time reinforcing the words and kanji you already know.
Of course, memorizing a bunch of kanji is good and all, but you only really take off with the language when you read it. Light novels, comics, that sort of thing. Watch out for pride. Only after I'd been through a handful of those did I realize how little I knew at first (as opposed to how much I thought I knew at the time).
I just checked it out and it's actually pretty cool. I'm taking Japanese at Uni and it looks similar to how we first began our lessons. It'll be nice to keep up with this also. =]
I now realize that when I said "kanji", I meant "vocab." Still, these tips will be useful when I get to the point when kanji means kanji, and not vocab. Is Japanese confusing, or am I?
" If I was going to go through the trouble to learn another language, I'd learn one that at least uses the same alphabet and stuff as English, instead of all those weird symbol-dealies that Japanese uses. "
@TheGremp: I understand what he means though. While I believe the lessons will cover Romanji as well, they're also teaching the "weird symbol-dealies". =P
" If I was going to go through the trouble to learn another language, I'd learn one that at least uses the same alphabet and stuff as English, instead of all those weird symbol-dealies that Japanese uses. "
...Japanese Romanjiuses our alphabet, dude. "
Yeah but Romaji is practically useless. If you're going to learn Japanese you might as well go the whole way.
" If I was going to go through the trouble to learn another language, I'd learn one that at least uses the same alphabet and stuff as English, instead of all those weird symbol-dealies that Japanese uses. "
+10 for cultural sensitivity and understanding! USA! USA!
You should avoid Romaji at all costs. I know it seems like it would be easier to just use romaji and avoid the other stuff, but it will end up making things much more difficult for you in the future. The sooner you can learn hiragana and katakana, the better off you will be the the faster you will progress. Eventually, you'll get to a point where it's harder to read romaji than it is to read real Japanese.
@Video_Game_King:
Memorizing vocabulary can be difficult, and unfortunately there aren't any perfect ways to do it. I made thousands of flashcards and constantly went through a stack any time I could. Obviously, that method isn't for everyone.
A friend of mine liked to create little mnemonic devices that would help him remember words. The two I remember most clearly are the words "injection" and "diarrhea." The Japanese word for "Injection" is ちゅうしゃ (chuusha). By coincidence, this is also the same word for "parking," so he remembered it by telling himself he was parking the needle inside. The Japanese word for "diarrhea" is げり (geri), which sounds like the name Gary. So he remembered it by saying "Gary has diarrhea." Creating little words or phrases like this can make it easier to remember words, but it isn't entirely practical to do it with every new word you learn.
Depending on your skill level, doing translations can be helpful. Learning words in context can make them easier to remember. If your advanced enough, go to a news website, like Yomiuri and try translating an article there. I can't link or type out the address of the site for some reason, but if you search Yomiuri you should find it. If you aren't that advanced, you might try translating Japanese song lyrics. They require less grammar knowledge, and if you can remember the song in both Japanese and English, you should be able to remember the words pretty well.
I would suggest that you try different methods. Everyone seems to learn things differently, and what works for one person isn't always best for another. One last piece of advice I can give you, is try to learn words and grammar points at the same time, then use those new words and grammar points together. It will reinforce both ideas and help you remember and understand how each works.
@Shirogane: Unless you plan to go and use the language (ie trip to Japan or whereever), learning a language is pointless. Without constant practice you end up sounding like a retarded child.
After spending 4 years in college learning Japanese and a little time as a translator in Tokyo afterward, I can say Japanese is totally not worth it. It is a language only spoken by 125 million Japanese folks situated on a small archipelago. Compare that to Chinese, English, Arabic, Spanish, etc. The Japanese economy has been spiraling down for two decades, the country is particularly hostile to outsiders and foreign entrepreneurship. Japan's cultural exports are diminishing and the lingua franca for international business in Japan is English. Learn Chinese.
@lazyturtle: There are plenty of uses for a foreign language, even if you never visit a country where it is spoken. I use Japanese in my line of work. It also allows me to play games, watch television and movies, and ready books that I'd never be able to other wise. If you simply try to learn a language and then do nothing with it, your skills will certainly degrade. It isn't hard to find ways to use those skills. Again, it comes down to having the interest and the drive to want to learn a language.
I would also like to share Livemocha.com with anybody wishing to learn Japanese or any other foreign language. Live mocha is like Rosetta Stone except free but with a huge community edge to it. You can friend others, help people with their lessons and native speakers can help you with yours. It's a lot of fun and worth checking out.
Eh if I wanted to learn another language it would probably be something people actually speak in more than one country. Like spanish or something. With English French and Spanish you can communicate within a HUGE geographical area, most of the americas, most of africa, large chunks of europe and australia, pretty decent.
@Mechanical_Ape: Yea...I have absolutely no aptitude for language. I've "learned" German, Spanish and Japanese..all I can do in all three is count to 10, say hello and my name is. Using it in your work is fine, nearly as good as going to the country I suppose..but if you don't have a practical use, it degrades quickly...unless you have a natural aptitude.
@lazyturtle: Yes, you definitely have to find some way to keep using it, or else it will disappear quickly. I took French in high school, and other than counting and asking where things are, I remember almost none of it.
Just dropping in this thread since I noticed it on the front page. Apart from LiveMocha which I see was dropped I'd also recommend http://www.textfugu.com/ for grammar. Don't think it was mentioned here yet.
I'm using http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/all-japanese-all-the-time-ajatt-how-to-learn-japanese-on-your-own-having-fun-and-to-fluency and it's working fantastically.
Note that you don't need to follow his ideas to the letter - I certainly don't do everything in Japanese, but playing a chapter of SRW a day in combination with his studying technique is more than enough to get me learning quickly.
Also note that Hiragana and Katakana should be learned in less than a day each, at the very most a week total. If you're going slower than that it's a sign that you'll probably struggle and possibly quit alltogether as things get more difficult.
It seems that learning Japanese takes so much time and effort that you need to be really dedicated to learning the language if you want to get anywhere with it. I may try to learn it in the future, but I'll need to become fluent in Spanish first.
"If I was going to go through the trouble to learn another language, I'd learn one that at least uses the same alphabet and stuff as English, instead of all those weird symbol-dealies that Japanese uses. "
But isn't that the whole point of learning a new language? If you're going to do something that's close there's no point. "
The whole point of learning another language is so that you will be able to converse in it.
If I wanted to learn another language it would be german or french, since I would actually be able to use those.
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