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#1 Edited by Sammo21 (3261 posts) -

While neither of those games looked like anything that would set the world on fire I didn't see anything not worth playing. Not to mention the fact that it felt like Jeff was playing blindfolded, making stupid mistakes, and then talking about how the difficulty wasn't worth doing. Then there was that entire section in the Killzone QL where Brad was kindly suggesting the better way to do something, but Jeff still goes through and dies several times only to complain about the game.

I almost felt like I would have rather had Jeff sit in on the QL and Vinny or Brad play the game. Even my wife made a comment (as I was watching them on the TV) about how the "guy playing" was just running into things (on Knack) and not even using supers. Anyways, I was just a little frustrated as it felt like not much effort was put into either of those QLs.

#2 Edited by Vinny_Says (5700 posts) -

I hope this leads to you asking giantbomb to give knack the "2013 GOTY in retrospect" 2 years from now.

#3 Posted by kaos_cracker (579 posts) -

They aren't amazing at games. But hey, games seemed fine.

#4 Edited by DeadDorf (388 posts) -

Knack does not seem fine. That looks like a game nobody should pay money for given all of the alternatives out there.

#5 Edited by ProfessorEss (7323 posts) -

To each there own.

I watched both quicklooks. I went into both quicklooks with the impression that neither game was worth playing and I left the quicklooks thinking Knack looks better than I expected and that Killzone looked as bad as I expected.

#6 Posted by EXTomar (4687 posts) -

There is nothing wrong with having someone struggle, annoyed, or play not at their best on Quick Looks. In fact it would be a shame if all Quick Looks were only presented in with them at their best.

#7 Posted by joshwent (2172 posts) -

It just seemed to me like Jeff was really bored with both those games, so he didn't care and was trying to rush just to get through parts. Totally fair, I'd say.

#8 Posted by EarlessShrimp (1633 posts) -

Those are two of my games I've got sitting and waiting for my ps4, and to be honest, not terribly concerned about it. I'll play them both and see how far I get, then take a reso-break then go back to them probably.

#9 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5353 posts) -

Knack sort of looks like El Shaddai, hopefully the gameplay doesn't suck that bad though. Killzone Jeff definitely just sucked at though.

#10 Posted by Andheez (580 posts) -

@joshwent said:

It just seemed to me like Jeff was really bored with both those games, so he didn't care and was trying to rush just to get through parts. Totally fair, I'd say.

Jeff said as much at one point during the Knack QL. He said the only way he was getting any enjoyment was to just rush forward as fast as possible.

#11 Posted by Sammo21 (3261 posts) -

@vinny_says: "While neither of those games looked like anything that would set the world on fire ..." Thanks for being one of those commenters who doesn't read the thread they are commenting in. Even if I did it would be no different than people who look at Kameo more than optimistically.

#12 Edited by mrfluke (5130 posts) -

both games seem fine, not the greatest, not pure horseshit.

knack though, seems better than a 4/10, and a 1.5/5

#13 Posted by Animasta (14673 posts) -

Knack sort of looks like El Shaddai, hopefully the gameplay doesn't suck that bad though. Killzone Jeff definitely just sucked at though.

el shaddai looked way better than Knack though.

#14 Edited by ProfessorEss (7323 posts) -

@joshwent said:

It just seemed to me like Jeff was really bored with both those games, so he didn't care and was trying to rush just to get through parts. Totally fair, I'd say.

This is not a PS4 exclusive.

What's the opposite of "exclusive"? Because that's what "Jeff seeming bored with" is.

#15 Posted by CoinMatze (471 posts) -

What are you talking about? Jeff popped at least 5 supers and it's not like he ever had his bar maxed out. And what did you see there that was worth playing? Knack looked like a not very good brawler and Killzone is Killzone. Courtney Love once said about Killzone that everyone thinks it's cool but it's no one's favorite series. I think that's what she said.

#16 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5353 posts) -

@animasta: Well "looked" as in seemed similar, but yes El Shaddai definitely looks visually better. Next gen!

#17 Edited by BigJeffrey (4952 posts) -

killzone had no direction, looks like you can get lost very easily.

Online
#18 Posted by supermonkey122 (815 posts) -

@coinmatze: What the hell was Courtney Love doing talking about Killzone?

#19 Posted by Vinny_Says (5700 posts) -

@sammo21 said:

@vinny_says: "While neither of those games looked like anything that would set the world on fire ..." Thanks for being one of those commenters who doesn't read the thread they are commenting in. Even if I did it would be no different than people who look at Kameo more than optimistically.

I guess my joke went right over your head, these inside jokes aren't working out so good :(

Dude also, your thread is as pointless as my comment. What are they supposed to do? Redo the quicklook? Issue you an apology? I don't know what you want. Yeah they played badly (as you say) and they had some things to say, but they never said either of these games were unplayable garbage...also you haven't played either yet, the hell you now about how these games actually play?

#20 Posted by Sammo21 (3261 posts) -

@fredchuckdave: El Shaddai has a better and more interesting art design but it does not graphically look better.

#21 Edited by jsnyder82 (730 posts) -

@professoress said:

@joshwent said:

It just seemed to me like Jeff was really bored with both those games, so he didn't care and was trying to rush just to get through parts. Totally fair, I'd say.

This is not a PS4 exclusive.

What's the opposite of "exclusive"? Because that's what "Jeff seeming bored with" is.

I'm pretty sure you could look at the comment section of any Jeff-related Quick Look, and you'll find multiple people say "Jeff seems bored with..."

Not that either of us are defending these particular games or anything.

#22 Posted by Sammo21 (3261 posts) -

@jsnyder82: Yeah, lol. I love Jeff but it seems like he is bored with everything these days...which is why I like Jeff on QLs just not being the one to "steer" them.

#23 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5353 posts) -

I do sort of dig that Knack is getting mediocre reviews due to being difficult, that almost always means the game is good; if Demon's Souls came out with no hype behind it beforehand about the difficulty it would have had like a 45 on metacritic or something.

#24 Posted by joshwent (2172 posts) -

@joshwent said:

It just seemed to me like Jeff was really bored with both those games, so he didn't care and was trying to rush just to get through parts. Totally fair, I'd say.

This is not a PS4 exclusive.

What's the opposite of "exclusive"? Because that's what "Jeff seeming bored with" is.

I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say. Jeff gets bored a lot, I guess? Sure, but in this case he got bored with some boring PS4 exclusives.

#25 Posted by Willza92 (262 posts) -

OPINIONS! It's disappointing in that no one is surprised that all these games are mechanically the same compared to the previous gen. I think Knack being a difficult game (Brads comparison to Dark Souls actually peaked my interest), is the most interesting thing I've seen from all these new games, but there wasn't nearly enough depth to the combat in the quick look to justify the poor checkpoints (and so making the dark souls comparison void, because going through the same section in Dark Souls at least offered some challenge and variation in approach). Jeff even said that in the tutorial, that's all it showed off and the game seems to constantly strip you of any real power and progression that you make. Maybe it would have been better off with you starting off as just a relic and as you go through the game, just getting bigger and bigger.

The quick looks were fine, they showed that next gen video games are still just last years video games and it sold me on the idea of waiting that golden year. Super Mario 3D World is where it's at. Time to dust off the Wii U.

#26 Posted by theveej (826 posts) -

He could have played killzone better, but I got enough out of that to understand how it will work (plus I played the mp at PAX).

Didn't see any problem with the Knack QL.

#27 Posted by triviaman09 (801 posts) -

To be fair, Killzone and Knack are getting pretty middling reviews across the board so it's not just Jeff.

#28 Posted by TheHBK (5474 posts) -

If I were playing and Brad tried to give me advice, I would ignore him. Dude is the worst at games. So i don't get how he can pipe up. Also, Jeff made it clear in the Killzone quicklook, he wanted to keep the big ass gun. As for Knack, playing the game better would not help it. I played it, that thing is boring. It is you running through a corridor beating up on things. I mean, in 2013 we get Crash Bandicoot level design, like the fuck? And it looks bad. For a game that is the project of the guy who put together the hardware, this looks like a PS3 game for sure.

#29 Edited by chrissedoff (2082 posts) -

@sammo21: Enough of your backseat driving. Nine times out of ten you wouldn't give a crap about whether Jeff likes a game, but because you're all emotionally invested in your PS4 'sclusies being world-beating killer games, you've got into your head that Jeff isn't doing his job unless he's "playing right" and being as enthusiastic as you are (even though you haven't even played the damn games, which makes this extra stupid).

#30 Posted by Fredchuckdave (5353 posts) -

Knack's voice is hilarious

#31 Posted by RazielCuts (2950 posts) -

Both those QL's were irksome to me to some degree, they way they were prodding and poking both of them under a microscope. I felt like they're expecting way too much from these games, basically saying 'Show me how you're next-gen.' 'Is that next-gen?' 'Oh, that's not next-gen.' That's a lot of expectations and misplaced pressure to put on a game, especially a launch game.

Guess what, games didn't suddenly become better designed, more dynamic and with complex AI over night. They made the games look prettier because thats the easiest thing to do at the moment, give it a year or so when developers have had a second crack at it or had more time in development with the system. Then we'll see what 'next-gen' truly is.

I thought Knack looked great, the lighting and particle effects and lush foliage. It all had a crispness about it. Same for Killzone, the lighting and sleekness of everything looked really tight. What impressed me most about it to be honest, and this isn't a 'next-gen' thing, was the sound of the guns. Man, they sounded so weighty, the sniper and the minigun in particular.

#32 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3801 posts) -

Yeah Jeff wasn't really using all those alternate attacks and combos you can do in Knack. Really made the game look bad. I think it was intentional!

If some of you guys like these games, great! Not everyone else does. I have PC games that look better and gameplay wise they aren't doing anything interesting. Why are you all defensive?

@thehbk said:

As for Knack, playing the game better would not help it. I played it, that thing is boring. It is you running through a corridor beating up on things. I mean, in 2013 we get Crash Bandicoot level design, like the fuck?

Not even, that's the thing. Crash had awesome platforming. For Knack to be out in 2013 and not really even have any real platforming? It's combat focused and the combat is that simple? It's pretty unbelievable. I have no idea what the thinking was but it looks extremely boring to play.

If they just did a remake of the first Crash game in HD it would be more fun to play.

#33 Edited by Hunkulese (2699 posts) -

I do sort of dig that Knack is getting mediocre reviews due to being difficult, that almost always means the game is good; if Demon's Souls came out with no hype behind it beforehand about the difficulty it would have had like a 45 on metacritic or something.

It's not getting mediocre reviews because it's difficult. It's getting mediocre reviews because it's extremely simple and you've learned every mechanic in the game by the end of the tutorial. Why does Demon/Dark Soul's get brought up every time anyone mentions hard? There have been plenty of "hard" games that have gotten great reviews and it's absurd to equate low score on a hard game to great game that the reviewer sucked at automatically.

#34 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5353 posts) -

@hunkulese: For the most part hard games do not get good reviews unless there's a hype train before they come out; with a few exceptions and this didn't start being a thing until like PS2 generation or so (so, for example Vagrant Story got good reviews). Valkyrie Profile 2 got much worse reviews because it was challenging, but the prototypical example of this is Destructoid's Bloodrayne Betrayal review. To be fair that game is brutally unfair but it is in all other ways a solid game, I'd give it like a 7-7.5/10. Dude gave it 2/10. Just read that shit, it's hilarious. Reviewers fucking love short, easy games by comparison, makes their job way easier (Journey, Walking Dead, Gone Home, Ico etc.).

#35 Posted by Zeik (2364 posts) -

I had some hope for Killzone, but I got pretty bored watching the Quicklook, so I probably won't be playing it. Knack seems like a great discount game down the line, especially if it ends up being a PS+ free game. It doesn't seem worth $60, but I could see myself playing it under the right circumstances.

#36 Edited by AMyggen (2862 posts) -

Opinions. Jeff, Brad and Vinny seemed to think that both Knack and Killzone were kinda mediocre, and Jeff didn't play like a god. But they all seemed to really dig Resogun, so it's not like they're tired of video games or anything, it's just that those games didn't appeal to them.

Personally, I think Killzone looks good visually, but the AI seems absolutely shit (reviewers have been complaining about that too), and I'm just tired of that kind of SP FPS. I'm more interested in the MP. Knack looks like a brawler with way too little variation in the combat when there's no platforming or puzzle solving. I couldn't be less interested in that game after the QL, and I love many of the games Knack takes its inspiration from.

Anyways, this has to be the 1000th thread on this forum over the years of people bitching about the guys playing poorly in a QL. This time it isn't about Brad though, so...progress?

#37 Posted by bennyboy (328 posts) -

@fredchuckdave: That still isn't taking into account the main reason this game is getting bad reviews though, which is apparently its damning simplicity.

#38 Posted by Fredchuckdave (5353 posts) -

Knack QL confirmed the closest we'll ever get to seeing Jeff play Dark Souls.

#39 Posted by joshwent (2172 posts) -

I felt like they're expecting way too much from these games, basically saying 'Show me how you're next-gen.' 'Is that next-gen?' 'Oh, that's not next-gen.' That's a lot of expectations and misplaced pressure to put on a game, especially a launch game.

But that's precisely the function of these games. They're produced by Sony itself, to specifically show off what the new gizmo can do to try an entice people to buy it. Expecting to be "wowed" by something is valid when they exist for that exact reason.

#40 Posted by Fredchuckdave (5353 posts) -

@bennyboy: A lot of games get praised for simplicity so not really sure what difference that makes.

#41 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3801 posts) -

@bennyboy said:

@fredchuckdave: That still isn't taking into account the main reason this game is getting bad reviews though, which is apparently its damning simplicity.

Dark Souls isn't Dark Souls just because it's hard. If Knack is hard... cool? It's still the same three hit combo over and over again with nothing past that who gives a shit.

I didn't love Ninja Gaiden because it was hard. I loved it because it was mechanically incredible, there was a ton to learn, the enemies were interesting, etc.

@fredchuckdave said:

@bennyboy: A lot of games get praised for simplicity so not really sure what difference that makes.

What good action game have you ever seen with one three hit combo over the length of it? And no real platforming challenge? I don't know what you're talking about. Have you watched a video of this game?

#42 Edited by Noblenerf (313 posts) -

@fredchuckdave said:

I do sort of dig that Knack is getting mediocre reviews due to being difficult, that almost always means the game is good; if Demon's Souls came out with no hype behind it beforehand about the difficulty it would have had like a 45 on metacritic or something.

It seems that Knack is getting poor reviews because Knack is poorly designed as a game. Strictly gameplay, it resembles something from another era.

Proper difficulty is important in making a game good, but it is not the sole element of game design.

killzone had no direction, looks like you can get lost very easily.

Well, it did have that terrible red marker indicating your final destination. Too bad it didn't show you a path to get there.

-

I didn't have a problem with the way Jeff played either game. Killzone seemed familiar and Knack seemed bland. I don't think this is what anyone wants to expect from the mighty next generation consoles, but so far it seems to be what we're getting.

#43 Edited by WinterSnowblind (7615 posts) -

Only watched the Knack one, but I saw nothing wrong with the way it was being played. They praised the game for certain elements and commented on problems, mainly being that it doesn't seem like anything particularly special or even remotely interesting. Obviously I've not played it myself, but it seemed like a fair judgement of what little he'd played of it.

Frankly, if you told me it was an XBLA/PSN indie game, I wouldn't have second guessed you.

#44 Posted by bennyboy (328 posts) -

@fredchuckdave: There's simple and then there's simplistic. From what I've played of it at SDCC this year, Knack seems simplistic. As Artisanbreads states - all I was doing for a good 15 minutes was performing the same jump attack and punch-punch-punch combo over and over again ad infinitum.

#45 Posted by Grilledcheez (3947 posts) -

I don't think they have to be well versed or adept at a game to do a quick look. When they simply play the game without worrying too much, it gives a good depiction of what somebody can expect from the game going in fresh.

#46 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5353 posts) -

@artisanbreads: It's not really an action game, it's basically Spyro but hard; what's wrong with that? If you can fail at it then there's more depth then you think. What platformer (could be defined as an action game) ever isn't as simple as jump across platforms and maybe hit an attack button? Several of those are some of the best games ever made.

#47 Posted by bennyboy (328 posts) -

@artisanbreads: It's not really an action game, it's basically Spyro but hard; what's wrong with that? If you can fail at it then there's more depth then you think. What platformer (could be defined as an action game) ever isn't as simple as jump across platforms and maybe hit an attack button, yet several of those are some of the best games ever made?

So if a game is a game it has depth?

#48 Posted by RazielCuts (2950 posts) -

@joshwent said:

@razielcuts said:

I felt like they're expecting way too much from these games, basically saying 'Show me how you're next-gen.' 'Is that next-gen?' 'Oh, that's not next-gen.' That's a lot of expectations and misplaced pressure to put on a game, especially a launch game.

But that's precisely the function of these games. They're produced by Sony itself, to specifically show off what the new gizmo can do to try an entice people to buy it. Expecting to be "wowed" by something is valid when they exist for that exact reason.

But like I guess it depends on what your bar on being 'wowed' by the first launch games of next-gen is. I expected them to look better and run smoothly. I feel like we're getting that. 1080p at 60FPS while looking pretty good while they doing it. I'm not saying Knack is a great game by any means but to constantly be asking in the QL 'whats next-gen about this?' is a bit harsh. It's a simple kids game platformer to draw in the younger demographic, it wasn't meant to be anything else.

#49 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3801 posts) -

@fredchuckdave said:

@artisanbreads: It's not really an action game, it's basically Spyro but hard; what's wrong with that? If you can fail at it then there's more depth then you think. What platformer (could be defined as an action game) ever isn't as simple as jump across platforms and maybe hit an attack button? Several of those are some of the best games ever made.

Have you ever even played Spyro? Spyro has platforming, flying, collectibles, all sorts of different gameplay. It has big open levels. You apparently haven't seen Knack because it fails to do anything close to the amount of things a Mario 64, Donkey Kong 64, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Sly Cooper, etc does.

The reason those games aren't defined as action games is because they do a whole lot more. This game doesn't, yet still keeps the same level of simplicity or is even more simple in your attack options than those other games.

But hey dude, go buy a $400 system and just play this game. It's the Dark Souls of platformers. Knock yourself out! It's definitely just misunderstood.

#50 Edited by SteadyingMeat (1153 posts) -

Knack definitely did not seem 59 out of 100 on Metacritic bad, but hey, I haven't played it so what do I know.

Killzone looked boring as hell.