@spaceinsomniac: I have massive respect for Rockstar satirizing these ninnies, they're always talking about how gaming needs new perspectives, well, making fun of these idiots certainly hasn't been done much before. I find it hilarious.

I think this idea is actually the problem. Why shouldn't video games try to tackle this issue? I guess if you view the sole purpose of games as escapism or fantasy there's not much of a point for developers or the industry to ever change. I always looked at the problem is not so much GTA V not having female characters, but the reaction to people asking for better female characters from the perceived gaming community as a whole. In my mind by creating and perpetuating the message that people who whine about a lack of female representation are essentially saying "if you want a female protagonist find it somewhere else, GTA isn't for you." If a big part of a game's draw is being able to lose yourself in the world, that becomes troublesome for people who don't have a character in-game that they can relate to in some fashion. I don't think GTA needs to have female protagonists in order to be a better game, but I do feel like the lack of female representation and generally negative response to it essentially tells that demographic they shouldn't bother gaming if they want stories/characters that they can personally identify with. Of course this all operates under the assumption that the more people you can interest in games will have a direct impact on the quality of the industry as a whole.

The thing about this game, is that they make everyone look like complete psychos and weirdos, no matter the the sex. I mean, just look at Micheal and Trevor...

Sure, the game is pretty misogynist. Blatantly so. But I don't care! I'm a man. I don't need to care about that. Doesn't effect me in the slightest.

9.5/10

I haven't played the game, so I can't speak directly to the matter, but I get a feeling people have falsely conflated (possible) male chauvinism on the part of characters, the (possible) lack of strong female characters, and (possible) sexism in the game world with misogyny.

I'm a 29 year old straight white male, and I don't relate to any of the 3 main characters at all. I have (thankfully) never been in any situation close to what those 3 guys are going through; never comitted a crime, never had kids, never fired a gun, I don't drive, I'm a pacifist, and fuck, I've never even been to the west coast! I guess they're supposed to have digital testicles, and hey, I have real ones, but that 'similarity' doesn't mean I can identify with those people. But I can experience their lives and their story by playing as them, just like someone of any other gender equally can, and just like I can when playing as any other gender. (When given the option, I usually play as a female character, and have never had a problem "relating" to their story)

The idea that a woman has to see a digital representation of another woman to be able to engage with a game is sexist in itself. Implying that they're unable to have empathy for a cartoon unless it probably has the same digital genitals that they do. Having more female main characters would be great for diversity's sake, but the idea that a lady finds a game 'troublesome' unless it has those characters is absurd, and should be offensive... to them!

GTA basically is like a rap video brought to videogame-simulated life. Why would anyone expect it to be accurate and respectful towards the things it parodies in an over the top and goofy manner, is beyond me.

Come on, Polygon is like The Onion. It's satire, everybody knows that.

@joshwent: Completely back you on your points. So far my favorite GTA experiences have been playing young black men trapped in the ghetto and gang culture, and seeing how they both evade and play into it. I spent a good amount of time sitting in Franklin's living room, smoking weed and watching cartoons because it felt like a very real moment for a real person, I enjoy watching him talk with Lamar primarily _because_ I don't identify with him or Lamar. Characters you relate to are not characters you identify as, they're characters and personalities you begin to understand.

Your post is excellent, just to restate.

Just gonna let you know. I finished the touching stripper mini-game (felt pretty pervy for doing it but i was curious). You can go back to her place and bang her. Then you can call her up i guess? She sent me a text of her tits later on.....Not sure how i feel about that?

@clonedzero: Well, some may hope that you look at your genitals and cry. All the while flogging yourself with a cat o nine tails....

@clonedzero: Can you do that as Trevor? I think it would be hysterical if they'll bang you if you're Michael or Franklin, but Trevor isn't smooth enough to flirt effectively.

Or maybe there's one stripper who for whatever reason is into scumbags like Trevor. Bad Life Choices Girl.

As I referenced in the 'cop chasing' thread, I think it would also be really apt if the cops randomly pull Franklin over for 'being suspicious' but never do so for Michael or Trevor. You want to talk about empathy gaming.

That would be AMAZING! Switch to Franklin just sitting at a red light. Cop pulls up and gives him a weird look. Instant 2 stars.

Of course he is an actual criminal, but hey, that would be a great moment.

I really hope this place isn't turning into NeoGAF with the sexism threads, I was really enjoying my stay here but if it starts to be overrun by these threads then I will probably leave here as well. -_- If you want to talk about sexism everyday go to NeoGAF.

Well, not everyone here is in Neogaf...

Liberal, politically correct feminists are attacked in GTA V to the degree that republicans were attacked in GTA IV. I was a bit shocked. I guess a new presidential administration means new targets.

lol at liberal political correct feminists^^

If you would be liberal you should be a humanist first of all. Otherwise it fis perfectly in the world. This game is not about women but about men and masculinity of these and basically everything is made for this. TV programs, Radio, events absolute everything. It is how these people thinking and whats on their mind. This is not sexism or misogyny but brilliant creative writing. This gets really clear if you do all these random events and character specific side missions. What these characters talking about fits perfectly with these different characters

Rockstar was not lying when they said this is a game about male msculity and that women have no place in this game.

They only suggested that women have no place as the protagonists of the story that they decided to tell. There's a big difference there. Women have been a part GTA games ever since the player character was shot by a woman in the opening moments of Grand Theft Auto III, and perhaps even earlier than that.

Women have no place in this game (GTAV) as protagonist and you can clearly see why by playing this game.

I allow for the fact that Rock Star made their game and made it with their own ideas in mind. I can even concede that maybe with such a large project not having a major female characters or so very few sub characters could have happened simply because of edits, cuts, or just changes in narrative. It could have been unintentional, as unlikely as it seems. I remember that GTA IV did have have some minor female characters, so I don't think it is easy to pin just not caring.

At the end of the day I think Rock Star does want to meet players needs and requests. I'm sure some female character will appear in the next game, and i'm sure other Rock Star studios are aware this was a controversy.

All I really want is the next game to have just as many strong female characters as male characters. It could be all the main characters are still male, but I would be very happy with more female characters that just have more content and are more well rounded. I hope teh DLC might include more female characters, but who knows if that is even possible. If I am right and that some of the strong female leads were cut, then yeah, we might just see a lot of strong female characters crop up. I doubt it, but it is possible.

What sexism?

In all honesty there is a lot of sexism and general misogyny in this game. I don't think they represent the actual female characters unfavorably though. Mostly it's just male characters being misogynistic assholes, strip clubs and hookers, or tasteless jokes on the radio or internet (anyone been to hushsmush.com on the internet in the game?). I personally don't think the game is misogynistic.

The game features a lot of misogyny but it feels mostly tongue in cheek. Some of it is just a bit lame.

Pretty much totally agree. Hell, I am a straight man and despite having zero interest in digital tits, I still played through the minigame with Franklin. Why? Roleplay. Just because I don't give a damn about digital tits doesn't mean that this character in that world wouldn't do it. It doesn't make the game sexist because you can do it and I don't feel it makes me sexist for having played through it.

And aside from that, this is a game about mostly terrible people doing mostly terrible things and sometimes playing golf. Going to a strip club is just a thing that happened, just like all the other things that happen in this game. I'm not going to assign moral judgements when the content of the game and my actions in the game are no indication of the moral compass of the creators or the players of said game.

Oh the indignation!

Sexism and misogyny are terms that I've felt should never be thrown out against someone unless you have hard evidence of such a case. In the end I've always felt to let creators create and if what they create does not fit into your own I guess "agenda" in a way then so be it. I guess you could say GTA5 is a "fuck you" to the gaming "journalist".