"I wish it had some context"

Doesn't he realise that the level designer creates their own level context? I don't get his point?

He wanted levels built around level design. As in, you have to build a level that can complete task x. But as Jeff mentioned you can do this in order to unlock various trophies so the context is sort of there. I highly doubt that was Media Molecule's intention, however. Levels where there's nothing but, say, object x (which can't be moved or edited, only everything around it can)and it has 3 switches on it and your task is to devise a way to touch all 3 at once using the editing software. That sort of thing. Playing levels has motivating context, creating levels don't because you're creating your own endgame not trying to reach one the game set out for you.

"He wanted levels built around level design. As in, you have to build a level that can complete task x. But as Jeff mentioned you can do this in order to unlock various trophies so the context is sort of there. I highly doubt that was Media Molecule's intention, however. Levels where there's nothing but, say, object x (which can't be moved or edited, only everything around it can)and it has 3 switches on it and your task is to devise a way to touch all 3 at once using the editing software. That sort of thing. Playing levels has motivating context, creating levels don't because you're creating your own endgame not trying to reach one the game set out for you."

"ryanwho said:

"He wanted levels built around level design. As in, you have to build a level that can complete task x. But as Jeff mentioned you can do this in order to unlock various trophies so the context is sort of there. I highly doubt that was Media Molecule's intention, however. Levels where there's nothing but, say, object x (which can't be moved or edited, only everything around it can)and it has 3 switches on it and your task is to devise a way to touch all 3 at once using the editing software. That sort of thing. Playing levels has motivating context, creating levels don't because you're creating your own endgame not trying to reach one the game set out for you."

But isn't the point that it fulfills your creativity? And there is a trophy for creating a level that gets hearted by 50 people. That's a pretty big feat so there is incentive.

I kinda thought LBP would be great whether your creating levels or seeing what others play. Meh.

Surely if you have to create levels to achieve certain tasks you lose the WHOLE creativity aspect?"

Hmmm... well his vision for the game sounds bloody awful if that's what he's thinking.

"Hmmm... well his vision for the game sounds bloody awful if that's what he's thinking."

"get2sammyb said:

"Hmmm... well his vision for the game sounds bloody awful if that's what he's thinking."

I disagree. It would be better than the current game by far. Imagine building these awesome, creative LBP levels to satisfy some sort of objective. That would be cool."

ryan sounds like he isn't very good at the game and is frustrated w/the controls, and would rather have the game play more like mario. He does seem at least somewhat determined to not like the game, also he seems to be missing the point of the level creation; he seems to think that the level creation tools should be a part of the story mode or something which is not the idea. But then again, ryan is usually just saying stuff to go against the grain of what all the other guys think.

"Knives said:

"get2sammyb said:

"Hmmm... well his vision for the game sounds bloody awful if that's what he's thinking."

I disagree. It would be better than the current game by far. Imagine building these awesome, creative LBP levels to satisfy some sort of objective. That would be cool."

But it wouldn't work. How can you be truely creative if you're having to - for example - get to the other end of the level in 10 seconds (or whatever). And how would you share that content? Nah... urgh... you're ruining the essence of what LBP is all about."

"ryan sounds like he isn't very good at the game and is frustrated w/the controls, and would rather have the game play more like mario. He does seem at least somewhat determined to not like the game, also he seems to be missing the point of the level creation; he seems to think that the level creation tools should be a part of the story mode or something which is not the idea. But then again, ryan is usually just saying stuff to go against the grain of what all the other guys think."

Ryan was wanting LBP to be more like World of Goo, or that game where you draw pictures to move that ball from point A to point B.

I get what Ryan is talking about and I totally agree. If they made a good single player(co-op) portion with a cool story or something then maybe I'd be interested. Playing user made levels and creating stuff? Not for me.

Like Jeff likes to say "I get why people like it, it's just not for me".

when it comes to user created games like LBP that has thousands of things to mess around with, it can be intimidating to some people. I think LBP is a kind of game that requires a lot of patience and if you experienced that sudden "click" that makes you say, "man, i can actually do this", than you'll finally realize what this game can offer. but anyways, i cant wait for them to get the server straighten out so the real fun can begin.

"Knives said:

"get2sammyb said:

"Hmmm... well his vision for the game sounds bloody awful if that's what he's thinking."

I disagree. It would be better than the current game by far. Imagine building these awesome, creative LBP levels to satisfy some sort of objective. That would be cool."

But it wouldn't work. How can you be truely creative if you're having to - for example - get to the other end of the level in 10 seconds (or whatever). And how would you share that content? Nah... urgh... you're ruining the essence of what LBP is all about."

Yea i agree with Ryan's view on the "game."

He simply means, there is no overall goal in the game, or incentive to create and share your own levels, play other peoples levels, other than just doing it because you choose to....you can't really deny that, you're either into it because you simply like the game and completely for fun, or for people like him that want an overall goal, if it doesn't get you at first it may just not be their game. Really shouldn't matter what his opinion is if it isn't the same as some of yours, if it was anyone else that wasn't someone from the bombcast this wouldn't even be bought up.

"I get what Ryan is talking about and I totally agree. If they made a good single player(co-op) portion with a cool story or something then maybe I'd be interested. Playing user made levels and creating stuff? Not for me.

Like Jeff likes to say "I get why people like it, it's just not for me"."

Ryan has the same thought as I do. I don't want to make my own level then play it, that is not fun because you already know it off by heart, or having to rely on the user base which is something I am definitely not prepared to do.

"While not having played the game, I agree with Ryan "so hard" here.  I don't see the point of just "doing stuff" in games.  There has to be a clear objective and reward."

"Teoball said:

"I get what Ryan is talking about and I totally agree. If they made a good single player(co-op) portion with a cool story or something then maybe I'd be interested. Playing user made levels and creating stuff? Not for me.

Like Jeff likes to say "I get why people like it, it's just not for me"."

I completly agree with you, this game is just not for me."

Yea I totally agree with Ryan on this one, especially his sentiment on how not being a creator myself I can get much of the experience through youtube

"Yea I totally agree with Ryan on this one, especially his sentiment on how not being a creator myself I can get much of the experience through youtube"

I see where both sides are coming from here.  I've played through the entire story mode and really enjoyed it.  From a platformer standpoint I thought it was a solid game.  It's certainly not the best  platformer I've played but it was enjoyable and adequately challenging at parts.  It's story elements were weak but then again are Mario's really that strong either?  I'm pretty sure we've been playing the same story for 20 plus years now (and I've been enjoying it, don't get me wrong).  LBP does offer something different, that may or may not appeal to folks.  If it doesn't I completely understand that b/c it's quite an involved process and intimidating to me.

One of the things I did early on was get into the level editor tools.  I think I played the first level and then tried out the tools to see what I had in my tool box (not that much at the beginning).  I started going through the tutorial and quickly became overcome with what all the tools could do.  I decided to quit that for a while and play through the game.  It was when I took the game from that perspective that I fell in love with the game.  After briefly familiarizing myself with the tools, the levels themselves took on a whole new meaning.  They were almost like awesome examples of what I could do with the game if I wanted.  They conveyed simple story elements in outstandingly creative ways.  The more I played and unlocked tools and items the more I couldn't wait to get back into the level editor and try out some ideas.  If I had ignored the level editor and just played the game I don't think I would have the appreciating for what Media Molecule has done.

Now this certainly may not appeal to a some people.  And that's understandable.  Some people like bullet point objectives and an arrow pointing them to their location.  The objectives of the game are somewhat gray.  Could the game have given you more objectives by having you design a level to accomplish task X or Y?  Sure it could have.  Then it would be something like Incredible Machines though.  As it stands LBP takes a little bit from here and there and combines it into a package that's going to be a milestone for gaming.  LBP is a sandbox game in every sense of the word.  That's not appealing to some people but I certainly dig it.

"tangeu said:

"Yea I totally agree with Ryan on this one, especially his sentiment on how not being a creator myself I can get much of the experience through youtube"

That's ridiculous. Can he go on Youtube and play a perfect 2D platformer rendition of Mirrors Edge then?"

"Let me get this straight, is Ryan complaining that there is no point to the levels? Can you actually not make an end goal to your maps?

Like collect ten keys or something to unlock a door, can you do that? Or is the point of the game just screwing around with the editor and making stuff move in funny ways?

"

"Tarsier said:

"Let me get this straight, is Ryan complaining that there is no point to the levels? Can you actually not make an end goal to your maps?

Like collect ten keys or something to unlock a door, can you do that? Or is the point of the game just screwing around with the editor and making stuff move in funny ways?

"

You can make an end gate to your level, you can create your own goals... so the fact that there is no objective is stupid, because you can MAKE YOUR OWN OBJECTIVE...
The satisfaction I get from creating a level is kind of the same satisfaction I get from playing Rock Band...
I can't actually do it, so I'll do it the fake way and have fun!"

"Vigorousjammer said:

"Tarsier said:

"Let me get this straight, is Ryan complaining that there is no point to the levels? Can you actually not make an end goal to your maps?

Like collect ten keys or something to unlock a door, can you do that? Or is the point of the game just screwing around with the editor and making stuff move in funny ways?

"

You can make an end gate to your level, you can create your own goals... so the fact that there is no objective is stupid, because you can MAKE YOUR OWN OBJECTIVE...
The satisfaction I get from creating a level is kind of the same satisfaction I get from playing Rock Band...
I can't actually do it, so I'll do it the fake way and have fun!"

The difference being that you can, in theory, make levels on par or better than the levels provided by Media Molecule.  So you are actually being a level designer.
"

didn't he play the whole single player through? You're saving the creatures of LBP :P haha -objective.. and reward (feeling all warm and toasty inside)

Reading through the various arguments, I'm beginning to see how context could have been given to the editor, and improved the game. Sure, some find satisfaction in simply crafting fun levels, but for others, the incentive isn't there. I make a level, I know the tricks, it's not fun for me. Other people can make levels for me to enjoy, but for an individual, there is little reward for creating something.
Perhaps, they could have done more with the editor to get people more engaged into it.  Maybe there is a big wall, and you must build a wrecking machine in the editor to take it down. It could be really simple, but really fun. There could have been so many possibilities for that kind of design. I guess we'll have to wait for LittleBigPlanet 2.

"Reading through the various arguments, I'm beginning to see how context could have been given to the editor, and improved the game. Sure, some find satisfaction in simply crafting fun levels, but for others, the incentive isn't there. I make a level, I know the tricks, it's not fun for me. Other people can make levels for me to enjoy, but for an individual, there is little reward for creating something.
Perhaps, they could have done more with the editor to get people more engaged into it.  Maybe there is a big wall, and you must build a wrecking machine in the editor to take it down. It could be really simple, but really fun. There could have been so many possibilities for that kind of design. I guess we'll have to wait for LittleBigPlanet 2."