A lot of things subtly point to the fact you are playing as Venom Snake and not Big Boss in the game. The AI pod being confused about snake, Eli's DNA not matching up, the fact that he is never called big boss in the mission credits despite everyone calling him that, with only ocelot in a cassette tape calling him Venom Snake. But the really obvious one could have been seen from the trailers.

In the shot where the docs are trying to revive big boss while he is lying next to Kaz ("Don't you die on me dammit!"), its clear he has no shrapnel in his head, and it should clearly be there as its on the left side of his face. Hell, one of the docs even moves his head from side to side as if Kojima was deliberately showing us.

I mean, I still figured it out long before i hit mission 46 (it was still surprising finding out that, yes it really is just that simple that you are not playing big boss).

For some reason, It is almost more powerful that despite how OBVIOUS it is, and how clearly the game is spelling it out for you, I still doubted myself. I wanted to believe I was Big Boss. Maybe thats what it was like for Venom Snake? Maybe he felt just like me, that it was so obvious that he wasnt the man people claimed he was, but he still wanted to be him, to really live up to the legend, just like Ocelot says.

If so...thats really a very strong meta-narrative. The more I think about it this, the more I really start to appretiate this game's narrative elements.

...this game is pretty great, you guys.

I had presumed before the game came out that the big twist would be that you're playing as Solidus, as he was "the perfect clone". He was an older fella in MGS2, so it might've made sense for him to be around BB's age in Phantom Pain's time period.
I was sort of close I guess.
They handle it well though, yeah. It reminds me of Bioshock Infinite. Before playing through the game, no one understood what the "Infinite" moniker meant. The V/! icon on MGSV's packaging is an exclamation mark which splits into two as it rises, and in trailers leading up to the games release, the line "From FOX two phantoms were born." Looking back it seems obvious, which just makes it better.
I've also seen Kojima on Twitter encouraging people not to refer to the game as MGS5, but MGSV because V is very important, and if you want to go out on a limb, there now exist 5 Snakes (Liquid, Solid, Solidus, Big Boss, Venom), so it fits from that aspect as well.

Yeah, I guess I just figured rhe two phantoms line referred to skull face and big boss. And nice catch on the V/! I never really thought of that. Man, it just doesn't end does it? And to think it all seemed so unecessary at first. That trademark attention to deal makes something that seemed so odd and unecessary at first become a very well-thought and carefully laid out plot.

Some people actually figured it out well over a year ago, but it seemed way too silly and obvious a twist so most just shrugged it off as nonsense. If you go look at old GameFAQs/NeoGAF threads you can totally see people guess the plot almost beat-for-beat.

I had a feeling that you weren't BB the second it threw you into a avatar select screen. I wasn't 100% sure, but I always thought all of the "V has come to" sounded like weird activation stuff.

Those doctors in Cyprus are fucking incredible though. They turned a black man into an almost unmistakable copy of Big Boss in 48 hours in my game.

Medical science be crazy.

It's a terrible twist that invalidates the whole game that came before it, was telegraphed well in advance, and turns a numbered entry in the franchise into a side story. MGSV is a brilliant stealth game with trash for a story, and it breaks my heart.

MGSV seems like it will go down as another MGS2 in terms of division in the fanbase. I think what it does for the over arching MGS story to be fantastic.

I adore the story, it's probably my second favorite metal gear game so far. It's also interesting to observe how much more stoic ahab/venom snake is compared to the more talkative and confident big boss you encounter in the true ending. Kiefer did such a great job this game with the few lines he had. As much as he started out as a blank slate, Ahab has become one of my favorite characters, his story is just so tragic.

I noticed that Snake didn't have the "horn" in the resuscitation scene months ago, however I had just assumed that the horn would "grow" throughout the game slowly tracking Snake's descent into evil.

@three0nefive: If you could provide a link to that thread I'd love to read it.

Didn't care for it at all. It just felt like Kojima put his desire to pull off a clever trick before concocting a story fans would enjoy. He pulled the same shit in Sons of Liberty, and I didn't appreciate it then either. The thing I've come away from this game feeling is that Metal Gear doesn't need Kojima in order to continue to exist. It may even be better off without him.

The game was marketed on the premise that the story would be surrounding the events of Big Boss becoming the villain of the series - instead we get NONE of that other than a throwaway line about the real Boss being off doing his own shit, while we play some side story that means nothing to the overall timeline other than what was subtly retconned in this game. Again, if this was the Truth all along then it's the Truth because Kojima wanted to be clever, nothing more. The final cassette tapes upon completing the Truth mission are like a band-aid on a missing limb, they do nothing to ease the Phantom Pain. Kojima played us like a damn fiddle.

Still, the gameplay was phenomenal. That's an awesome foundation for whatever comes next.

I can't believe people are comparing this to MGS2. MGS2's twist had an actual point, was executed far better, and served both the meta narrative AND the narrative. MGSV's twist is completely hollow. Unlike MGS2's twist all it does it detract, it doesn't add anything.

The use of references, chief among them 'Ahab' is pretty nice though. In the end Venom Snake is so consumed, first by his wish for revenge and eventually his desire to become the legend, that he's 'pulled under'. The nickname itself should have been enough of a foreshadowing.

I think the point of the Venom Snake twist is that YOU, the player, helped build the legend of Big Boss which is a nice sentiment...I just think it was handled and told poorly. It didn't feel like the other MGS where the twist happens and there's good bit of interaction between the characters dealing the twist and why. You see the fallout...in here...the twist is right at the end that's it.

And it's not just the twist that felt off, Chapter 2 in general felt really off like it was suppose to be the size of Chapter 1 but Konami was just like "Nope, fuck you, Kojima we're gonna butcher your baby". I loved all the story beats in Chapter 2 but it wasn't really a second chapter...more like an epilogue...and the theme of "Race" had literally nothing to do with it. I feel like it's never been more apparent that you can see EXACTLY where the budget and time was cut. I mean the actual ending to the game which resolves Eli stealing Sahelanthropus was just cut from the game.

as soon as the character creator came up i knew something was up.

but i just loved how that true ending was done, it was essentially Kojima talking to the player, telling them thanks for everything, as if it wasn't for us the fans, there really wouldn't have been no metal gear solid series,

but there is a bittersweet feeling knowing that your character is basically damned to hell in outer heaven and sent to die. (which that also ties things up as well, as that explains how Big Boss was in multiple places at once)

I thought the twist was fantastic. The only stupid part is the dangling plot threads they leave at the end with liquid and psycho mantis still in the wind with an english strain.

Look up "Episode 51" on youtube, that stuff was cut from the game but there are some unfinished assets that were stitched together and put in the collector's edition. It's good stuff, and a damn shame it's not in the game since it gives you pretty much all of Liquid's motivations.

This is so fucked. This is one of best stealth game ever made and Konami butchered it.

For anyone insterested, here's the missing part of chapter 2:

I think the twist was great! People are just butthurt because it isnt "big boss" when technically it is because big boss isn't a person its a symbol. On top of all that big boss really isn't the legendary soldier that was hyped up to be. XOF was with him on all his missions cleaning up and helping him succeed and making him the legend without him knowing. (kind of like the movie hercules with the rock) just big boss didn't know. If anything this game made him more of a person. i could see where people complain it doesn't show his decent into evil because that was kinda the point of the game no? but all my opnion feel free to bash me on it

edit: expect when he kills the boss. i guess thats kind of legendary lol, but again its just a title no?

i haven't finished the game yet but i figured it would be the case from the trailers and ground zeroes. the medic is voiced by kiefer and kojima goes to great lengths to not show his face during the final cut scene. then when paz blows up you clearly see the medic step in front of big boss and shield him, taking most of the blast. i think its a pretty cool twist

@mems1224: I noticed that too. The face turn of the medic really got to me. It was almost like he was hiding on purpose. I instantly realized it was done to hide the character but I couldn't tell why.

I admit I feel a way about being tricked AGAIN about playing as someone else. But as far as the story goes it is fine-no hard feelings.

So pretty much before the game came out me and my friends were saying you didn't play as big boss, the whole Keifer voicing Medic in GZ made us go "what if you're the medic....." so game roll in and doc tells you about the shrapnel and teeth in your body which I was thinking was parts of Paz and part of the Medics face and why the medic needs to get his face reconstructed which they do into Big Boss face. I was partly right in some of this.

So when it shows you the avatar screen it made me think that stronger then when I saw Big Bosses milky eye I was thinking "His eye isnt milky...it was shot by a bullet....its not there. So....this isn't big boss." also the old phantom pain trailer of "Ishmael" helping him out was Keifers voice I figured that was big boss. Alot of stuff I went through and put together before being told however.... I WANTED to be told I NEEDED confirmation. Which made me happy anyways to be confirmed the theory.

Even on the helicopter I was saying to my friends "there is an old picture of Boss, Miller and Morphos the heli pilot in GZ...with one dude folded over.....that's the medic....that the guys you're playing as." and in the truth ending sure enough nail on the head.....and my REAL NAME was on the back of the pictures and I kind felt tingly.

Its sort of horribly telegraphed yet highly personalized touch (for me at least) was really nice and great to have the 100hrs of theorising finally put to rest. I am not going to say it was done well except for the last bit explaining it all just it left me that long without any hints my theories may be correct....I started to forget them and believe I was big boss.

The Eli DNA results I was first "huh....then what the fuck is Eli?.........oh no this makes sense....cos I am not playing as big boss duh!"

However moments like the parasite outbreak and having to shoot your own men, didn't matter if you were Big boss or Venom Snake.....it was your men.

Oh and the entire time I was doing the Paz stuff NONE of it made sense since I had played Peace Walker so I kept going "why is she talking about Prof Galvez/Zebarnov at this shit thing that never happened called Peace day.....cos he was running away and being a dick at this time.....he was not a friend......" as well as the GZ flashback made a lack of sense, still doesn't make much sense if you think its from the medics view and with the ending on that story I knew it was all fake. Kept acting like they just dragged her out of the water when it was 9 years ago it happened.

His eye actually would be there, his cornea was burnt out by the muzzle flash, it WASN'T shot out by a bullet

I just finished this, and I fucking hated it. I get what happened, but it just leaves so many questions, and makes much of the story that came beforehand meaningless. I don't mind twists, I think MGS2 was actually pretty amazing in it's Raiden reveal, but this just feels lazy. I could tell something was up, and I had my suspicions the protagonist was Naked Snake, but I was hoping for something more interesting.

Was the real BB in the hospital for the whole 9 years? He definitely was in a coma so when did he wake up? Ishmael was clean shaven under his bandages. Did Hideo leave it off so it would be less obvious, or was it just an oversight? How did the doctor perform flawless plastic surgery on Venom in 30 seconds? It apparently wasn't done during the coma, because the doctor shows you your reflection in the mirror seconds before. If Venom was designed to be a body double for Naked, as someone to take his place so he could go into hiding, then why was Naked staying in the next bed? You'd think that maybe if someone came to kill Venom, they might see the identical man 3 metres away.

Why did Naked Snake even go into hiding to build Outer Heaven? If Venom Snake was able to stay and build Diamond Dogs then there was no point in Naked going into hiding. Why didn't Naked Snake just go back to lead Diamond Dogs? Was it just pure luck that Venom was apparently just as much of a legendary soldier as Naked? If Kaz and Ocelot know that Venom isn't BB then why are they looking to him for guidance? If they just need Venom as a figurehead to attract soldiers to Diamond Dogs, then why don't they just treat him as a puppet? Prior to the GZ incident Venom was no-one special, he certainly didn't have the experience of Naked Snake. If he was already a prodigy, then why was he just a medic? He knows literally everything Naked knew, even The Boss' CQC techniques.

When they tested Venom and Eli's DNA, I thought maybe a reason for there not being a match was Eli's genetic engineering, etc., etc., but if Venom isn't the original BB, then whey did they even bother testing? Ocelot, Miller, and apparently even Venom himself all knew that he wasn't a clone of Venom, so what were they doing?

I really really enjoyed this game up until this point, but this left a sour taste in my mouth. Everything just feels so shoehorned in, and leaves more plot-holes than it fixes.

@ohnooh: I guess most of the answers To the situational question you asked about mirrors, 30 second surgeries, and why have a body double right next to the genuine article can be mostly answered with because video games. There is no good answer, but we have to suspend disbelief sometimes.

As for Miller and Ocelot, if you listen to the tapes, and the post-credit stinger, its clear that Miller and everyone else believed V was BB. Even Ocelot. Because Ocelot self-hypnotized himself to believe so. He mentions that he has had to do this a few times in his line of work, but when the time came, he would have to remember who was the real BB. This is why Miller was pissed off, because he bonded and suffered more with V than with BB, and BB trusted Ocelot more than him, or so he believed.

@ohnooh: Looking at your questions, did you even do mission 46? Did you listen to any of the tapes?

It's all in there, and you bit into a slice of lemon, when there was a pie right next to it.

@somejerk:

Yeah, I was definitely in an unreasonably shitty mood when I finished this, I listened to the tape last night while doing some side ops.

@jazzylament:

I'll have to listen back to some of that post-credits stuff again, but I was under the impression that the conversation happened very early on in the game, before Miller could actually bond properly with BB.

After going back into the tapes, I definitely understand it more, but I'm not happy with it. I still think the Doublethink explanation is a lazy deus ex machina to handily sweep away the plot holes. It's a ham-fisted retelling of exactly the end of Nineteen Eighty-Four and it doesn't work particularly hard for it's twist. It does absolutely nothing with it, there's nothing wrong with the concept, and it could have been great if the Medic as Venom reveal happened around 2/3rds of the way in, and there was some actual interesting character development. As it stands, it's just kind of a weird mess and it reads as "HAHA I TRICKED YA". I'm not sure if the mostly silent Snake was actually intentional on Kojima's part, or actually a result of some budget constraints, but as a result of Venom being a mostly silent protagonist you never really learn anything about his character and so you project your own feelings onto him. It's weird, because this is obviously a case of ludonarrative-dissonance, but it's the exact opposite of the typical case. I played this game entirely non-lethally, except for a few sections that forced violence, like the outbreak, hitting hard targets like tanks and helicopters, and the Skulls. In my game Big Boss was an entirely benevolent leader with a burning desire to carry out The Boss' will. Never killing, giving every merc a chance at redemption, rescuing every single prisoner, hundreds of animals, and just generally fighting the good fight.

Even when everyone else was clamouring for blood, Venom was the only person who wanted to let Huey live. They knew exactly how the outbreak happened, and they knew it was Huey's fault, but Venom was still the voice of reason. The outbreak was obviously a seriously traumatic experience for Venom, and you can tell he loved his men like brothers from the way he treats them during the funeral, but even knowing it was Huey's fault (and knowing Huey is a lying piece of shit in general, responsible for more than a few of their serious problems and who murdered his wife) he remains reasonable, he's hardly a man consumed by revenge.

I was wondering why those Big Boss is watching you posters started appearing in my base, I only just realised why. I assumed it was just a joke, because they made no sense. (Big Boss isn't running an authoritarian police state, this is a merc company)

The most frustrating part of all is that Venom snake not being the real Big Boss means that this entire game was a side-story with no bearing on the existing Metal Gear canon, because if Venom didn't build Outer Haven then he's not the Big Boss from any of the other games.

My favourite little clue: shortly before he's strangled by Quiet, the Greek doctor wordlessly shows you a pair of photos, both showing a group of people standing in front of a chopper. In one is Big Boss, Miller, Morpho (the pilot) and a fourth soldier, presumably the medic. This photo slightly overlaps the other, very similar photo. One person--the medic--appears to be missing. Kind of the doctor's "get it?"

It seemed so obvious that I kinda believed it, to the extend that I made this crazy blogpost about it... Which turned out to be true!

Is it weird that I expected more to happen? This whole game is such a different beast from the other Metal Gear games, where the gameplay is just so-so and the story blows you away.

It felt like it was the other way around this time, but there's many loose ends to be tied up. I wonder what will happen next?

Rumor has it that something will be announced today on 9/11. It could be some DLC plans perhaps? The alleged "cut content"?

To me this completely destroys MGS2's take on Snake, MGS2's is a meager baby version of this at best. To the point that makes MGS2 so much less to me, even if it was my introduction to the series. The point of MGS2 not playing as Raiden being a fuck you(I think Brad or whoever tries to reinforce that notion, but that idea is skin deep at best), the point was to remove yourself from the character of Snake to look at him from another perspective - to see him as a "legend" but the legend is only what you make of it, it is a fabricated image. In MGSV, the removal of Snake is there a direct to the player as not just a surrogate for the players of the series (as Raiden was trying to be a surrogate or imitation of the players going through MG1, 2, and Solid to varying degrees) but as well to allow the player to see themselves removed from Snake and, in a sense "becoming" Big Boss, inheriting both the good and the bad that comes along with that. Since you as the player have all of his memories "in planted" in you from playing each game, you play the game as you see fit, fabricating your own image of the game, its world, how you play it, and of course the Boss himself..."Snake."

@ohnooh:

Big Boss and Ahab were put into a coma for 9 years, in that time the surgery was done at Zero's request to make Ahab the duplicate of Big Boss, to the point Ahab believed he was Big Boss and his old self was gone completely. The mirror thing is just a perception trick in the Man Who Sold the World, Ahab was awakening after a 9 year coma with extensive work done to him to change his identity physically and mentally, he sees things that may or may not be there, like his old self.

Big Boss went into hiding because he was building a literal country, as they said. Not just another MSF, which is what Diamond Dogs is. Diamond Dogs and MSF are merely small test runs of what Outer Heaven really aims to become. And Venom Snake is legendary soldier because he's programmed to be, because Venom Snake's memories are your memories, as the player of the Metal Gear series. The Liquid Snake DNA thing was a red herring, because everyone on Mother Base was convinced Venom Snake was Big Boss, they did the test.

I mean I kind of like the idea of the Epilogue having you play as Ishmael instead but then it would have devolved to what is basically an weird escort mission, which probably would have been worse. As well I think I liked the intro a lot more than other people.

I doubted myself and let 'memes' cloud my perception. Ryckert talking about Big Boss hallucinating, had me convinced weeks ago that's all it was.

Maybe I missed a beat in between the last 3 pages but where the heck are you guys getting that BB's eye (the real BB) was shot by a bullet? Or even muzzle flashed? It was CUT THROUGH with a knife by The Boss in MGS3.

Ignore if you're talking about V/Venom/Medic instead...

I sorta had an inkling you weren't playing the real big boss, (mgs4 big boss had no shrapnel so it was a red flag) but I still thought it was a pretty interesting how it all played out.

@dualface: uhhhh watch that cutscene again. She doesn't stab him. Ocelot's gun's muzzle flash takes out the eye

I had the twist spoiled for me unfortunately, the big one being that you're not Snake, but the doctor. That was unfortunate, but awkwardly, I didn't realize Big Boss was Ishmael until I started the final mission. I just finished the game. I think there may be more? I got back to base and Code Talker mentioned something about watching Kaz. I really want to talk about this game, but don't know where to start. Also, notice how the Phantom not talking as much, while saying 'made sense' isn't the right way to say it, kind of made sense? I mean, "Ishmael" talked a lot in the short span he was in it. Dang, I don't know what to talk about, there's a lot. Oh, and where the hell is Quiet? I did her mission, and she left, now I don't have her anymore. Is she gone, or will she be back after I progress? If she is, that's a bummer, and weird. Her mission was the final one before getting to the Hospital mission, and I have to say, that was the mission I died the most on, and became most frustrated at, which is kind of fitting for a final mission. I think I could have perhaps made it easier if I took other stuff, or ventured to other areas of the map. Those final tanks kill in one hit, and that got me a bunch. I have to get all the Paz photos, then see what happens after that too.

@ntm: Exactly, Ahab seems to be way more stoic and reserved in nature.

@pyrodactyl: Why would psycho have the strain? He is always wearing his mask.

@grixxel: If you remember the part, Psycho Mantis, just before Skull Face dies, takes the vial with the strain. I don't think he means in terms of being infected.

Quiet's gone. It's heavily implied that she's dead now because of the English virus in her.

Isn't he the Big Boss that Snake kills in MG1? In the very last scene he's listening to a tape called Operation Intrude N313.

@akyho: Ha! I had the same reaction to the Eli DNA test. At first I was thinking "it HAS to be Liquid" I felt pretty dumb once I saw the twist and realised why their DNA didn't match.

@quarters: No. Then what's that scene in which it's raining? I never saw that yet. Unless that came earlier and I just somehow didn't unlock it. I have the feeling there's another mission. I hadn't actually watched this yet, though I saw her on her knees on YouTube a while back. And I just watched it in full with Ocelot in her place...

@petiew: yes he is.

Yeah, I understand that MGSV leaves a lot of room for meta-narrative speculation, but that's sort of my point. It leaves no room for narrative speculation. Without saying anything interesting about the narrative of the Metal Gear Solid series it's just self-serving. The meta-narrative loses its impact. It doesn't change the fact that nothing that happens in MGSV has any sort of influence on the rest of the series. You can argue all day that it's meta-narrative commentary is superior to MGS2's (I will still argue til I'm blue in the face that it's not) but it only sets out to achieve, at best, half of what MGS2 did.

@quarters Quiet isn't dead, she just left. The parasite kills you by destroying your lungs, something Quiet doesn't have anymore.

@petiew: It says during the year dates that scroll down in the end. It says "Solid Snake kills Big Boss Phantom", or something along those lines. So yeah, in the original Metal Gear. And then in MG2, that's when he kills the real one, but the Patriots bring him back. Also, those things that scroll down describing what happens through the years... I'm a fine, fast reader, but that goes by way to fast for me to read it all well.

Oh, and another thing that kind of hints at him not being Big Boss, adding to the original post. Remember how in the first mission where you save Kaz, as he's with you, Kaz says something like "What, no 'kept you waiting, huh?'" And also, if you're interested, you can watch Stefanie Joosten (the woman that played Quiet) play MGS5.

http://www.twitch.tv/stefaniejoosten/v/14236491

The rain scene is supposed to be prior, when your buddy level maxes out. And if you're talking about the shower scene, then that's from going too long without a shower and coming back to base. If Quiet is there, you get that version of the scene. The finale of Mission 45 is supposed to be her last scene, which is set up by the scene between her and Code Talker from earlier(the torture one).

@quarters: It's not. The buddy level has been maxed out for Quiet for a long time, and the scene hadn't happened, though I'm thinking if it doesn't come after, it is just a scene that just so happens to trigger when you align both going to mother base, as it rains, and perhaps I just never did that at the correct time. No, I'm not talking about the shower scene in which she interferes Ocelot to have you shower with her. Okay, I mean it may have to do with the bond level, but also a certain time you go, because like I said, I never got it. I'm just reading about it now, and yeah, sounds as if she is gone for good, which is an incredibly awkward thing for a game to do. There are some work around's I am reading, but none that are ideal. Some are already petitioning for them to add something in to bring her back; I won't be signing it, but it would be nice to have her back as a buddy. Interesting. It'd also be cool if there was some hidden way to get her back through some story element. Some have even said that they'd pay to have her back... That's a bit extreme.