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ahoodedfigure

I guess it's sunk cost. No need to torture myself over what are effectively phantasms.

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A Skyrim (or Elder Scrolls in general) wishlist

My progress in Morrowind continues. I've probably achieved more in this game than I ever have in any game previously, despite a few crashes (one of them completely new to me that told me my disc was damaged when it bloody well isn't. I wonder if the disc reader is failing). I've "liberated" many artifacts, including stuff I haven't ever seen before (though I remember my trusty Skull Crusher, I haven't seen the Staff of Magnus since I saw it playing in old Arena), and I've actually taken the time to read a few books, many of which are actually pretty enjoyable if you take the time to read them.
 
There have been some crazy-broken quests, though. People mentioning things they have no way of knowing, conversation items not popping up unless I do things the way the designers planned even though I pretty much did what they said, obscure quest orders that, if done out of order, leave you lost. 
 
With that in mind, I've come up with a sort of a wish list to the Elder Scrolls makers that I hope will in some way be fulfilled. But like wishes in general, it's more an expression of need rather than expectation of anything actually happening. I'll probably say a few things here that may ruffle a few feathers, I dunno. I'll try to start with the most important stuff first. Here goes--

 

(1) Do Your Best to Make Quests Withstand Player Tinkering (aka Busted Quests Are a Bummer). 

 
The Elder Scrolls has a reputation of being an open world series, with players ostensibly able to do just about anything they want. I'll argue that you may be able to do anything you want, but many of the things you do will break the game.
 
I'm not just talking about killing major NPCs here. I've had incidents where talking to a character and refusing an earlier quest will make it impossible for me to heal them with the gift of a potion because they refuse to talk to me, which doesn't seem intentional. Many of these quest breakages could easily be explained with a sentence or two from the game: "I don't care you want to heal me, I'm too busy looking for this stupid nick-nack to talk to you right now"... *doom*. It means tying up loose ends and making sure that the player is at least told somehow that what they're doing, while not optimal, isn't going to make the entire quest hang up forever.
 
The solution to this is much easier than it sounds. These are computers we're dealing with, and they're designed to handle this kind of abuse when it's hard for us humans to wrap our mind around the possibility monster we've created.   There's one scripting language that's absolutely brilliant at keeping track of player possibilities that would actually be damned useful for folks at Bethesda, or anyone who wants to make a complicated game. I present to you:
 
Inform 7
 
For those of you who aren't slapping your heads, this is the seventh generation of code whose origin lies in games like Zork and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It's a text adventure game creation engine.  I know, "eeeee!" and all that. It's got a brilliant feature that will make my point for me if you watch this short video (the debugging starts at 3:10, but the really cool stuff starts a few minutes later).
 
Inform 7 has a mode that lets you keep track of input possibilities you've made, then allows you to instantly replay up to that point in the game to see if anything's not acting the way you want. It lets you set an optimal path, called a "blessed path," so that when you're adding other possibilities you'll know if you accidentally screw up the this path for a given set of variables. While I don't understand the limits of this system, this or another scripting system, with no graphics to complicate things, would be a very useful way to keep track of all the possibilities; rather than creating quests in isolation you start working on that tapestry from the moment you begin, as it seems like was happening in my potion example above.
 
Adding this safeguard doesn't mean you have to forbid players from alternate solutions, but what it does is help you ACCOUNT for them, so that when you're polishing the code you can at least add explanatory text telling them they're doing it wrong, or even add a side event you didn't even imagine doing before that accounts for the player's unwillingness to conform to your narrow script. This opens up the world more than having a wide playground to play in, since it interconnects things. 
 
(This is what I've been trying to talk about with Bioware games I've played and seen: while Bioware tends to provide a decidedly linear experience, it feels less linear because they account for specific player actions, even if they supposedly break sequence.  I've seen such things in Jade Empire, where I deliberately went out of my way to see a place I'd long ago liberated from monsters and was rewarded by some spirits for my troubles, or Baldur's Gate, which actually had quite a few ways which the player could handle a main quest line, none of which broke the quest. I suspect Bioware maps things out similar to a scripting system, if they don't already use one themselves.)
 

(2) Let the Game Check Savegame, Item, and Quest Integrity


More than once I've had games crash or become unplayable in Morrowind, and I wonder if sometimes it could have been avoided by the system if it checked to see if there were invalid item placements, missing NPCs, weirdly placed NPCs, that sort of thing.  I would rather see an NPC pop back to where they were supposed to be than have the game be ruined because stupid NPC decides to stand in a doorway and never move, or fall through floor into the abyss and become unkillable.
 
Connected to the scripting system above, when a player does something that causes an error, the game should, when reloading a save, check to see if there's a sequence problem. If said NPC no longer exists in the game world without having been removed by legitimate means (it's out of bounds, for instance), return them there.
 
Perhaps it's not true with Oblivion, but I found in Morrowind that errors seemed to pile up upon each other, to the point where crashes became more frequent. There's a rather famous error where NPCs actually move north a few steps every year, to the point where they disappear. This is not the most encouraging of timing elements.
 

(3) Don't Be Afraid of Spreadsheets. Just Make them Pretty, and Let Us Cross-Reference.

 
Information organization is one of the most daunting aspects of any Elder Scrolls game, and I think that while the games have become more deliciously varied over the years, the amount of information you have to keep straight can be overwhelming.  
 
Morrowind tried to simplify all the quest organization by allowing you to look up keywords by their first letter, but if elsewhere a person is referred to by their last name, that sort of doesn't work. Many times I wanted to figure out where I was supposed to find person X and found that they were usually mentioned by a last name, making it impossible for me to look up. A knowledge base would be much more helpful. 
 
A knowledge base would be a supplementary form of information that reflects everything the player has been told. This has arguably already been done in Morrowind, but it wound up being really hard to navigate. Rather than making it linear (and making the inventory linear) it should be organized as a tree. I imagined this while scrolling through my (admittedly ridiculous) potion collection. Since it already classifies items in the game, why not let those classifications be represented visually. Instead of scrolling down, in the case of Oblivion, through several item types to find the thing you want at the bottom, why not have a list of classes, and within those classes a list of alchemical components, or potions, or quest items.  
 
Then, and this is the scary part, let the player pick how they're organized. Sometimes, alphabetical order is the absolute worst way to do it.
 
Similarly, you could have quests and encounters listed in a tree format, organizable by the player such that you could look for conversations only with a certain faction, events that only happened in a certain region, and a few other headings that the player would find useful.
 

(4) Let the Easy Stuff Be Optional, Allow Hard Stuff for Those Who Want It

 
Hardcore mode in New Vegas was a bust according to some. It had you heal slower, drink water, sleep, and eat food, but many of these things were a bit too easy to keep up with, so there wasn't much of a challenge there.  For me though, such things don't need to add challenge so much as add a bit of texture to the game. Even if it doesn't make the game much harder, I think it would be cool to have to do these things in an Elder Scrolls game-- including with fast travel.
 
I've heard people say that if you don't want to use fast travel don't, but the idea of saving thirty minutes of walking time is hard to avoid. In Morrowind there was fast travel of a sort, but it required the player to actually master it, which I find much more satisfying than being able to teleport anywhere without risk of encounter. Even the overmap in the older fallout games allowed for random encounters, and some of the most charming incidents in the game were in those isolated spots. Random encounters are not a bad thing; they break up gameplay and provide the player with challenges they didn't expect.
 
Make fast travel a bit more challenging than just beaming from one place to another, and I don't think too many people will complain. Even Daggerfall's fast travel made you pay to stay in inns, let you choose between reckless travel to speed up time and safe travel which cost less but took longer, and pay more to travel quickly by sea. Morrowind's is still my favorite just because it feels like it's part of the world...  but the problems of organizing information (see point 2 above) that make it a bit of a pain to find things NOT on the fast travel hubs.
 
You could even have these textures/inconveniences extend to other processes, like the journal. At least for systems with keyboard input, being forced to type out journal entries MIGHT be interesting, if you're allowed to hook back up to the knowledge base if you get frustrated.
 
There is some hope on this front, if only in the news that the HUD doesn't have to be up at all in Skyrim. Makes me wonder if the compass will at least allow for you to pick whether or not the quest marker is there, but I don't know enough to say.
 

(5) Don't Let the Music Suddenly Stop During an Encounter


It's a bit weird to hear pleasant music when you're being gnawed to death by a wolf, true, but the alternative, for the beautiful orchestra to suddenly put down all its instruments and stare at you when Monster Y has noticed you and is slowly bounding toward your position sort of ruins the element of surprise. As much as I complain about Cliff Racers pecking at my head, I think it's OK to let the music reflect player awareness of a threat, rather than be the source of it.
 
The way it works in Morrowind is that once a threat has noticed you, the ambient music screeches to a halt and the drums of war begin. This could be if a little mudcrab is trying in vain to climb a huge hill that's standing in between.
 
Instead of this, let it key on player sight: If a threat is visible, the music gives you a warning that stands for player instinct kicking in. You could also allow for audio cues to stand in for this change in music (increasingly loud footfalls, growls), and let the music only kick in when attack rolls begin (or actually attack attempts, if they really did get rid of attack rolls for good). That way it more reflects the player experience, rather than directing it.
 
This does create a side issue that I just realized, in that if you hear the battle music it won't be a good idea to save until the battle's concluded. If you save in my version of things, you might put yourself in a bit of a bad position. If the game refused to let you save, or at least warned you of the threat, then you could use trying to save as a way to detect threats (although I guess this isn't too big of a deal, since the ability to know if animals were around was already there before).
 
Maybe a "check surroundings" command would help with this. You spend a minute noting what's around you, and this will let you identify plants you've seen before, identify any animals nearby, and any places you've been to before (along with "some sort of temple" and the like standing in for the stuff you haven't visited yet). Any threats will become fully known at this point, even if they're stalking far away from the player, and you'll also get to note things you can see with your eyes that aren't necessarily on the map. Sorta like real life.

 

(6) We're Getting People to Do Activities in ES, Why Not Animals?

 
Not talking about [insert offensive term here] so much, shame on you for thinking it, but can we get animals to do more than list about waiting to run into the player? Have them forage, have them maybe have a den with their offspring. I know that in Oblivion they can attack each other, but wouldn't it be neat if a player going out of his or her way to exterminate a certain type of creature actually affect the food web, such that some animals wind up being more populous over time?  Or how about some creatures that are usually not hostile attacking, with other animals that are usually hostile sated by a kill and thus uninterested in the player?  They'd seem less like MMO mobs that way.
 
 

(7) Don't Be Afraid to Let Alchemy Get Crazy Complex

 
It's fine if you're looking for a known effect to be able to only see the components that will work for that effect, but please let us combine stuff in weird ways and possibly find new properties. Experimentation is damned fun.
 
Would also be neat if some common alchemical components still took a bit of doing. Diving for pearls is a nice little sub-game, but why not make a lot of processes like that? And varying sample quality, with degrading quality over time (the higher your skill the longer you can keep components before they spoil) would be nice for a Hardcore sort of setting (when combining components, you can tell it to start with the worst components first (for practice) or best components first (when you don't have many components and are trying to create something good)). It would also be neat if some items, when they spoil, actually gain properties (that's where alcohol comes from, kids).
 
It doesn't have to be a discrete minigame, but it would be fun to have a pretty deep combination system, sort of like the stuff you find in Diablo II, allowing for a bunch of different ways to customize the experience if you're willing to put in the time, but still allowing for some useful potions if you can't be bothered.
 
 Yeah, I like alchemy. 

 --
 
Well, I'm getting a bit exhausted, but these were the ideas that I came up with just sitting here. Feel free to correct anything I missed or mis-wrote, or add your own suggestions in the comments. I may make another one of these if more occur to me (or I remember all the ones I thought of before starting to write this!).
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ahoodedfigure

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Edited By ahoodedfigure

My progress in Morrowind continues. I've probably achieved more in this game than I ever have in any game previously, despite a few crashes (one of them completely new to me that told me my disc was damaged when it bloody well isn't. I wonder if the disc reader is failing). I've "liberated" many artifacts, including stuff I haven't ever seen before (though I remember my trusty Skull Crusher, I haven't seen the Staff of Magnus since I saw it playing in old Arena), and I've actually taken the time to read a few books, many of which are actually pretty enjoyable if you take the time to read them.
 
There have been some crazy-broken quests, though. People mentioning things they have no way of knowing, conversation items not popping up unless I do things the way the designers planned even though I pretty much did what they said, obscure quest orders that, if done out of order, leave you lost. 
 
With that in mind, I've come up with a sort of a wish list to the Elder Scrolls makers that I hope will in some way be fulfilled. But like wishes in general, it's more an expression of need rather than expectation of anything actually happening. I'll probably say a few things here that may ruffle a few feathers, I dunno. I'll try to start with the most important stuff first. Here goes--

 

(1) Do Your Best to Make Quests Withstand Player Tinkering (aka Busted Quests Are a Bummer). 

 
The Elder Scrolls has a reputation of being an open world series, with players ostensibly able to do just about anything they want. I'll argue that you may be able to do anything you want, but many of the things you do will break the game.
 
I'm not just talking about killing major NPCs here. I've had incidents where talking to a character and refusing an earlier quest will make it impossible for me to heal them with the gift of a potion because they refuse to talk to me, which doesn't seem intentional. Many of these quest breakages could easily be explained with a sentence or two from the game: "I don't care you want to heal me, I'm too busy looking for this stupid nick-nack to talk to you right now"... *doom*. It means tying up loose ends and making sure that the player is at least told somehow that what they're doing, while not optimal, isn't going to make the entire quest hang up forever.
 
The solution to this is much easier than it sounds. These are computers we're dealing with, and they're designed to handle this kind of abuse when it's hard for us humans to wrap our mind around the possibility monster we've created.   There's one scripting language that's absolutely brilliant at keeping track of player possibilities that would actually be damned useful for folks at Bethesda, or anyone who wants to make a complicated game. I present to you:
 
Inform 7
 
For those of you who aren't slapping your heads, this is the seventh generation of code whose origin lies in games like Zork and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It's a text adventure game creation engine.  I know, "eeeee!" and all that. It's got a brilliant feature that will make my point for me if you watch this short video (the debugging starts at 3:10, but the really cool stuff starts a few minutes later).
 
Inform 7 has a mode that lets you keep track of input possibilities you've made, then allows you to instantly replay up to that point in the game to see if anything's not acting the way you want. It lets you set an optimal path, called a "blessed path," so that when you're adding other possibilities you'll know if you accidentally screw up the this path for a given set of variables. While I don't understand the limits of this system, this or another scripting system, with no graphics to complicate things, would be a very useful way to keep track of all the possibilities; rather than creating quests in isolation you start working on that tapestry from the moment you begin, as it seems like was happening in my potion example above.
 
Adding this safeguard doesn't mean you have to forbid players from alternate solutions, but what it does is help you ACCOUNT for them, so that when you're polishing the code you can at least add explanatory text telling them they're doing it wrong, or even add a side event you didn't even imagine doing before that accounts for the player's unwillingness to conform to your narrow script. This opens up the world more than having a wide playground to play in, since it interconnects things. 
 
(This is what I've been trying to talk about with Bioware games I've played and seen: while Bioware tends to provide a decidedly linear experience, it feels less linear because they account for specific player actions, even if they supposedly break sequence.  I've seen such things in Jade Empire, where I deliberately went out of my way to see a place I'd long ago liberated from monsters and was rewarded by some spirits for my troubles, or Baldur's Gate, which actually had quite a few ways which the player could handle a main quest line, none of which broke the quest. I suspect Bioware maps things out similar to a scripting system, if they don't already use one themselves.)
 

(2) Let the Game Check Savegame, Item, and Quest Integrity


More than once I've had games crash or become unplayable in Morrowind, and I wonder if sometimes it could have been avoided by the system if it checked to see if there were invalid item placements, missing NPCs, weirdly placed NPCs, that sort of thing.  I would rather see an NPC pop back to where they were supposed to be than have the game be ruined because stupid NPC decides to stand in a doorway and never move, or fall through floor into the abyss and become unkillable.
 
Connected to the scripting system above, when a player does something that causes an error, the game should, when reloading a save, check to see if there's a sequence problem. If said NPC no longer exists in the game world without having been removed by legitimate means (it's out of bounds, for instance), return them there.
 
Perhaps it's not true with Oblivion, but I found in Morrowind that errors seemed to pile up upon each other, to the point where crashes became more frequent. There's a rather famous error where NPCs actually move north a few steps every year, to the point where they disappear. This is not the most encouraging of timing elements.
 

(3) Don't Be Afraid of Spreadsheets. Just Make them Pretty, and Let Us Cross-Reference.

 
Information organization is one of the most daunting aspects of any Elder Scrolls game, and I think that while the games have become more deliciously varied over the years, the amount of information you have to keep straight can be overwhelming.  
 
Morrowind tried to simplify all the quest organization by allowing you to look up keywords by their first letter, but if elsewhere a person is referred to by their last name, that sort of doesn't work. Many times I wanted to figure out where I was supposed to find person X and found that they were usually mentioned by a last name, making it impossible for me to look up. A knowledge base would be much more helpful. 
 
A knowledge base would be a supplementary form of information that reflects everything the player has been told. This has arguably already been done in Morrowind, but it wound up being really hard to navigate. Rather than making it linear (and making the inventory linear) it should be organized as a tree. I imagined this while scrolling through my (admittedly ridiculous) potion collection. Since it already classifies items in the game, why not let those classifications be represented visually. Instead of scrolling down, in the case of Oblivion, through several item types to find the thing you want at the bottom, why not have a list of classes, and within those classes a list of alchemical components, or potions, or quest items.  
 
Then, and this is the scary part, let the player pick how they're organized. Sometimes, alphabetical order is the absolute worst way to do it.
 
Similarly, you could have quests and encounters listed in a tree format, organizable by the player such that you could look for conversations only with a certain faction, events that only happened in a certain region, and a few other headings that the player would find useful.
 

(4) Let the Easy Stuff Be Optional, Allow Hard Stuff for Those Who Want It

 
Hardcore mode in New Vegas was a bust according to some. It had you heal slower, drink water, sleep, and eat food, but many of these things were a bit too easy to keep up with, so there wasn't much of a challenge there.  For me though, such things don't need to add challenge so much as add a bit of texture to the game. Even if it doesn't make the game much harder, I think it would be cool to have to do these things in an Elder Scrolls game-- including with fast travel.
 
I've heard people say that if you don't want to use fast travel don't, but the idea of saving thirty minutes of walking time is hard to avoid. In Morrowind there was fast travel of a sort, but it required the player to actually master it, which I find much more satisfying than being able to teleport anywhere without risk of encounter. Even the overmap in the older fallout games allowed for random encounters, and some of the most charming incidents in the game were in those isolated spots. Random encounters are not a bad thing; they break up gameplay and provide the player with challenges they didn't expect.
 
Make fast travel a bit more challenging than just beaming from one place to another, and I don't think too many people will complain. Even Daggerfall's fast travel made you pay to stay in inns, let you choose between reckless travel to speed up time and safe travel which cost less but took longer, and pay more to travel quickly by sea. Morrowind's is still my favorite just because it feels like it's part of the world...  but the problems of organizing information (see point 2 above) that make it a bit of a pain to find things NOT on the fast travel hubs.
 
You could even have these textures/inconveniences extend to other processes, like the journal. At least for systems with keyboard input, being forced to type out journal entries MIGHT be interesting, if you're allowed to hook back up to the knowledge base if you get frustrated.
 
There is some hope on this front, if only in the news that the HUD doesn't have to be up at all in Skyrim. Makes me wonder if the compass will at least allow for you to pick whether or not the quest marker is there, but I don't know enough to say.
 

(5) Don't Let the Music Suddenly Stop During an Encounter


It's a bit weird to hear pleasant music when you're being gnawed to death by a wolf, true, but the alternative, for the beautiful orchestra to suddenly put down all its instruments and stare at you when Monster Y has noticed you and is slowly bounding toward your position sort of ruins the element of surprise. As much as I complain about Cliff Racers pecking at my head, I think it's OK to let the music reflect player awareness of a threat, rather than be the source of it.
 
The way it works in Morrowind is that once a threat has noticed you, the ambient music screeches to a halt and the drums of war begin. This could be if a little mudcrab is trying in vain to climb a huge hill that's standing in between.
 
Instead of this, let it key on player sight: If a threat is visible, the music gives you a warning that stands for player instinct kicking in. You could also allow for audio cues to stand in for this change in music (increasingly loud footfalls, growls), and let the music only kick in when attack rolls begin (or actually attack attempts, if they really did get rid of attack rolls for good). That way it more reflects the player experience, rather than directing it.
 
This does create a side issue that I just realized, in that if you hear the battle music it won't be a good idea to save until the battle's concluded. If you save in my version of things, you might put yourself in a bit of a bad position. If the game refused to let you save, or at least warned you of the threat, then you could use trying to save as a way to detect threats (although I guess this isn't too big of a deal, since the ability to know if animals were around was already there before).
 
Maybe a "check surroundings" command would help with this. You spend a minute noting what's around you, and this will let you identify plants you've seen before, identify any animals nearby, and any places you've been to before (along with "some sort of temple" and the like standing in for the stuff you haven't visited yet). Any threats will become fully known at this point, even if they're stalking far away from the player, and you'll also get to note things you can see with your eyes that aren't necessarily on the map. Sorta like real life.

 

(6) We're Getting People to Do Activities in ES, Why Not Animals?

 
Not talking about [insert offensive term here] so much, shame on you for thinking it, but can we get animals to do more than list about waiting to run into the player? Have them forage, have them maybe have a den with their offspring. I know that in Oblivion they can attack each other, but wouldn't it be neat if a player going out of his or her way to exterminate a certain type of creature actually affect the food web, such that some animals wind up being more populous over time?  Or how about some creatures that are usually not hostile attacking, with other animals that are usually hostile sated by a kill and thus uninterested in the player?  They'd seem less like MMO mobs that way.
 
 

(7) Don't Be Afraid to Let Alchemy Get Crazy Complex

 
It's fine if you're looking for a known effect to be able to only see the components that will work for that effect, but please let us combine stuff in weird ways and possibly find new properties. Experimentation is damned fun.
 
Would also be neat if some common alchemical components still took a bit of doing. Diving for pearls is a nice little sub-game, but why not make a lot of processes like that? And varying sample quality, with degrading quality over time (the higher your skill the longer you can keep components before they spoil) would be nice for a Hardcore sort of setting (when combining components, you can tell it to start with the worst components first (for practice) or best components first (when you don't have many components and are trying to create something good)). It would also be neat if some items, when they spoil, actually gain properties (that's where alcohol comes from, kids).
 
It doesn't have to be a discrete minigame, but it would be fun to have a pretty deep combination system, sort of like the stuff you find in Diablo II, allowing for a bunch of different ways to customize the experience if you're willing to put in the time, but still allowing for some useful potions if you can't be bothered.
 
 Yeah, I like alchemy. 

 --
 
Well, I'm getting a bit exhausted, but these were the ideas that I came up with just sitting here. Feel free to correct anything I missed or mis-wrote, or add your own suggestions in the comments. I may make another one of these if more occur to me (or I remember all the ones I thought of before starting to write this!).
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sameeeeam

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Edited By sameeeeam

Totally agree with the music bit. It's such a minor thing, but it has bugged me in all past ES games.

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Mod Support?

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@No0b0rAmA:  Make that a complete sentence and I could answer you.
 
@Underachiever007: I forget if the music changed in Daggerfall or not. It's maybe why they changed it with Morrowind, with the music seeming not to care about what's going on with the player at that moment, but what I felt was that the music was the theme for the environment you were in. The combat you were having with random skeleton was incidental, and thus it felt like that combat was part of the environment, rather than central to the situation. If you make the music switch every time a random bug tries to sting you, even if it isn't a threat anymore, it alters the tone, almost making it comical. Imagine that happening in a movie, where a guy's walking through the green fields, the music gets dark all of a sudden, a wild dog jumps up and tries to bite him, he clubs it, the music gets nice again until a few seconds later...
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A Likely Story

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Regarding number 6, it has been confirmed that animals do actually have personality and different behaviors now. To the complexity of having an intricate food web? Don't count on it, but an example given in several interviews and articles has been wolves; they will go out to hunt in packs, stick around the corpse of their prey if they get a kill, and retreat back to their dens at night. If I remember correctly, it has also been said that not every creature will attack you on sight, it depends on what kind of creature they are, what they're doing at the time, etc. 
 
As much as I love your ideas, I know that most won't happen. The more and more I think about it, the more and more I start to realize how much better this series could be, but won't be. Take alchemy, for example. Would an in-depth system like yours be awesome? Yes, it freaking would be. Will it ever happen in the Elder Scrolls? No, at least not at the rate it's going now. Same with a lot of what you mentioned in number 4. I would love, love, love a journal in which I, MYSELF, actually take notes in (and not just text, but sketches as well); I would die for a lifelike, immersive fast travel system; and God knows I would kill to have that damn compass marker removed. Sounds like the compass might be optional, which is nice, but will the other two be in? Highly unlikely. I can see fast travel getting some sort of Morrowind-esque system thrown in (alongside with Oblivion teleporation), but I have a feeling it'll be a little gimmick thrown in at last minute just to please the MW fans. 
 
I need to read up more on Inform 7, as it does sound very intriguing. 
 
Great post. Would write more but I gotta run, but you, sir (or mam), have some damn good ideas.

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@ahoodedfigure:   Def the music thing.  I really liked the "exploration music" in Oblivion.  So calm and peaceful.  Then, bam, one wolf shows up and ruins my music!!  Maybe there could be like an "encounter music" option that you could switch on/off
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And also, I was someone who used alchemy in Oblivion, so I wouldn't mind a more complex system there.  I'd welcome it, actually.

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thatfrood

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On the subject of the music:
 
doop doop doop, climbin' the red mountains... doop doop
*battle music*
FUCK where is it. Where is the enemy?
Where...
wh...
*look around*
uh... I don't see shi-*take damage*
AH FUCK WHAT WAS THAT
*take damage again*
WHAT THE FUCK
*take damage*
*look up*
AH FUCK THREE FUCKING CLIFF RACERS MOTHERFUCK

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Vaile

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Edited By Vaile

I think numbers 5 and 7 are totally awesome ideas, for what it's worth.

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ahoodedfigure

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@ThatFrood:  That is PRECISELY what happened to me like three hours ago. Three of them, pecking at my head. I can dispatch them in a hit or two now, but they're still the bane of my existence (those and slaughterfish/dreugh when I'm swimming). Doesn't matter how fast I am, fuckers are on top of me like gray on saltrice.
 
@sfighter21: Could you fill me in a bit on the alchemy system? All I know is the systems for the prior games. Oblivion's almost looked a bit too simplified, like you never fail at making a potion, never get drawbacks for certain combinations, can't combine stuff if you don't know what it does yet. That could all be wrong but that was what I picked up from what I managed to see.  Arena didn't have any, and in Daggerfall it was just recipes. In Morrowind you had positive and negative aspects that were revealed as your Alchemy score got better, but you could at any time combine ingredients even if you didn't know a thing about them and get the proper effects displayed in the effects window, so you could actually experiment and try different combinations without wasting components.   What I DO like from what I saw of Oblivion is that negative effects can be applied as poisons to weapons, which is a neat idea.
 
@Vaile: Much appreciated. I wonder if the music thing is just generally felt by a lot of players. I don't think that would be too hard to switch off for them, even if it was just a blatant switch that left you vulnerable to surprise.
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ahoodedfigure

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@Hobbies:  That animal behavior is good news to me. If they have a robust, low bug code and maybe something to let us enjoy the music a bit more without having to stand stock still, I'll be happy. I think I'll wait until I hear about how well the code actually performs before I consider getting it, but I like the direction they're heading as far as design, and the more I play Morrowind the more I understand the back story and enjoy all the little touches they inject into everything.
 
The journal is one of those things that I don't think would take a lot of doing, although I guess it would be a bit of a pain on consoles outside of notes.  But wouldn't it be nice to have, say, a big book where your character would copy down all the pertinent pages of all the books you find?  Or hire a scribe to do it for you?  I guess the only real answer is a physical journal, but the problems with physical stuff is always finding it again (I've lost my Aquaria alphabet twice now), and referencing information without in-game help. 
 
Your sketches idea is really neat. I guess with a mouse that wouldn't be too hard, but again, unless it's inside the game itself it's often easy to lose. I guess that's one spot where mods will probably work better than expecting anything to come from the designers themselves.
 
Inform 7 looks very nice. I've experimented with it a bit, but I wonder how far I can take it. I had an idea for a more choose-from-a-list/simple-commands-only thing, but I wonder if it might be easier to use another system for that, since Inform seems to be all about natural language processing. Or maybe I don't know enough. There's an interesting community behind this and other languages.
 
Thanks for the input, and glad to see your enthusiasm. It's why I write these things; I don't expect someone from Bethesda to wander to this page and be converted or anything, but I do enjoy the conversation that results in the comments, since it tells me there's always room to grow for these types of games, no matter who winds up making them.
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sfighter21

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Edited By sfighter21
@ahoodedfigure:   So, I got into alchemy kind of accidentally (unintentionally I guess you could say).  Basically (In Oblivion), as you may know, increasing your alchemy skill allowed you to increase your intelligence (Which is important as a Mage; More int = more Magic).  i think each ingredient had 4 effects which are discoverable as you level up in alchemy; some positive and negative.  You can make some potions that are better than ones you can purchase, then sell them for coin.  As far as I remember, you could never fail at making a potion.  You could, however, fail at harvesting ingredients.  Some of it was based on luck and dice rolls (I think).  Eventually, you could get good enough at alchemy to only need ONE ingredient to make a potion...pretty crazy.
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shiftymagician

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@sfighter21:  In Morrowind, you can fail at making potions however each potion made added a lot of experience to the alchemy skill.  Oblivion changed that so you can never fail at potion-making, but they also made it so you had to make tons more potions to level up, making the process more of a drag than Morrowind.
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Example1013

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In Oblivion, if you fucked up a possible quest, you'd get a little notice (and sometimes a note) saying that you fucked it up, and whatever could've happened wasn't going to. So they sort of fixed it. Still, I'd want a more...obvious solution, because I didn't even figure that out for a long time. 
 
 
I want some sort of basic smithing system, to be honest. There's already alchemy, and now I want smiths. Maybe even an entire smithing guild (or an attachment to a Fighter's Guild-type thing). I don't even care if you'd have to go to a specific spot (i.e. a forge) to do it, as long as that ended up in the game. 
 
 
Also, player-made gear (as in enchantments done with soul gems, or any crafted stuff) needs to be comparable to random loot, at least if one puts enough effort into leveling crafting skills. I never really used soul gems to enchant, because it was always a lot easier to just grab sigil stones from oblivion gates. 
 
The sigil stones sort of made a mess of everything, really, especially with the elemental shields. You could get max armor rating with any armor set (which is cool), but you also didn't have to make any sacrifices at all. Like, I ran with what equates to 100% resistances to fire and cold, with good elec resistance, because I used a Dark Elf, combined with some frost/lightning shield armor. 
 
I'd really like to see them take out the possibility for constant 100% chameleon, but at the same time I'd like to see them not put in a situation where you'd ever really say "this is bullshit, I want 100% chameleon gear". Fighting 8 liches, all of whom have nasty fucking drain/silence/kick-ass staves, as a hybrid fighter/mage, being one of those situations where I didn't even bother trying. 
 
And, as I said before, they need to put in at least a generic 1h hammer (specifically a hammer, not a mace), if not a unique one and call it Mjolnir (preferably both). We're going to fucking skyrim. There'd sure as hell better be Mjolnir.

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President_Barackbar

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@example1013 said:
" I want some sort of basic smithing system, to be honest. There's already alchemy, and now I want smiths. Maybe even an entire smithing guild (or an attachment to a Fighter's Guild-type thing). I don't even care if you'd have to go to a specific spot (i.e. a forge) to do it, as long as that ended up in the game. "
They have confirmed a smithing system for Skyrim. I would actually prefer it if alchemy, smithing, and enchanting had to be done outside of the field at special equipment. Also, I think that equipment degradation should be simplified. Rather than a number, there should just be some kind of modifier (like perfect, good, fair, poor, broken) and damage and protection should be adjusted accordingly.
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Pezen

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Edited By Pezen

I thought JRPGs taught us that random encounters were horribly atrocious experiences. My problem with fast travel is the fact that it kills the game to some extent. It makes the world seem smaller and it makes me rush to things much more than take my time. I would argue that instead of making a huge world with no content and then make you fast travel across all of that when the initial 'wow' factor of a world goes away. Make the world slightly smaller, more dense with actual things worth having there and skip fast travel all together. Sure, their vision has sort of been "scale 1:1 even in travel" but I think the added fast travel is a sign that having to travel that distance isn't always fun. When you're on a path and you look out over a lake or a mountain side, the size makes you appreciate the world. But "dead space" in big games are a big issue for me, because it makes the game seem unnecessarily big in comparison to content. Or make quests that doesn't have you travel a bazillion miles between plot points. Perhaps just make those grand voyages when you switch area of interest.  
 
Also, I would love to co-op an Elder Scrolls game, even if it's superficial. Running around in that world with a friend would be awesome.

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Example1013

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Edited By Example1013
@President_Barackbar: The smithing is good to hear about. I do have to cross my fingers, though, and hope that the gear is same-tier as what you'll find in loot (at least at higher smithing levels). Enchanting was a joke in Oblivion.
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@sfighter21:  I see. Weird that you can fail at harvesting. I would find that a bit more frustrating than failing at potion making, because you can at least rack up a good number of potential potion effects and up your intelligence through fortify potions to minimize the risk (and wow, can you exploit that if you're really dedicated. Just fortify intelligence, then make a fortify intelligence potion from THAT, which is better, and continue ad infinitum. I wouldn't say it was as exploitative as it could have been, given how crazy long it takes to get an intelligence so high you make potions that never effectively end, but it has made for potions potent enough that I don't bother with potion loot anymore). I sorta would miss being able to do that.
 
@ShiftyMagician: I also like that you can just eat stuff to gain a bit of experience for a skill.  I still smirk whenever I down a bunch of raw glass or scrap metal.
 
@Pezen: I think in many ways ES has sort of been moving in that direction, since the focus has always been tighter. I'd say Arena's focus was probably the tightest of all because there was no wilderness unless you actually traveled outside of the cities on purpose, and there was never a reason to, but Daggerfall was disgustingly massive with little of a need to see anything between points, Morrowind was maybe a step too big in places (at least until you figured out transport and the miracle of jumping really damned high). Oblivion seems like points on a map to me, though I've watched enough to know that you can do it if you 
 
The reason I talk about random encounters is that I'm not as dead set against them as other people seem to be. I like that there's a trade-off for every action, and not a simple solution, because with the simple solution the game loses a bit. Still, what you say suggests more the design ideas behind games like Gothic II, where everything is more tightly packed with interesting stuff so you don't really need to travel a long distance to find something cool. 
 
I think what you say about grand voyages between areas of interest is a very good idea. I've had the seed of that thought sometimes but it never really came to me so concisely as you said it. Rather than fetch something and come all the way back, you could just hear rumors of a thing and go find it yourself, and bring it back later if you wanted to.  There could be clusters of civilization and massive wilderness in between, but you only go to the massive wilderness if you really want to, and that's where they can bury a lot of discoveries and secrets, but you're not expected to criss-cross the whole of the map by anyone, since no one would dare do that themselves.
 
Heck, I'd like it if there was just some sort of time-lapse (without actually seeing everything in fast-forward). I'd usually not use it, but if I didn't want to spend half an hour traveling, but still didn't want to skip the whole experience, I think that's a reasonable compromise. 
 
@example1013: Sounds like the power creep problem. You make something more powerful, then things need to be more powerful to match that (and if you don't take advantage of the powerful stuff in the proper way, you're screwed). Pen and paper games used to, and still do, run into similar problems a lot, where a book will come out with a lot of new and interesting gear, but to keep up the challenge monsters will become more ridiculously powerful, expecting you to use the new books. You lose sight of why you're playing at all and it just becomes a silly, deadly fashion show.
 
And you know what, I don't think Mjolnir will be in there just because they have their own mythology to run, but perhaps YOUR character could be the one that creates a 1H hammer, calls it Mjolnir, and in the coming ages he will be regarded as a legend, then a god...
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shiftymagician

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Edited By shiftymagician
@ahoodedfigure: mmmmmm......raw ebony......
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ahoodedfigure

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@ShiftyMagician:  Doing that frees up carrying capacity :) I just wish you could eat all items in the game, because it sucks trying to find a place to drop an item so that the system doesn't keep track of it forever. :)
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GunslingerPanda

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Edited By GunslingerPanda

LIZARD MOUNTS!

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ahoodedfigure

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@GunslingerPanda:  It sounds like they're still struggling with horses at the time that podcast was made.  
 
But hell yes, lizard mounts.
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In regard about the quests, one of the Skyrim articles I read should give you some hope and dread. They mentioned killing a storekeeper with a quest, only for his sister to take up the shop and begrudingly give you the quest. The article also mentioned how assassination quests could lead you to having to choose between two NPCs you've spent a lot of time with, making the decision meaningful.
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You know what I'd like to see? Knocking on doors. Waltzing in to a private residence always felt wrong and the occupant's total lack of caring that I did so just made it worse.  I'd also like to see the world opened up. Each building being a separate cell requiring a load screen needs to go. I want to walk into and out of buildings without having a damn load screen in each direction.

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Crono

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Some amendments to this list: Don't release the game with a clunky, overly partitioned inventory/quest/menu screen. Allow us to organize our inventory. Allow multiple notes on the map. Allow menus to be resized on PC. Simply put - don't release the game with the notion that a mod can just fix your clunky interface design later - release the game with the kind of interface design that a respectable game design studio with a long and successful studio record (such as yourself) would release a game with - don't just leave it for the mods to improve!

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@Crono: Completely agree. I am very nervous about the direction they're taking the interface in (read up on it if you haven't already). Sounds incredibly gimmicky; all flash but no function. 
 
believe I read somewhere that the PC UI will differ from the console version (which was what was being demoed), so that's possibly a good sign.
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ahoodedfigure

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@LlamaLlama:  Meaningful decisions sounds like a definite step forward for this game, since I've...  oh man, I am a bit crestfallen here after spending so much time playing this stupid thing. I'll save it for the next blog, but I hope the replaced quest giver thing also has a replaced very vital main quest item thing. The killing someone stuff I could do without, actually, since that's the mark you want to make on the world, but if you're looting a random dungeon you run into, it would be super peachy if the game didn't up and become unplayable on you because one of those items you found happened to be a quest item...
 
@Bane: The lack of loading would be nice but I don't know if they're the folks to handle that sort of thing until that path is well trodden. Last I heard they were angsting about how far behind their horses were. I'll add one thing to your knocking on doors: I would like NPCs that will likely freak out and attack you, if they're going to do it for the perfectly reasonable reason that their territory is going to be violated, will warn you off instead of attacking you like insane zombie people.  Sometimes I was attacked by House Redoran, people who had no quarrel with me and who liked me better than House Telvanni, just because I happened to be there on a non-quest looting thing. Not sure if this sort of thing was de-amped for Oblivion but I began to resent how many people I had to kill over the course of a game.  Even if Oblivion doesn't let you kill some major NPCs, that looked a bit artificial a solution at times.  Maybe the daughter taking over sort of stuff is the only way to go there, as goofy as it sounds, if you didn't intend to murder them in the first place. 
 
@Crono: It does seem that allowing mods to fix things is OK with some people, but I don't think that's a very kind design philosophy. They seem to put a lot of work into their games, they seem already to be stressing out even though the game's in November, but this sort of thing should be figured out already, yes. I go a bit mad every time I have to open my inventory screen in Morrowind, and from what I've seen of Oblion's menu screen it's leagues better, but still looks like a bit of a bear to sift through, especially since you can't just organize the thing into categories yourself.

@Hobbies: While I imagine it's very pretty to look at, I wonder if it will just feel like more sifting. All I had seen was the skills, which doesn't sound like too big a deal since there are always 18 of them, but I dearly hope that equipment and other lists that expand over time won't be that way. Hard to know for sure since they try to keep everything close to the chest. I think they should probably hire a few of those modders to help smooth out their systems before release...
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Example1013

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@ahoodedfigure: There were actually tons of dungeons, shrines, camps, and the like spread out throughout Oblivion. Like, as in over a hundred. The guide book that I have has Cyrodiil split up into about 7 regions, and most have upwards of 40 different interesting places in them. If you just go running off into the countryside (as I used to do sometimes when it was early morning and I was tired and didn't want to actually play), you run across tons of areas to explore and look through. 
 
My problem with them, though, is that most of the areas weren't really worth exploring. Level scaling is part of it (why waste time and effort just to be sent home emptyhanded because the mobs are too tough or too numerous). 
 
But mostly it was the lack of any real reward. Basically, I'm saying the loot reward for going through most dungeons sucked. 
 
First off, Sigil Stones obviated the need to rely on random loot to get good enchanted weapons. If I wanted something, I picked out the enchantment I wanted, ran through an Oblivion Gate, and grabbed the Sigil Stone (rerolling was as easy as saving just before you grabbed it and loading that save if you got an unwanted stone). So for instance I had max armor and insane elemental resistance by level 12 because of the Elemental Shield Sigil Stones I enchanted my Orcish Armor with (the enchantment level was kind of weird, and might be an error, but that makes it even worse). I also had a 20 lightning damage 2h axe at the same level (same thing, might be a glitch). 25 frost shield is the highest frost shield enchantment available in the game, and 20 shock damage is as powerful an enchantment as the most powerful randomly generated items. Even worse, a top-tier sigil stone for elemental damage provides the highest damage enchantment in the game (pretty much). 
 
So basically, I didn't have to take one step into a dungeon to get the most powerful gear available in the game (all the most powerful jewels are quest rewards, as long as you're high enough level). The only reason why I'd basically ever go into dungeons was to grab loot to sell, or to level my character. And for those purposes, there were basically about 3 useful caves total, because only a couple had the proper attributes: an abundance of human enemies and bosses, because humans gave tons of loot. 
 
The random loot tables were just not strong enough in Oblivion to keep me dungeon-diving over and over again, which is why I eventually just stuck to one ideal cave for loot runs. 
 
This is an easy thing to fix: make better random loot, or scale down what's reliably available. Now, at the same time I'd like crafted gear to be comparable, but perhaps giving the most powerful, rarest random loot a slight edge over all but the toughest-to-obtain quest rewards would create a drive to explore all the neat non-quest zones. Perhaps even make one rare item that can only be found in a certain cave?
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Agent47

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I don't about all of that but I can tell you that for certain 100% that they already have #6 in Skyrim.The new radiant AI is used on creatures on well.Wolves hunt in packs and try to find food, they go to dens at night, they won't bother the player unless he is in spitting distance etc. things like that.

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ahoodedfigure

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@Agent47:  That could be really cool. Will like to see where they go with that.
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ahoodedfigure

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@example1013:  In Morrowind you'd have cool treasures deep in the larger caves. They were not level scaled, so like when I found my trusty Skull-Crusher my character took a serious bump up in effectiveness. Where I see the solution to this is in character skills, not the loot itself:  you can use anything you find, but how EFFECTIVE you are at using it is based on how well you've developed the one or more skills needed to master it. Since skills reflect on how leveled/developed you are, the character who is higher up will get more out of the widget than someone who stumbled upon it at low level, yet both will feel like they got a nice prize.
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Example1013

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@ahoodedfigure: I'm just saying that looting dungeons was basically worthless in Oblivion, because the best gear was to be had elsewhere, beyond maybe 2 random-loot pieces of jewelry that weren't available through other means (none of which I ever got). Certainly I've kept some of my Daedric Claymores of the Inferno, but only because they were 2h fire damage weapons (which I never used). Goldbrand dealt 22 fire damage, and thus had a superior enchantment, and if I ever decided to go grab a Transcendant Sigil Stone that dealt Fire damage, I could've enchanted a normal Daedric Claymore to be more powerful than the random enchanted one I found (the homebrewed one would deal 25 fire damage). 
 
Maybe at lower levels the random enchanted gear might be a bit more useful, but once I hit the level at which I was guaranteed Transcendant Sigil Stones, I only ever kept them out of convenience, and the fact that no shop would be able to give me anywhere near what the weapons were worth. 
 
It seems like Sigil Stones were introduced in Oblivion, so maybe Morrowind was a bit more balanced. But they essentially obviated dungeons (besides loot farming for gold). 
 
Also, pretty much the only non-leveled gear in Oblivion was from shops or quests (specifically the Daedric quests). There are like 2 pieces that can be found on your own (although both are extremely good), and no weapons (besides Umbra, but that's part of a quest, so it sort of doesn't count). 
 
Also (I didn't realize this) Oblivion's combat system is much more simplified. All "traditional" weapons fit into three classes (Blade, Blunt, and Marksman). Actually, just looking at the list of differences UESPWIki has between the two games, I just realized how much Oblivion kind of sucks comparatively. This is probably a good page to visit to just get an idea of what I'm talking about with differences. 
 
Like yeah, holy shit that list just basically killed any real love I had of Oblivion. I am severely disillusioned to the quality of the game now. Like, I no longer even feel like discussing the topic. Maybe I'll post back here later.
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ahoodedfigure

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@example1013:  Hehehe! I'm sorry, didn't mean to destroy the game for you :)
 
From what I've seen of Oblivion they took some steps to make it better but sacrificed quite a bit, and did a bit of the typical Bethesda reaching for the stars thing, which resulted in a lot of weirdness and bugs. There are plenty of people who swear by Morrowind or Oblivion as a clear winner. I haven't played Oblivion, but I think I would enjoy it for what it was, though I'd probably miss a lot of what was gone. Morrowind's done me a number several times, and though people will chide me for not playing the game perfectly I think it's inconsistent even in the way it tries to protect the player from damaging the main quest permanently, since it'll tell you you killed an important character, but it won't tell you an important item is lost. Granted, they probably weren't expecting items to be lost at all, but still.
 
As for the loot value thing, I've been experimenting a lot with enchanting items (there are no sigil stones in Morrowind, you're right), and while there may be more opportunity for people who are really good at enchanting, I seem to be able to make stuff that's usually a step or two below anything unique, or rare drops, that you find in the game. The dungeon loot tends to be inferior, though, often for gold farming like you say, although there were a few exceptions (since my character's an alchemist, though, even nuts and twigs are awesome).  It was a bit surprising to see that Goldbrand itself was relatively weak in your game, since despite my character not knowing a thing about swords I seriously considered keeping it given how big its fire bonus was.
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Example1013

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@ahoodedfigure: Yeah, that's the thing about personal enchanting, is that Bethesda didn't make custom enchantment any better (you can still totally use soul gems to enchant items, but they're weaker than random loot, which is weaker than Sigil Stone enchantment). 
 
Goldbrand isn't really that bad of a weapon. It turns out that Goldbrand does 1 more physical damage than a daedric longsword (highest-tier comparable item), and just does 3 less fire damage, so overall in the endgame, when there are Xivilai and other creatures with fire resistance or spell absorption, Goldbrand actually isn't too bad. Still, for overall damage, Goldbrand is slightly weaker. 
 
Now, having said all this, there are ways to make personal enchantments useful, and the UESP wiki goes into a ton of them on their Custom Weapons page. Still, overall, quest items are better than random loot, which is the problem. 
 
I mean, look at it this way. On my last trip to close an Oblivion gate, I found a ring that gives my character +10 to all stats, and I'm never going to use it (except perhaps for the Personality buff), because the rings I have are just so much better.  Literally, one ring gives me 33% reflect weapon damage, and the other one gives 25% or 35% reflect spells (both have an extra effect as well), and thus I wouldn't sacrifice either of them just for a stat buff, especially considering my Strength, Endurance, and Willpower are all already maxed, and I'll have maxed Intelligence once I level again (the first 3 are the only ones that matter directly, and Intelligence is just for mana).
 
Anyways, it's not so bad that I looked up Morrowind. I went out and bought it on Saturday (GOTY edition was $20), and I now have it installed on my computer, so it worked out. I'm going to pick up the Deluxe GOTY edition of Oblivion off of Steam, too, for the next character I start, because the PS3 version just isn't quite as good (none of the plug-ins, many bugs left unfixed, etc.).
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ahoodedfigure

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@example1013:  Let me know how Morrowind goes for you. I've finishing up Bloodmoon and finished the main quest in Tribunal in preparation for finishing the main quest of the main game. 
 
I'd say the balance is always in favor of found items in Morrowind, specifically major artifacts and quest items. I'm cool with that, because what you gain in power you might lose in flexibility. I've wound up making some really handy items that fit my character, but don't have nearly the amount of stat boosts a found item does. Mostly I've been enchanting glass armor since it doesn't weigh much, and have two gauntlets, each from different main quest events.  The character looks a bit like a junk pile but still kicks ass.  It's still a big pain fiddle with switching artifacts and spells, though. I imagine the PC version has shortcut keys that cut down on the irritation.  
 
If I ever get Skyrim, though, I can't imagine upgrading to a better PC just for that. It seems like a very expensive game, if you look at it that way. I'd probably be better off just pretending I was playing it.
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Bollard

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@ahoodedfigure: I just saw your post a bit earlier on in this thread/blog comment section about the Morrowind menu screen driving you crazy every time you have to open it - now, I've only played the game on the PC but I can only imagine from my experience with it how frustrating it must be on console! As for Oblivion looking better, well as a console interface yeah it was plenty easy enough to use - but you'd never find anything you want once you've put 100+ hours into a character. So many keys... :( Also I heard complaints from the PC crowd on its usefulness.
 
Also, after all this blogging about thoughts on Skyrim, you might not even be getting it!?! I hope you just mean on PC - I can't imagine you not getting it at all now! Oh, and do you think I should play more Morrowind? I never really got very far; I do like it, the slow walking speed is a drag but the environments seem to have real character and I like the way every city is really distinct. But yeah, I only really got to play it (when I was at work haha - my old job was awesome) a bit, I can't recall what percentage of the way into it I was as I have no point of reference. As a side note I have the GOTY edition so have both expansions, but they seem late game content so it's not really an option right now. Any thoughts? Thanksss
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Example1013

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@Chavtheworld: The keys thing is kind of annoying when looking for sigil stones and other items at the bottom of that list, but ultimately it's not too bad. 
 
The problem I have right now is that with all the time I've spent in the game, and all the items I've collected, the game shudders whenever I open up the chests in my house that I keep my gear in. I've split it all into two (starting on three) chests, with weapons in one chest, and armor, staves, and potions in another, but the game still stutters for like a second whenever I try to open one, and I even worry about freezing it when I open a chest while it's still autosaving. 
 
The game just isn't really built for the PS3, and while it works fine most of the time, this late in the game it really is starting to show some difficulty dealing with the resources available to it. 
 
I haven't even started Morrowind yet, because I've been largely too busy with schoolwork, but I'll get there eventually. I've downloaded and extracted the major unofficial bugfixes, and now I just need to get any other big performance patches, because my computer is a beast, and I want to take advantage of all that expensive machinery. 
 
@ahoodedfigure: I actually really like the idea of having artifacts be the most powerful weapons in the game. The real issue that cheapened Oblivion for me is the idea that one of the most powerful artifacts in the game--Goldbrand--is comparable to something you can find just by doing an Oblivion gate (which you can go through a lot). The gear that is unequivocally the most powerful should only be available at great cost and rarity, perhaps even uniqueness. But this is sort of excusable, because the whole Sigil Stone thing was a pretty big part of Oblivion, and so once it was in, it's not like they could remove it. 
 
I have confidence that Skyrim will be really good, because Oblivion was really good, and I've heard nothing but good about Morrowind, and I'm looking forward to the game.
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shiftymagician

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@Chavtheworld:  Find the boots of blinding speed and learn how to 100% dispel for a second or two.  Then speed will no longer be an issue hehehe.  That will give you a quest worth doing.
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Bollard

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@example1013: Strange, I played on 360 and didn't really ever have a problem with stuttering when opening really full cabinets - and trust me, I certainly had some. I have kept literally every enchanted weapon I found in the game in one cupboard (along with all enchanted armour), and another cupboard right next to it is filled with one of each item from each material type (Iron, Glass up and up etc.) I do like my Bruma house ;) I do remember though the PS3 had issues when the launched it, maybe your problems are still a few unfixed problems. 
 
@ShiftyMagician: Orly? Sounds like a good idea... Any hints to where I should start looking? :D
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shiftymagician

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@Chavtheworld:  Look around North East of Gnaar Mok or North West of Caldera.  It is definitely somewhere between those two places.  A woman will be wearing them and you will have to do a fairly easy escort quest to get them.  Just do that and you will have the boots.
 
However, there is a 100% blind spell that will make you blind while you wear them, meaning that you will need a good percentage of dispel on you before wearing the boots to see whilst using them.  50% or so will be enough but work towards 100% to completely defend against the spell.  The duration of the dispel only needs to be for a second or two as it will nullify any negative constant effects in items if you equip them within the duration.  There are very few exceptions to this but you would only experience them if you really explore your quest options to the extreme.
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Bollard

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@ShiftyMagician: Awesome thanks, I'll get searching ;) I like the random NPCs you find out and about in Morrowind, that have their little quests with odd quirks (like the fact you mentioned the boots make you blind). There's that dude that's frozen in place and has no clothes if I remember right? Weird things like that are awesome and add character to the world. Hope to see some in Skyrim
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shiftymagician

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@Chavtheworld:  Same dude.  It is a given at least that a good chunk of unique items from previous games will come back for this game.  I hope the blinding boots will be one of them.  Would be funny to be able to wear them, look at an attacking dragon only to say "fuck that" and run like the flash.
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ahoodedfigure

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@example1013:  Well, I could tell you plenty, plenty of bad about Morrowind, but from what I've read of Oblivion's engine, apart from some nice tweaks, I think the chance to miss, chance to fail thing feels better to me. Makes you feel better when you get good at something, although that can be pretty painful when you're missing all the time at the start for a less-than-optimal combat character like mine was.  Now I can jump all over the place and nuke pretty much everything in a few hits (werewolves were freaking tough, though).
 
I hope they readjust for artifacts in Skyrim. I'm not fond of everything conforming to me.  Maybe I should upgrade a bit and see how I like Gothic II instead.
 
@Chavtheworld: This blog pretty much exists on the notion that I can talk about stuff I'm interested in, no matter if I have the chance to play it or not, since I enjoy the idea of games and their design. So yeah, it's possible I may never play Skyrim, although it's got me seriously thinking about having a little extra income to justify the purchase.  
 
The menu can be a bit like having a house that's too big. Even when I don't have a lot of items it can feel that way, but I can carry more potions than a shop and it gets to be a bit ridiculous after a while. I guess I wouldn't mind if they even limited players to X scrolls, X potions, all based on scroll cases and alchemical packs or whatever, which you might be able to upgrade... there I go, making up stuff again.   
 
(How would you compare the individuality of characters in Morrowind to Oblivion? The fact that you don't have to have someone do all the spoken dialog in Morrowind makes for some better flexibility for the writers (and readers), I think.)
 
I've seen enough of the mods for Morrowind now that I don't think I'd be afraid of buying a GOTY for the PC. The modding community seems to have really gone to town on the amount of bug fixes and extra content they've made.  

As for Bloodmoon and Tribunal, I beat Tribunal first, then Bloodmoon, then the main game. They ARE late-game focused, so if you're just starting out you'll likely be a grease spot. But I made a serious dent in both of them before working on the main quest, so it all depends on your build of character and how you handle the obstacles there. Even the goblins are tough for low-level players in Tribunal, and I had real trouble with some of the later creatures in Bloodmoon without using some cheesy tactics. I used Bloodmoon as a vacation from the dreary Vvardinfel scenery, and Tribunal if I wanted some more detailed city graphics, then if I wanted to do something while I was there I'd try it out. If it was too hard, I let it sit until I was more able to tackle stuff.
 
@ShiftyMagician: Ha! I never thought of that for the boots. I guess I considered them worthless anyway since I usually play a lizard.
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Bollard

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@ahoodedfigure: I actually really liked the characters in Oblivion. I thought the voice acting was fantastic (even if people do complain there was only about 5 voice actors) but I really enjoyed the NPCs. This dude in particular is really an awesome character. Plus, if you ever play Oblivion I seriously recommend Shivering Isles, Sheogorath is a fantastic character. 
 
That reminds me, I never did get any mods for Morrowind... Care to share a few of your must-haves? :)
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ahoodedfigure

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@Chavtheworld:  I have the XBox version, so I don't know the first thing about any of the mods other than that they exist :)
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Bollard

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@ahoodedfigure: Oh yeah! I forgot haha ;)
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I never had any big problems with oblivion.  Lots of people talk about bugs and stuff having to do with quests, but for me, it is all technical.  Please let Skyrim have a good framerate and please, let the load times be gone or a lot shorter.  That is the thing that always made me hesitate a little when i was about to put the disc in.

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ahoodedfigure

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@TheHBK:  Morrowind's load times when I first started up or when I died were pretty painful. Probably took longer than any Valkyrie lift-off or other game death penalty. They could definitely learn how to optimize a bit. Not sure if there's an easy way to do it, though, with all the content they try to stuff into their games.
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Cirdain

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  @Vaile said:

" I think numbers 5 and 7 are totally awesome ideas, for what it's worth. "


 I like those numbers as well. But I heard 7 ate 9.
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butano

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The ability to be able to play and be enjoyable in the 3rd-person view. I love TES, but man, it seems impossible to do any sort of fighting without going into 1st-person view. I just wanna be able to see my bitchin armor while I kill mudcrabs yo!