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astrotriforce

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Why doesn't God just destroy Satan? (Answer included)

So I was talking to one of my friends and we had an interesting discussion on Satan and God. I'll go ahead and share the whole thing. 
 
"Hey, I read somewhere that Lucifer being an angel was made out of fire, and all of the angels loved God and adored him, and when God made man, he made him out of clay, and commanded that the angels bow down to them and love them unconditionally as well, but Lucifer loved God so much that he couldn't bow down to anyone else, and he felt that man was inferior to him being made out of clay, so God cast him out of Heaven, away from his love, I'm sure there's more to it but what do you think?"

 
Me: "That's more of an embellishment on what the Biblical text actually states. The Bible does say that the Father made us out of "the earth" (which could be translated as "clay" I suppose) and it does say that Lucifer was essentially jealous OF GOD. It could therefore be interpreted by extension that he was also jealous of man because of man's privelaged position above the angels and all of God's creatures. Also, Lucifer didn't disobey God out of love. No matter how someone wants to twist it. And Lucifer wasn't made of fire, but the Bible states that he was the most beautiful of the angels, was a musical being and was covered in jewels that shone throughout the Heavens."
 
"What about him fighting God? He would have to know he wouldn't win."
 
Me: "Well, that's kind of like saying that Adolf Hitlar would have to know that he couldn't conquer the entire world. But he sure thought he could and was damn well confident enough that he nearly succeeded. Likewise, it says that a third of the angels were deceived by and followed Lucifer. Thus they too were also cast out of Heaven along with Lucifer for their treachery. Therefore Satan was able to convince a third of God's angels that HE was right and God was wrong. Could be he defeat God? No. But he damn well tried. And he knew that angels aren't God, and therefore could be deceived. And they were"
 
"Surely Satan must listen to people talk, he would have to ponder the thought that he isn't gonna win."

 
Me:  "At this point it isn't so much about Satan winning, it's about how much he can corrupt before his time is up. God couldn't be defeated but those that love God can be lead astray from God due to Satan's deception and lies which he uses to sow "seeds of doubt and discord". 
 
"Well no I mean like he can't be stupid enough not to listen in to me or you talk verbally, or see what we're typing."
  
Me: "Satan is a (fallen)angel. Therefore SATAN IS NOT omnipresent or omniscient like God is. That means that Satan cannot be in more than one place at any one time and Satan's knowledge IS limited. He can't read minds. Satan is immortal but God ultimately has power over him. So Satan is immortal but he's no god. Satan cannot create another being and give it life. In fact Satan is the opposite. While God commands us to build up others and not tear them down (love your neighbor as you love yourself), Satan is the polar opposite. He comes to 'steal, kill and destroy" and roams over the Earth "seeking whom he may devour." Satan is not ultimately concerned about WHAT he pollutes your mind with, it's what knowledge he can keep out of your mind (that of God) by keeping you distracted or deceived into believing otherwise the truth and knowledge of God that is his goal. And he does a damn good job of it. "Enter ye the narrow gate: for wide is the path, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction." 
 
"Why wouldn't God just like, jail him so to speak to cause him from doing all this?"
 
Me: "Because Satan's "life" and the consequences of his choices are still being "played out" as our's are. It is because of the sin that Satan wrought that true love is created. Because true love is a choice and comes from free will. Forced love is not love at all, therefore we have to choose between God's path and the "path that leads to destruction". You can't have light without darkness and you can't have good without evil. It's as simple as that."
 
Now for the best song about Satan from my favorite Christian band. 
Let's all sing together now, "My hands have taught me terrible things/HIS HANDS HAVE SET ME FREE!"
 
 
 

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LonnaBear

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Edited By LonnaBear

Great answer Josh! Wow! You should be a teacher! Love that video, one of the best I've ever seen. Post it on FB. 

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HitmanAgent47

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@JeffGoldblum: Well, I think islam fits that description better. Christians always has free will.
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piggles

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I am genuinely saddened by the fact that, in 20-fucking-10, people still believe in monsters and magical spacemen. 
 
Seriously. It's some depressing shit.

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SofaKing

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Christians always has free will. It's true.

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SethPhotopoulos

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Edited By SethPhotopoulos

Because God would be bored. 
 
Also I think Satan was more amoral but I guess that depends on adaptations and interpretations and me not reading the bible but wikipedia entries.

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teh_pwnzorer

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deactivated-5fb7c57ae2335

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@Akeldama said:
"
 Cool story bro
 Cool story bro
"
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deactivated-608a5477560df

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Just become a Norseman, and follow Odin, Ragnarok is upon us!

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Pinworm45

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@astrotriforce said:
" So I was talking to one of my friends and we had an interesting discussion on Satan and God.
There's no such thing. Sorry.
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lazyturtle

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@onarum said:
" because neither one of the two exists maybe? "
Bingo.
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zeforgotten

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@CandiBunni said:
" @luce said:
" "Bible states that Lucifer was the most beautiful of the angels, was a musical being and was covered in jewels that shone throughout the Heavens."   So Lucifer was a fruitcake "
I lawled. "
So much that you had to resurrect a thread that was perfectly fine with being dead?  
Greaaat, more users like you please. 
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lilburtonboy7489

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    Because he's unstoppable
    Because he's unstoppable
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GunslingerPanda

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Edited By GunslingerPanda

 Satan is not ultimately concerned about WHAT he pollutes your mind with, it's what knowledge he can keep out of your mind (that of God) by keeping you distracted or deceived into believing otherwise the truth and knowledge of God that is his goal. 


   lawlwhut? People fall for this?
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Getz

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Because in a make-believe story, logic has no impetus. Bad guys are not strong enough to take down the good guys, but the good guys need them around or the story becomes flat and boring. Plus, there needs to be a villain to absolve God of all the evil that exists. A scape-goat, if you will. 

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Daveyo520

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Because they both don't exist.

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Vinny_Says

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God is a giant pussy and Satan would wreck his shit.

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deactivated-57beb9d651361

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As much as I don't particularly like Christianity, the mythology surrounding it is fascinating. There is a reason the Bible is the best selling book of all time. It's really well written. 
 
There are some great articles explaining exactly why 'Lucifer' is not Satan. Look them up.
  
King of Babylon's claim: 
 
"I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; and I will sit upon the mount of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High" 

King of Babylon's fate: 
 
“Sheol from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming,” the prophet proclaimed to the once-powerful king. And when the ruler finally descends into his eternal grave, captives of that hidden realm will taunt him by saying, “Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms?” 
 
Silly King of Babylon.

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OrwellHuxZam

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@ZeForgotten: I don't think posting a "lawl" constitutes a "resurrection".  No need to be so critical of a two word statement.
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Jayzilla

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Edited By Jayzilla

At the end of all things: "Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Also, to those saying that Christianity is about not having free will, you are wrong. The "Christians" that aim to use Christianity so that you follow blindly are using that. The Bible itself professes that, "whosoever chooses to believe that Jesus Christ is Lord will have everlasting life."  
 
Ghandi said it best,  "   I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." 
 
People fail, every single one. Don't blame Christ for the failings of His followers. 
 
Also, if you haven't read the Bible just to read it. You should. There is a reason it is the number one selling book of all time. It's a good read.

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SeriouslyNow

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Can people stop saying the Bible is the number one selling book of all time?  It's a lie.
 
The Bible, like the Qu'ran, like pamphlets for dog grooming is given away free of charge.  It's not a high selling book at all.
 
It's also not just one book, but hundreds or thousands, all variant and not all of them even agreeing on some very basic information.

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jorbear

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God doesn't destroy Satan because then there would be nothing to tempt us. If there is nothing to tempt us, then we would never sin, and we would thus lose our agency. God's greatest gift was our agency, and he knows that it is our agency that will help us grow. 
Sorry duders, but I go to church every Sunday for a reason.

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Lifestrike

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satan has super armor

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Dylabaloo

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Edited By Dylabaloo

So "Hell" is a little thing set up to keep society in line, if you did something bad you would be eternally punished who wants that while the "Church" make people pay for acceptence to "Heaven" through indulgences which cost a lot of money. If you were poor you didn't go to Heaven, seems fair right? This is the moral grounds the Church was founded on, they seem like trustworthy and englightened men.

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kishan6

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i thought it was interesting...

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Pinworm45

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@SeriouslyNow said:
" Can people stop saying the Bible is the number one selling book of all time?  It's a lie.  The Bible, like the Qu'ran, like pamphlets for dog grooming is given away free of charge.  It's not a high selling book at all.  It's also not just one book, but hundreds or thousands, all variant and not all of them even agreeing on some very basic information. "
Even if it was, who cares? Snookie of Jersey Shore fame released a book that's more about nothing than Seinfeld ever was (how to guides on partying), and it's a Number 1 best seller.
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doublezeroduck

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@buzz_killington said:

" (Reading the first 2-3 responses) What the fuck happened to intelligent discussion and diverse viewpoints on GB forums? THIS IS NOT FUCKING 4CHAN, GET YOUR "COOL STORY BRO" BULLSHIT OUT OF HERE. "

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MrKlorox

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@doublezeroduck said:
" @buzz_killington said:

" (Reading the first 2-3 responses) What the fuck happened to intelligent discussion and diverse viewpoints on GB forums? THIS IS NOT FUCKING 4CHAN, GET YOUR "COOL STORY BRO" BULLSHIT OUT OF HERE. "

"
I wish flagging these posts actually did something other than reducing my flag tickets.
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Rattle618

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Cause god is pussy.

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doublezeroduck

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@MrKlorox said:
" @doublezeroduck said:
" @buzz_killington said:

" (Reading the first 2-3 responses) What the fuck happened to intelligent discussion and diverse viewpoints on GB forums? THIS IS NOT FUCKING 4CHAN, GET YOUR "COOL STORY BRO" BULLSHIT OUT OF HERE. "

"
I wish flagging these posts actually did something other than reducing my flag tickets. "
 
At least it wasn't "COOL STORY BRO"  
 
He said he wanted that out of here.  
 
I figured I'd change it up a little.  
 
You're both welcome
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jNerd

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BraveToaster

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The same reason why God sits idle while toddlers get gang raped in Africa.

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BigLemon

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@astrotriforce: I read your whole post, and I want to thank you for your well-thought out arguments and your respectful rhetoric.  
 
I've often used this argument when people ask me, "Why do bad things happen to good people?" It is not enough to have good in the world. There must be evil to balance goodness. Nature works in opposing forces. You cannot have lightness without darkness, or positives without negatives. Without evil, there would be no reference point for good. You could not conceptualize goodness without a benchmark for what is "not goodness." 
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Alphiehyr

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@astrotriforce said:

" So I was talking to one of my friends and we had an interesting discussion on Satan and God. I'll go ahead and share the whole thing. 
 
"Hey, I read somewhere that Lucifer being an angel was made out of fire, and all of the angels loved God and adored him, and when God made man, he made him out of clay, and commanded that the angels bow down to them and love them unconditionally as well, but Lucifer loved God so much that he couldn't bow down to anyone else, and he felt that man was inferior to him being made out of clay, so God cast him out of Heaven, away from his love, I'm sure there's more to it but what do you think?"

 
Me: "That's more of an embellishment on what the Biblical text actually states. The Bible does say that the Father made us out of "the earth" (which could be translated as "clay" I suppose) and it does say that Lucifer was essentially jealous OF GOD. It could therefore be interpreted by extension that he was also jealous of man because of man's privelaged position above the angels and all of God's creatures. Also, Lucifer didn't disobey God out of love. No matter how someone wants to twist it. And Lucifer wasn't made of fire, but the Bible states that he was the most beautiful of the angels, was a musical being and was covered in jewels that shone throughout the Heavens."
 
"What about him fighting God? He would have to know he wouldn't win."
 
Me: "Well, that's kind of like saying that Adolf Hitlar would have to know that he couldn't conquer the entire world. But he sure thought he could and was damn well confident enough that he nearly succeeded. Likewise, it says that a third of the angels were deceived by and followed Lucifer. Thus they too were also cast out of Heaven along with Lucifer for their treachery. Therefore Satan was able to convince a third of God's angels that HE was right and God was wrong. Could be he defeat God? No. But he damn well tried. And he knew that angels aren't God, and therefore could be deceived. And they were"
 
"Surely Satan must listen to people talk, he would have to ponder the thought that he isn't gonna win."

 
Me:  "At this point it isn't so much about Satan winning, it's about how much he can corrupt before his time is up. God couldn't be defeated but those that love God can be lead astray from God due to Satan's deception and lies which he uses to sow "seeds of doubt and discord". 
 
"Well no I mean like he can't be stupid enough not to listen in to me or you talk verbally, or see what we're typing."
  
Me: "Satan is a (fallen)angel. Therefore SATAN IS NOT omnipresent or omniscient like God is. That means that Satan cannot be in more than one place at any one time and Satan's knowledge IS limited. He can't read minds. Satan is immortal but God ultimately has power over him. So Satan is immortal but he's no god. Satan cannot create another being and give it life. In fact Satan is the opposite. While God commands us to build up others and not tear them down (love your neighbor as you love yourself), Satan is the polar opposite. He comes to 'steal, kill and destroy" and roams over the Earth "seeking whom he may devour." Satan is not ultimately concerned about WHAT he pollutes your mind with, it's what knowledge he can keep out of your mind (that of God) by keeping you distracted or deceived into believing otherwise the truth and knowledge of God that is his goal. And he does a damn good job of it. "Enter ye the narrow gate: for wide is the path, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction." 
 
"Why wouldn't God just like, jail him so to speak to cause him from doing all this?"
 
Me: "Because Satan's "life" and the consequences of his choices are still being "played out" as our's are. It is because of the sin that Satan wrought that true love is created. Because true love is a choice and comes from free will. Forced love is not love at all, therefore we have to choose between God's path and the "path that leads to destruction". You can't have light without darkness and you can't have good without evil. It's as simple as that."
 
Now for the best song about Satan from my favorite Christian band. 
Let's all sing together now, "My hands have taught me terrible things/HIS HANDS HAVE SET ME FREE!"
 
 
 

"
Couldn't be fucked reading all that block of shit. Bottomline, they both don't exist.
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MysteriousBob

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God just told me he can't destroy Satan because Satan doesn't exist. Duh. 
 
Trying to find logic in religion is like trying to analyse the plausibility in a nursery rhyme. I'm no 'ALL RELIGION IS EVIL' guy, but thats not going to stop me from laughing at the OP trying to form a coherent arguement within the worlds of unrealisitic fiction.

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laserbolts

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@Cwaff said:
" @phrosnite said:
" Did anyone actually read it? I didn't... "
I did. "
I feel bad for you because I did too.
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angelfan91

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@TwoLines said:
"What they said.
Also, he meant Why Doesn't God just destroy Miroslav Satan- The NHL player. Why doesn't he? "

Because playing for the Sabres was punishment enough. :)
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RsistncE

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Since when was religion supposed to make any sense? The point is it's all bullshit. This is kinda similar to why no one asks the "whys" when it comes to fairy tales. Or Santa Clause for that matter.

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ArcLyte

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are children small, or just far away? why are pants different than shirts?

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AlexW00d

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@HitmanAgent47 said:

"

 Darwin was an illuminati puppet raised to give us a false interpretation by the church of satan.

Wow... Just wow.
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Red12b

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Post by Red12b (6,008 posts) See mini bio Level 18 / 375 ACH / 3875 P
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If you meet me, have some courtesy, have some sympathy, and some taste, use all your well-learned politeness, or I'll lay your soul to waste.    
   
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audiosnag

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@KingWilly said:
" I don't know if you know, OP, but religion and politics are usually not a good source of quality discussion on message boards. The primary reason for that is because most people go to sites like GiantBomb to talk/read about video games, not God (Joe Pesci) and (mr) Satan. "
This.
The intertoobs is the WORST place to discuss religion, I've never seen a thread that didn't devolve into craziness.
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AndyPhifer

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DERP 
 
EDIT: I wrote a really long answer, then realized it was was pointless as saying derp. So, DERP.

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damodar

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HitmanAgent47 is either an absurdly committed troll or he should literally be committed. Genuinely scary.

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Meowshi

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The idea that some topics are "off-limits" is extremely offensive.  Just because some children can't handle this threads maturely doesn't mean that we can't have them.   
 
And people who bitch about how this is a "video game forum" when we are clearly in the off-topic section are morons.  

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beej

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@BigLemon said:

" @astrotriforce: I read your whole post, and I want to thank you for your well-thought out arguments and your respectful rhetoric.   I've often used this argument when people ask me, "Why do bad things happen to good people?" It is not enough to have good in the world. There must be evil to balance goodness. Nature works in opposing forces. You cannot have lightness without darkness, or positives without negatives. Without evil, there would be no reference point for good. You could not conceptualize goodness without a benchmark for what is "not goodness."  "

Wait wait wait wait. If god can establish universal constants without any reference to the world  (like the claim that our morality comes from god) then why is it that good can't be universally defined as well? At the very least a positive definition is possible, you're trying to say that good is only intelligible in light of evil, but that seems like a purely negative definition of good. 
More importantly, when choosing between saving people from needless suffering and death and preserving a definition of a word that would be unnecessary anyways god chose the second option? Really? You'd tell a bunch of tsunami victims that it's ok that they died since they provided coherency for a definition? Wow God is kind of a dick. 
Even more importantly, if God is absolved from combating evil by this logic then am I absolved from my burden as well? 
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McGhee

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Why doesn't God just destroy Satan?

 For the same reason that Santa Clause doesn't destroy the Grinch.
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audiosnag

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@dudeglove: 
Thank you for that. Holy crap is that hilarious. That made this train wreck of a thread worth it.
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beej

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@audiosnag: You've made me realize the truth, this thread is now about posting pictures of cats.
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