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majormitch

Playing FF7 Rebirth is giving me the Bad Thought of replaying other FF games.

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Will the Real Zelda Please Stand Up?

When Darksiders came out in January 2010, the general consensus was that it was the gritty, mature Zelda game everyone had been wanting Nintendo to make for years. Nintendo themselves was never going to abide, so it was left to someone else (like Vigil Games) to carry the torch. Darksiders II comes out next week, and while I’m sure there will be some changes from the first game, I’d be willing to bet that people will still talk about it referentially in regards to The Legend of Zelda. The Darksiders series is carving out its own space alongside one of gaming’s most revered franchises, and is finding its own fan base defined by those who want Zelda games not called Zelda.

It takes more than boomerangs to make a Zelda game.
It takes more than boomerangs to make a Zelda game.

Perhaps I’m in the minority, but I never bought the Darksiders-Zelda comparison. Yes, you got a boomerang, a hookshot and a horse. Yes, there were dungeons where you solved puzzles and fought bosses. Yes, the game played a jingle when you solved a puzzle. And yes, there were what amounted to heart pieces. But in many ways those are surface level comparisons. It’s like saying any 2D game where you run and jump is like Super Mario Bros., or that any game where you shoot a gun from the first person perspective is like Doom. It may be true to some extent, but it also kind of misses the point. You can run down the checklist and tick all the boxes, but Darksiders never really felt like Zelda to me when I played it. The dungeons and puzzles never felt as devious or as intricate, and the overworld never felt as grand or as majestic. There was a certain soul or spirit missing to everything the game did, something that made it feel like a rudimentary collection of mechanics that are often associated with The Legend of Zelda, but have long since become fairly standard in the bigger picture of video game design. Don’t get me wrong; I liked Darksiders just fine for what it was. I simply didn’t see grounds to draw such a strong, direct comparison to Zelda.

Then something funny happened. Almost two years after Darksiders came out the first full blown console Zelda title since 2006 landed on the Wii, and in many ways was a wake up call. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword kind of felt like, well, Darksiders. It had the hookshot and the heart pieces, and played the fancy jingle. What’s more, and what really sparked the comparison, is that Skyward Sword felt like the same straight shooting implementation of those mechanics that Darksiders was. That same defining Zelda spirit that Darksiders missed was also conspicuously absent from Skyward Sword. It was among the least Zelda of all the Zeldas, and while it was a fine game in its own way it left me questioning what it really meant to be a Zelda game.

Little game, big adventure.
Little game, big adventure.

In my mind The Legend of Zelda is not defined by boomerangs and heart pieces and jingles. It’s defined by something less tangible, a vision at once more abstract and more grand. The first Zelda game I ever played was The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, and my strongest memory of that game is how big it felt; how epic the adventure was, how exciting it felt to be a young, everyday boy going on this enormous quest to save the princess and the kingdom. As cliche as that idea has always been, A Link to the Past imparted a certain gravitas to the journey that made it feel like something more. This is all the more poignant because A Link to the Past wasn’t even that long of a game; certainly not as long as Skyward Sword. And yet it felt bigger somehow. The scope and variety of the world, the freeform way in which you could navigate its intricacies, the way you were invited and sometimes forced to explore and find your own way, the ability to tackle some dungeons in any order you chose. You were thrust into a wild and wondrous world full of seemingly endless possibilities, left to your own wit and resourcefulness to conquer its challenges. This was an adventure in the purest sense of the word, and in some ways video games have never done it better.

That sense of adventure has always been Zelda’s defining trait to me. A Link to the Past had it. Ocarina of Time had it. The Wind Waker had it. I recently played Link’s Awakening for the first time, and almost 20 years after its initial release it still has it. I have yet to play the original The Legend of Zelda, but from talking to those who have, it might have it more than any of them. That very sense of adventure is exactly what I felt both Darksiders and Skyward Sword lacked. There was an adventure of sorts happening on the screen in those games, but I never truly felt a part of it. I never felt like I was in the thick of things in quite the same way, getting my hands dirty trying to survive and save the world at the same time. They were a more passive, guided tour of gameplay mechanics that tend to be associated with Zelda games, rather than exploring what it means to be a Zelda game at heart. Again, that’s not altogether a bad thing. It’s just different.

The adventure of a lifetime awaits in Dark Souls.
The adventure of a lifetime awaits in Dark Souls.

Then, in an irony of ironies, mere weeks before Skyward Sword hit shelves another game was released that had seemingly nothing to do with The Legend of Zelda. From Software’s Dark Souls took the world by storm, but there was no immediate comparison to Zelda. After all, Dark Souls had no boomerang, no hookshot, no horse, no jingle and no heart pieces. You didn’t go from one dungeon to the next collecting items that you used to solve puzzles and beat bosses, all for the sake of collecting some odd number of ancient trinkets that will save the world. And yet, Dark Souls still managed to feel like a mature, modern day incarnation of the Zelda spirit. This was the big, epic journey that you could easily lose yourself to. This was the intricate and fantastical world that contained countless mysteries and surprises. This was the quest that demanded you be on your toes every step of the way, making use of every resource available. That same feeling I got when I first played A Link to the Past so many years ago was very much present and accounted for in Dark Souls. It represented the notion of a grand adventure as well as any game could hope to do, and I think it’s the best Zelda game to come out in quite some time.

There was a time when The Legend of Zelda name commanded respect as one of the leading forces in gaming, and as one of the leading adventures of our medium. I’m not convinced that’s the case anymore. Zelda has been going through an identity crisis of sorts, and there’s no shortage of pretenders out there. Darksiders and Skyward Sword may lay claim to the Zelda name, but the real Zelda has finally stood up. It’s called Dark Souls.

66 Comments

66 Comments

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Brenderous

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Edited By Brenderous

Great post.

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majormitch

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Edited By majormitch

@DelroyLindo said:

Dark Souls consistently reminded me of the way I felt playing Ocarina of Time for the first time many many years ago. I agree with what you said.

I also think the reviews to Dark Souls were a detriment. Many people (myself included) were likely put off by the reported difficulty. The game is challenging, sure, but it is no where near as difficult as it is made out to be, not even slightly.

Thanks! I also get a little annoyed by the way Dark Souls tends to misrepresented by its difficulty. Sure, it's challenging, but no where near as hard as reviews claim (I read some that said it was the hardest game this entire generation, which is completely ridiculous. Those reviewers must not play hard games). To be fair though, it's not just reviewers; the game's own tagline is "Prepare to die" after all.

@Slag said:

You know if the question has become whether Dark Souls is more like oldschool Zelda or oldschool Metroid/Castlevania, the real answer is that Dark Souls is awesome.

I really need to get a copy of that game.

It is interesting that that's more or less become the topic at this point. I tend to go with the way I feel playing the game rather than the mechanics or tropes, and in that sense it feels more like Zelda to me (I say this as someone who really loves all these series, and perhaps Metroid most of all). Either way you are correct in that you need to get Dark Souls, It's pretty awesome :P

@King9999 said:

Interesting that you would make a comparison between Dark Souls and Zelda. Most people view Dark Souls as what a 3D Castlevania should have been.

I don't think I agree with your argument completely, though. There are things that make Zelda what it is. The sense of adventure is a big part of it, but exploring dungeons and solving puzzles define Zelda as well. Dark Souls has neither of these. By the way, you should definitely play the original Zelda. There are numerous ways to do it, but I recommend playing the Zelda Classic version (google it). In addition to the original quests, you have access to user-created quests.

Not to beat a dead horse, but that was kind of the point, that even without those tropes (the dungeons and items and puzzles) Dark Souls still felt like the embodiment of the Zelda spirit to me. But that goes back to what it means to be a Zelda game, which can vary from person to person. I don't define Zelda much by the dungeons and puzzles, but I also think it's perfectly valid to do so. In which case the Dark Souls-Zelda comparison doesn't hold up very well.

I actually have a copy of the GBA "Classic NES Series" version of Zelda sitting on my shelf (staring at it right now!). Just need to find time to play it, but it's going to happen! I swear it! :P

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Oldirtybearon

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Edited By Oldirtybearon

I got waaaay more old school Castlevania vibes from Dark Souls than Zelda. There is adventure to be had, sure, but "diseased half-rotten monsters around every corner that will kill you in terrible, unfair ways" belongs in the Castlevania end of that particular venn diagram. I'm just not seeing this "intangible" comparison between Zelda and Dark Souls.

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TheHT

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Edited By TheHT

Darksiders is the adolescent Zelda game you always wanted, when you said wanted a mature Zelda game.

Dark Souls is the mature Zelda game you never even thought of, and had your mind blown when someone called it a mature Zelda game.

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DoctorWelch

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You started listening to the 8-4 Play podcast, didn't you? Can't sneak it by me ;)

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majormitch

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Edited By majormitch

@DoctorWelch said:

You started listening to the 8-4 Play podcast, didn't you? Can't sneak it by me ;)

Haha, I have listened to some of their podcasts, and I very well could have heard that comparison there. I freely admit that I had heard the comparison made elsewhere well before I wrote any of this, and 8-4 certainly could have been a source :P

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Little_Socrates

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Edited By Little_Socrates

I'd always argue that Dark Souls carries on the tradition of 2D Zelda while Darksiders carries on the tradition of 3D Zelda. I guess that's because I never felt that 3D Zelda was that epic adventure we're describing; Ocarina of Time is pretty damned small, pretty barren, and excessively linear/hand-holding. Majora's Mask and Wind Waker do a better job of letting you roam on your own (especially with the much-maligned Triforce collection sequence in WW), but 2D Zelda is a much deeper, more difficult, and more imposing experience than 3D Zelda or Darksiders. I'd be remiss not to mention how amazing the mythos in MM and WW are, as they really lend to that epic sensation. Majora's Mask is just terrifying, and Wind Waker sets such a proper legendary course from the start that it gives me chills to think about.

It's worth noting that I'm probably one of the least enthusiastic OoT players out there, and I drastically prefer the original Legend of Zelda to the game. I also preferred Oracle of Ages/Seasons at the time I played OoT.

...there's a lot more to write on this subject, of course. But I feel like I read a blog about this just as the year was starting, and I can't place who wrote it. It was definitely in the community spotlight, though.

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Chummy8

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Edited By Chummy8

I disagree with you.

Darksiders is more like a Soul Reaver game to me than a legend of Zelda game. And Dark Souls is a modern 3d castlevania game.

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CheapPoison

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Edited By CheapPoison

To me , darksiders have taken over the value tha zelda games stood for. And in a way zelda games aren't bad just not amazing anymore.

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frontman12

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Edited By frontman12

IMHO, Darksiders Zelda Dark Souls, Metroidvania Zelda Castlevania. Demon-vania Metroid-zelda, way more than Darksiders II original Legend of Zelda. Dark Souls dungeon item-gate, water-gate temple shoe polish turkey sandwich.

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majormitch

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Edited By majormitch

@frontman12 said:

IMHO, Darksiders Zelda Dark Souls, Metroidvania Zelda Castlevania. Demon-vania Metroid-zelda, way more than Darksiders II original Legend of Zelda. Dark Souls dungeon item-gate, water-gate temple shoe polish turkey sandwich.

Mmmm, turkey sandwich...

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deactivated-5f9398c1300c7

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This article points out the primary problem on our consensus from gaming criticism and journalism. We take the surface of games as an entire body and use it as a core for our judgements, and this totally fucks up franchises as they usually take the wrong turn after hearkening such renowned crowds. Is Diablo all about killing monsters, leveling up, and loot? Diablo3 sure answered that question with a confident "yes", but Diablo1 and 2 would look at their cousin and immediately say "no". It was the brooding atmosphere and psychological numbness that we got from the gore-trailed hallways and the dour notes stringed by Diablo1/2's musical score. If it were to always be about loot and progression, there would be no soul and it seems that my once favored franchise, Zelda, has truly lost that after my leaving from it.

Indie games are our only hope it seems.

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Hailinel

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Edited By Hailinel

I've always felt that while Zelda has its basic tropes and tenants, the series has always evolved in ways that, while basic mechanics may be the same, the experience isn't. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. I feel that Skyward Sword is just as much a Zelda game as Ocarina of Time or Link to the Past. It just does things that are out of the ordinary for what the series represents. I haven't played Dark Souls, so I can't say whether or not I agree with your assessment, but I can say that as much as Darksiders borrows from Zelda, it's the look and feel of Darksiders, that so-called "Dark Zelda", that I find so off-putting and hokey.

If I want Dark Zelda, there are plenty of options to choose from, with Majora's Mask siting at the top.

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cooljammer00

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Edited By cooljammer00

I always found Darksiders to be like Zelda but more intolerable. Why not set a game in a place where there aren't any NPCs or personality cause everyone is dead?

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majormitch

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Edited By majormitch

@Little_Socrates said:

I'd always argue that Dark Souls carries on the tradition of 2D Zelda while Darksiders carries on the tradition of 3D Zelda. I guess that's because I never felt that 3D Zelda was that epic adventure we're describing; Ocarina of Time is pretty damned small, pretty barren, and excessively linear/hand-holding. Majora's Mask and Wind Waker do a better job of letting you roam on your own (especially with the much-maligned Triforce collection sequence in WW), but 2D Zelda is a much deeper, more difficult, and more imposing experience than 3D Zelda or Darksiders. I'd be remiss not to mention how amazing the mythos in MM and WW are, as they really lend to that epic sensation. Majora's Mask is just terrifying, and Wind Waker sets such a proper legendary course from the start that it gives me chills to think about.

I can get behind that distinction, and I agree that Zelda has gotten to be less of that adventure over time, even more once it switched to 3D (though I think Wind Waker doesn't get enough credit for being as epic as it is, but maybe that's just nostalgia speaking). Skyward Sword I think finally drilled that fact home for me.

@Tru3_Blu3 said:

This article points out the primary problem on our consensus from gaming criticism and journalism. We take the surface of games as an entire body and use it as a core for our judgements, and this totally fucks up franchises as they usually take the wrong turn after hearkening such renowned crowds. Is Diablo all about killing monsters, leveling up, and loot? Diablo3 sure answered that question with a confident "yes", but Diablo1 and 2 would look at their cousin and immediately say "no". It was the brooding atmosphere and psychological numbness that we got from the gore-trailed hallways and the dour notes stringed by Diablo1/2's musical score. If it were to always be about loot and progression, there would be no soul and it seems that my once favored franchise, Zelda, has truly lost that after my leaving from it.

Indie games are our only hope it seems.

It is a really weird thing that I've been noticing more and more over time, games often get described in a derivative way based on their surface level mechanics, but I think there's a lot more that goes into making almost every game what it is past basic gameplay tropes. Take your Diablo II example, that game often gets described as simply this compulsive loot hunting game, but there were a lot of other little touches such as the atmosphere and soundtrack that made it special to a lot of people. You can duplicate mechanics pretty easily, but it's a different proposition to duplicate how it feels to play a game, once you take all the details and intangibles into account. I think games are generally more diverse than we often give them credit for being, it's just easier to be overly reductive about it all (which I'm guilty of at times too).

And that might be a little dramatic about indie games, but I get what you're saying :P There have been a lot of great indie games recently, ones that have a unique identifiable soul in addition to playing great.

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MormonWarrior

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I love this. Very well-written blog. And I agree totally as well. Dark Souls captures the feel and essence of Zelda better than Zelda, Darksiders, or many other series have been able to for a long while. I'd love to see a take on the Souls experience from a Zelda point of view. I imagine that could be a really neat game.