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nightriff

BEAT PERSONA 2 INNOCENT SIN!

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RElapsed Fan – Resident Evil 2 and 3

Confused? Read my initial blog

I played Resident Evil: Director's Cut before these two games, you can read my thoughts here

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I thought it would be fun to approach these games in chronological order as I work my way through the main series franchise. As mentioned in the initial blog about this endeavor, I am a sucker for stupid timelines that exist in media so when I got the urge to finally play these games again, rather than go in release date order (which is almost chronological order to be honest) I opted for the very specific timeline of when things occur. This meant playing 2/3rds of RE3, then proceed to complete RE2 (not once but twice), then wrapping up RE3. I am aware that there are several games that also deal with the fall of Raccoon City, and maybe someday I will play those games to get a larger picture of what happened to the city over the course of September 1998, but for the moment I am just focusing on the main characters and entries to the franchise. This experience was very exciting and I enjoyed the process a ton, swapping between the games wasn’t as big of a deal as I would’ve thought and it led to swings in my enjoyment of the games themselves, both good and bad.

I didn’t really know what to expect with Resident Evil 3 as I load the game to start playing it. My perception of the game is that the community is kind of ho hum towards the game, not necessarily labelling it a pariah i.e. RE0, more labelling it is a downgrade following the wonderful game that is RE2. As I began the game I was expecting to experience a slog and to more or less fall in the middle of the road, not hating the game but not enjoying it much either. That was not the case in that I absolutely loved playing the game.

Nemesis was truly terrifying when he would show up.
Nemesis was truly terrifying when he would show up.

I found that they were able to mix the atmosphere of 1 (and what I eventually found 2 to be) but also adjusted the combat to make it more fast paced and exciting. This led to the game feeling less scary but as what I found with the game itself, they seemed to balance changes correctly. Yes the game felt less scary overall, but the Nemesis encounters were absolutely terrifying. Every time (especially early on) Nemesis would rear his ugly face, I physically tensed up in hoping to survive another day. Having not entirely adjusted to the controls and the dodge ability (again, another balance to the game) I found myself fleeing in terror at the majority of the encounters. This meant that the first time I went through a door, thinking I escaped the tentacles of my…. nemesis ONLY for his music to kick back in realizing that he can move through doors and chase you further than any enemy has at that point, absolutely terrifying.

Probably my biggest complaint about RE3 early on was I wasn’t really sure what the hell I was doing story wise. As the intro cutscene and numerous loading messages state, I’m escaping, but that more or less describes all the (early) RE games. Protagonist ends up in a shitty setting, B.O.W.s, need to escape, expose/destroy Umbrella in the process. It’s a pretty minor complaint as I also find most of these games so far keep the story bits to the back 1/3rd of the game. But by the time Jill had been injured and Carlos was being controlled, I had to move onto RE2.

Chief Irons... what a creep... kind wish he was more involved in the game.
Chief Irons... what a creep... kind wish he was more involved in the game.

If I could boil my thoughts and feelings about Resident Evil 2 into one sentence, it would be I really wished I played this game back in the day, when I first considered myself a fan of the series and was young and impressionable. Resident Evil 2 is a damn good game and still holds up very well. And it is necessary to beat the game twice, otherwise you are missing out on so much that is truly amazing and impressive about the game (and most importantly it actually finishes the game). What I immediately noticed first was the differences between 3 and 2. While I did really enjoy the larger amount of enemies and action going on in 3, the slowness and isolation that exists in 2 was fantastic. 2 took what is un-ironically great about 1 and built upon that and while the game isn’t as charming, it moved beyond the B movie vibe of the first and came into an actual survival horror setting. The VA was a lot better(worse?) than 1 excluding the gun shop owner guy, the story was very engaging and interesting with a larger cast of characters that you interact with, disturbing and terrifying enemy encounters, slow build and release of tension, all these build to a perfect combination of elements into an incredibly joyful experience.

Loved Leon in 4, didn't know much about Claire going in. Huge fan of both now.
Loved Leon in 4, didn't know much about Claire going in. Huge fan of both now.

I really can’t say enough positive things about this game, but to be critical or critics sake, and mode or option to play the game where it automatically splits you between Claire and Leon’s story. That way you see the immediate ramifications of what your characters actions on how the effect the surrounds. The idea of being able to fight Berkin first in Leon’s campaign, then bouncing to Claire and eventually fight him there, so on and so on. This wouldn’t be possible as you do the same exact puzzles for the most part and thus it wouldn’t make sense that both Claire and Leon have to find Virgin Hearts to find their respective puzzle pieces from the same exact spot. Regardless, I loved my time with the game and I could see RE2 becoming a game that every few years or so I pop back in to experience and enjoy.

Riding high off of RE2… I kind of didn’t want to return to RE3. I didn’t really expect my opinion to change on 3 over the course of playing 2 but it certainly did. Not that I now hated the game or even thought to want to finish the game, more that 3 is an experiment, a way for the developers to try new things or new ideas to play with. 2 is a purer experience of what they originally wanted to do in 1, 3 is a “OK, we perfected that, let’s experiment,” and because of that I am able to nitpick at the game. I really enjoy the idea of Nemesis, but the one other boss sucks and I didn’t find very interesting. I really like the fast pace action, but very little slowness or tension building takes away from the series in some very specific ways that I absolutely realized I missed after the RE2 playthrough. I really loved RE3 when I first started up until the break, from that point I don’t know how much of it is to blame on RE2 or enough time to figure out things that bug me about the game, but I think it is a fine game… I don’t know if I will ever play it again. That saddens me as there is some cool ideas and things going on in the game, but…. Yeah.

I still love you Jill, sorry my enthusiasm didn't last all the way through your escape.
I still love you Jill, sorry my enthusiasm didn't last all the way through your escape.
Shout out to Mr. X. The precursor to Nemesis, dude knows inconvenient times to break through walls
Shout out to Mr. X. The precursor to Nemesis, dude knows inconvenient times to break through walls

Kind of got all bummed at the end, overall I absolutely loved the process. One of my favorite things with the combination is that RE3 felt like the beginning of the incident with dozens/hundreds more zombies and enemies and by the time I get to RE2, everything has calmed down as it becomes a more atmospheric and empty. In some fun ways the games play off each other very well and you wouldn’t get that experience anyway other than splitting them between each other.

Some interesting tidbits I’ve picked up on now that I’ve played a handful of Resident Evil games:

  • First off, there is going to be a puzzle involving wood boxes and water, funny how I praised RE0 for such a fun, engaging, challenging puzzle (and it was), but other RE games also contain them.
  • Second, you WILL play as another character, sooner or later.
  • Third, expect all the games to end on a setting you were just in exploding, Capcom loves their countdown sequences and self-destruct systems.
  • Four, all hail the Rocket Launcher, except Nemesis, dude can take some rockets.

Now that I’ve gone through 4 games at this point, I’m still really enjoy it. To be honest I’m surprised how quickly I’m moving through them, I expected I would want a little downtime in-between them but I’ve beat them all with the month of May. The next game is Code Veronica X, which I will be playing on the PS3.I know very little about the game except that it’s both(?) Chris and Claire and it takes place on Antarctica. That is pretty much all I know and I might take a little break now (maybe try and beat Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes in time for MGS5) but I could easily see me this weekend starting up CVX. Until next time.

On to…or you can read my thoughts on CVX here

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30 Comments

30 Comments

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Quarters

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Yeah, the Raccoon City stuff is always fun. Good to see you're chugging along. Oh, Code Veronica...that game is very ambitious compared to everything else you've played so far, but MAN it does some weird stuff. Really curious to see your thoughts on it. Also, brace yourself; it is far and away longer than all of the other ones you've played so far. Outside of RE4 and RE6, it's the longest game in the series.

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nightriff

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@quarters: I don't remember RE4 being that long, but I also played it like 20 times and got it down to a science back in the day. The Raccoon City stuff is really interesting and reading up on it, sounds like RE3 really takes place after everything (RE2 more so), any games that cover the week prior really well?

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ArbitraryWater

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Nothing quite makes me accidentally cramp my legs in fear like that Nemesis theme. Even if 3 is one of the weaker installments of the series, it's still totally solid and fun. Just... not very difficult when you have like 30 extra freeze rounds at the end. Of all the "classic style" games in the series, it's easily the most generous with ammunition. I think you had it right when you said that the additions of RE3 feel experimental, between the 180 degree turn, the fairly generous dodge mechanic and gunpowder crafting. Only one of those made it into the rest of the series.

RE2 is *the* classic Resident Evil game for a reason though (much like how there's a reason why every other Resident Evil spinoff feels the need to revisit RE2 or 3). 4 different scenarios (albeit ones that overlap a lot), just a big, ambitious step up from the first in every way. There was also a time when I could beat either A scenario in 2 hours flat, pretty proud of that. I can't claim that for RE3, which is a little more stringent with its speedrunning requirements.

I'll be very interested in seeing what you think of Code Veronica. It's a lot longer and more backtrack-heavy than these other two games, and it also is where the story of the series starts going in a weird direction. It might still be my least favorite old-style one in the series, at least until I play through Dino Crisis 1 and pretend it's a mainline Resident Evil game (because it sort of is).

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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RE3 is a peculiar one because I feel like the balance of that game is off. I'll say right away that RE3 is one of my favorites in the series when I look back on them, and I literally finished a playthrough of it a matter of days ago. RE3's mechanics are more interesting to me, the 180 turn, no need to press a button to climb stairs, and the dodging makes it better to control than probably any of the old school games (I think if you combined the controls and movement of 3 with the camera and polygonal environments of CV that'd be pretty much perfect as far as the old games go), but the problem when I go back to play RE3 is that it's easy as hell even on "Hard."

The only explanation I can think of is that the game is designed with the expectation that players out there are going to be fighting every single Nemesis encounter. It's the only thing that makes any sense, because if you dodge most of those encounters and make even pretty basic use of ammo-crafting, you're going to have a fuckload of ammo by the end. The game offloads so many healing items on you as well that it's absurd. Nemesis presents a problem with how you balance that game because you have to compensate for the people who suck shit and think they have to fight Nemesis all the time, so if there wasn't a constant supply of ammo and items, those people would think "I'M OUT OF AMMO NOW THIS GAME SUCKS" and give up. There's also a lot more zombies in areas that encourage you to weave through them, carefully learning the layouts of each room. But of course, once again, the lowest common denominator is just going to kill everything.

I enjoy the randomization of item and enemy placement, I enjoy being encouraged to dodge, I enjoy the weird choose-your-own-adventure prompts that pop up from time to time. I just really appreciate so much of the unexpected ideas in RE3 that make it feel different. You're right that it's not as much of an evolution. 2 is beloved. But I feel like I have to say this so here I go: RE2 has one good environment and that's the police station. Yes, it's amazing. Maybe even better than the Spencer Mansion. But the police station is like a third of that game. The sewers suck, the underground lab sucks. The way the alternate playthrough stuff works in 2 is phenomenal and I love a lot about that game, but when I'm going back to replay those games, RE2 just doesn't hold as much interest in me anymore. The controls are stiffer in comparison and everything after the police station sort of bores me, honestly.

I'm the sort of person that really likes odd systems and experimentation within a formula, and seeing more of Raccoon City was cool to me at the time, so I fully understand and accept that I'm the outlier. But still. RE3 is underrated and I'm in its corner 4eva.

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Yummylee

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Edited By Yummylee

Great to hear you're still enjoying your time with this series! It's also interesting that you played through RE2 & RE3 simultaneously, because it does help highlight the difference in pacing and tone. RE2 is most certainly a continuation of the original, albeit one that's a little more Hollywood (Leon kissing Ada in Scenario B T_T), but RE3 at times feels like it's a precursor to the way the series will eventually morph into. I still really like RE3 all the same, and it has one of my favourite opening CG cutscenes in the series. All of the weird new mechanics they introduced--choice making, enemy/event randomisation, destructible objects, the 180 degree turn--and not to mention Operation Mad Jackal! Still one of my favourite minigames in the whole series; absolutely loved that shit. 'specially since it allowed me to play as Nicholai and I thought he was the coolest BMF around when I was a kid -- primarily because I think he may very well have been my first introduction to a Russian accent. Also that he was seemingly able to stay alive all that time with his little SIGPRO pistol is mighty impressive! It's just a shame Veronica has none of that... because it was developed simultaneously it seems to lack much of the innovations RE3 brought besides the 180 degree turn. You even have to once again automatically go up/down stairs with the press of a button; that and there's no longer any zombie heads exploding for some reason. Besides getting to dual-wield a couple of weapons there's nothing mechanically interesting about Veronica. That, and its art style sucks.

Also fun fact: the director of RE3 is the guy that was in charge of directing RE4 back during the Hookman Build stage, before Mikami took over because the Hookman thing wasn't quite panning out unfortunately.

And Brian Irons, man... A genuinely great voice performance in a very melodramatic sense! Still, that they actually heavily implied that he's a fucking rapist, among other things of course, feels surprisingly ballsy for a game of its time. Such implications are only seen in a file, but still. Also funnily enough the same guy who voices Irons voices Robert Kendo, the gun owner at the beginning of the game.

@marokai: The problem with the classic RE games is that they're all pretty easy when you go back to them. Even with the originals they would clearly pepper around more ammo than you'd ever need, so when you knew where to look and where to go you're golden for most of the game. Their static nature has always been the one critical flaw in replaying the games, and it's why I always wish RE2 & RE3 could have gotten their own 'item remix' mode that Resident Evil saw with its Director's Cut. Though I'm to believe RE2 did get such a mode with its N64 release... but it's the N64 version so...

Also son I am disappoint, the lab in RE2 is awesome! Has such great music! The sewers, sure, I can see that, but the RE2 lab is probably my favourite iteration on the classic 'end game Umbrella lab'. Also the RPD's a great location, but the Spencer mansion still reigns supreme. No other environment in this series has allowed such freedom to explore and generally take things at your own space; RE2 in relation is a little more linear with its key item collecting. RE3 fortunately opened things up a little as it allowed you to collect the parts to fix the tram in different orders, which could result in different encounters with Carlos & Nicholai even!

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@yummylee: My favorite end-game Umbrella lab of all the old games is probably the Antarctica base writ large, but if I compliment CV too much I'm afraid @arbitrarywater might hurt me, so I'll stay hush-hush.

You're right that some of the older games are pretty easy if you go back to them, but I still think CV, REmake, and RE0 are fairly challenging (though the latter's challenge comes 50% from the tedium of managing items and the two characters). RE3 is just ridiculous. Especially if you're playing on Easy; the game just vomits ammo all over you all the time.

I have always wanted to play the N64 version of RE2. Never tracked a copy down though.

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Yummylee

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Edited By Yummylee

@marokai said:

@yummylee: My favorite end-game Umbrella lab of all the old games is probably the Antarctica base writ large, but if I compliment CV too much I'm afraid @arbitrarywater might hurt me, so I'll stay hush-hush.

You're right that some of the older games are pretty easy if you go back to them, but I still think CV, REmake, and RE0 are fairly challenging (though the latter's challenge comes 50% from the tedium of managing items and the two characters). RE3 is just ridiculous. Especially if you're playing on Easy; the game just vomits ammo all over you all the time.

Yes, RE3's Easy mode is riiiidiculous! They quite literally just jump like 90% of the weaponry on your lap from the get go... RE2's easy mode simply gave you a little starting handgun ammunition. That's undoubtedly because as you said they were probably worried that Nemesis would prove too much for people, the sort of people that just want to kill everything, so they put this in there so you're always packing enough anti-Nemesis juice.

And believe me, as someone who recently recompleted Veronica, it's not that tough. That Tyrant boss on the cargo plane is still a twat, but by the end of the game I had more ammo than I knew what to do with. The remake and RE0 at least have multiple difficulties to account for, with their Hard mode actually being designed as a hard mode unlike RE3's which was basically the game's 'Normal' equivalent. Still, I completed the remake via its HD release again while only dying once, as Chris, which was against Neptune. It was on Normal mode as that was unfortunately the highest option, but overall because of how simple the combat is in these games, the difficulty hinges on your supplies. So, when you know where to look they all unfortunately start to become trivial.

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ArbitraryWater

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@marokai said:

@yummylee: My favorite end-game Umbrella lab of all the old games is probably the Antarctica base writ large, but if I compliment CV too much I'm afraid @arbitrarywater might hurt me, so I'll stay hush-hush.

You're right that some of the older games are pretty easy if you go back to them, but I still think CV, REmake, and RE0 are fairly challenging (though the latter's challenge comes 50% from the tedium of managing items and the two characters). RE3 is just ridiculous. Especially if you're playing on Easy; the game just vomits ammo all over you all the time.

I have always wanted to play the N64 version of RE2. Never tracked a copy down though.

Hey now, I don't hate Code Veronica. For my part, I think the only truly bad main-series Resident Evil game is 6, and even then I sorta liked 6 because of how bombastic and "go for broke" it was in parts (also I hate myself). @yummylee and I have stated our issues with it pretty openly, but it's fine. It's fine. That Antarctic base? It's pretty good! Drags on for a little too long, like the rest of CV, but sure, it's an alright endgame area. I still love the original Umbrella lab from REmake myself. Think the Dead Factory in RE3 is pretty weak, like the Water Treatment Plant from RE0 just fine and would like the lab in RE2 more if it didn't shove a bunch of optional items at the player when they have 30 minutes left of the game.

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Yummylee

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@marokai said:

@yummylee: My favorite end-game Umbrella lab of all the old games is probably the Antarctica base writ large, but if I compliment CV too much I'm afraid @arbitrarywater might hurt me, so I'll stay hush-hush.

You're right that some of the older games are pretty easy if you go back to them, but I still think CV, REmake, and RE0 are fairly challenging (though the latter's challenge comes 50% from the tedium of managing items and the two characters). RE3 is just ridiculous. Especially if you're playing on Easy; the game just vomits ammo all over you all the time.

I have always wanted to play the N64 version of RE2. Never tracked a copy down though.

Hey now, I don't hate Code Veronica. For my part, I think the only truly bad main-series Resident Evil game is 6, and even then I sorta liked 6 because of how bombastic and "go for broke" it was in parts (also I hate myself). @yummylee and I have stated our issues with it pretty openly, but it's fine. It's fine. That Antarctic base? It's pretty good! Drags on for a little too long, like the rest of CV, but sure, it's an alright endgame area. I still love the original Umbrella lab from REmake myself. Think the Dead Factory in RE3 is pretty weak, like the Water Treatment Plant from RE0 just fine and would like the lab in RE2 more if it didn't shove a bunch of optional items at the player when they have 30 minutes left of the game.

Not counting RE6 it's the worst mainline RE release, but even then I'd say it's mostly just mediocre rather than being outright terrible or anything.

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DarkeyeHails

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Thanks for these, it's a great little trip down memory lane. Resident Evil 2 was my first Resident Evil. I had spent untold amount of time yearning to play the first while reading some kind of possibly-official Playstation Magazine walkthrough and thinking it is the most amazing game I had ever heard about. I absolutely loved this game, played it a whole bunch in a way I don't tend to these days now that I am able to acquire new games as I like. I never made it through RE3 or Code Veronica. I tried but kinda gave up. I did buy RE2 on PSN, I've been meaning to go back to it. Good to hear it still holds up.

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Quarters

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Edited By Quarters

@nightriff: This is going to seem random, but the main one is probably Resident Evil Outbreak. It's essentially vignettes of the whole incident from beginning to end. It actually shows the initial outbreak first hand. However, the story isn't super strong in it. Just kind of is what it is. And though many HATE it, Operation Raccoon City actually has some pretty interesting stuff in it. The first level is the assault on Birkin's lab with Hunk to get the G Virus, and it goes from there. Between the Umbrella characters and the Spec Ops characters you play as, you actually get to see a lot of the early stuff. However, the story in that wraps up a little after RE2, before the city goes to crap.

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nightriff

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Edited By nightriff

@quarters: Maybe when this is all done and if I haven't worn myself completely dry of RE, I might give Operation Raccoon City a shot. Thanks for the info!

@darkeyehails:Give RE2 a shot, it's still incredibly playable and approachable, something that has truly surprised me about these earlier games so far. I played all the PS1 RE games on the Vita and it was perfect (after I turned off the back touchpad).

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Nice blog, duder. I'm enjoying reading these! Glad to see someone still enjoying these games after all these years.

RE2 was my first PS1 game, and my first experience with 3D gaming period. I couldn't wrap my 8 year-old mind around it back then. Since then I've played it probably a couple dozen times and I still love it today. I get that it's considered THE classic game in the franchise, and in many ways I would agree. RE3, though, really is underrated as hell and I'll never get why that game wasn't talked about at least as much as 2. Maybe it's just because I've actually played 2 way, WAY more than 3 and that 3 never lost the luster for me, but 3 is one of the most thrilling experiences I've had in gaming.

Aside from Nemesis being one of the ultimate villains in all of games, I loved exploring Raccoon City from the outside, I loved the puzzles, the randomized elements, the choices, the new mechanics (although I somehow never managed to master that dodge maneuver). All of that stuff was awesome. In fact, the only place I would say that game really falters is the boss fights, like you said. You fight that worm thing (which you also fight in Code Veronica, just a heads-up), and then there are like 2 and a half mandatory Nemesis fights, and that's it. Although I think the fight against him in the waste disposal room in the Dead Factory is super intense. They kind of dropped the ball in that area, but other than that, I fucking love the game. It has such a great creepy and chaotic atmosphere that really reflects the outbreak of the zombie apocalypse very well. I do also love RE2's slower, more isolated feeling. I fucking love how eerie and sterile the lab in the end of that game felt. The naked experiment zombies were a nice touch, too, haha.

I think you'll enjoy CVX. It's definitely a good game, but it's also a very textbook RE game and lacks a memorable atmosphere and "feel" that the earlier games have. It sort of feels a little bland at points. It doesn't really try that much new mechanically, either. The in-engine environments and tracking camera shots are maybe the biggest changes, which says a lot about that game. It's reasonably lengthy and has a weird story, even by RE standards. It's also a bit more challenging than previous games and it's easier to run dry on ammo if you're not careful in the first half or so. Some of boss fights are a real pain in the ass, especially the last one from what I remember. One last thing to keep in mind: Steve Burnside is one of the fucking WORST sidekick characters in anything, ever. Mostly thanks to his voice actor. He's like the Jar Jar Binks of the RE franchise, except he's, quite mercifully, only in one entry.

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nightriff

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@onekillwonder_: In the time of beating 3, I've gone back and forth constantly whether I liked or disliked it, enjoyed it or not, play it again in the future or it was a one and done. It certainly is underrated and unique in how it approached things. The randomizing mechanics is incredibly clever, but there were several puzzles I couldn't get and resorted to the internet...only to find that yes it is randomized and that didn't help (I did like the water purifying puzzle at the end, I really enjoyed thinking through that one). And I really loved the lab at the end of 2, I know some of said how they didn't like it or found it interesting, I was the opposite and thought it was incredibly engaging and to worked very well as a final area. The Dead Factory is ho hum for me as it really is only like 20 minutes long (give or take).

And thanks for the heads up on the worm returning in CVX...kinda kills motivation a little.

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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@yummylee: You're right that by the end of CV, a smart player will have way more than enough ammo, but I think at least the first half of CV is actually pretty tight and well balanced with its difficulty; certainly one of the most balanced of the old ones anyway. It takes a decent chunk of time for you to even get to the first item box. (If you don't count the metal detector box, which you shouldn't, anyway.)

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KillEm_Dafoe

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@nightriff: I would say that RE3 is worth replaying, at least on Easy Mode which gives you like half of the game's weaponry at the outset, just to see the slightly different ways that events can play out. It doesn't go quite as deep as the alternate scenarios of RE2, but it's still fairly interesting if you liked it enough the first time through. Also, if you knock Nemesis out at all of the optional encounters, he gives you fun stuff, namely some handgun upgrades and a sawed-off lever-action shotgun that Jill flips around like Arnold in T2. It's kinda cool.

For what it's worth, the worm parts (yes, there are two of them just like in 3) aren't as annoying in CV. The worst parts about the graveyard fight in 3 were the camera angles and layout of the area.

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nightriff

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@onekillwonder_: Nemesis only gives you stuff on "Hard Mode" and I actually hated the first worm fight more in 3, spent a good 20 to 30 minutes dying and have to retry the fight and I ended up wasting a bunch of health items as I couldn't get the angle and the timing down to avoid him all together. The graveyard had a lot of space to move and I felt more comfortable with that fight.

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Yummylee

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@nightriff: You don't actually have to fight the worm during the first boss encounter. So long as you can turn on the switches to lower the ladder then you can go on your mosey way! Something to keep in mind should you decide to play through it again. The worm in CVX as @onekillwonder_ mentioned isn't much of a problem, either. You'll encounter it twice but the first time is optional (and there's also no reward for choosing to kill it I should add, beyond it no longer hanging in the area), but it's extremely easy to avoid. The second time's a mandatory boss fight but still isn't all that difficult.

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nightriff

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@yummylee: I was trying to do that, but the timing of running and getting to the ladder before he would pop out and hit me was a long and excruciating process for me

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hassun

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Edited By hassun

I don't consider RE3 to be a downgrade compared to RE2 at all. I like it at least as much as I like 2. Nemesis is also the best enemy of the entire series.

P.S. Before you play RE4, you should play Dino Crisis 2.

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ThunderSlash

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sparky_buzzsaw

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Resident Evil 2 was the last and only one in the series I got heavily into. I'm not sure what happened, but at some point, most horror games became too realistic for me to play and I left the genre behind, save for occasional forays into stuff like Dead Island or Dying Light.

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nightriff

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@sparky_buzzsaw: that's kind of what happened to me after the REmake, sure I played 4 and 5 but those are hardly horror games. Since playing Silent Hill 2 a few years back for the first time I've kind of wanted to return to the genre that I really liked when I was a kid. Hope this venture is a kickstart into more classic horror games.

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redking56

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To preface my comment, I'm someone who was kinda in the same boat as you, a few years ago I played 2 and 3 for the first time even though I'm a big survival horror fan.I played the REmake and 4 on GC when they came out and loved them and only got round to getting 2 and 3 on PSN in a sale. I distressingly remember almost buying those GC ports back in the day.

For me 3 felt like a downgrade on 2. They made the same game but with very little in the way of any story to get you interested beside "Look here's Jill". In 2 it involves uncovering the whole conspiracy of Umbrella, in 3 it's you just trying to escape and there's a military doublecross twist which has no bearing on your character and thus couldn't care less about and gets resolved amazingly anti-climatically with you not even having any agency.

The locations feel uninteresting in 3, with 2 it felt like you were discovering new places and learning, 3 you retrace the police station and then it's like here's a clock tower and a park, they give nothing to the story like locations did in 2 and it just feels uninteresting as you learn nothing from exploring them, they're just places that add nothing but space to fill up gametime.

Something missing from 3 was some grandeur, 2 felt bigger than life. There are moments from 2 that stand out in my head more than moments in 3. 3's big sell is Nemesis, Nemesis spawns into areas you're in when the cameras not pointing at the entrance and that is cool and scary. But to me he still feels like a poor man's Mr. X/Birkin.

Mr. X was a much more dramatic presence, he was just as, if not more, unstoppable and felt like it because he slowly moved and never changed, which in itself is disturbing because he looks human but is not, unlike Nemesis who instantly stands in the Horror villain role. Xesy footsteps are vastly more unnerving and hugely unexpected (since it happens on your second play through) than anything Nemesis does. The image of Mr. X rising from a pit of lava seemingly unhurt is one of the most dramatic and awesome moments in RE that make him feel powerful and unstoppable and really puts the fear in you.

Birkin too is bigger in dramatic presence and more interesting as he evolves and feels completely out of control and again; unstoppable.

Nemesis by comparison just doesn't feel that way at all to me, he gets more and more pathetic looking as the game goes on to the point where the final encounter is more sad than anything as you watch him squirm around barely even being a threat to you. Compare this to the boss battles with Mr. X or Birkin and there is huge disparity in the feelings of dread and hopelessness. I can't understand why people think of Nemesis over Mr. X or Birkin apart from that Nemesis was heavily marketed on the front cover of everything.

Then to top it all off there is only one controllable character(s) throughout the game and not having anything to reply and discover more aspect of the (already one note) story, I just can't see any conceivable way that the two games are comparable in quality. 3 might have better controls but that's debatable in even being useful to the design of the game's balance.

In closing 3 is an enjoyable game but it's really just an old school survival game that people seem to have fond wishful memories especially in how RE has gone in recent years. I'd say RE3 is to RE2 what RE5 is to RE4, pale imitations that tried to eat from the same trough but found it empty already and tried to work with scraps.

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nightriff

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@redking56: I pretty much agree with everyting you say, and I DID buy those GC ports in hopes to eventually play these games....that led to me buying the PSN version to eventually play these games (that was 2009 when I bought them). Regardless I'm glad I'm finally getting around to playing these games.I personally believe nemesis to be the better out of him and Mr. X (Birkin is in another category and doesn't serve the same purpose nor game mechanic that those two do). Nemesis was this force that I could never over come (except in the battles that I had to) where Mr. X I was able to stop him several times without taking too much damage. I really do like both and would rather face X over Nemesis, but I think you aren't giving Nemesis enough credit. And I agree that 3 isn't nearly as good as 2, but it tries to do some very interesting things and its really obvious to see how 3 is the stepping stone from 2 to 4 (in more of a focus on action and gun play). I didn't hate my time with 3, more that it over stayed its welcome and the fact that Nemesis was the only boss encounter besides the worm really hurt it in my eyes in the long run. 2 doesn't even have that many bosses (especially in the Claire A scenario) but when it does its someone/something different.

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icicle7x3

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What's cool about RE3 that you might not pick up on 1 playthrough, is that there are random elements to the game. Certain events will change, some items will change, Nemesis will show up at different locations, characters will show up at different locations, etc. On top of that, certain events will change depending on the order in which you do them. Also those event choices will make an impact on the game as well, not all of them, but most will.

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nightriff

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@icicle7x3: I did see that some times after deaths especially in the clock tower and also with the puzzles, a few of them I was looking for help online (music box specifically, didn't understand what they wanted me to do) and the best they could do were tips as it was randomized. Its a cool thing that they did that but I don't think it added to the game all that much. I think randomizing the times Nemesis attacks would be more terrifying where those all seemed predetermined.

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pr1mus

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Edited By pr1mus

There's some interesting things that never occurred to me before regarding the more action oriented and faster gameplay as well as the story in RE3 when played like this in story order for the first time.

The pacing and amount of action when going from RE1 to RE3 directly might have felt a lot more jarring then when played in release order. The action and pacing was increased in RE2 a bit and continues to increase in RE3 but when played in release order it all felt pretty natural given the gradual changes over 3 games.

Likewise, the story missing some needed exposition at the beginning of RE3 wasn't so much an issue when played in release order since all that exposition was in RE2.

This is a good read. I haven't read the previous entries yet but i will do that. I had the same idea a couple years ago but it all fell through after playing only Resident Evil 0. I wrote a blog about it too (shameless plug). I'm interested in seeing how our thoughts on it compare!

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nightriff

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@pr1mus: Well if you would like to read my previous work, they are all linked within my original post, and you can read 2 (TWO!) blogs about RE0 as I try to defend the game in some ways! RE3's story was always "escape" and eventually that did hurt it a little, but most RE games have very little to no story for at least the first half then the actual story starts. RE2 story didn't start until Chief Irons (in Claire A) and sure there was a little Ada stuff early on but it was after the RPD that the story really started to occur (in Leon B).

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redking56

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Edited By redking56

@nightriff: I agree "mechanically" Nemesis was harder to beat but the way he's presented is at odds with that compared to Mr. X who is given way more presence and dramatic entries which made all his appearances bigger and more memorable apart from some of the CGI cutscenes that Nemesis gets, but I would argue that that is a detriment to Nemesis's presence that his big actions take place in cutscenes rather than "in-engine" like all of Mr. X