Should game companies be held accountable for known issues with their products?

I asked this question after reading the response from Street Fighter X Tekken developer regarding the online sound and network issues below:

The new netcode implemented in Street Fighter X Tekken allows for up to 4 players to have a smooth online experience, however depending on the connection stability between players, things like “spontaneous match rollback,” “voice effects cutting out,” and “sound effects cutting out” also are occurring. This netcode is written in a completely different way than the Street Fighter IV series netcode, and that is why these problems are occurring.

As Street Fighter X Tekken is a tag battle game, the amount of data that is exchanged between player connections is a lot more than the normal 1v1 battles of the Street Fighter IV series. In order to compensate for this and provide a smooth gameplay experience, the netcode was written the way it currently is. Unfortunately, this has also brought on the sound problems we are having now.

In order to completely fix all the sound issues, the smoothness of the online gameplay has to be traded off, so it is a very complicated and difficult balancing act. We would like everyone to know that the development team is currently looking at various ways to improve the sound issues.

We will have additional updates on this and other things soon, so please stay tuned. Thank you all for your understanding.

While I’m sure Capcom knew this was a problem during testing they felt it was acceptable to release the product instead of delaying the release to fix the problem the right way.

What if fans never complained? Would the problem have been addressed? Why are they now working on an already known issue?

How would you feel if you purchased a new car and the dealer forgot to mention that the door jams or the radio/cd player is glitchy from time to time but still charged your full price? Or a DVD that was known to have issues during playback by the company but they failed to fix it and still charged you full price?

While a car cost much more than a video game, I still believe the same standards should be set to deliver a quality product to a fan base that is spending quality money. Statements such as:

In order to compensate for this and provide a smooth gameplay experience, the netcode was written the way it currently is. Unfortunately, this has also brought on the sound problems we are having now. In order to completely fix all the sound issues, the smoothness of the online game play has to be traded off, so it is a very complicated and difficult balancing act.

Having now? Really? So they never saw this before eh? Personally, I find that statement to be bull. Don’t tell me about your programming woes trying to making sure all the code play along well with each other, fix the problem or don’t release the product. At no time did they say, we apologize for this or we’re going to make up for our mistake. If I paid full price for a game that was to be fully functional and it doesn’t meet that I need to be compensated for my purchase, especially if the problem is so easily found and affecting the majority of the users.

Movie theaters give our free passes to another showing; dealerships offer free items to make up for their mistake, even restaurants give out free meals or discounts on meals/bills. Microsoft lived up to their mistake with the RROD and offered extended yearly warranties. Why? So the customer will know how sorry they are and to keep you coming back.

Games cost roughly $60 dollars and development in the millions of dollars if people spend their money on a product they should be able to fully experience the best way possible. My recommendation of compensation would be either discounted or free DLC character packs or clothing packs for those who purchased the game day one until the problem is fixed. Maybe they bundle these packs in with the network fix, I don’t know. Either way, something should be done to make right what was knowingly done wrong. My hope is that this doesn’t come off as a rant or venting but their responses sparked this post, enough is enough.

I think that lately capcom has done more on making some strange choices with the games they've done recently. If a game doesn't quite cut it regardless of who made it, the sales of the game & DLC will prove to the company how well it's doing. Hopefully they will come to their senses quick though if anything in a fighting game should be sacrificed for smoother gameplay, I'm fine with losing game audio (half the time you hear so much of the audio so often that it's better to focus on what's going on with the volume down).

@fox01313: I do agree that smoother gameplay is better than sound playing correctly. However, it does take way from the full gaming experience. There's nothing like timing a combo or super attack on an opponent, and you want to hear the sound of the attack right as your land it. Also sound plays a part in the gameplay as some users when your hear an attack released or charged prepare to counter attack or block. If I don't hear it how will I know.

The difference between cars and games is that cars don't have millions of lines of code, any one of which might be causing several different issues. Certainly cars have their issues, but remember that there is a set way to make a car. Different manufacturers have different little niggles that they use, but at the end of the day a car's innards have to hold to a standard. Games, and programs in particular, don't. Yes, there's some things that they all share but there are far more variables in one modern game than in any car.

Just pointing out an issue with your comparison.

Now that is settled, on to the question. Should game companies be held accountable for releasing a game with issues? Well, they programmed it so it's their fault that it isn't perfect. Right? Well, first things first: No game is perfect. No piece of software has been created without bugs and issues. Even something like Windows, which pretty much has an army of troubleshooters, has its bugs and issues. Developers should do the best that they can to deliver a product that works on as many levels as possible, but you must understand the sheer complexity that can come from creating just one large program, especially one with as many different variables as a video game.

At the end of the day, if a product that works well is delivered to me, then I don't expect any compensation. Capcom's business with Street Fighter X Tekken and the sound issues therein are something that I wouldn't expect much compensation from, maybe an avatar item or an alternate costume for a character, something of that sort. However, if the netcode was just plain broken, that's when I think that some compensation should be delivered.

@PhilESkyline: Game developers are "held accountable" by their player base already. If you don't like the product don't purchase it. If you're unhappy with the way that they've treated a title, don't rush out to pre-order and purchase the next one. If you're mad one doesn't work right on release re-sell it as used. Netcode for Cacom fighters (and really fighting games in general) since SF4 has been garbage at launch every single time. At best they're serviceable anyhow due to the precision needed to play the game, if you can do a combo with two single frame links with more than about 25% success online you're way way ahead of the curve. It's an issue that will be eventually fixed, so that's about all you can ask for.

At best if they give you some "free DLC" it will be shit that should be free already anyhow, if you'd feel better if they gave you some alternate costumes for free I can only say I feel really bad for you. I think you have an insanely skewed sense of entitlement. You're not owed anything, they're working on a fix for the netcode issues which could take some time, deal with it.

Unless if you're Blizzard or Valve, it is probably really, really hard to keep to yr release schedule and iron out all the bugs in yr product, especially if you are doing something ambitious, as opposed to pumping out yet another generic fps.

Shouldn't all companies be held accountable?

You should take a class in project management. There is almost never a perfect product free of flaws. Capcom's decision, as you described it, is the same one I would make. "Looking at ways to improve..." does not guarantee that they will ever actually find a way. They know that. The alternative would be delaying the game until...they wouldn't actually know how long.

As for "holding them accountable," I've heard this talk before and it's sickeningly entitled. It's amazing that people feel entitled to AAA games made to their own specs. Developers don't even get to the finish line with all of their own ideas intact, much less those of millions of fans. And the fans never even agree with each other. Pleasing everyone is totally impossible.

@PhilESkyline said:

Should game companies be held accountable for known issues with their products?

Yes they should.

While I’m sure Capcom knew this was a problem during testing they felt it was acceptable to release the product instead of delaying the release to fix the problem the right way.

How do you know? Any Proof?

What if fans never complained? Would the problem have been addressed? Why are they now working on an already known issue?

If fans never complained then it wouldn't be a problem, it would be a mechanic. And no it wouldnt have been adressed. Again i read the statement you provide almost 7 times, no where dose it say they knew this issue existed before.

How would you feel if you purchased a new car and the dealer forgot to mention that the door jams or the radio/cd player is glitchy from time to time but still charged your full price? Or a DVD that was known to have issues during playback by the company but they failed to fix it and still charged you full price?

That cant happen because there are laws protecting the sale of vehicles.

If its that big of a deal go to small claims court and get your money back. but I dont think you want your money back, I think you want compensation.

Well the answer to that question is, mandatory compensation is never going to happen.

@Napalm said:

Shouldn't all companies be held accountable?

No, that's what reviews are for. No one is forcing you to by the product, therefor what accountability is needed? It's a retail product released to consumers, not something like a drug that would actually affect someone if it didn't work correctly.

@bananaz: Funny you should say that I am in a MS Project Management program. I'm aware of deadlines and how it will affect resoures, stakeholders and all that. I also know you have to be ready for the backlash you will receive once you release a product that has known issues. But the response from the team was almost an "Oh we never knew that was going to happen" type of reply. Not a "we apologize for this happening, this has been a continuous problem for our team and we are continuing to work on this problem for future releases" I think fans are too addicted to the brand that it doesn't matter what they put out people will buy it because it's something new.

@Dagbiker: I find it impossible...yes I used an absolute, impossible that they played this game online in test and everything from sound and gameplay was good only to release it to the general public and the code suddenly break. Sound files for kicks don't register in time or at all. Impossible...The proof is in how quickly and effortless the bug appeared as well as the vast majority of users hit with it. Not a select few but mostly all users. That speaks volumes.

While I’m sure Capcom knew this was a problem during testing they felt it was acceptable to release the product instead of delaying the release to fix the problem the right way.

How do you know? Any Proof?

@PhilESkyline: Are you asking for another user to share his proof of some theory while in the same exact post dismissing the fact that you have none of your own to support your own equally baseless theory? really?

@Lotan: So what you're really saying is Capcom doesn't care about the consumer of their products? Apple (iPhone 4) and Microsoft (360) both apologized, offered compensation, and found solutions for issues with their devices. It took tons of coverage from media outlets until they finally owned up and did something about it. I guess the price of games aren't high enough compared to a iPhone or a 360.

Held accountable for what exactly?

It's not like they misrepresented the product or misled people about it in any way. Reviewers mentioned the issue openly even before the game was out and I don't own the game, but I'd be suprised if the back of the box said "The sound totally does not fail to line up with the action when playing online!"

I mean, seriously.

@PhilESkyline said:

How would you feel if you purchased a new car and the dealer forgot to mention that the door jams or the radio/cd player is glitchy from time to time but still charged your full price? Or a DVD that was known to have issues during playback by the company but they failed to fix it and still charged you full price?

While a car cost much more than a video game, I still believe the same standards should be set to deliver a quality product to a fan base that is spending quality money.

2011 and 2012 Ford Vehicles with SYNC MyTouch interfaces are experiencing problems ranging from the power staying on long after the car is shut off, to the stereo being stuck on, to GPS being wacky as hell, to unresponsive screens. A fix has only just now been sent out (some people have had their cars for six months) and I've only heard of a few people getting "one free car payment" out of it, with most people being compensated nothing at all.

Every time there is a new iPhone / iPad, in a rush to build as many units as possible, some of the glue used on LCD screens is sent out before drying, and a not-insignificant portion of the iDevices suffer from screen edge glowing. Apple continues to do this every. damn. time.

This is not a gaming-specific problem.

@Renahzor: No I'm asking how can the issue not be known when it's "staring you right in the face" and would have shown on any testers write up. This wasn't a bug that took hours/day of continuous game play to discover, it happens on your first run through online. Let's not be blind about this...seriously. No company will openly admit they knew there was a bug in their product and still shipped it, that's suicide financially and brand wise.

it's called patching

@Shun_Akiyama: According to the response it seems more like a lost cause as this point. I'm guessing the netcode just need to be rebuilt and that's something not worth investing in at the moment.

I don't think you quite understand. It's not a "spend more time, fix problem" thing it's a "would you rather the game play well or sound good?"

Did ya read the stuff they said, or did you just write is all off as bullshit because you're feeling whiny? I'd rather they go for better gameplay than better sound.

@NoelVeiga: I didn't say the product was misrepresented. It's not like it does do what they claim it does, it just doesn't do it in an acceptable format. The iPhone 4 still worked but it had the antenna issue that Apple corrected once they got too much heat for it. The same thing goes for Microsoft over the RROD. They said it was fine until more and more started to die at an alarming rate, media outlets did their own test and saw it die, and old developers claimed they knew about the issue before release. The first 360 worked just not for long or as expected. If I buy a game for online play I'm expecting things like sound to work.

@MordeaniisChaos: I understood the statement, I just think it's crap. This isn't their first fighting game. Marvel vs. Capcom has more characters tagging in and out and it's no problem. It is fixable just not right now. So I pay full price for something that's kinda done.

P.S. You should change that avatar I'm at work lol.

@PhilESkyline:

That is in-fact exactly what I am saying. Capcom is not a person, it does not "have feelings". Capcom, like almost every cooperation only cares about one thing, money. There are people that sit in a room somewhere and decide "hey this thing that is broken, do we care?" and the answer is "no" they don't really. There is absolutely zero way that a tester did not find this in the game and report it, but what do you expect the management to do? Delay the game and thus get less money? Hurt the profit margin and then get fired because the game shipped late?

If it were me in that position I would have shipped the game and said "we'll fix it in a patch, but only if they complain loud enough".

Money is the deciding factor on 99% of cooperate decisions, and Capcom likes money.

@MordeaniisChaos said:

I don't think you quite understand. It's not a "spend more time, fix problem" thing it's a "would you rather the game play well or sound good?"

Did ya read the stuff they said, or did you just write is all off as bullshit because you're feeling whiny? I'd rather they go for better gameplay than better sound.

Or maybe equal amounts of both? It's called QA testing and they obviously didn't do enough of it.

The problem is that they push the game out to meet the release date. I would rather wait a month or two and have a game that is awesome, then have the company push the game out early and get shit.

It happens all the time (like pretty much everything Bethesda has ever done) and it's bullshit. There is no reason why the gameplay/audio shouldn't be 100%.

I can understand cutting corners on budget games, but a fully priced retail product of this caliber should be a close to flawless as possible. There is no excuse.

Like others have said, game companies are held accountable. If their product, or portions of it, offend their user base, then that user base won't buy the next product. Success or failure based on the consumer response to their choices keeps them accountable.

yes, i think they should be held responsible for problems like that. they need to release new patches for games instead of ignoring the problems.

@PhilESkyline said:

@NoelVeiga: I didn't say the product was misrepresented. It's not like it does do what they claim it does, it just doesn't do it in an acceptable format. The iPhone 4 still worked but it had the antenna issue that Apple corrected once they got too much heat for it. The same thing goes for Microsoft over the RROD. They said it was fine until more and more started to die at an alarming rate, media outlets did their own test and saw it die, and old developers claimed they knew about the issue before release. The first 360 worked just not for long or as expected. If I buy a game for online play I'm expecting things like sound to work.

Those are not the same thing.

See, a piece of hardware operating on a warranty model and outright failing is one thing. That requires a refund or a repair and is a legitimate consumer complaint. The iPhone having a design flaw is a quality issue. The company just chose to fix it in later iterations and help users get a workaround for it. They didn't have to, but they chose to do it. Good for them.

This is a game having poor netcode. A lot of games have poor netcode. If you think that's a catastrophic flaw for a product you intended to use primarily online, that's all well and good. What you should have done is do your homework, read the reviews and learn that the issue existed before you spent sixty bucks on it. Now you've spent them and you have to live with the product you purchased. Caveat emptor indeed.

What I do not see is how you then, after failing to put due diligence in researching your purchase (and I'm talking reading any one review here, nothing esoteric) go online to whine about the issue and call for the developer to be "held accountable". You had every tool to know that this happened. You could have waited for a patch or refused to buy the game outright. You didn't. How can they be held accountable for you choosing to freely pay them money for a product you knew had a flaw?

@PhilESkyline said:

@Dagbiker: I find it impossible...yes I used an absolute, impossible that they played this game online in test and everything from sound and gameplay was good only to release it to the general public and the code suddenly break. Sound files for kicks don't register in time or at all. Impossible...The proof is in how quickly and effortless the bug appeared as well as the vast majority of users hit with it. Not a select few but mostly all users. That speaks volumes.

While I’m sure Capcom knew this was a problem during testing they felt it was acceptable to release the product instead of delaying the release to fix the problem the right way.

How do you know? Any Proof?

Your first mistake is assuming they Tested it at all. Your second mistake is assuming, if they did test it, they tested it under the same conditions every one else is using. e.g. over the internet, and not over LAN.

From a the very underrated movie Mimic.

But they all died in the lab. Yes, Susan. But you let them out... into the world. The world's a much bigger lab.

@NoelVeiga: So instead of expecting all expects of a AAA title game to work correctly I'm to wait for a review before purchasing? That sounds a bit silly. A downloadable game created by an up and coming developer, yes, but not a Capcom game that has been the leader in fight games for many years. Unacceptable...no pass. If you know the sauce is bad stop using it plain and simple.

@Dagbiker: Okay what are you talking about here? If they tested under the same conditions that we are using it they would have noticed the problems. Not fixing a problem that was most likely discovered during testing and yet releasing it to masses to find out is pure ignorance. This is Capcom we're talking about not some small start-up company. They have the resources for proper development, period.

@PhilESkyline said:

@NoelVeiga: So instead of expecting all expects of a AAA title game to work correctly I'm to wait for a review before purchasing? That sounds a bit silly. A downloadable game created by an up and coming developer, yes, but not a Capcom game that has been the leader in fight games for many years. Unacceptable...no pass. If you know the sauce is bad stop using it plain and simple.

No, you misunderstand. I don't care if you read reviews before you purchase. I mean, it's utterly stupid not to, but it's also entirely up to you. That's exclusively your problem, not mine or Capcom's. That's my point. The reviews are out there, the game is out there, you are out there. What you do with those resources is up to you.

And yeah, sure, if you know the sauce is bad stop using it. Again, my point exactly. You had all the information available to know what the sauce was and you decided to ignore it and put the sauce in your mouth. You can complain all you want, but there's nobody to blame but yourself. Next time, don't buy the damn game. Problem solved.

But I won't lie, your circular logic does make my brain drip down my noise a bit. From the claim that expecting you to be aware of what you're paying for is somehow excessively onerous on you to the notion that Capcom is accountable for your failure to inform yourself *because they're too good*. As in, if they were a bad developer you'd have to pay attention, but since they're actually good at their jobs, you should be able to just buy shit from them and it's their obligation to make sure you always like it or that it has no flaws whatsoever. The whole train of thought is baffling.

@NoelVeiga: First, I did not have this information before purchase let's get that straight. Sound detection for hits wasn't even a thought in my mind. Second, my main issue was the poor response to a problem I'm pretty sure they knew about before release. They pride themselves of listening to the community and delivering solid games for the best gaming experience but yet they push out poor code and basically say hey you either have smooth gameplay with terrible noticeable lagging sound or poor gameplay with great accurate sound. That's just not right no matter how you try to cover for them and put the blame on others, the makers didn't do a good job in that area. Those parts of a game from a company as large and experienced as Capcom should not happen at all, end of story.

@believer258 said:

niggles

kind of blown away that some people here think designing and engineering a car is easier than coding a fucking game,

@tourgen: You go to school to learn and master your craft. Easy or not that's the job you chose to take. No excuses. Do the job and do it right.

@PhilESkyline said:

@NoelVeiga: First, I did not have this information before purchase let's get that straight. Sound detection for hits wasn't even a thought in my mind. Second, my main issue was the poor response to a problem I'm pretty sure they knew about before release. They pride themselves of listening to the community and delivering solid games for the best gaming experience but yet they push out poor code and basically say hey you either have smooth gameplay with terrible noticeable lagging sound or poor gameplay with great accurate sound. That's just not right no matter how you try to cover for them and put the blame on others, the makers didn't do a good job in that area. Those parts of a game from a company as large and experienced as Capcom should not happen at all, end of story.

But that's not the discussion here. That's what you don't get. It's not a question of whether or not "they did a good job". They didn't, that's not the issue. The netcode is fast, but it mangles the audio for the sake of removing lag when having four player inputs. That makes the game unpleasant to play. So that's worse than actually getting it right and managing to both remove lag and get the sound to work correctly.

That's not what's being discussed.

What's being discussed is you asking for them to be "held accountable" and whining about it online.

See, that the game had a flaw (and it IS a flaw) was never in question. All game reviewers pointed that out, Capcom admitted to it, it's plain to see. But that's the product they put out. The judgement call they made was to have fast netcode but bad sound. YOUR call was whether or not to put up with it and buy the game. You chose to buy the game. Now deal with it.

Nobody is saying that the game is any good here, or that the flaw doesn't exist. What I'm saying is that if you bought the game and are now disappointed about how bad the sound online is that only makes you an unresponsible customer that failed to pay attention to what he was buying. It doesn't make Capcom liars or hacks, and it sure as fuck doesn't mean that they owe you an apology or reparations. They made the game they made and you bought it, you have nobody to blame but yourself if you bought a badly made game.

@NoelVeiga: I find it funny when someone has a problem with a product and voices it, it's called whining and should just be accepted. It's not a matter of "you should have done you homework first" but why is this considered acceptable in the day and age we live in now. It's not a lack of technology but I lack of effort/not enough time, it's a piss poor job.

Many already believe this occurred because it was rushed out the door. I'm not concerned with how or why it's happening, we know that, the question should be asked, "Why was it released to us like this?" I believe that's a valid question to ask someone selling you a product.

@PhilESkyline: The budgets for a lot of larger games actually comprise more of marketing than actual money spent on the game itself, so if the actual game has issues but people are heavily responding to the marketing then it doesn't matter if you release the game now or wait to fix things, in fact it would hurt your marketing (the majority of your money) to wait to release it etc. Not the ccase with every single game obviously, but even great games have even larger budgets for marketing (insert all good AAA games). If you're a publisher do you risk spending nothing on marketing and having a great game not sell at all or do you market the shit out of whatever game can be marketed well and just release it when it's convenient to the marketing campaign, the patch whatever issues come up that could harm your next game's marketing.

First of all you should stay away from Bethesda games.

Second, they release it because people hate delays and deal with minor problems later. As long as it works at that point they feel alright sending it out into the world. In that, people want it, they have it. Sure there's netcode issues, but as they said they're working on it and comparing it to past netcode for examples as to why not making excuses. Otherwise they'd just say they're working on it.

I came into this thread looking at what we could learn from company mistakes and I found a complaint in the guise of a question. I don't think it's bad to have complaints, but it's on an established issue and you're making it bigger than it is. There's other things you could have said on this.

@DJJoeJoe: @Xpgamer7: Thanks for the feedback.

@PhilESkyline: Regardless of your actual thoughts on the matter, that's an extremely nice way to take what was a kinda harsh comment on my side. I believe in it, but yeah, it's a good trait to just thank people.

Absolutely

@PhilESkyline said:

@NoelVeiga: I find it funny when someone has a problem with a product and voices it, it's called whining and should just be accepted. It's not a matter of "you should have done you homework first" but why is this considered acceptable in the day and age we live in now. It's not a lack of technology but I lack of effort/not enough time, it's a piss poor job.

Many already believe this occurred because it was rushed out the door. I'm not concerned with how or why it's happening, we know that, the question should be asked, "Why was it released to us like this?" I believe that's a valid question to ask someone selling you a product.

Oh, goddamnit, how hard of a concept is this?

You are part of the problem here. I'm amazed at you not seeing this. You purchased the game. You gave them money for this product that they made that has a pretty serious flaw in it.

And now you're whining.

Because it *is* whining. The question isn't "why was it released like this"? That's an easy one: because either they ran out of time to fix it or somebody decided that in the tradeoff between sound and speed, speed was more important. That's an easy one.

The question, o hero of the consumer rights, is why you chose to support the product as it is despite disagreeing with that judgement call. I didn't. I haven't bought it. I'll wait for a patch, or hope the Vita version doesn't have this problem. I'm also no complaining about it. You, however, are already a done deal. Except for the prospect of making you buy DLC for the game, you've already generated as much money for Capcom as you would have generated if this issue wasn't present.

That makes you and your whining irrelevant. Or worse, proof that the issue is not that bad, because people still bought the game. You can type complaints online until your fingers fall off. For all intents and purposes, you are a tick in the "yes" box on whether it was the right call to have the bug in the game instead of delaying the whole thing to fix it.

Ok, so that's not true. Capcom probably doesn't want people complaining loudly about their games, and try their best to avoid angry customers. It is true that you failed to vote with your wallet about whether this is relevant or not, though. It is also true that you are guilty of being a dumb consumer who doesn't know what he's purchasing. And it's undeniable that your reaction to buying something you didn't really want is extremely annoying for the rest of us. I mean, there are ways for people to call out a bug that are helpful but firm and aimed to encourage the developer to release a patch but, man, yours is SO not it.

@NoelVeiga: ok