@phuturist : You completely missed the point where I said "up until now, we would have never been able to publish it because Western developers keep telling themselves that games like this would never make money despite years of research and data to the contrary."
The ability to self-publish (and crowd-sourcing venues such as Kickstarter and Steam Greenlight) are the reasons why we're finally getting a more diverse offering in terms of video games.
You're right I didn't argue against your point. Because you are right. My point is though, that what applies to Aurion also applies to The Witcher 3. The Witcher 3 is only possible because they could publish it themselves. You can't truly believe a big, risk averse western publisher that's scared of bad press and rep would greenlight the only big all white game of the last ten years, right? Just like they wouldn't publish Aurion, as you said.
I maintain that arguments about diversity apply to both games the same way.
Man finds his world changing, and his place in it made obsolete. Check. Seeking personal fulfilment, he heads off in search of a long-lost love. Check. Despite trying to leave his past behind, circumstances and third parties conspire to draw him back into the life he tries to leave behind. Check. Victorian-era political intrigue whirls on in the background while monster-slayer must slay (or negotiate with) monsters. Check. Also, old ladies are usually witches. Check. The Big Bad is somewhat sympathetic in that its actions, while evil, are done to preserve its own way of life. Check.
If you strip away the well-written characters and story, you come away with a very familiar, very generic-otherwise story that will Western audiences say, "Oh, I know what to do in this situation; I've done it before in other games".
Now that's just an arbitrary check list. I can do that too, look:
MC is nobility and born for great things. Check. Last heir of family. Check. Betrayed, ambushed, exiled stripped of power. Check. His brother in law is evil. Check. You rebuilt your power by forming connections to other forces by helping them out. Check. You need to save the kingdom. Check. The game questions wether the noble class deserves it's power or is needed at all. Check.
If you strip away the well-written characters and story, you come away with a very familiar, very generic-otherwise story that will Western audiences say, "Oh, I know what to do in this situation; I've done it before in other games".
There you go, I can do this too, and no actual argument was made by doing this.
Austin's article was less about the Witcher 3 specifically and more about the state of AAA-games industry, which, like Hollywood, has been stagnating in a white-centric morass for decades now, with very few exceptions.
Aurion is not JUST "we made a story about our culture". It's "we made a story about our culture, and until now we would have never been able to publish it because Western developers keep telling themselves that games like this would never make money despite years of research and data to the contrary". The problem with AAA games like Witcher 3 is not that it's a bad game or bad story or overtly racist, it's that the story of Witcher 3 has been told countless times before, which the stories of some other non-Western, non-white cultures have never been told before because publishers slam the doors shut in the faces of the developers who want to tell those stories.
Witcher 3 and Aurion are financed, created and published by the studio making the game with no additional publisher having any say. You argument about publishers slamming the door shut is entirely invalid.
It actually is though? Like, read your first comment, dude. You literally describe yourself as taunting Austin. The entire pretense of your accusation is disingenuous because you're baiting someone into defending a position they never took, assuming that the circumstances are equal across the board and framing any perception of difference as prejudice or bias. If you really can't see how this is actually a really bad way to start a conversation, then I legitimately feel sorry for the commenters who plan to continue it with you.
Sometimes you write a weak comment first and then edit it. Like you just did, only you deleted the first one. Also I meant at least I don't insult or harrass people, while I may not bring the happy good times with my comments, I obey the rules, I believe. Not that I'm proud of this or it's an achievement for me, but still it's not terrible. That was all.
I don't even fully understand your third, huge phrase there. Those sure are some nifty words, but I don't see how they apply to my post. But yes, I believe that the circumstances are equal across the board and I believe any perception of difference to be prejudice or bias, but that's not what I stated to be truthfact, I asked Austin to explain how I'm maybe wrong in that assumption, which is a whole lot less aggressive than what you seem imply I did.
Fair enough, my apologies if my post seemed snide, I usually try to stray away from personal commenting. Lately I've just seen way too many comments similiar to the other one (twitter, UPF live chat, whatnot...) that I had a moment of weakness and had to reply.
Yeah I bet this comes up a lot, with that game. No harm done. I had a moment of weakness as well and had to make my comment less obnoxious.
A lot of people want to talk about these things and a lot of people want a lot of people to not talk about these things and then here we are, all pissed off. You have a good one though!
No it absolutely is terrible because you'll find those arguments in pretty much every discussion about race and they always get shut down immediately. Here I'll even explain to you why if it isn't clear. Your position only works if you assume that everything is just fine with the representation of minorities when it comes to voice acting, which is highly unlikely if you look at representation of minorities in media in general (guess what, in videogames too). If you want to change that then you have to make an effort, which will certainly not happen if you just keep defending the status quo whenever a discussion arises without even listening to what the people directing the criticism have to say.
I'll even give you two quotes from two black voice actors. Dave Fennoy, who voiced Lee in the Walking Dead mentioned that he would prefer it if black actors were able to voice black characters "so that black actors are able to work". Phil LaMarr who voiced Green Lantern in Injustice said "“From an artistic perspective I would love it if race didn't have to be a factor, but from a "paying-my-rent" perspective, I'm glad it does,” and “If I have to compete for a Black male role with every Black male voice actor AND every white male voice actor, my chance of getting a job decreases immensely,” (found in this article). In an ideal world you would be right, it shouldn't matter who voices which character but as it stands that's not the reality we live in.
Like I stated in my previous post, I don't think there was necessarily anything wrong with the decision in this case because the character wasn't done when they casted her but it's not an issue that should generally be dismissed so easily. If you can't see that, that would indeed be sad.
Hey man, just wanted to say that while I disagree with and could argue against most of what you just said, I thank you for your good and civil reply to my annoyed and slightly demeaning post. If you want to engage this topic further I'm up for it but you might not want to, so here is just a short thank you and have a nice day!
The criticism of witcher 3 was more along the entire genre's lack of diversity, also Witcher is a AAA big budget game this is an indy game for 20 bux made by a small team in Africa.
That said, i also feel the Witcher criticism was a bit unfair given the cultural context of Poland and Polish mythology. But trying to compare that to this just shows why diversity in gaming is a such a big deal. Would a big budget game like the Witcher 3 but with the cast of Aurion ever get made? Probably not.
Alright let me address this.
It's fine to say you are not interested in a game because it's similar to others in it's genre, it's wrong to say a game would be better if it was not like others in it's genre. That's just my opinion though. I think a work should be able to be judged on it's own in a vacuum. But I get that some people see it different.
Wether a game is big or small doesn't matter. To make the game more diverse they simply had to change the base color value of a few characters, it would have been very easy, the indie argument doesn't apply here imho.
And Witcher 3 is the only whites only AAA fantasy game made in the last 5 or so years. Every other game includes diversity. Some are very proud and vocal about this, like the direct competitor DA:I. So Witcher 3 is the exception, not the rule, and I won't complain about the AAA African game that's sure to come out in the next 20 years either.
While those few comments (the other one at least) are pretty terrible, I kinda enjoy(?) the idea that someone's so worked up over something that they'll take the first possible chance to write a comment like that. Video games, man.
I'm going to assume I'm not "the other one" [that's terrible], and yes, some people such as the staff of this website Austin Walker are that worked up over something that they'll take the first possible to chance to write a blog like that. Video games, man.
Is it bad to be worked up over this? Maybe it should bother me less, but any "you can't have or do this, but others can" rhetoric does really work me up. Hey at least I'm being civil and while my frustration is clearly obvious if you go through my post history, it's not manifested in actual shitty behavior.
Not a lot of racial diversity in this game, even though it's a fanatsy setting, just like Witcher 3, eh Austin?
Edit: Taunting tone of my comment aside, I really think this game should get the same critique as Witcher 3 in that regard, which for me is "A culture made their own game about themselves and neighbors, cool!". I'm interested in hearing your explanation for why they are not the same, if you think that way.
Another edit: Watching this, this game even shares the "cool world, questionable combat" aspect with w3.
Oh and by the way all of you who are going with the "but we're all the same in the end" and "shouldn't they pick the best person?" spiel are making a terrible argument.
It's more of an argument than your quoted paragraph here at least. Also it's not terrible, you are wrong. If you can't see that anymore...I don't know, that would be sad.
I'm indecisive on whether or not I should get this game. Naughty Dog hired a white woman to play a black woman in the game and I just think that is a terrible thing to do. Great quick look, overall. But man, I'm still sad they did that.
And Kratos, a Greek, is being played by an African American and I wouldn't want anyone else. Also Nadine is speaking in a fake South African accent and South Africans, white and black, will survive. And you know, an accent should be more important for a voice actor than the skin color.
@amyggen: If in an interview, you say that you want your game as diverse as possible, and that the original games had lacking female characters, also ones that fall into tropes, you are basically calling it sexist. But I see your point, I should be exact with my quotes.
And yes, bullshit like the remove trans character mod are not helping at all. But you do understand how frustrating that is for someone that is super positive on diversity but super negative on simply bad writing? I mean do I need to post examples? Imho it's horrific. And I loathe developers that deflect with "only the transphobic ones don't like it!" and website running with it, because it makes it impossible for people like me to be heard. It sucks. And the developers writing "people hate our game because a single line about transgender" on their forums for better reviews and directly to fantastic outlets like Jezebel and Feminist Frequency is scummy deflection. Nice job weaponizing gender issues to get better press. Great.
Haven't listened to the Podcast yet, I hope they aknowledge the position people like me have.
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