@thefncrow: Im going to say this so everyone can understand whats happening in these "crazy times" a little bit better.
News outlets stay alive based on click throughs and ad revenue. The absolute best most fail proof way to get clicks is to mention sexism, racism, politics, and murder. So naturally, in a competitive capitalist society, outlets are going to utilize this to their advantage.
With the decline in print media and the rise of ad blocking, outlets have had to resort to the less legitimate forms of journalism, clickbait, to make up for losses.
Clickbait has always been around. Its poor journalism mixed with sensationalism. Spin, hyperbole, omitting facts and picking attractive soundbites.
In addition, the internet is a place of anonymity. 100 something characters of text is a very poor form of communication. Social media creates like-minded bubbles. What we are seeing in America, and the world, is a result of social conditions, not everyone being horrible people.
People are good. People only do what they believe to be right. America is fine.
The media sensationalizes. The media is a business. If you take to heart everything you see in the news or the forums or the comments sections, you are fooling yourself.
These are not "crazy times". We are all fine. What's wrong with society is people who claim there is something wrong with society while failing to realize they are the ones throwing rocks through storefronts, yelling into car windows, and crying out for something to change.
We don't have to be living in 'crazy times' to be living in a society built upon sexism and racism, I hope you can understand this.
Can I take your lack of reply as admitting you were being complicit in being a sexist? Asking for a friend.
Calling a group of men "sexist entitled man babies" isn't being sexist, I have already explained my view on this.
Then why are they being sexist entitled man babies? Because they think Price is toxic and are calling her out for it? I don't get it. Again, it's not just men doing it, but of course... in a male dominated space (both player and production side) male voices are going to be the majority.
I don't debate things with people acting from bad faith in both the reality of what has happened in many situations and the equivocat of things that are not equal.
@jamjyo:Except he didn't tell her how to do her job better. And she attacked him on his gender. And the problem isn't that developers have to be open to feedback. She could have, for instance, not read his reply if she didn't want feedback. Or perhaps she could have responded kindly, like a normal person. It would have taken her just as much time. If I heard correctly she used her job to get a verified Twitter account and talked about her job on Twitter. As such the lines between personal and professional have very much blurred indeed.
@boonsong: You would have been fired too for using sexist statements, just like she did.
@rvancetal: Waypoint is, like Polygon and Kotaku, historically one-sided when it comes to these controversies. Not exactly a great place to look for discussion. In fact they ban people for bringing up the 'wrong' arguments. And are all too happy to let racist or sexist solutions to problems on their forums stand IF they are anti-men or anti-white people. Which is something I personally am against because unlike them I am actually anti-racist and anti-sexist, which in my mind encompasses all gender and race. So including all forms of 'reverse racism' and 'reverse sexism' too. I want a fairer world in which people are not excluded or picked on for having a certain skin color, or gender and that is exactly what Price was doing: attacking Deroir for being a man talking to a woman, as if he needed to have a woman to speak for him before she could/would take him seriously. All supported by the rather arrogant assumption that Deroir is not a more experienced writer than Price is.
I also find it tasteless that there is now a lot of talk around Price being fired as if it was about her being a woman (to the extend of them stating that women at ArenaNet should now worry about their position) but very little about Fries being fired. The mentioning of which would of course hurt their one-sided propaganda.
You are either naive to how power influences and plays with the things you are talking about or are posting in bad faith and it is very hard to tell the difference if I am being honest.
Have fun been a mouthpiece and stooge for some real terrible people if it is former.
Well why don't you explain it to me? Because I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Are you accusing me of... representing other people? I am not. I am sure they could come here themselves if they want to be heard. But I don't see how that would be an accusation. Why don't you reason with me instead?
I think we both want the same thing in the end.
This backlash against her being fired makes me feel we're measuring with two sizes. When Damore got fired from Google for sending an internal memo (not even public) about what he said were factual things about women and why they would be less successful in the field of engineering (I don't know that they are factual), it felt like the media was pretty OK with him being fired for that. Then when people got fired subsequently from Google for saying bad things about white men - which again in my opinion is just as bad - it was a problem. Gizmondo even wrote: "Google’s practice of formally reprimanding—and in at least one case, firing—employees for comments the company deemed discriminatory toward white men suggests that Google made an effort to moderate speech by its liberal employees as well as its conservative ones."
Well that's not true. If they are reprimanding people from being sexist to who-ever, that's leftist. I'm leftist myself. Both cases are more conservative than liberal in the sense that they restrict the ability of a person to express him/herself. Or you could argue both are more liberal in the sense that they are less traditionalist. In no way did they flip-flop between political stances there. In both cases they were privy to condone sexism. You see? That is the concern I have with this backlash. It's like we are supposed to allow people to be sexist one way but not the other and I disagree with that.
Sexism exists because of the power dynamics created from Men having control over things for so long, it is impossible for it to exist in the other direction, see also racism. To look at these things empty without power is to not look at them at all. The idea that these things can work in both directions is an idea formed and spawned from very terrible people on the right who want to obfuscate the power they hold in society already.
You can't be on the left and believe that bullshit.
@jamjyo:Except he didn't tell her how to do her job better. And she attacked him on his gender. And the problem isn't that developers have to be open to feedback. She could have, for instance, not read his reply if she didn't want feedback. Or perhaps she could have responded kindly, like a normal person. It would have taken her just as much time. If I heard correctly she used her job to get a verified Twitter account and talked about her job on Twitter. As such the lines between personal and professional have very much blurred indeed.
@boonsong: You would have been fired too for using sexist statements, just like she did.
@rvancetal: Waypoint is, like Polygon and Kotaku, historically one-sided when it comes to these controversies. Not exactly a great place to look for discussion. In fact they ban people for bringing up the 'wrong' arguments. And are all too happy to let racist or sexist solutions to problems on their forums stand IF they are anti-men or anti-white people. Which is something I personally am against because unlike them I am actually anti-racist and anti-sexist, which in my mind encompasses all gender and race. So including all forms of 'reverse racism' and 'reverse sexism' too. I want a fairer world in which people are not excluded or picked on for having a certain skin color, or gender and that is exactly what Price was doing: attacking Deroir for being a man talking to a woman, as if he needed to have a woman to speak for him before she could/would take him seriously. All supported by the rather arrogant assumption that Deroir is not a more experienced writer than Price is.
I also find it tasteless that there is now a lot of talk around Price being fired as if it was about her being a woman (to the extend of them stating that women at ArenaNet should now worry about their position) but very little about Fries being fired. The mentioning of which would of course hurt their one-sided propaganda.
You are either naive to how power influences and plays with the things you are talking about or are posting in bad faith and it is very hard to tell the difference if I am being honest.
Have fun been a mouthpiece and stooge for some real terrible people if it is former.
"the next rando asshat", "Since we've got a lot of hurt manfeels today [...] Don't expect me to pretend to like you here." - how else would you describe it? You can say she had a reason to justify what she did, and that the ArenaNet response was disproportionate, but attacking customers is what she did. Taking the corporate line would be saying that ArenaNet were right to do what they did
Except that the only people who have framed it as an attack have been the President of AreaNet and the mob that formed, the person involved sure doesn't see it that way. So yes seeing that way is taking the company line on the events even if not agreeing with their outcome.
Also I don't know about anyone else but I read that line in relation to my favorite quote from Dune personally. "My son displays a general garment and you claim it's cut to your fit?" And not as an attack on anyone.
Something else lost in a lot of this discussion is the youtuber in question didn't see this like the community did and apologized for what he did. It was the mob who them spun it and whistled the interaction to an out of control point.
A developer is not a PR person and she was on her personal twitter account. This is why unionization is needed, to stop companies from abuses like these.
If you're talking about your work, and attacking customers, it doesn't really matter where you do it. If you're talking about your work in a public space, the company are going to have a say.
We don't know her disciplinary history, so I'm going to refrain from saying if she should have been fired. If it was a one-off event, maybe her being fired was excessive (though I can see it being construed as gross misconduct). If she has been warned about it before, maybe it was entirely justified.
Did anyone read what the fan was posting further than the post she quote tweeted? It was a lot of basic stuff that her thread had already touched on prior to him chiming in.
People should listen to the Waypoint episode that is much more focused about this.
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